Flexen Article On Boxnation: Update with streaming numbers.

From boxing news online.

MY fellow boxing fans, the day of judgement is almost upon us. In just two days, anyone wanting to watch the BoxNation channel will have to sign up to a six-month contract mandating they pay £10 each month. When the BoxNation concept was first outlined, I was highly sceptical regarding its potential audience being sufficiently large as to make the venture profitable. Since then my personal relationship with the broadcaster has altered and I must declare an interest. I carry out some (paid) research work for the channel in my limited spare time, but far from transforming me into a praise-spewing ‘convert’, the danger of losing this new income stream has made me even more fearful for the future of the endeavour.

One positive aspect of working in close proximity to this business is the resultant realisation that they have the appropriate people in key positions. CEO Simon Green, to be featured in Boxing News this Thursday, combines visionary ambition with gritty realism. Producer Jim Bentley is a boxing man, with a real love of the sport plus the broadcasting knowledge to complement his affection.

My worries about the channel’s future were not related, in the main, to the quality of their output. On that score, and also on quantity, it has delivered, the only caveat being the impossible to foresee front-loading of their content. Ideally, the biggest and best fights (Bernard Hopkins-Chad Dawson, Nathan Cleverly-Tony Bellew and, from a crowd-pleasing perspective, the superb Liam Walsh-Paul Appleby season-opener) would have been spread throughout the channel’s ‘free’ period, with at least one taking place in the two weeks leading up to the paywall’s imposition. Unfortunately for BoxNation, as Boxing Monthly editor Glyn Leach recently pointed out, the more boxing they show, the more the quality level will vary. With belts increasingly tight and tough financial decisions to be made, boxing fans will unfortunately for the new TV player pass judgement on BoxNation’s value with duds like Rob Norton-Leon Williams and Ovill McKenzie-Jeff Evans fresh in the mind.

On the flip-side, quantity is a factor. It may not outstrip quality but one of BoxNation’s key beacons of hope is that fans willingly purchase individual bills on rival Primetime for £15, five pounds more than they charge per month for six-eight shows. Even if only one of those six-eight cards has a top name appearing on it, their deal will appear comparatively attractive, as a customer can justify the chance to watch that elite fighter at a £5 saving and classifying the extra five-seven events as ‘free’ extras.

Building the paywall this week, the glow from the huge spotlight trained on Miguel Cotto-Antonio Margarito just about visible, through the cracks, behind it, is a smart move. If fans want to (legally) view one of the year’s most anticipated fights, they must sign up to Box Nation for six months. This may seem to represent sophisticated blackmail, but for the broadcaster to continue to deliver contests of this magnitude it needs guaranteed income, rendering a month-by-month contract entirely impractical. Every penny that has been spent on their coverage thus far, as in most new companies, has been sourced from investor capital. That had to stop at some point.

Of course agreeing to a six-month tenure is a risk; subscribers have no guarantee that there will be a showdown of the Cotto-Margarito calibre every month or even that the quantity will remain high. That said, BoxNation is a business with a long-term strategy. It does not plan to cut and run after six months – the investors would not make initial their stakes back in that time – so it is in their own interests to encourage customers to renew their subscriptions. Unlike Sky, it does not have the luxury of offering other popular sports in the same package so will rely on boxing fans to keep the project going; for that to work, they will need to show good fights regularly and great fights occasionally.

My main doubt pertaining to BoxNation’s prosperity remains whether the hardcore boxing audience – because I do not perceive it as a channel for the casual fan – is large enough to sustain the concept. At the press conference to announce its inception, it was stated that BoxNation would need 100,000 subscribers to break even, a figure that was almost immediately revised to the worryingly vague “less than that”. Now the combined subscribers to Sky and Virgin – the latter will finally be able to access the channel this week though crucially have missed the free action, which in effect advertised the product before it became chargeable – are around 15 million. Attracting say, 70,000 (or 4.6 per cent) out of that huge market, especially given Primetime often get close to or occasionally (notably for Amir Khan-Paul McCloskey) surpass that figure for a single (£15) event, seems, at first glance, highly achievable. But many boxing devotees are already stretched to their financial limits by Sky or Virgin, plus maybe Premier Sports and Primetime. Also it’s not revealing any trade secrets to note that the combined monthly sales of Boxing News AND Boxing Monthly, a key indicator of hardcore support, do not approach that number, although buying four BNs and one BM costs more than £10 of course (and are arguably well worth it!).

So the key question this week regarding BoxNation could actually be construed as a referendum on the sport’s popularity as a whole. In this age of austerity and with the Noble Art finding itself increasingly marginalised, how many fans are devoted enough to pay for a new provider and is that number sufficient to make BoxNation not just survive but thrive? I don’t have the answer. You do. Until next time...

