How good can this Wales team become?

Very young and inexperienced going into the World Cup and come out with a respectable fourth place after the English had predicted us to lose to Samoa and then Fiji (66 nil?). Players were blooded against higher ranked and experienced teams in the world cup warm-ups (including the Baa-baa's game).

Forward on from back then to the present and Wales are leading the 6 Nations with four wins from four games (the ONLY undefeated team) and a Triple Crown in the bag. It is still early days yet and the team has exceeded expectations. So the question is, how good can this Wales team become?

Personally Morg will only be satisfied with a win over France next weekend and at least the one win against Australia down under.

See, it wasn't that difficult, was it?

The team exceeded expectations at the Quarterfinals. We all said we would be happy to Qualify from our pool but didnt expect anymore from them.

This six nations has raised the bar and now our expectations are much higher.

We have youth, talent and quantity of players with both attributes in abundance in Wales. Now we have to look up. There are only three teams above us in the Rankings who we havent beaten in the last 12 months. THat is where our aspirations have to be.

I truly believe this Wales side can become good.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I truly believe this Wales side can become good.

They are already good. Try having the same expectations for your own team because they are pretty average.

Trumpton has a rugby team?

This Welsh side can go on and become very good. They need to overcome some mental obstacles in terms of being able to beat the SANZAR sides, but in terms of physical ability there are more than capable.

I genuinely hope that they do become a top top side as well, as it will be to the benefit of the game as a whole for any NH side to raise the bar to a level that sees them compete with the SH sides.


I do however have a question for you morgannwg. Why the need for a thinly veiled dig at the English in the OP? There were plenty of people of all nationalities questioning Wales abilty to get past the Pacific Nations sides prior to the tournament. Some of those were in fact Welsh, and basing their predictions of a tough time on previous performances against those nations.

Morgannwg wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I truly believe this Wales side can become good.

They are already good. Try having the same expectations for your own team because they are pretty average.

Honestly...you can't help yourself eh?

Anyhooo....with a GS in the bag and if you win gams against the SH teams this year then Wales can become a really excelant side. Maybe the best in the NH.

I'd like to quote a line from Pulp Fiction regarding how good the Wales team can become " Well lets not start sucking each others d ks just yet"

We could become a very good side but we need to learn to become more adaptable when our tactics aren't working.

Against England and Italy now, we've become very predictable.

Add some variety to our game, and I think we could be excellent.

Like Ozzy says though, got some mental hurdles to over come first, but hey where best to start then next weekend against France?

Wales are a good side but still need to prove whether they can cut it vs the big three of New Zealand,South Africa and Australia.

All the pacific island one-way traffic was coming from English posters Ozzy, as far as I could see anyway. I could have missed a few. Wales fans had judged our team good enough to dispatch of those two after seeing performances going into the world cup and our game against SA. Turns out we were right. We also said we probably have the best chance of winning the 6 Nations going by World cup performances, where as again people of the said nation told us we were overated and didn't win against another 'tier 1' teams. But like I said, I'm only satisifed with the win over France now.

I think Wales will beat France and get the slam fairly comfortably. I think they're good enough to get a win in Aus. A series win would be a fantastic acheivement. A good 6 Nations and AI next year on top of that and I think we're looking at serious contenders for the next world cup. Wales need consistency more than the highs and lows but a win against a Tri-Nations side would be setting down a benchmark and show that they are able to maintain good standards unlike the 2005/2008 sides.

By the way...

You only end up spoiling your own discussions with comments like this.

Morgannwg wrote:after the English had predicted us to lose to Samoa and then Fiji (66 nil?).

Then you just make yourself seem weird by referring to yourself in the 3rd person.

Morgannwg wrote:Personally Morg will only be satisfied with a win over France next weekend and at least the one win against Australia down under.

You do talk some utter nonsense at time Morgannwg. I spent a vast amount of time pre World Cup discussing Wales chances against the Pacific Nations sides with dreamer and luckless_pedestrian, both Welsh posters. They were concerned, as were many others.

Your belief that it was merely English posters using the Pacific Island sides as a stick to beat Wales with is a misheld one.

You generally are a knowledgable poster with the ability to make excellent contributions to this forum, however the sizeable chip that you have on your shoulder in relation to England does you no credit and makes you look far less intelligent than I would like to believe that you are.

It's always about Wales!!!!!! I think it should be more about How good Ireland can become.

Afterall, we haven't even begun to shift our pensioners to the caring home yet, we still even haven't let our young eagles near the squad nevermind onto a match day 22 yet. And we still have most points and most tries playing useless rugby.

That's what the Romans did for us!!!!!!!


Watch out World!

The question should really be, how good can the England team become.........wait a minute am I being overly sensitive?

