Leinster v Cardiff teams

First topic message reminder :

LEINSTER:

15: Isa Nacewa
14: David Kearney
13: Eoin O'Malley
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Fionn Carr
10: Ian Madigan
9: Isaac Boss

1: Cian Healy
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Nathan White
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Steven Sykes
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Shane Jennings
8: Sean O'Brien

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Heinke van der Merwe
18: Mike Ross
19: Damian Browne
20: Leo Auva'a
21: Eoin Reddan
22: Jonathan Sexton
23: Rob Kearney

CARDIFF BLUES:

15: Chris Czekaj
14: Richard Mustoe
13: Casey Laulala
12: Gavin Evans
11: Tom James
10: Ceri Sweeney
9: Richie Rees

1: John Yapp
2: Ryan Tyrrell
3: Taufaao Filise
4: Cory Hill
5: Paul Tito CAPTAIN
6: Maama Molitika
7: Josh Navidi
8: Xavier Rush

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Marc Breeze
17: Nathan Trevett
18: Sam Hobbs
19: Macauley Cook
20: Michael Paterson
21: Lewis Jones
22: Gareth Davies
23: Dafydd Hewitt

Thanks OverlordOTW.

Is it the same wrist injury that kept him out of the RWC or is it a new one?

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:How did McFadden/EOM go in midfield?

Good without any standout moments. McFadden was very reliable with the boot as usual, which is handy for us. The standout young players for me were Madigan and D Kearney. Both excellent. And when these guys appeared on the scene first I didn't think either would amount to anything special. But they've both improved a lot in the last year and proved me wrong.

What are peoples thoughts on Ruddock's performance? I always find it harder to tell if an individual forward is having a good or bad game. He hasn't had a great season so far.

McFadden and O Malley were very good defensively. No worries there as they are given more time to gel in the PRO12 (if not the HC too) as a pairing. McFadden was also kicking well in bad conditions and against the wind. This pairing just need more time together. But, Darcy will be back for the HC Id bet. It would take a brave coach to bench him. Schmidt may have them share the duty and mix&match with the other 2. That would be a great move, imo.

Madigan was excellent. His kicking from hand was sublime. His passing also. He has a great eye for a gap and at creating them. Natural 10. Needs work on his place-kicking, hence McFaden taking that respensibility. I think Sexton will have a job keeping him out of the team by seasons-end. Which is brilliant. For club and country.

Cronin is really pushing Strauss at hooker and is a menace in the loose and a great, fleet-footed, ball-carrier. Arrows from both were great.

Jennings was masterful at the breakdown. SOB at 8 also worked. Ruddock? Not sure still. Dom Ryan needs a few games. Heaslip will be back. The backrow is so covered.

Carr is loving playing with better players around him and is a constant threat. He is here to stay. Great winger. So fast and has a sharp brain..
Dave Kearney has improved game on game and will be looking to cement his place in the HC 23. With Conway and Fitz to come back and Shaggy also, we have 5 great wingers. Competition for places is now feirce in all positions. Well done Joe Schmidt for entrusting in talented youth. It's paying huge long-term dividends. Kidney, are you watching?

Its all good. Could not be happier. Now for the Bath double-header. Must keep this focus and hone the killer-instinct, which has been our enemy in the past.

How was O'Brien at 8? I only saw the second half and didn't see much of him in general.

Looking back at the game now after being at the rds and I think all played well.

Healy was a little wrecking ball and aggressive in defence
Strauss was great from touch and defence too
White I was v impressed by, re:scrummaging and the loose
Cullen Doesn't do well in contact (offence or defence) but did well in the air and mauls
Sykes was quite impressive, really attacked rucks
Ruddock looked poor at the game looking back at it he made a lot of tackles and was on his feet challenging for ball a lot. Poor w the ball though
Jennings was good at the breakdown but didn't link as well as normal and wasn't great with the ball either
Sob was good w ball in hand and attacked the breakdown effectively.
Boss was great one of his best displays I thought
Madigan looked unreal, great vision, passing, kicking and running. Asp good defence.
Carr is becoming our first choice winger. Hungry all the time. Fast, elusive and defensively very secure
Mcf was good, solid in basic skills and defence. Good kicking never did badly in attack but didn't get many opportunities.
Eom looked ok in the 1st half but v dangerous in the 2nd. Showed more of his distibution game than previously. Great feet to make space for others
Kearney was great, good strength and jink. Good basics and finishing. Very impressed
Nacewa was good, some counters were met w excellent defence but he played well

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Looking back at the game now after being at the rds and I think all played well.