Scott have posted on a number of threads my concerns/ issues with Boxnation but have never expressed them clearer than I did the other day so will copy and paste that over onto this thread.

Cribb as one of those who will not be subscribing I will answer, firstly I like other sports than boxing, enjoy cricket, football and darts amongst others so ditching sky is not a particularly viable option.

Secondly I don't agree with the principle of the channel, realise what everyone is saying about we get to see more US stuff etc and a dedicated channel for the sport should be a boon but personally I would like the sport to grow and flourish and if it has a hope of doing this like all sports it needs to attract new fans, how we acheive this with most of the action being on an obscure subscription only channel is beyond me.

I don't mind golf but would not consider myself a fan, will watch the majors and ryder cup but not much else, however what chance would there be of me making the transition from casual watcher of the majors to full blown fan who will attend events or heaven forbid participate if the sport was buried on a channel I had to pay for, because as a casual fan I would never subscribe in the first place.

It won't take off but good luck to it. Boxing needs personalities that transcend the sport.

I'm not sure it can get the numbers. Sky get 100k for Mayweather and Pacquiao fights, or primetime Saturday Fight Night's. Serious boxing fans seem to be debating it, and I think they need to be definite yes's.

Margarito-Cotto was only watched by 14k on Setanta.

As my post alludes to Scott even if it gets the numbers do not think it is healthy for the sport long term as it basically takes the sport totally away from the casual fans, who will not subscribe. How this can be interpreted as anything but a bad thing for the sport in this country is something that is beyond me.

rowley wrote:As my post alludes to Scott even if it gets the numbers do not think it is healthy for the sport long term as it basically takes the sport totally away from the casual fans, who will not subscribe. How this can be interpreted as anything but a bad thing for the sport in this country is something that is beyond me.

Casual fans don't watch fights unless they are on terrestrial TV which doesn't seem likely whether this succeeds or not.

Plenty of casual sports fans though have Sky Sports, when a fight is big enough and gets the hype I have plenty of friends who watch them. Their ability to do this has been greatly reduced with the introduction of this channel.

Depends what you mean by plenty:

22/01/2011 Jamie McDonnell-Stephane Jamoye - 124,000 (SS1 #9) Frank Maloney
29/01/2011 Prizefighter - Light Heavyweights - 117,000 (SS1 #9) Matchroom
05/02/2011 Jason Booth-Jamie Arthur - Did not make Top 10 (10# SKY SPORTS NEWS AT SEVEN 92,000)
12/02/2011 Watson-Crolla - Did not make Top 10 (10# LIVE MILLENNIUM MAGIC SUPER LEAGUE 140,000)
19/02/2011 Gavin-Lomax - Did not make Top 10 (10# Gillette Soccer Special 134,000)
26/02/2011 Foster-Fegatilli - Did not make Top 10 (10# GILLETTE SOCCER SPECIAL 180,000)
05/03/2011 Gary Sykes-Carl Johanneson - Did not make Top 10 (10# LIVE SUPER LEAGUE 144,000)
12/03/2011 Ricky Burns-Joseph Laryea - Did not make Top 10 (10# LIVE SUPER LEAGUE 140,000)
19/03/2011 Liam Walsh-Jon Kays & Vitali Klitschko-Odliander Solis - 168,000 (SS1 #8 ) Frank ******/K2
23/03/2011 Prizefighter The Super Middleweights - Did not make Top 10 (10# Goals on Sunday 186,000)
26/03/2011 Denton Vassell-Bethuel Ushona - 56,000 (SS2 #7) Hatton Promotions
02/04/2011 John Murray-Karim El Ouazghari - Did not make Top 10 (10# LIVE SUPER LEAGUE 179,000)
09/04/2011 Stuart Hall-John Donnelly - 46,000 (SS3 #6) Frank Maloney
16/04/2011 Ringside - 61,000 (SS2 # 8 )
30/04/2011 Darren Barker-Domenico Spada - Did not make Top 10 (10# LIVE SUPER LEAGUE 155,000)
07/05/2011 International Prizefighters Heavyweights - 170,000 (SS1 #9)
08/05/2011 Manny Pacquiao-Shane Mosley Replay - 58,000 (SS2 #9)
13/05/2011 Sam Webb-Prince Arron - Did not make Top 10 (10# GOALS ON SUNDAY 168,000)
22/05/2011 Jean Pascal-Bernard Hopkins Delayed Coverage - 30,000 (SS4 # 8 ) Golden Boy/InterBox
28/05/2011 Jamie McDonnell-Nick Otieno - 83,000 (SS2 #9) Frank Maloney
04/06/2011 Gavin Rees-Andy Murray/Mikkel Kessler-Mehdi Bouadla/Carl Froch-Glen Johnson - 148,000 (SS1 #10) Matchroom
05/06/2011 Froch-Johnson replay - 57,000 (SS2 #9) and 41,000 (SS4 #5)
07/07/2011 Prizefighter The Welterweights - 111,000 (SS2 #4) Matchroom
11/06/2011 Price-Dallas - Did not make Top 10 (SS2 10# 87,000 LIVE UEFA EURO U21S-BELARUS V ICELAND)
11/06/2011 Price-Dallas replay - 38,000 (SS4 #6) Frank Maloney
18/06/2011 Murray-Blackwell - Did not make Top 10 (SS1 #10 - 152,000 LIVE ENG V SL TEST CRICKET)
19/06/2011 Alvarez-Rhodes - 50,000 (SS3 #6)
23/06/2011 Ringside - 48,000 (SS3 #4) Replay 20,000 (SS4 #7)
25/06/2011 Brook-N'Dou & Sturm-Macklin - 133,000 (SS2 #1) Matchroom
26/06/2011 Haye-Valuev - 30,000 (SS3 #9) & 18,000 (SS4 #9)
29/06/2011 Ringside - 52,000 (SS3 #4) 30/6/11 - 51,000 (SS2 #4) & 03/07/11 - 38,000 (SS2 #9)
01/07/2011 Ringside Klitschko-Haye Countdown - 107,000 (SS1 #9) & 16,000 (SS4 #9)
16/07/2011 Murray-Mitchell - 190,000 (SS1 #6) & 17/07/2011 Replay - 30,000 (SS4 #7)
05/09/2011 McDonnell-Hall - Did not make Top 10 - (SS1 #10 - 94,000 GOALS ON SUNDAY)
12/09/2011 McCloskey-Prescott & Klitschko-Adamek - 193,000 (SS2 #2)
15/09/2011 Prizefighter The Light Middleweights II - Did not make Top 10 (SS1 #10 - 89,000 GILLETTE SOCCER SPECIAL)
17/09/2011 Smith-Selby - Did not make Top 10 Live (SS1 #10 - 89,000 GILLETTE SOCCER SPECIAL) 19/09/2011 Replay - 27,000 (SS4 #10)
24/09/2011 Sykes-Buckland - 86,000 (SS2 #8 )
01/10/2011 Rees-Mathews - Did not make Top 10 Live (SS1 #10 - 115,000 THE SUNDAY SUPPLEMENT) 02/10/2011 Replays - 33,000 (SS3 #7) and 36,000 (SS4 #4)
08/10/2011 Brook-Jackiewicz - Did not make Top 10 (SS1 #10 - 147,000 LIVE WORLD GRAND PRIX DARTS)
12/10/2011 Prizefighter The Super Flyweights - 102,000 (SS1 #10)
22/10/2011 Booth-Quigg - Did not make Top 10 (SS1 10 # 88,000 LIVE EUROPEAN TOUR GOLF)
29/10/2011 Prizefighter The Featherweights - Did not make Top 10 Live (SS1 #10 - 144,000 LIVE FOUR NATIONS RUGBY LEAGUE) 30/10/2011 Replay - 37,000 (SS3 #8 )
12/11/2011 - Vassell-Colomban - 123,000 (SS2 #4)

Im not really a massive boxing fan but I did use to watch it more in the nineties and can remember guys like Eubank, Benn, Collins and of course Tyson and Lewis. I dont follow it much these days because its not shown as much. The last couple of fights I paid for were the Haye ones and to be honest I was left feeling ripped off. The fights looked staged to me and were just about two guys making some dosh and not too interested in fighting. I was reminded more of WWF than of boxing.

As Im not a boxing fan I wouldnt consider paying for a boxing channel but if it was on regular telly I might watch it a bit more if theres anyone much worth waching these days. It seems to have gone downhill quite a bit. I think the point made there that putting it on a subscription channel will struggle to attract new viewers is about right. Im not too sure how it is these days but it seems like boxing is on the way out and personally I think UFC and mixed martial arts will be the way of the future.

Have casual fans ever been interested in boxing outside super-fights and high level domestic scraps? Seems to me that boxnation will not be able to compete financially with sky for the big events, so nothing much will change other than boxing nerds will now be able to see more obscure fights if they are prepared to pay the fee.

I dont think they will get sufficient numbers to make it work, but I dont see it as a massive problem. How many boxnation fights would be picked up by skysports if it didnt exist? Seems that the problem is more sky and terrestrial turning their backs on boxing than boxnation popping up.

