Wales overhyped and just not that good

So Wales lost AGAIN this year and at home to an inconsistant Australian team. Since the world cup starteda couple of months ago Wales have played 8 games and LOST 4. Of the four games they won only ONE was against a tier one nation. Wales are massively overhyped when you look at their poor results. A 50% win ratio since the start of the world cup is a sign of a poor team add in their results from the 6 nations and its clear Wales are no more a minor irritant to the world rankings. Their ranking of 8th in the world is fully justified in my opinion, you can only climb the rankings by winning games, and Wales just don't win many games to do so!
The Welsh public need to take off their blinkers and recognise actually look at RESULTS there are more losses than wins in there for Wales!

wrfc1980
Australia being second in the world rankings would see them as being very consistent in my book.
You can also go up the world rankings without having played a match so you are also wrong there.
Wales have lost a few close games but this young side is showing promise plus we have a decent coaching staff and I think if we remain injury free then we will do well in the six nations.

wrfc

this sort of analysis is just that, a minor irritant

Wales overhyped? Never! Although they have made great progress, the Welsh tend to get a bit overexcited at times. Other countries are making improvements as well. It is not a case that everyone stands still in terms of development. I think the SH are a good example of this. They are constantly raising the bar in terms of cracking defences and competing at the breakdown and their physicality is always impressive. I think the gap has closed, but it's two steps forward and one step back most of the time.

Yesterday was disappointing from a home nations perspective. While France have proved they can mix it with the big boys, the rest of us are playing catch-up.

Sorry about that Wales.

Reality is Australia are currently World Number 2 side,have recent wins over
the All Blacks,and 3 wins over the Boks.Have been in the top 4 for most of the Pro ERA.
Wales are a young and improving side currently rated Number 8,in truth
neither side were at there best.BUT the margin of loss was`nt great and there was only one try between them.Australia are a stronger side than
that which England defeated.
Currently they are the most settled SH side with both coaching staff and player retention.I think they may well start the 4Ns with a home win versus
the All Blacks.
England are currently in a state of flux,whether they can get together in time for the 6Ns we wait and see.
I think Wales this year have a very real chance of at least 4 wins out of 5.

Im not sure how you can have more losses than wins with a 50:50 ratio

It seems like the rest of the world have a problem with Welsh fans being optimistic. If you had said to the Welsh public we would reach the semi-final of the world cup after a poor six nations, lose by one point to France playing with 14 men for over an hour with a side thats hasn't been togeather very long we would have laughed at you. We have arguably the best back row in world rugby, a supurb no.10 and a backline that is one of the youngest and most exciting in the world, Goerge North is 19 for God sake. Onto yesterdays game, the two teams were a little undercooked. I was there yesterday and it didn't feel the same as a test match, more like a send off for Shane. Allot of the Welsh players have played one game since returning form the WC and again lost by just six points. All Australia's scores came when we were down to 14 men, proving how clinical and talented side they are. We were the better team in the first half but ultimately lost our way in those 10 mins in the second half. Adam Jones is such an important player for us and we were playing a prop who barely plays for his club. Throw into the mix us missing our two first choice locks and scrum half and then it looks a different story. I'm not making excuses however it was a pretty poor performance but I knew at the end of the game today we would get comments like this one. Stats, stats and more stats. If you want to talk about stats then Ireland and England were better than us at the world cup, even though we made it further in the competition. We have a young side that's going places, a settled coaching set up with people like Henson, Hook and Byrne not considered to play atm. That's why we are optimistic, because we can see that this side has great potential. We lost to the the no.2 side in the world yesterday in a one off test match by six points, Shane scored in the final minute of his final match for Wales and we will go into the six nations with hopefully a few miles on the clock with players playing for their regions. Why don't people stop trying to put us down all the time, if you find it annoying that we are optimistic how annoying do you think it is for us to keep seeing posts like this one. The six nations will tell us how far this team can go with games away at Twickenham and landsdowne. Hopefully we will see the team flourish, play good rugby, be free of injuries and fingers crossed come pretty close to winning the thing, for the last two seasons don't forget we have been in with a shout of winning the thing playing pretty poor rugby if you ask me. rant over

Optimism is never a bad thing, especially in the current climate people look for things to cheer them up and an up and coming Welsh side does just that.