Healy was a little wrecking ball and aggressive in defence
Strauss was great from touch and defence too
White I was v impressed by, re:scrummaging and the loose
Cullen Doesn't do well in contact (offence or defence) but did well in the air and mauls
Sykes was quite impressive, really attacked rucks
Ruddock looked poor at the game looking back at it he made a lot of tackles and was on his feet challenging for ball a lot. Poor w the ball though
Jennings was good at the breakdown but didn't link as well as normal and wasn't great with the ball either
Sob was good w ball in hand and attacked the breakdown effectively.
Boss was great one of his best displays I thought
Madigan looked unreal, great vision, passing, kicking and running. Asp good defence.
Carr is becoming our first choice winger. Hungry all the time. Fast, elusive and defensively very secure
Mcf was good, solid in basic skills and defence. Good kicking never did badly in attack but didn't get many opportunities.
Eom looked ok in the 1st half but v dangerous in the 2nd. Showed more of his distibution game than previously. Great feet to make space for others
Kearney was great, good strength and jink. Good basics and finishing. Very impressed
Nacewa was good, some counters were met w excellent defence but he played well

Exactly what I think too, and that's why I think he will be best suited to 12 and creating space for the outside backs. Would love to see him paired with Spence in the future for Ireland!

Dont think Spence will make it tbh. And EOM is natural 13. Forget 12. It's like playing SOB at 7. Complete waste of talent in the wrong position.

EOM is pushing for a 6-N spot at 13. Needs two great games v Bath and in the rest of the HC pool games before the 6-N.

But, Kidney will stick Earls in there - if fit. That's a given. And a great pity. He's a winger. As is Fitz. As is Bowe.

Meant to say Rory from an earlier post actually, nacewa went in at 12 when mcf came off, which was an odd one really but worked ok. I think eom needs the space between 13 and wing so he can straighten fix the defender then step and accelerate into that space

Gibbo-
If earls is our 13 for the 6N I will cry. Imagine Darcy and earls as a partnership? Oh wait it's already happened!

Pete,
Good to see you in Dublin after the game man. Pleasure.

Yep. It will be Darcy and Earls, I fear. Unless Kidney has learned from the RWC. He needs to continue rebuilding and not just cover his match win/loss ratio % arse.

Right back at ya gib sorry had to leave so early had a game the next morning.

Yeah it won't be fun seeing those two tog out....hoping cave or O'Malley do enough

Gibson wrote:Dont think Spence will make it tbh. And EOM is natural 13. Forget 12. It's like playing SOB at 7. Complete waste of talent in the wrong position.

EOM is pushing for a 6-N spot at 13. Needs two great games v Bath and in the rest of the HC pool games before the 6-N.

But, Kidney will stick Earls in there - if fit. That's a given. And a great pity. He's a winger. As is Fitz. As is Bowe.

Why do you not think Spence will make it? I think he is a much better talent than EOM honestly, no provincial bias intended. I rate EOM highly though. Also have to disagree about SOB at 7! His counter rucking and breakdown skills are vastly underrated, I would say he is possibly the best in Ireland at that right now (including Jennings). He will run less at 7, but he is such an all around player that no matter where he plays in the backrow, he will be outstanding.

Also thanks for that clarification Pete! Thought EOM had moved inside.

I agree Rory, SOB's work at the breakdown and in the lineout is underrated but he is primarily a ball carrier. It's not that he is unsuited to being a 7 it's just doing the duties of a 7 (which he does well-not very well but well) means he isn't there to do what he does best (carry ball)

Spence hasn't really shone this season too much IMO, needs to get back on the horse me thinks, comfortably outshone by Cave.

I agree again, but as I said SOB can play all 3 backrow positions, so it really depends on what resources we have. We do not have an international 7 right now, so SOB will play there. Shows just how talented a player he is that he can do this though.

