Bath vs Leinster DOUBLE HEADER Teams/Discussion

USING THIS THREAD FOR BOTH GAMES

So Bath went down with a huge fight last week and really put the game to a slightly misfiring Leinster "away" side. Huge performances from Louw and Caldwell in particular and the boot of Barkley giving Bath a lot to cheer about considering the doom and gloom that was felt before the game.

Leinster had a few chances to put the game beyond Bath but didn't take some opportunities they should have. Sexton put in a huge shift which steadied the ship big time, displaying great defence and game management while SOB put in some big carries and great steals.

The game ended 13-18 to Leinster, leaving the pool still somewhat open.

The return game is this Saturday in Lansdowne Rd. Bath fans are expecting the same team out as the injury situation doesn't seem to have changed where as Leinster fans are expecting their "home" team to take the field, introducing the likes of Healy, Toner, Jennings, reddan and O'Malley from the off.

How will the game go?
What are your team perdictions?
What are the vital areas between the teams?
What tactical plans need to be in place for each team?
Will this thread survive without another ROG vs Sexton cat fight?
Score predictions?

I really struggle to see Bath getting anything from this game. I do think they will stop Leinster getting the TBP.

It will be interesting to see if leinster can put down a marker in the two Bath matches.

Just a gut feeling. I think Bath could sneak it.

Tiger-What makes you think Bath are going to roll over Sunday? If this was in Dublin could you see Leinster getting 4 tries +???

So far 3 votes for Leinster to win without Bath getting within 7?
What do the Bath lads have to say about this?
Lads who voted: why do you think Leinster will win? Where will they beat Bath?

Stag!?!?! What makes you think bath will sneak it?

I voted for 4-1 to Leinster. I think it'll be closer than some people think. Teams don't generally get thrashed at home, and even the best teams have to work hard for an away win as long as the home team keeps putting up a fight.

If theyre playing the more defensive side away as they did last year id think VDM would start although healys scrummaging has come leaps and bounds.

Hope sykes doesnt play looked very average in every game Ive seen him in Id expect cullen and toner with browne on the bench.

Form points to a leinster win and as long as theyre in the right frame of mind they should win.

red_stag wrote:Just a gut feeling. I think Bath could sneak it.

Very possible. The bookies having Leinster 4/9 on for an away HC game against english opposition is a bit crazy. This will be a real test of Leinster's focus in preparation. Bath will be better than expected, go in as complete underdogs, and everyone is saying Leinster will walk away with it. These are the situations that usually an Irish side become too relaxed, take the result as a given and get overrun from the first whistle.

Wish I could share the optimism towards Bath, you fellas obviously haven't seen us live recently. I suppose the one thing in our favour is our unpredictability, although its also our biggest weakness, along with a complete lack of skill in the front row (where you will pummel us!)

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Stag!?!?! What makes you think bath will sneak it?

Nothing especially concrete. Form suggests Leinster but things like Bath's home advantage, Leinster's game against Montpellier, that type of thing.

I think Leinster are dominant in pretty much every area, I would imagine our scrum will gain more than just parity. I think our tight 5 in general will provide us a better platform than theirs will.

Our backrow is far superior.
Halfbacks are more even but Donald can be a bit of a loose canon at times.
No idea who they will play in the centres, personally I think Barkley and Hipkiss/Banahan are their best options. Our back3 should be more dangerous but if we were going out for all out attack I'd play Carr-Nacewa-Fitzgerald I think this is our best back3 at the moment

Bath seem to have the weaker pack at the moment - definite injury problems in the front row, particularly at hooker, none of their locks to my mind are sticking up their hands, and the backrow is less than the sum of its parts for some reason. Of course, all that could change this weekend, but I just don't think so. Leinster with 4 points

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Bath seem to have the weaker pack at the moment - definite injury problems in the front row, particularly at hooker, none of their locks to my mind are sticking up their hands, and the backrow is less than the sum of its parts for some reason. Of course, all that could change this weekend, but I just don't think so. Leinster with 4 points

Lock is one of the few places that people are putting their hands up! Caldwell and Attwood have been great, but Hooper is captain and 3rd choice! Also, without a hooker, its hard to win lineouts and scrums. ho hum

Bathite wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Bath seem to have the weaker pack at the moment - definite injury problems in the front row, particularly at hooker, none of their locks to my mind are sticking up their hands, and the backrow is less than the sum of its parts for some reason. Of course, all that could change this weekend, but I just don't think so. Leinster with 4 points

Lock is one of the few places that people are putting their hands up! Caldwell and Attwood have been great, but Hooper is captain and 3rd choice! Also, without a hooker, its hard to win lineouts and scrums. ho hum

Bathite, you put it more eloquently than me - Hooper has disappointed, but is captain, Caldwell is still a walking penalty machine, and Atwood has been good, but lack of hooker means that lineouts are a problem

Stag has a feeling that Bath will do it. I have a feeling that we will go over there and knock 7 shades a shyte outa them.