There is still the fact that we again failed to beat a SH team, yes the game shouldn't have been played and yes it did seem more of a farewell to Shane, with the 1st half being one of the poorest I have seen for a long time from both sides.

Wales fans, coaches and players will go into the 6 Nations with a lot of confidence and that is when they should be judged. If we can get off to a good start in Dublin then back it up at home against Scotland (2 sunday games arrrrggggghhhhh) then we can travel to Twickers very happy.

Bring it on can't wait already

bedfordwelsh wrote:Optimism is never a bad thing, especially in the current climate people look for things to cheer them up and an up and coming Welsh side does just that.

There is still the fact that we again failed to beat a SH team, yes the game shouldn't have been played and yes it did seem more of a farewell to Shane, with the 1st half being one of the poorest I have seen for a long time from both sides.

Wales fans, coaches and players will go into the 6 Nations with a lot of confidence and that is when they should be judged. If we can get off to a good start in Dublin then back it up at home against Scotland (2 sunday games arrrrggggghhhhh) then we can travel to Twickers very happy.

Bring it on can't wait already

Exactly my point

I think we needed a reality check to be honest. This team is young with bags of potential and will only get better but we still havent made the breakthrough of beating top four sides consistently. The challenge for Gatts and Wales in the next four years is to win against the big boys enough until we are considered a top four side.

We are not there yet although often the welsh press seems to think so.
Most rugby fans in wales understand the game pretty well and realise Andy Howell is a horrible little press munchkin who caters to teh lowest realms of media. Its his attitude that often gets picked up by other countries fans and gets the rest of us tarred as village idiots.

There is also a lot of casual posters on this board at international time whose jingoism (of all nations)is grating even when its welsh jingoism. The rest of the time this board more than the old 606 or scrum v sites has far less village idiot mentality.

martyr 94
Spot on mate

Oh no some guy on the internet doesn't think Wales are any good at rugby and he views them as over hyped.
I don't think i will ever get over this verbal slating of Wales this guys opinion is far more valid than players and pundits the world over who say otherwise.

Also who needs pundits? just watch Wales progression over this year and you will see why they ARE on an upward curve.

If Wales won yesterday it would have been how "the Aussie didn't try for the nothing match" "the Aussies have had a long season" "The Ref" "Wales got lucky",
but now they lost to the Tri Nation champs and arguably one of the worlds best attacking teams they are over hyped and rubbish!!

Wales have come a long way and to even compete with Australia without James Hook.Morgan Stoddard, Lee Byrne,Mike Philips,Steven Jones,Andy Powell,Luke Chateris,Alyn Wyn Jones,Adam Jones and Craig Mitchell is testament to how far Wales have come.

So i guess im saying get a life get over it and enjoy the rugby.

I forgot and JD2 and dare i say Martyn Williams and Henson?

I wouldn't say Wales need to go back to the drawing board (as Eddie Butler in The Observer thinks) but this is a bit of a reality check in terms of strength both mentally and in depth.

Until they start winning games any progress can only be seen as a possibility. Wales need to make sure they don't pass yet more opportunities by. A decent World Cup but a poor year for the principality.

I'm not sure what the financial situation of a building society has to do with our national game.

Cymroglan wrote:I'm not sure what the financial situation of a building society has to do with our national game.

Bravo!

Yep Wales are overhyped, who cares?

I've supported Wales through thick and thin since the mid-1950s and I guess my username says how I feel about it - always hoping for something better! Even in the '70s!

We are as good as we are.On the right track but still looking for another 3.Short stocky blokes used to be aqll over the shop in Wales.Where have they all gone?
Wales have seemed better than they are coz they have been judged against their near neighbours.

One thing that did strike me yesterday was how little we crashed the ball up, for ages we have been saying we are predictable with Roberts going up the middle BUT it worked.