Agree with Spence also. That lies down to poor management though more than anything Spence has done wrong. Spence has been primarily selected this season at 12, a position he is not suited to at all. Cave has been poor the last few games unfortunately and I rate Spence higher. At Ulster all our young stars seem to be going backwards, and we are all looking to the coaching and selection issues.

Spence will be back to his best eventually

Still no word on a citing for Healy's punches. Inconsistency from the officials again then.

well, through the tears, all i can say is well played Leinster, and a grumpy "I told you so".

bah humbug!

gowales wrote:Still no word on a citing for Healy's punches. Inconsistency from the officials again then.

If Healy is cited then Tito should be too as he slapped Healy in the face first. My only problem with Healy throwing a punch was that he did it in front of the ref. Foolish.

leinsterbaby wrote:

gowales wrote:Still no word on a citing for Healy's punches. Inconsistency from the officials again then.

If Healy is cited then Tito should be too as he slapped Healy in the face first. My only problem with Healy throwing a punch was that he did it in front of the ref. Foolish.

A citing for a slap in the face? That would be a bit stupid wouldn't it. Healy should know better than to retaliate to something so petty. He looks like he can be wounded up quite easily.

Hopefully no one will get cited cos it could spoil future matches. Don't think any citing over this is really that deserved anyway.

I don't think Spence has been playing well, be it at 12 or not. Just not making the same impact.

Gilroy has been good though.
Although not as good as Carr who must be looking for a call up to the Irish squad

Have you seen much of Ulster this season Pete?

Gilroy hasn't been all that good this season, really unfortunate. He used to score tries for fun. He was poor over the weekend. Spence has started maybe 2 games at 13, while at 12 he is used as a crash ball centre (not a good way to use him). I honestly think he is a better and more talented player than EOM when he plays at 13.

Carr I agree is the form winger for Ireland. Very creative player.

I agree that Spence is a better 13 than EOM but right now I'd select EOM though for Ireland.

I think Gilroy has been pretty solid while not spectacular. Hopefully he can get back to being a born try scorer.

IMO Carr should get game time in the 6N.

Right now, EOM is the better option yes as Spence hasn't had enough gametime at 13 this season. Gilroy won't be back to his try scoring best with the current setup at Ulster. There is no creativity in the backs. We need Wallace or Marshall at 12, however neither are available for the HEC unfortunately.

Carr should start IMO!

For Leinster supporters: -

http://whiffofcordite.blogspot.com/2011/12/keep-your-eyes-on-ian-madigan.html

Good artcile that Rava,

Not sure if he is the best passer in Ireland I would say not but most of the stuff was spot on. His game management has come on a lot too.

You'd start Carr Rory? Who'd you leave out of Bowe, Fitz, Trimble, Fitzgerald and Earls???

Earls will be coming back from injury, he probably won't start, or start at 13 as I suspect

Fitz I honestly think is not a winger. Would love to see him as our 13 during the 6 nations. Trimble hasn't been as good recently, which is to be expected due to his mistreatment during the RWC. I'm sure his confidence took a bit of a battering.

Carr and Bowe to be our wingers. However that does depend if Carr continues to hold his place for Leinster.

Gilroy hasnt had much chance to show what he can do and he looks as though the instincts are being coached out of him. He is much more solid defensively (scarlets 2nd try aside)- i would be surprised if he saw anything more than an A call up

Carr- Havent seen much of Leinster but when i have he has been a livewire. Was it the dragons game i thought he was MOTM. Hopefully he can continue to improve. Wolfhounds??

Spence- Has been totally wrecked by playing him at 12. He was used much wider on friday and he had his best game for a good while, breaking tackles and making ground. Passing needs loads of work but his defence is better than any of the other young pretenders except maybe Cave. Wolfhounds most likely

EOM- i still think he may be to small at the top level but by God he is doing well for Leinster. I would expect to see a Spence/EOM pairing in the Wolfhounds much as it was the last time they played at ravenhill

McFadden- Kicking duties will see him get his confidence back and he will be involved in the 6N. Might be a bit part player though. Performances between now and february will be so important

Cave- Another one who could potentially break the 6N squads. Contrary to what was said above i think the only poor game he has had this season was against Glasgow. He was good at the weekend albeit he did make mistakes. Should have offloaded for a score but then consider his lovely straightening of the line and pass for Ferris' 2nd try. Genuinely dont know where he will fit in the pecking order.