In one way I hope it works... Because I love seeing the action that they have already shown, in another way I hope it fails because I think it does hurt boxing, but not THAT badly, however it will be harder to get the public interested or at least watching on TV the higher level domestic dust ups that will appear on BoxNation. It's a shame because the have had some interesting bills on there and if it fails it's partially to do with boxing just not being interested by the public anymore.

I never realised you couldn't just buy a single PPV for an evening now on Box Nation!

This is rubbish, a few of my mates were going to go to a mates house who wouldn't ever subscribe to a boxing subscription but I guess that's put a stop to that!

For the money they are charging they would need to provide a high quality product.

This could be done and I personally have some ideas as to how they could make it better but feel that what I have seen so far is not good enough.

It would need to be an innovative channel improving on the coverage you get from Sky, what I have seen it seems they are getting good fights but everything else is missing.

Would love to sit down with the people that are doing this channel and give them some areas that would improve on what they are doing.

They don't really have the money to make everything look all fancy to be fair. Then again they may as well just employ the guy that makes all the Gorilla Productions videos on Youtube as he kicks even HBO's bum.

Gordy wrote:Im not really a massive boxing fan but I did use to watch it more in the nineties and can remember guys like Eubank, Benn, Collins and of course Tyson and Lewis. I dont follow it much these days because its not shown as much. The last couple of fights I paid for were the Haye ones and to be honest I was left feeling ripped off. The fights looked staged to me and were just about two guys making some dosh and not too interested in fighting. I was reminded more of WWF than of boxing.

As Im not a boxing fan I wouldnt consider paying for a boxing channel but if it was on regular telly I might watch it a bit more if theres anyone much worth waching these days. It seems to have gone downhill quite a bit. I think the point made there that putting it on a subscription channel will struggle to attract new viewers is about right. Im not too sure how it is these days but it seems like boxing is on the way out and personally I think UFC and mixed martial arts will be the way of the future.

I think boxing will lose a fair amount of potential fans to MMA over the next few years but I forsee MMA ending up with many of the same problems boxing has to deal with nowadays. Without a central governing body its open to all the same kind of issues boxing gets criticised for at the moment.

The thing with MMA or UFC is the purses are still nowhere near boxing level with top guys only earning something like $500,000 for fights I believe, by no means chicken feed but relative to what boxers are on it is pretty low, as such there is more incentive to consistenly fight the best. As Manos as alluded to, let us see what happens if the sport gets to the point where fighters are earning $20m+ and lets see if they are always willing to face the best.

The other problem for MMA is that it too is on a PPV channel - ESPN.

Faces the same issues at the moment (in this country anyway)

Another problem is that it is a load of old rubbish.

From what i can gather UFC is basically like WWF or something...? That they're contracted by an umbrella organisation that runs it's own 'stable' of fighters? That calls who's fighting who etc? And that they get paid a salary to fight under said organisation?

They're not "that" well paid compared to boxers from memory, be interesting to see what happens when a big star starts to rock the apple cart.

Union Cane wrote:Another problem is that it is a load of old rubbish.

Careful, Alex and Sean will be jumping in. They love grown men rolling around in speedos......

Can't imagine for one minute that rolling around on the floor in tight pants will ever become more popular than boxing - it'll be a sad state of affairs and highlight the poncy youth if it does!

AlexHuckerby wrote:They don't really have the money to make everything look all fancy to be fair. Then again they may as well just employ the guy that makes all the Gorilla Productions videos on Youtube as he kicks even HBO's bum.

It doesn't need to look fancy, just professional!

It isn't just about the standard of filming. They could do so much more to appeal to a wider audience and don't appear to have the best people making decisions when it comes to the product the currently offer. Maybe it is about money though, the thoughts I have had on it would obviously have some additional cost attached but only minimal.

I dont think MMA will significantly eat into the existing boxing fanbase but in my experience the younger generations seem to prefer it to boxing in increasing numbers. Especially given the well documented problems in boxing that are not (yet) as prevalent in MMA. I do feel boxing boxing is becoming increasingly marginalised and in 15 years there is a genuine risk that the younger generations growing up will be more inclined to follow MMA.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I'm 19 and am most certainly not a fan of the UFC.

the only problem with boxnation is frank warrens match making. its worth £10 a month for cotto margarito, so if they can keep delivering these type of fights fair enough. but i cant stand to watch another evening of warrens prospects having dull fights against journeymen

To be fair though Lance it could just as easily go the other way. Frank is many things but stupid is not one of them and as such he will be more than aware that if the channel is to succeed it will need to have far more matches of the intrigue of Degale Groves rather than Maccarinelli Gunn and given he will constantly need to attract new subscribers and persuade those he already has to renew their contracts he will need to deliver on a consistent basis.

to be fair Warrens fighters in the next month I think will be
John Murray - Brandon Rios
Degale - Jose Guerrero
Billy Joe Saunders - Tony Hill
Stephen Ormond - Carl Johanssen

that's actually good match ups.