Yesterday without that burst up the middle we did lack an attacking threat so maybe we should go back a bit, not use him all the time but lets get him and North running hard n fast especially down the No10 channel.

I fail to see how on Earth Wales can be seen as being overhyped. They lost to a very consistent Australian side, how the OP sees the Aussies as being inconsistent is also mind boggling.

Wales shipped 21 points when down to 14 men. I also feel that the yellow was pretty harsh as 1/2p had no idea if JOC had the ball. JOC spread his arms wide and looked for the penalty IMHO. A fraction later and it would have been considered a very good tackle.

I still have France as the team to beat but Wales are well up there so i cant see them as being overhyped.

I don't think Wales are overhyped or that bad.

They have a good young squad that performed very well beyond expectations at the WC. A rugby mad nation like Wales should rightly feel proud of their performance & optimistic for the future.

On Saturday IMO Wales were well beaten & it's not a bad thing to have a reality check in a game that was more important for other reasons than just the result.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:On Saturday IMO Wales were well beaten & it's not a bad thing to have a reality check in a game that was more important for other reasons than just the result.

I have to agree with this. The result on Saturday should take away any possibility of complacency from the Welsh squad going into the Six Nations.

It's as Jiffy said on Sunday: we're not so good that we have the luxury of playing mediocre rugby and still winning. We have to be at our best to win big games.

Wales have been overhyped.

We do not know how good they are. They are promising, but need to turn that promise into winning. Lets see how the 6Ns go.

Saturday's game was once again a match where the desperation and enthusiasm of a teammate cost wales a period where they played with 14 men.

Australia is well known for having a killer instinct like few other teams to punish you when the opportunity presents itself.

Prior to that the match was very even indeed.

Yes Wales scored both their tries in the last quarter of the match, so some might argue that australia were defending a lead, rather than playing to put the game beyond touch.

However, Wales still scored those tries.

You still can't blame the carded player, he obviously tried to time his tackle, but O'Connor was too smart and you could see he almost waited for the tackle to come.

People need to learn that Australia is very, very smart, in fact themselves and New Zealand are the two smartest teams out there, they play the referee like a fiddle and assess what they can get away with, and it doesn't stop with the referees, they outsmart opponents.

What O'connor did on Saturday effectively gave his team three tries.

wales are to a certain extent in the same boat as SA, we both need to be smarter and more disciplined.

It cost us a semi final birth and wales a final birth in the word cup.

rugby is no longer about physical dominance, it is about outsmarting the opponnent and the referee.

Who is doing this so called overhyping? From what i can see most of the Welsh fans are very realistic on here. They still see that they are behind the SH sides but do have good expectations for the 6N.

I cant see very much overhyping at all, they have a young side and are gelling and will go into the 6N as equal or 2nd favourites with France. Can anyone really deny that?

Biltongbek;

I am not blaming JOC for what he did at all but i do find this kind of tactic as not being in the spirit of the game. Its akin to diving in football in my eyes. Its an element that is creeping into the game that i dont like.

That said, Wales completely imploded when down to 14 men and the Aussies were clinical in their finishing off. Australia were the better team throughout the match and deserved winners.

I didn't see anything wrong with what James O'Connor did. He tried to kick the ball on and was tackled without the ball with the tryline in front of him. I'd be annoyed too if I was in his position.

Billy, it depends on what your preconceptions are; if you already think Wales are getting more praise than their results deserve, there are some Welsh posters here who will provide you with further ammunition.

eirebilly wrote:Biltongbek;

I am not blaming JOC for what he did at all but i do find this kind of tactic as not being in the spirit of the game. Its akin to diving in football in my eyes. Its an element that is creeping into the game that i dont like.

That said, Wales completely imploded when down to 14 men and the Aussies were clinical in their finishing off. Australia were the better team throughout the match and deserved winners.

No, you can't blame JOC, he outsmarted his opponent, and the fact is we need to become smarter.