Rava wrote:For Leinster supporters: -

http://whiffofcordite.blogspot.com/2011/12/keep-your-eyes-on-ian-madigan.html

Interesting that all three Ireland A OHs are called Ian. They are all decent in their own way yet none of them look like they will ever be world beaters. They are also all quite small.

leinsterbaby wrote:

Rava wrote:For Leinster supporters: -

http://whiffofcordite.blogspot.com/2011/12/keep-your-eyes-on-ian-madigan.html

Interesting that all three Ireland A OHs are called Ian. They are all decent in their own way yet none of them look like they will ever be world beaters. They are also all quite small.

So am I and the comments would fit my persona as well

Have to say thought madigan was the best player on the pitch against cardiff. The improvement in his game from last year is remarkable and id have no worries of him starting in the HC. Id expect berquist to be 3rd choie when he gets back. He may be small but he's fairly strong. He broke a couple of (dispirited) tackles for his try and was defensively sound any time ive seen him this season.

If Darcy is first choice for leinster by the 6 nations then i dont think mcfadden will start a match. Theres too many proper wingers in form atm for him to get a game there.

I'd say only one of Spence O' Malley and Cave will be in the 6 nations team. My money would be on Cave atm but if Ulster get knocked out of Europe and Leinster progress with O' Malley as their 13 he's in with a great shout.

As exciting Carr is widen he sets off on a gallop we don't have a good success rate at converting his runs into something useful. To me, he's still a work in progress but if he can continue on his upward curve he could be the new Denis Hickie. There I said it.

Already got his nickname picked out. The Electric Carr (patent pending)

I like it Mickado.

Standulstermen wrote:Gilroy hasnt had much chance to show what he can do and he looks as though the instincts are being coached out of him. He is much more solid defensively (scarlets 2nd try aside)- i would be surprised if he saw anything more than an A call up

Carr- Havent seen much of Leinster but when i have he has been a livewire. Was it the dragons game i thought he was MOTM. Hopefully he can continue to improve. Wolfhounds??

Spence- Has been totally wrecked by playing him at 12. He was used much wider on friday and he had his best game for a good while, breaking tackles and making ground. Passing needs loads of work but his defence is better than any of the other young pretenders except maybe Cave. Wolfhounds most likely

EOM- i still think he may be to small at the top level but by God he is doing well for Leinster. I would expect to see a Spence/EOM pairing in the Wolfhounds much as it was the last time they played at ravenhill

McFadden- Kicking duties will see him get his confidence back and he will be involved in the 6N. Might be a bit part player though. Performances between now and february will be so important

Cave- Another one who could potentially break the 6N squads. Contrary to what was said above i think the only poor game he has had this season was against Glasgow. He was good at the weekend albeit he did make mistakes. Should have offloaded for a score but then consider his lovely straightening of the line and pass for Ferris' 2nd try. Genuinely dont know where he will fit in the pecking order.

Same height as yerman he's trying to replace... wotsisface? Oh yeah... BOD.

No matter who does what. No matter how well they do it, they wont be anywhere even near the player that BOD was and still is. We have to realise that now. To compare is unfair. So whoever stakes his claim to the 13 shirt, let him be judged on his own standards, style and merits. Last player in the same league as him... was Mike Gibson. Albeit at 12. We may have to wait another 20/30 years to see his like again. That's how good BOD was. Good enough to alter his game to suit his age and still win games on his own. Not just multi-talented skill-wise. Such an intelligent and hard-basterd player defensively and organisationally in every team he's played for. Leinster, Ireland and the Lions. He was and still is - beyond exceptional. It will take a few key players in the Irish and Leinster team to make up for his loss when he goes.

I wasnt thinking of height but build Gibson. I may be totally wrong but O'Malley always seemed skinny to me. Like i say though he is currently playing very well and has to be considered.

No one will replace BOD which is part of the reason i would quite like to see new IQ centre combinations for the provinces. We have already seen Wallace/Cave and it was a pretty good start for McFadden/O'Malley. I would be very excited to see a Marshall/Spence partnership for Ulster behind a first choice pack and with Paddy or Pienaar at 10.