Lots of power and size...but lacking a player like Shane who can do something from nothing.

A good defence can nullify them.

Wales beat France in 1999, the last five nations. Then in the 6 Nations and other games it reads:
2000: Wales 3 - 36 France
2001: France 35 - 43 Wales
2002: Wales 33 - 37 France
2003: France 33 - 5 Wales
2004: Wales 22 - 29 France
2005: France 18 - 24 Wales
2006: Wales 16 - 21 France
2007: France 32 21 Wales
2007: Wales 7 - 34 France (world cup warm-up)
2008: Wales 29 12 France
2009: France 21 -16 Wales
2010: Wales 20 - 26 France
2011: France 28 - 9 Wales
2011: France 9 -8 Wales (world cup quarter)

Some entertaining games over the years, but overall our record is terrible. So yeah I agree that to an extent Wales will need to overcome some physchological barrier if they are to progress. Same can be said for Aus as that may be an even tougher mental block. These guys are certainly more 'mentally tough' than previous teams though. Results this year back up this claim.

We need more from our 10, still not convinced he's 'the one'

rugbydreamer wrote:We could become a very good side but we need to learn to become more adaptable when our tactics aren't working.

Against England and Italy now, we've become very predictable.

Add some variety to our game, and I think we could be excellent.

Spot on. The last two games it's looked like we've become obsessed with the idea that we have giant backs and have just looked to run through the opposition. If we want to compete with the best, we'll need more than that.

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:The question should really be, how good can the England team become.........wait a minute am I being overly sensitive?

This comment is off topic.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:We could become a very good side but we need to learn to become more adaptable when our tactics aren't working.

Against England and Italy now, we've become very predictable.

Add some variety to our game, and I think we could be excellent.

Spot on. The last two games it's looked like we've become obsessed with the idea that we have giant backs and have just looked to run through the opposition. If we want to compete with the best, we'll need more than that.

I think the free flowing rugby approach in the game against Italy is the one we should be promoting. Except when it doesn't work, we do need a plan B and I feel that game was an opportunity to test out any 'plan B' that we may have. We also needed to give Hook a run at 10 in that fixture too. I can see France's defence being on top form this saturday just like the Italians was.

France's defence hasn't been great in their last couple of matches.

True. I'm nervous as they are so hard to predict.

What worries me is that they looked good against England when they played outside the kicking gameplan and ran the ball. I hope they stick to their gameplan for the full 80 on Saturday!

We can become an excellent team, we are pretty good now but there is still a lot more work needed. As mentioned our attack has to vary more. Just because our backs are big doesn't mean they should forget how to play the game space wise. I think our support play needs more work as the line breaks are not being converted into scoring opportunities. I would like to see a few more offloads to keep defences guessing. I think we are finally using some dummy runners to better effect but more work done here will make us dangerous.

We also need to get out of the mentality of trying to win the game in the last 20 and relying on our fitness. The SH teams won't tire after 60 so we need to be more aggressive from the start.

Also our forwards need to carry more. Italy defended well on sat but we didn't really suck the defenders in so they were allowed to just commit 1 or 2 players to the ruck. We have to pick and go more.

I'm confident we can beat France on Sat but when we go to Aus we need to be able to go up a few gears to beat them.

That's a good point. I'd like to see our forwards pick and go from our 22 to the opposition 22 more, like they have previoulsy done against England and Ireland to great effect.

I just think it's dumb to keep attacking the opposition where they expect to be attacked. It might work eventually but it's not particularly smart rugby.

The French players changed their tactics on the pitch, they decided themselves to change , this was before half time.

We never do this.when our plan isnt working, why?

We need some flair at 12, some consistent control at 10,
keep the ball, stop kicking to the opposition, and North needs to look for a pass instead of contact. We are not improving.

The structure of the Welsh attack would change dramatically if the forwards committed defending players to the ruck and the speed of the ball was quick. This is not the case and we are relying on big backs to try and get over the gain line and create the miss match. It needs to be done with the forwards, then the likes of JD and North will have space and be able to run. Interesting to read Mirco Bergamassco's comments about how easy (predictable) it was to defend against us because everything is trying to be done in the backs straight away! Come on Mr Gatland even the opposition is telling you what you need to do!!!

Impossible Standards wrote:The structure of the Welsh attack would change dramatically if the forwards committed defending players to the ruck and the speed of the ball was quick. This is not the case and we are relying on big backs to try and get over the gain line and create the miss match. It needs to be done with the forwards, then the likes of JD and North will have space and be able to run. Interesting to read Mirco Bergamassco's comments about how easy (predictable) it was to defend against us because everything is trying to be done in the backs straight away! Come on Mr Gatland even the opposition is telling you what you need to do!!!