The truth is if my team made their first semi final in the world cup for 24 years, I would also be a very proud welshman, irrespective of losing 3/7 matches.

eirebilly wrote:Who is doing this so called overhyping? From what i can see most of the Welsh fans are very realistic on here. They still see that they are behind the SH sides but do have good expectations for the 6N.

I cant see very much overhyping at all, they have a young side and are gelling and will go into the 6N as equal or 2nd favourites with France. Can anyone really deny that?

eirebilly you say you are 2nd favourites behind France. What is your fixture list? Don't you have to play Ireland and England away? It wouldn't be out of the question if you lost both of them. You would expect to beat Italy and Scotland but the rest.....

I saw it a little differently Luckless, i saw JOC milk it by throwing his arma wide out. Cant blame him for doing it but i dont like it.

beshocked, i thought that my name would give away which country i support. Trust me, its not Wales . I just dont see too much overhyping.

eirebilly it's just I think it's too early to choose a favourite for the 6 nations.

England,France and Italy will have new coaches in charge.

The way I see Wales. They had a good world cup reaching the semis, they have plenty of promising youngsters but they need to build on this. They need to turn this promise into wins.

Hopefully Wales second loss to Australia on the bounce will put a stop to all the fecking Lions 2013 articals listing the whole Welsh squad as definite starters!!!

You have proved you can't do it on your own....

Will you actually let the teams that have beaten Australia this decade join in too?

I don't think you can criticise O'Connor for the sin-binning.

The Aussie passing/off-loading when they set out to take advantage of it was awesome.

The original question is a bit silly - Wales are over-hyped by some, not others. It is a very promising team but we still have problems in terms of depth in the front 5. England and Ireland and France produce front 5 players for fun, we don't.

There are 2 things which are pretty much a given after the weekend.
1. Wales were pretty well beaten at Home by Aus at the weekend. Only a last gasp consolation try by Shane saved their blushes.

2. Wales are always over hyped by the majority of their fans. They only have to beat Fiji and then they are world beaters in many eyes.

However, I believe that team is a very good one, fit and will certainly be at or near the top in the coming 6Ns. Priestland is a superb player. The back-row is excellent too. And that's from a patriotic Englishman.

eirebilly wrote:I fail to see how on Earth Wales can be seen as being overhyped. They lost to a very consistent Australian side, how the OP sees the Aussies as being inconsistent is also mind boggling.

Wales shipped 21 points when down to 14 men. I also feel that the yellow was pretty harsh as 1/2p had no idea if JOC had the ball. JOC spread his arms wide and looked for the penalty IMHO. A fraction later and it would have been considered a very good tackle.

I still have France as the team to beat but Wales are well up there so i cant see them as being overhyped.

Mate trying to claim that wasnt a yellow is pretty desperate. Com-ared the Lee Byrnes dive agaisnt Scotland anything JOC did to sell the contact was minimal in the extreme. He was rightly aggreived at being tackled well before he had a ball he wasnt even trying to catch ( he tried to kick it to avoid being tackled, only 1/2p had alredy started tackling him anyway)
I do agree that 1/2p was unlucky and didnt intend it to be early, but that doesnt come into the equation. It was very much a penalty, denying a clear try scoring chance. A penalty try wouldnt have been out of the question, but I think the ref was erring on the lenient side beleiveing Halfpenny may have had the opportunity to make a legal tackle if JOC had got got the ball and thet JOC may not have controlled the ball.
Law 10e "Playing a player without the ball is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick"

As it was 1/2penny screwed up because Wales were under pressure. Roberts maybe got away with one earlier when he batted off that pass on the wing with no attempt to catch it ( Law 12.1 e "Intentional knock or throw forward. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forwardwith hand or arm, nor throw forward)


Trying to pass this off as harsh or unfair is daft, unlucky maybe but it was caused by Australia breaking the Wales line. They were also on top at that point and stepping up. It was pretty clear that when they did start trying just before then and through the 10 minutes they had the beating of Wales. Most of the game they were just coasting through ( to be fair you could say the same for Wales)


This was the Shane Williams show, lets not read too much in either way about Wales' performance ( pretty mediocre for most of the game). Not a bad scoreline for them if somewhat flattering against a very good side. I expetc the summer tour to be another joke, many of the stars will need resting ( possibly for both teams) after a tough world cup year. The 6Ns is a better test of where Wales are really at, and as normal its wide open. I tend to agree with the pundits...France and Wales are probably in the best psoition but you cant rule out Ireland or England getting in the mix and any games between those 4 could easily go either way.

