Treviso vs Leinster Sat 2pm Teams/Discussion

Right guys,

League action re-commences after a pretty solid HCup opening for us.
Smal has come out and said that the Irish player welfare prog will have an impact on this game, but at the same time Treviso have made huge improvements this year, will we get another shock like last year?

We didn't even get a LBP last year in Treviso if my memory serves me well. I think it is safe to say that certain players who played the last 3 games and were on RWC duty will be rested, I am thinking of Sexton, Kearney, Darcy, Ross and maybe Cullen. Fitzgerald has also played in every game so far this season will he be rested?

What are your thoughts on the opposition?
Do you think we can get out with a win?
What will our team look like?
Areas we should exploit against them or areas where we may be exploited?

All your thoughts on the game, lay them bare!

Leinster team:
15: Luke Fitzgerald
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Eoin O'Malley
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Fionn Carr
10: Ian Madigan
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Cian Healy
2: Sean Cronin
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8: Leo Auva'a

REPLACEMENTS:
16: Aaron Dundon
17: Jack McGrath
18: Nathan White
19: Kevin McLaughlin
20: Jamie Heaslip
21: Isaac Boss
22: Noel Reid
23: Brendan Macken


BENETTON TREVISO:
15: Luke McLean
14: Benjamin De Jager
13: Tommaso Benvenuti
12: Alberto Sgarbi
11: Brendan Williams
10: Kristopher Burton
9: Tobias Botes

1: Michele Rizzo
2: Enrico Ceccato
3: Lorenzo Cittadini
4: Antonio Pavanello CAPTAIN
5: Valerio Bernabò
6: Paul Derbyshire
7: Alessandro Zanni
8: Robert Barbieri

My team for Saturday:

Healy- Needs game time and will lock our scrum
Strauss- Give Cronin a rest and Strauss is probably a bit grittier and harder
White- Ross needs a rest after 3 big games and looked unfit also
Toner- Has played a lot recently but is gaining form bigtime and didn't start in France
Browne- Played well in France and would need a bruiser beside Toner
Ruddock- Another lineout option and gives SOB a rest
Jennings- Hasn't started many games yet
Heaslip- Starting to hit form need this to continue
Reddan- Has started less than Boss and his speed is invaluable with Jennings
Madigan- Give Sexton a rest and gain some experience
D.Kearney- Impressed at times during RWC, gives Fitz a rest
McFadden- Needs time at 12 and Darcy needs a rest
O'Malley- Did very well last week and deserves a shot or two
Carr- Played well when he came on and his defence looked improved
Nacewa- Giving Kearney a rest and put him back in his best position

VDM-Hagan-Cronin-Cullen-SOB-Boss-Sexton-Fitzgerald

I think we should really try and go after them in the game management areas. Kick corners get McLaughlin and Toner up who are good at winning opposition ball. Try and put the squeeze on in the scrum. Keep the defense solid and make them kick back to our back 3 who are a running and kicking threat.
Get Jenno to the breakdown early and slow there ball and frustrate them.

I assume the team is being announced tomorrow then?

Leinster team:
15: Luke Fitzgerald
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Eoin O'Malley
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Fionn Carr
10: Ian Madigan
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Cian Healy
2: Sean Cronin
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8: Leo Auva'a

REPLACEMENTS:
16: Aaron Dundon
17: Jack McGrath
18: Nathan White
19: Kevin McLaughlin
20: Jamie Heaslip
21: Isaac Boss
22: Noel Reid
23: Brendan Macken


BENETTON TREVISO:
15: Luke McLean
14: Benjamin De Jager
13: Tommaso Benvenuti
12: Alberto Sgarbi
11: Brendan Williams
10: Kristopher Burton
9: Tobias Botes

1: Michele Rizzo
2: Enrico Ceccato
3: Lorenzo Cittadini
4: Antonio Pavanello CAPTAIN
5: Valerio Bernabò
6: Paul Derbyshire
7: Alessandro Zanni
8: Robert Barbieri

Luke back at 15 is an interesting call and looks like McFadden and Macken will be covering the centres.

Surprised to see Darcy still in the team since he just played 3 big games on the bounce after the RWC.

Glad Jenno is in there and like Ruddock getting game time too. Healy was in need of it too and can see this being the Irish front row one day!

Very exciting back 3 if they get ball and in general is quite a quick team.

Another chance for Toner, Madigan and O'Malley to further improve their chances of featuring more for Leinster.

Surprised D. Kearney or conway arent on the bench instead of macken since mcfadden and fitz cover centre.

Would have preferred mclaughlin at 6 and ruddock at 8. haven't seen much of auva'a is he any good?

If I were a Leinster fan I wouldn't be happy with the backline. Overall though its a good team that should win the game with ease.

Hi Golden,

Not talking to myself anymore! Yes!

Yeah I'd agree with you on those points, there was a mention at one point of Conway getting a knock but Kearney could have been a good one to have. We don't have any cover for 15 in the 23 man squad.

Avuav'a is ok. He is a ball carrier primarily and is quite explosive against lesser teams (aka during the RWC) but he isn't great without front foot ball.