Yeah I can’t see there plan to be getting people to sign up for 6 months and then not delivering/putting on cheap cards. Simply because 6 months wont make them money.

AlexHuckerby wrote:to be fair Warrens fighters in the next month I think will be
John Murray - Brandon Rios
Degale - Jose Guerrero
Billy Joe Saunders - Tony Hill
Stephen Ormond - Carl Johanssen

that's actually good match ups.

For us, not for Murray.

Poor Murray.

Alex would also add Chisora Helenius to that list, that also cannot be described as a gimme for Derrick.

rowley wrote:Alex would also add Chisora Helenius to that list, that also cannot be described as a gimme for Derrick.

Anything but, I can see Dereck struggling, I hope he shows a bit more interest than he did against Fury though.

Yeah very true forgot all about Chisora next week going up against the man mountain Helenius. Can't see him getting past him.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Yeah very true forgot all about Chisora next week going up against the man mountain Helenius. Can't see him getting past him.

So you think he will beat him?

joeyjojo618 wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:to be fair Warrens fighters in the next month I think will be
John Murray - Brandon Rios
Degale - Jose Guerrero
Billy Joe Saunders - Tony Hill
Stephen Ormond - Carl Johanssen

that's actually good match ups.

For us, not for Murray.

Poor Murray.

I just can't see anything other than Murray being beaten to a pulp... Poor Murray...

Scottrf wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Yeah very true forgot all about Chisora next week going up against the man mountain Helenius. Can't see him getting past him.

So you think he will beat him?

You dont think hes going to win on Saturday Scott?

Which he? Chisora at his best can win, anything less he can't put enough pressure on the big man. If I had to bet it would be on the Nordic Nightmare.

Does anyone know where he is weight wise Chisora, saw him briefly on Boxnation the other day and certainly looked a lot trimmer than against Fury but that ain't too hard. If he is to have a chance have to think he cannot come in anywhere near the weight he did against Fury.

Scottrf wrote:Which he? Chisora at his best can win, anything less he can't put enough pressure on the big man. If I had to bet it would be on the Nordic Nightmare.

Judging by the fact you chose to predict all of your UCPL predictions a draw, I'm not sure you have the credentials son.

rowley wrote:Does anyone know where he is weight wise Chisora, saw him briefly on Boxnation the other day and certainly looked a lot trimmer than against Fury but that ain't too hard. If he is to have a chance have to think he cannot come in anywhere near the weight he did against Fury.

http://www.boxingnews24.com/.../helenius-chisora-povetkin-boswell-this-saturday-night/

DOn't think it says as can't access it properly at work but it does say that Chisora is in better shape.

AlexHuckerby wrote:to be fair Warrens fighters in the next month I think will be
John Murray - Brandon Rios
Degale - Jose Guerrero
Billy Joe Saunders - Tony Hill
Stephen Ormond - Carl Johanssen

that's actually good match ups.

december looks great, cant deny that. november was poor though, and i just wish he would test his prospects a little more if hes going to put their fights on tv

Was I looking forward to Cotto/Margarito? Yes





Will I pay to 60 quid for the pleasure? No



Will I ever subscibe to this channel? Only if they do a monthly contract. Not bitter about it, thats just the way it is. I'm starting to feel they're not on our side already.

I'm in. We can't rely on Sky to show as many shows as Boxnation. ESPN only show their only Friday Night Fights and Premier sports are going to stick with domestic boxing once their contract to show the bantamweight tournament and the shobox stuff ends in January.

An extra £10 a month isn't ideal but well worth it imo.

not happy with the six month contract but what can you do.

What is the script with this channel regarding subscription, people were talking like you could choose which months you wanted to pay for, i seen the six month deal on the website but thought it was optional, are they tying to tie people to a six month contact?

I know they are offering 6 months for the price of 5 at the moment.

If I hear anything, I will let you know - due to speak to them today at some point.

Cheers

Must admit the thought of a 6 month contract has soured my view somewhat. Pick 'n' choose would have been a much better way.

So do you have to take a 6 month contact Fists yeah?

Not 100% sure as yet mate, just something I have heard.

Hopefully we can get that cleared up today and give people a better idea of what they'd have to sign up to.

Yeah it's definitely a 6 month contract.