PSW, here you go again, i dont blame JOC for what happened OK. To me, watching it several times in slow motion, it looked as if he was going to catch the ball but felt 1/2p so thrust his arms out and the ball bounced off his body. Penalty for an early tackle absolutely but a yellow card seemed harsh.

I have also said that the Aussies were the better team the whole match so i dont get why you seem to single me out constantly.

There were many incidents during the match where i felt Wales were given leniency by the ref, that too for the Aussies. Its simply wasnt a great game but the Aussies did it all when they needed to and were clinical.

Billy you really need to get over this, I have disagreed with you on two points over the course of 3 months and you have turned it into somek kind of personal insult on both occassions. This is entirely in your head.

I responded to your assertion the the card was harsh by describeing how I saw what happened and with what the actual law in question was. You were wrong, it wasnt harsh...as I said perhaps unlcucky but very much a correct decision.

Dont stry and start a personal battle with peopel just because they disagree with you once in a while.

I repsonded to your post because it contained something I felt was grossly incorrect and unfair on JOC ( well two points actually but covering the same incident) then used that debate as an in to the rest of my points regarding this topic. Its not all about you or all a direct repsonse to what you said.

Please try and take the internet less personaly, last time you repsonded to me disagreeing with me by making up false accusations about me. I could do without having to defend my own character just because I dared to contradict you. Is it not OK for people to disagree with you?

As you say for the most part we are in agreement with the general points, which makes it even more ridiculous that you think Im singleing you out and trying to attack you somehow.

Exactly what percentage of my posts have been in response to things you have said?

No PSW, you constantly seem to come on and find points with me and me alone.
I have my opinion, many people have also voiced the same thing. You have your opinion and many people have the same view as yours. Thats the beauty of the world, contrasting opinions. Its a shame that you have always chosen to make this personal, even resorting to petty name calling. I will now ignore any further posts you make.

beshocked wrote:eirebilly it's just I think it's too early to choose a favourite for the 6 nations.

England,France and Italy will have new coaches in charge.

The way I see Wales. They had a good world cup reaching the semis, they have plenty of promising youngsters but they need to build on this. They need to turn this promise into wins.

Thats a fair point beshocked and i do agree with you to some extent but based on recent performances i still see Wales as one of the favourites with France. I havent written off England or Irelands chances yet either just simply saying who i feel the favourites are in my opinion. England still have a very good strong team, regardless of the drama surrounding them and i would not be suprised if the won the championship under the new manager. Just right now i feel Wales and France will be the favourites.

It was a tough game for both sides. A game too far in my opinion. Have to respect the Wallabies who kept their clean sheet against Wales. They know only too well that winning breeds confidence so best to keep kicking Wales when they´re down.

Wales can respond in two ways. Use this result to show to them that they are not the finished article yet and have a long way still to go to climb the rankings. The other option is to say that it was too long a season and the game didn´t mean anything. Well this is rugby and every game means something. If you say we´re building for the World Cup or we weren´t playing for anything important then your play will show that. Losing isn´t always such a bad thing but only by looking back on why you lost and making sure you don´t do it the next time.

Wales have had a rollercoaster season. They need to turn this loss into focusing on coming back stronger and better for the 6N. Because until Wales start winning consistently, there is some truth to the OP, despite his obvious intent.

as a welshman, i was dismayed that we seemed to stop doing some of the simple but effective things from the world cup, north on the angled bursts off priestlands shoulder, flat balls to roberts (the few times this was tried the passed were ill-timed or not gathered) and this meant we were a little too lateral in attacking again as we werent punching holes and generating quick ball.