You think we should win Stag?
Not wild on our pack tbh, hope it fronts up good and proper. Hope we can live with them physically more than anything else.

Is the game on in Dublin Pete?

Dunno stag apart from fitz at 15 again, i like the backs.

Dont know much about the treviso front 5 but the rest of the side looks pretty good. Id say leinster could struggle.

Optimistically ill say Leinster by less than 5

Ah they're ok back but I just thought that its a chance missed for McFadden-O'Malley in midfield. There are loads of back 3 players who could step in and do well as a winger/fullback - Carr, D.Kearney, Conway etc.

BTW I see its in Italy - could be tough.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Hi Golden,

Not talking to myself anymore! Yes!

Ye thought id interrupt your conversation with yourself

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah I'd agree with you on those points, there was a mention at one point of Conway getting a knock but Kearney could have been a good one to have. We don't have any cover for 15 in the 23 man squad.

I presume if the need arises madigan will drop back to 15 with Reid at 10. actually didnt reid play a few games at 15 for the under 20s or did i dream that?

Would have loved to have seen those centres to stag. but i guess with madigan at 10 still being inexperiened, darcy outside him will offer a cool head.

The pack might be a bit callow but i think the backline is quality. A lot of very good strike runners and Reddan and Madigan both have a qulity passing game.

Hope the backrow can get stuck in at the breakdown and secure decent ball for us.

Yeah lads the game is on at 2 on RTE2.
Yeah I'd have liked to have seen Mcfadden and O'Malley too but understand that Darcy is in there for Madigan, makes sense I think.

In the pack the things I'm worried about are the overall drop of ballcarriers and leaders, no Heaslip, SOB or McL will take away a lot of grunt from our pack.
Hagan and Avuav'a could be the weak links.

Mickado wrote:The pack might be a bit callow but i think the backline is quality. A lot of very good strike runners and Reddan and Madigan both have a qulity passing game.

Hope the backrow can get stuck in at the breakdown and secure decent ball for us.

I think that will be key. If we can get decent ball we should win with the guys out wide that we have, but if we don't I wouldn't be too confident about us slogging a win out.

You reckon McFadden will place kick?

Yeah, i'd say he will. Has Madigan kicked at all this season? Apart from the drop goal conversion at the end of the Glasgow game. Don't think he has.

Fergus is reliable though, we should be ok there.

I'd say we should be, only thing I would be worried about is, that if he has an off day we don't really have a backup.

Madigan is pretty handy kicking from hand and he will run the backs pretty well too I'd say if he gets the space, he is really good at bringing them into the game.
Come to think of it I have a lot of confidence in Madigan with Leinster, never really noticed before, but I wouldn't be too worried if he was playing in one of our bigger games.

I would think McFadden would be the kicker for this game.

Once they are starters, the preference by Schmidt so far since he has arrived is;

Sexton
Nacewa
McFadden
Madigan
who knows (possibly Kearney at a push)

He doesn't like switching place kickers because of substitutions during a game either. A good tactic in my view.

Pete, I really agree with you there. He got some game time last year and looked a little shaky, in fact bar the first game of the season against Cardiff (where he secured the BP try with a solo effort) he looked like he would be behind McKinley in the pecking order. But to be fair to him, this season he’s grabbed his opportunity well and I wouldn’t be at all nervous if he had to step into a big game, providing we gave him the protection that he needs (i.e. not in a scratch team).

Band, that’s no bad tactic I reckon.

Mickado wrote:Pete, I really agree with you there. He got some game time last year and looked a little shaky, in fact bar the first game of the season against Cardiff (where he secured the BP try with a solo effort) he looked like he would be behind McKinley in the pecking order. But to be fair to him, this season he’s grabbed his opportunity well and I wouldn’t be at all nervous if he had to step into a big game, providing we gave him the protection that he needs (i.e. not in a scratch team).

Band, that’s no bad tactic I reckon.

He is turning into quite a classy operator, I'm loving how much he does dummy switches and at the pace he does them, like that lad full blown sprints with the ball in hand to the line, and with our backs running lines off him it creates a lot of space.
His game management has been the biggest improvement I think.

I think the same sort of thing can be said of Toner too. He really has put his foot down and tried to claim a starting Leinster spot. His lineout work gets all the credit but he has started putting in a much greater shift at the breakdown and in the loose he has become more effective at carrying and also now passes before contact, his defence is much and a much the same.

Been very impressed with the pair of them.

Couldn't ask for a better start.

14-3 leinster after 8 minutes. trevisos defense had been appalling so far.

Yeah they've both definitely improved. No doubt about it. So have Kearney and Fitzgerald actually. Hopefully improvements across the board like this will make up for the loss of Hines, O'Driscoll and Horgan.

Have to say though I'm still sceptical over whether Toner will ever be more than just a Pro12 standard player.

Good win today, though once again I was unimpressed by McFadden. His kicking was good of course, but he offers nothing in attack.. also D'Arcy as usual was just plain average. Better than he has been, but what does he offer Leinster/Ireland?