Don't know why, and I would be happy with a 6 5 win, but I just feel we are poised to really cut loose.

If I am wrong, I will happily come on here and eat humble pie on Monday.

I think we have an extra few gears that we have not even taken the wrapping paper off yet, and we are catching Bath at a weak point. I wouldn't read too much into the draw with Montpelier, we were asleep for the 1st half.

If we show up with the wrong attitude, we can lose this for sure. I just don't think we will. If we show up with our A game, we could cut them to ribbons.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Stag has a feeling that Bath will do it. I have a feeling that we will go over there and knock 7 shades a Poopie outa them.

I wouldn't be all that surprised if you did. Its a difficult game to call.

red_stag wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Stag has a feeling that Bath will do it. I have a feeling that we will go over there and knock 7 shades a shyte outa them.

I wouldn't be all that surprised if you did. Its a difficult game to call.

sorry lads. Poopie just doesn't cut it for me.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Stag has a feeling that Bath will do it. I have a feeling that we will go over there and knock 7 shades a shyte outa them.

I wouldn't be all that surprised if you did. Its a difficult game to call.

sorry lads. Poopie just doesn't cut it for me.

?? I don't understand.

I also don't see how you can simply forget your last away game in Europe. To me that performance is more relevant that winning big against Cardiff B team in the Pro 12.

Leinster are favourites for the tournament without a doubt but there are tough matches along the way. This could be one.

red_stag wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Stag has a feeling that Bath will do it. I have a feeling that we will go over there and knock 7 shades a shyte outa them.

I wouldn't be all that surprised if you did. Its a difficult game to call.

sorry lads. Poopie just doesn't cut it for me.

?? I don't understand.

I also don't see how you can simply forget your last away game in Europe. To me that performance is more relevant that winning big against Cardiff B team in the Pro 12.

Leinster are favourites for the tournament without a doubt but there are tough matches along the way. This could be one.

Sorry. The board changes shyte into poopie, so I just changed it back.

I agree that you need to watch our results away in Europe. We are slow starters though, and I don't think we will play like that again. Bath don't have the players to beat us up in the same way as Mont either.

That was our mistake over there, we tried to "Hammer the Hammer" and take them on up front in the 1st half, instead of moving their big pack around.
Bath don't have the same big pipe hittin mothafukkahs in their squad. We are a little weak in the 2nd row compared to say... Munster, but the front and back rows contain no one I would like to meet on a dark night.

Gotta say without sounding too condescending i don't see Bath as the hardest opposition. Ulster beat them home and away in the last 2 HEC, granted they had to play well but leinster have a better team then ulster and as long as they dont take the game for granted they should win.

I'd be very disappointed if we lost this game I have to say, no disrespect to bath, but I think we should win this, I am not expecting us to blow them out of the water but I want and expect a good win.

If Bath show up their midfield will worry me especially if they play Donald-Barkley-Banahan as long as the three are having a good day! (all 3 in one day? Blue moons happen more regularily)

Where do people think Bath could threaten Leinster?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Where do people think Bath could threaten Leinster?

The pub? (Maybe) I still think we could out-drink them though. Even with superior numbers.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Where do people think Bath could threaten Leinster?

The midfield is an obvious one. There are still question marks over D'arcy and O'Malley I would think. So far so good but thats the one area were you'd be watching to see how they get on in attack and defence.

Can't see past a Leinster win here though.

I wonder will Schmidt go for O'Malley or McFadden? I think he should go for EOM but I don't know what he will do.

Midfield is the obvious target for Bath I guess.

Hipkiss is a good player, himself and Erinle outplayed BOD and Darcy in the 09 final to be fair.

I’m not normally one for making bold predictions, but I’ve voted for Bath 0-5 Leinster. I have to agree with JenniferMcLadyboy and say we look to have an extra gear and if we’re on song we could blow them out of the water. Normally Joe picks a big side for an away game but I think if we go for a mobile pack we will have more luck. Stretch out the defense and send O’Brien, Heaslip, Strauss/Cronin, Healy running hard at them.

I’ll be back to eat humble pie if I’m wrong though. promise!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I wonder will Schmidt go for O'Malley or McFadden? I think he should go for EOM but I don't know what he will do.

Midfield is the obvious target for Bath I guess.

The ball has to get to the midfield first! Thats been the problem thus far

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I wonder will Schmidt go for O'Malley or McFadden? I think he should go for EOM but I don't know what he will do.

Midfield is the obvious target for Bath I guess.