Though, this welsh side was missing the starting lock pair, tighthead, scrumhalf and outside centre. I know Australia were missing a lot aswell, and in no way am i using that as an excuse for the loss, but im happy that wales were competitive with those players missing, a couple of years ago we'd have probably taken a hammering (we in fact did against the ozzies).

Also, you cant blame Halfpenny for attempting the tackle, he had too, JOC was smart (as billtong mentioned) and the ref had to give the yellow. Australia took the game out of reach then, a missed penalty off the post created their second try and that was the game nearly dead, Wales came back at the end. If theres one thing you can count on from wales, its some sort of rally if they're behind, they dont simply fade out of games and get spanked anymore.

Most of the "hyping" of this welsh side at the world cup was done by others, not ourselves, we know only too much how false dawns feel, this feels slightly different, but we know how that feels aswell.

My judgement is reserved until after the 6nations, but im quietly confident Wales could do some damage if they get back to the simple game plan we had at the world cup. Agree with Beshocked's sentiments.

I love seeing the ferocity in the tackle from some of these welsh boys, they're really starting to love it, what a turnaround seeing as defence was considered as optional up until Gatland took charge.

Thought we missed Mike Phillips aswell (try and slaughter me, but he's still the best welsh scrumhalf until Lloyd progresses).

Just my 2c.

Also, how fitting Shane got the try at the end, and i think we can all forgive him his cartwheeling-swallow-diving-ott-try-scoring-dive.

BlueNote wrote: England and Ireland and France produce front 5 players for fun, we don't.

We do please tell me who they are.

Other than hooker we have been very thin on the ground and for years have relied almost totally on Horan, Hayes, POC and DOC. Who is our current replacement for Ross or even Healy or POC ...

Ireland most definitely do not prodduce front 5 players for fun, I wish we did

geoff998rugby wrote:

BlueNote wrote: England and Ireland and France produce front 5 players for fun, we don't.

We do please tell me who they are.

Other than hooker we have been very thin on the ground and for years have relied almost totally on Horan, Hayes, POC and DOC. Who is our current replacement for Ross or even Healy or POC ...

Ireland most definitely do not prodduce front 5 players for fun, I wish we did

Do have quite the record for producing back five players though...!

geoff, I suppose I'm thinking of the 2nd row in particular for Ireland, although you turn out a lot of good hookers, too. Maybe prop has been a bit of a weakness relatively speaking.

eirebilly wrote:

beshocked wrote:eirebilly it's just I think it's too early to choose a favourite for the 6 nations.

England,France and Italy will have new coaches in charge.

The way I see Wales. They had a good world cup reaching the semis, they have plenty of promising youngsters but they need to build on this. They need to turn this promise into wins.

Thats a fair point beshocked and i do agree with you to some extent but based on recent performances i still see Wales as one of the favourites with France. I havent written off England or Irelands chances yet either just simply saying who i feel the favourites are in my opinion. England still have a very good strong team, regardless of the drama surrounding them and i would not be suprised if the won the championship under the new manager. Just right now i feel Wales and France will be the favourites.

See we do agree on most things

Under Kidney Ireland have become like Wales in one way. Sporadic brilliant performances with far to much absolute dross in between.

For me, neither team has shown the consistency to be confident of winning the 6 Nations.

I think if France react well to the new coach they'll coast it.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Under Kidney Ireland have become like Wales in one way. Sporadic brilliant performances with far to much absolute dross in between.

For me, neither team has shown the consistency to be confident of winning the 6 Nations.

I think if France react well to the new coach they'll coast it.

+1

Wales are a young side with alot of potential, the game against Australia proved that the Aussies are better than us but not by much, just like we saw in the 3rd place play-off, theres no drastic need to go back to the drawing board or anything, after Shane Williams, Jamie Roberts was the oldest player in our back-line yesterday at the age of 25, so these players with more experience under their belts can only get better

Wales are not "overhyped" because nobody has said Wales are better than the tri-nations sides, atm NZ, Oz and SA are the top 3 sides and then after that theres not much difference between Wales, Ireland, England, France and Argentina but as of late Wales have looked the most promising side