You are right Stand. He is 8 kilos lighter and needs feeding and building up.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/profiles/comparison_leinster_squad.php?includeref=dynamic&compare_10000=33311&compare_10001=4038

I also want to see strong partnerships develop in Ulster & Munster. That guy Griffin at Connacht is also one to watch. The more the merrier for Ireland mo chara. The best will shine through and we dont know who they are yet.

Griffin and McSharry have both resigned so between those three provinces we seem to be well stocked in the centre.

Munster only have Barnes and im not sure he will make it internationally. Hanrahan looks like a prospect but he may move into ten. Wouldnt mind seeing a player like Ian Whitten go to Munster. I think he would suit their style and they could potentially get the best out of him.

Between Marshall, O'Malley and Hanrahan we seem to have ball players. Spence and McFadden we have decent strike runners
Cave is an all rounder
Griffin looks full of potential and guile.

I see on the UAFC site they were whispering that Tommy is coming home but not to Ulster but south with Leinster the likeliest destination. all speculation mind you

I don't think we need to have the "no one will be as good as BOD" attitude. The likes of Spence are totally different players to BOD anyways. They may be as good, they may not be. There is no need to write anyone off before they even get a chance. For example maybe a direct runner would suit Ireland more from 13 than a creative player such as BOD would. Who knows.

Whoever we select at centre, we must get behind them and hope they will have the same impact BOD has had. Lets not have a pessimistic attitude!

Its not pessimistic Rory. It is realistic. We arent going to get another BOD right away. Doesnt mean to say that the combination we do find wont be an improvement but i dont think we are writing anyone off when we say we wont see the same talent

Haha I was wondering who would be first to say it is realistic. I knew it was coming!

Ireland don't need another BOD. Not every player is the same. It is very possible we will see the same talent, maybe used in a different way for example. We may get someone better than BOD, or a lot worse. Nobody knows how this will pan out. Honestly though what I want more than individuals, is an effective combination of creativity and direct running.

I agree with regarding the combination thing but we dont produce talents like that on a conveyor belt. BOD was already capped was he not by the age of these young guys. they wont be the next BOD but that shouldnt worry or inhibit them. It hasnt at leinster

They don't need to be BOD though. They may be just as effective if not more. We will have to see!


Talking about creative/direct running centres:

Creative: Marshall, Cave, Griffin, O'Malley, BOD

Direct: Spence, McFadden, D'Arcy, Barnes, Whitten

I think a pairing should be made with one creative player, and one direct runner. That would be the best combination IMO.

Wont disagree at all Rory. Its a blessing in disguise for Ireland that the great man isnt available for the 6N (so long as Deccie actually looks at centre options and doesnt just pick from the same panel)

Of all those mentioned i still believe Marshall will be the lynchpin of the backline in the future which is why i get frustrated at the minute. Hopefully we will see a lot more of him in the 2nd half of the season

A player like BOD doesn't come around to often. But depth of quality across a whole squad beats one genius carrying a team every time. In the past he was literally the difference between victory and defeat in so many games. But our win ratio dropped when he was injured and couldn't play.

Keith Wood was impossible to replace. But the quality across the whole Irish team went up and Ireland got better after he retired, despite losing the best hooker in the world. If we keep increasing the number of top quality players in all positions, we will get better when BOD retires too. We have good prospects in most positions.

I think it's fair enough to question whether O'Malley will live with the physicality of test rugby, given his size. But we'll see. Some small players can and some can't. He'll bulk up over the next couple of seasons. But remember BOD bulked up a bit to much and his game suffered. He slimmed down again for the '09 season and had his best year ever.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:They don't need to be BOD though. They may be just as effective if not more. We will have to see!


Talking about creative/direct running centres:

Creative: Marshall, Cave, Griffin, O'Malley, BOD

Direct: Spence, McFadden, D'Arcy, Barnes, Whitten

I think a pairing should be made with one creative player, and one direct runner. That would be the best combination IMO.

I agree with this nearly 100%. think it is something Ireland has been missing for quite some time. Personally I'd like to see Marshall and spence in the next world cup that's where I think we should be heading.

Agree with stand when he says that Marshall will be key he's a seriously good footballer.

I don't think eom is too small, if he plays internationally (and I think he will) we will see what he's made of but look at the guys hes been up against before, he's already encountered some very big names.

I like the lad a lot and hope he starts on Sunday.