O'Malley and Darce I reckon.

McFad either 23 or on the wing.

I think the back 3 will be Luke, Isa and Rob with Ferg on the bench. But Luke, Ferg Isa, with Rob on the bench works for me too. Think Joe will go with the 1st one.

Yeah Mick I can remember Hipkiss had a field day. BOD actually hasn't played well in either HCup final come to think of it.

Neither Hipkiss or Banahan will go around O'Malley that's for sure, he's quick, agile and has good defensive positioning, they will probably try gain ground by staying high and driving the legs.

I really think Carr deserves to be in the 23 if not the XV

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:.

Neither Hipkiss or Banahan will go around O'Malley that's for sure,

Bold statement, I'm pretty sure both will try through, as well as around at some point

I’d start Fitzgerald and R. Kearney on the wings, with Isa at fullback and Carr at 23. He could be the perfect impact sub, and god knows Joe loves his impact subs!

I'd start

11 Carr
14 Fitz
15 Íosa
23 Kearney

I think that that group not only are the best broken field runners we have in our squad but they have shown themselves to be defensively quite solid. Carr came in with a bad reputation defensively but I think he has proved that misplaced.

I think back3 players generally do more attacking than defending anyway in general and at least here players are in their best positions, (not Kearney or Nacewa on the wing).

I think a backline of

Reddan-Sexton
McFadden-O'Malley
Carr-Nacewa-Fitz

would be beyond exciting! Got a bit light headed at the thought! Heart flutters!!! haha

Jeysus Pete, imagine Conway was back in the squad as well?

We’d be picking you up off the floor!

You'd need a high glucose energy chocolate snack to revive him.

red_stag wrote:You'd need a high glucose energy chocolate snack to revive him.

Hahaha! It's 100% true!

I think rob has played well and has proven he is learning how to attack better with Schmidt but I still think I'd prefer Isa's silky runs and amazing decision making rather than Rob who is solid and some more.

Just as a something of an outsider Stag, who would you start for Leinster in the back 3?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Just as a something of an outsider Stag, who would you start for Leinster in the back 3?

EDIT: whole backline

09 Eoin Reddan
10 Jonathan Sexton
11 Luke Fitzgerald
12 Gordon Darcy
13 Eoin O'Malley
14 Fergus McFadden
15 Isa Nacewa

21 Isaac Boss
22 Ian Madigan
23 Rob Kearney

red_stag wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Just as a something of an outsider Stag, who would you start for Leinster in the back 3?

EDIT: whole backline

09 Eoin Reddan
10 Jonathan Sexton
11 Luke Fitzgerald
12 Gordon Darcy
13 Eoin O'Malley
14 Fergus McFadden
15 Isa Nacewa

21 Isaac Boss
22 Ian Madigan
23 Rob Kearney

I could go with that. I think Joe will play Rob at 15 and Isa at 14 though. Also may play Boss ahead of Redan.

I think I would start Redan though. We usually get quicker ball, and we could move them about more with Redan there. Boss is the man for games like Montp where we reckon we will be in a dogfight.

Just a thought lads, but what would you think about trying Madigan out as a scrum half for one of the league matches?

He’s quick, had a good break, a quick and accurate pass, and it would hide his weaknesses of out of hand kicking and game management.

Bath would be better off with Hipkiss in the centres than Banahan, though I reckon they might see a very small EOM (compared to Banahan) or a smallish McF (again compared to Banahan) and put Banahan in as a crash ball runner. EOM can get bounced off by the stockier set opponent which can hold his feet and keep going forward - Hipkiss, even an aging Hipkiss, is class at doing this and will cause more trouble. Banahan, while a bigger lump going into contact at pace, gives himself up to be taken to ground far quicker than Hipkiss and his height/momentum would benefit the likes of EOM/McF in the tackle. Barkley and Darcy will be a nice match up. Barkley is only coming back isn't he (?), and Darcy while written off a lot over the last year and more is quietly turning it around.

I wonder how much was Darcy trying to make up for the great one outside of him, if he knew the extent of BODs injury you wouldn't have confidence to let the outside man cover the space and would over commit in the draft/rush defense (which ever tactic would be chosen on the day). Might the same have been happening outside of BOD since the 6Ns with Fitz coming infield to try and help out?

Mickado wrote:Just a thought lads, but what would you think about trying Madigan out as a scrum half for one of the league matches?

He’s quick, had a good break, a quick and accurate pass, and it would hide his weaknesses of out of hand kicking and game management.

But why would you move your second choice 10 away from concentrating on those duties and put him in a position where you have 2 international caliber players in Boss and Reddan. I'd even try to blood in Luke McGrath from the academy before trying to reposition Madigan. Good to be thinking outside the kimberly box though, Mickado.