And I was told a few weeks ago that there is just no way to defend against the big backs. Teams will find a way. Rugby is continual cat and mouse. We do something - you do something to counteract it - we do something to negate the counter, etc, etc, etc.

To be fair the Welsh forwards did well in the first 2 games, they did manage to create space and work up the field. The problem is we are now relying purely on our backs to do it all and it just won't work. England and Italy worked us out and coped fairly well. If we continue this way we will come up short in the SH tests.

we are looking for something in our 10 rp that i don't think he has.
he has been playing with such lack of conviction, hesitancy, poor decision making, i honestly dont think he is the long term answer at 10.

hopefully for the sake of NH rugby they can become very good and genuinely take the fight to the SH. Too many teams in recent years have been satisfied with winning the 6N's and not kicked on afterwards. I want to see Northern hemisphere rugby become the best in the world and it can only do that by raising the aspiration bar beyond our own small borders. Wales need scalps this summer and autumn else it'll all be for nowt in the long term. Don't settle for being the best of a mediocre bunch.

hopefully very good. It will be an interesting match next week. Will the French turn up?

I hope they can be very good. (Of course I hope we can be better).

How good can they become - well a lot will depend on the strength in depth in key positions - most notably the front row but with Priestland suffering a little from second-season blues Stand Off could also be an issue.

The first XV are certainly strong enough to be the major force in NH Rugby for a few years.

I guess the other question is how long until the other NH sides can catch up with the progress Wales have made?

Do the other nations have the quantity and quality of young players coming through that Wales currently do?

maestegmafia wrote:I guess the other question is how long until the other NH sides can catch up with the progress Wales have made?

Do the other nations have the quantity and quality of young players coming through that Wales currently do?

Yes.

maestegmafia wrote:I guess the other question is how long until the other NH sides can catch up with the progress Wales have made?

Do the other nations have the quantity and quality of young players coming through that Wales currently do?

Don't forget that Wales' "progress" started when they when they were doing pretty poorly. They've had to come from behind Ireland, England and France and are now the form side in the past two tournaments. It's not like those sides have an awful lot of catching up to do based on the previous games between the sides, all close including the WC France game which Wales lost.

The answer to your second question is yes. It's what they do with them that counts. Gatland has done a good job so far with the Welsh youngsters.

It sort of echoes what other posts have said but we can only judge them at the end of the year after the series in Aus and teh AIs. At the moment we have a really promising clutch of players who, whist I think they have looked the best team in the championship have had a fair amount of luck along the way. There is certainly little difference between Ireland and Wales at the moment and from yesterday England arent too far behind.

We have a Tight five that are very good in all departments except the lineout which is our Achillies heel. However the re-emergence of Evans in the second row is a real plus this tournament.

The backrow is one of the most balanced in world rugby but is still inexperienced. As they gain more experience the will hopefully get more nous about their play. One thing you can say about this team is it seems to be more intellegent than some of the squads we have sorted out and the backrow is indicative of that.

The pack is overall capable of matching the SH if only they could sort out the lineout it would be damn near perfect. They do need to learn when to clean ball up and drive rather than just shovelling the ball out to teh backs.

The halfbacks have taken a lot of stick but actually I think that has been as much down to good defensive play by the opposition rather than poor play fron Phillips and Priestland. Both Italy and England targetted our halfbacks and it worked the stopped the flow of good ball to our strike runners. The concern is that we didnt deal with that better against Italy. Again I think our clearing out was poor but not helped by Clancy.

The outside backs and midfield seem to have got a bit fixated on how big they are against Italy and England. They need to remember a bit of guile as well. Sometimes you need to play territory and constant harum scarum stuff ends up down blind alleys. Im still not convinced by Howley as backs coach. Still Halfpenny at full back and as place kicker is a good development and we havent missed Shane.

All in all we have a lot to work on if we are going to fullfill our potential. Had things turned out differently we could have lost to Ireland drawn with England and be staring down the barrell of fourth place again so I dont think we should get too carried away. If we win a series in Oz then we can all go mental. until then Im pleased but not ecstatic.

SecretFly wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I guess the other question is how long until the other NH sides can catch up with the progress Wales have made?

Do the other nations have the quantity and quality of young players coming through that Wales currently do?

Yes.

Well where are they and why aren't they playing?

maestegmafia wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I guess the other question is how long until the other NH sides can catch up with the progress Wales have made?

Do the other nations have the quantity and quality of young players coming through that Wales currently do?

Yes.

Well where are they and why aren't they playing?

We have a few dopes to get rid of first before we release them onto the world stage. The dopes won't stop scoring tries so we're honour bound to keep picking them for now. Don't you ever watch HC though? You should, it's a nice competition.

lol so you took my advice then.

answer to your question- not as good as england will