Mickado wrote:Just a thought lads, but what would you think about trying Madigan out as a scrum half for one of the league matches?

He’s quick, had a good break, a quick and accurate pass, and it would hide his weaknesses of out of hand kicking and game management.

I can see why he might do well there but for me your moving him from a position of weakness to a position of strength. He is second choice behind sexton and has done very well. if he was to move positions hed be behind reddan and boss and would see less game time.

I don't think his game management is that bad. then again I haven't seen him trying to play on the back foot to often.

I'm just thinking out loud to be honest lads, and when I said a league game i mean during the 6nations when we could potentially be without both SH's and could have to play Berquist at out half.

If Bath start with Banahan we should try the choke tackle, hold him up and force a scrum.

Mickado wrote:I'm just thinking out loud to be honest lads, and when I said a league game i mean during the 6nations when we could potentially be without both SH's and could have to play Berquist at out half.

If Bath start with Banahan we should try the choke tackle, hold him up and force a scrum.

Mainly if Banahan takes the inside centre or first receiver line for the crash ball. Sexton/Darcy might be able to make that work but it would be difficult to hold him up further out. Even Sexton/Darcy only tend to be successful if the forward cover is close in the defensive line and can join in quickly, otherwise we will give up 8-10 yards territory before deciding to fall to ground. His running style and build would make a good target for that kind of a tackle alright, you can tackle waist height and stay in a stable body position and the ball will be at a good height for the second tackler to target/challenge/rip and delay any offloads.

Banahan defending at outside centre might get drawn in more for the wrap around option as well. Hipkiss strikes me as being more savvy in defense and potentially reading the body language/play better as it develops.

I think it's a nice idea Mick but I believe that the scrumhalf game manages just as much, or at least should game manage just as much as the 10 but in a different way. 9 is the secondary game manager of the team and that task should not be underestimated, being a 9 I know it's a huge part of whether I think I've played well or not.

Nice idea though and may actually happen with Berq back, although Berq may go to 15 with Iosa at 12 or wing.

Yeah I'd prefer them to play Banahan rather than Hipkiss, Hipkiss worries me when he has space even against a well set defence. He loves attacking drift defences as his step and change of pace allow him to misdirect defenders and either go through gaps, make space for others to go through them or makes yards.

I'd say with a Barkley/Banahan midfield to come up quick, give Barkley 0 space and cut out Banahan behind the game line and make him a spectator for the whole game. Whoever the 9 is will have to cover behind because Donald loves running himself and dinks through the 10-12-13 channel for his teammates to chase.

Bathite wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:.

Neither Hipkiss or Banahan will go around O'Malley that's for sure,

Bold statement, I'm pretty sure both will try through, as well as around at some point

True Bathite was a bit hasty. I imagine Hipkiss would but can't see Banahan trying to?
Who would you want in the midfield for Sunday?
Do you think we can be exploited there?

I'm not expecting much to be honest mate and although its a cliche, I genuinely want a performance not the result. I imagine, if we offer nothing in attack and just concede penalties at the break down and scrum time and maybe a try due to Leinster's quality then we could lose 17-12 ish +-5 each way. But we would gain nothing from that and I wouldn't enjoy it at all.

I'm hoping that we show some improvement at breakdown and make some line breaks in midfield with support runners looking for offloads.

Wouldn't say you could be exploited there, don't know your two players that well there, don't watch any of the crappy rabo league (except, strangely enough, did watch the whole of your demolition of the blues). We can't exploit as such, but its probably the one area where we can rival or better you (on paper!). Maybe half backs as well, but you will have much better quality and quicker ball as your back row are ace!

For what its worth, I think we will line up like this, near enough, few injuries are touch and go

Flatman - Biller - Perenise
Attwood - Caldwell
Louw - Taylor - Mercer

Classens
Donald
Woodburn - Barkely - Hipkiss - Banahan
Bendy

[quote="Bathite"]I'm not expecting much to be honest mate and although its a cliche, I genuinely want a performance not the result. I imagine, if we offer nothing in attack and just concede penalties at the break down and scrum time and maybe a try due to Leinster's quality then we could lose 17-12 ish +-5 each way. But we would gain nothing from that and I wouldn't enjoy it at all.

I'm hoping that we show some improvement at breakdown and make some line breaks in midfield with support runners looking for offloads.



I have to say I agreed Bathite. I can't remember going into a game expecting a defeat as much as I do now for a while. If we show more aggression up front, so Claasens can get some quick ball and run some semblence of a backs move I won't be too disappointed even if we do lose. I really hope someone has put a rocket up their collective ar$es so they come out and actually look as if they want to play rugby.

Mind you, Lenister are such overwhelming favourites it could be a good time to catch them napping!