I was however very impressed with O'Malley, Carr and Fitz again. The 3 of them should definitely start for Leinster in my view, as they offer so much to their attack. Add Nacewa and Sexton to the party and you have one scary backline. This is how I think the backline should look, and something tells me many people will disagree with me for a few reasons!

9) Reddan
10) Sexton
11) Carr
12) O'Malley
13) Fitzgerald
14) Kearney
15) Nacewa

I think people will disagree with Kearney being move to wing, but I rate Nacewa higher and think Kearney will either have to adapt to wing, become a better fullback than Nacewa or get moved to the bench. I think people will also raise eyebrows once again at O'Malley at 12 (he moved there when Macken came on), the lack of McFadden (who I think would be better on the bench as a utility sub), and the general midfield. This is with D'Arcy being dropped and BOD injured in mind.

Kearney is attacking much better from fullback recently. Hes improved a lot. And he's not a very good winger. I'd leave him there and play Nacewa on the wing as long as Horgan is injured. For the Heineken Cup

09. Boss/Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden/D'arcy
13. O'Malley
14. Nacewa
15. Kearney

D'Arcy or McFadden don't really cut it I think.. neither are great imo.

And I think Carr should start.

I'd be pretty cool with that backline if you switch O'Malley and Fitzgerald around. The way Schmidt had it during the world cup basically.

I Think O'Malley is much better at 13 and that Fitz while not a perfect 12 is more suiteable there in terms of how he plays in confined spaces and also his tackling technique.

Yeah I'd start Carr now too he's looking good and McFadden is not looking as hot

Had to watch the match yesterday as I was out and about on Saturday. Thought Fitz, Carr, O’Malley and Healy were class. McFadden was very quiet (apart from kicking 100%) but he was out of position, he can do a job on the wing, but he’s no winger.

Cardiff at home on Friday now, I’d really love to see Sexton-McFadden-O’Malley at 10-12-13 this time round, and I see it as a possibility given Schmidt’s rotation policy.

A great result for Leinster. I was expecting the losing bonus point but after the gift of a start, they managed 4 points and to prevent a lbp for treviso which might help connacht in the league table at the end of the season.

On the performance levels, I think it was a mixed bag. 10-15 played well both as individuals and as a unit. Some of the pack stood up but I didn't feel they played well as a unit.

Sounds like O'Malley had a good game again?

Could he be a bolter for the 6N? Cave had a bit of a nightmare on Friday and Spence, Barnes and McFadden aren't starting at 13, with Earls out surely O'Malley is in the driving seat?

I think McFadden would get picked over O'Malley at 13 in the 6 nations tbh, Rodders.. which would be very annoying.

A lot of rugby to be played between now and February Rodders.

He did play well though, his try was a really classy midfeilders try. He took a great line and cut against the flow of the ball, totally wrong footed the defender and then showed serious speed to beat the fullback.

At the moment I’m just hoping he can keep this form up for the HC double header, 6nations is a long way away in my head!

I think it comes down to the next 3 games. If O'Malley keeps hold of the 13 jersey for Leinster for both Friday against the Blues and then both Bath games, I expect him to kick on and hold the jersey till BOD returns.

However if McFadden gets the 13 jersey for any of these 3 games EOM will be nudged back the pecking order at Leinster and won't get run in the jersey to really have his hand up for the 6Ns lottery.

I hope EOM gets these next few games, great skillset and while he isn't the typical huge centre everyone is looking for, so far in any game he has played in he has handled those big bruising centres quite well. If people were written off purely because of size you would never see a shane williams gracing a field. I'm not saying EOM is or ever will be anywhere near the ickle williams, I just hate when people get fixated on bulk.

Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog afterall.

He managed Rougerie very well away to ASM last year!

EOM played really well all game it wasn't just his try that he took well but he defended brilliantly apart from one instance in the last 3 minutes or so but still got back to make the tackle in the end. He also showed better distribution that I'd seen from him before.

Fitzgerald again looked really good. Couple of good half breaks, good defence when needed and joined the line at the right times. SHowed good hands throughout the game too.

Carr was awesome he just looked so hungry. Again another who's defence has been questioned but he didn't miss a tackle all game. He must have beaten 10 defenders or so as well got front foot ball from nothing.

Pack was a bit disappointing at times, our scrum looked dodge at points. Lineout was awesome big Dev stealing at least 2 and again looking better in the loose, saw him making some large hits too.

Hagan was good in the loose but didn't do so great in the scrums. Healy was immense.

Cronins lineout throwing was much better than it has been also.
Backrow was the main disappointment I felt with only Avuav'a really showing up.

I'd be game for a Sexton-McFadden-O'Malley midfield. Very game.

Still want to see O'Malley at 12 tbh! His defence was very good and even when he was handed off at the end he jumped straight back up and got him straight down. His distribution was amazing, his strength was amazing, he creates space for others and is always eyeing the gaps. Can't wait to see more from him and hope McFadden isn't chosen over him for both Leinster and Ireland.

Love the enthusiasm Rory.
Still don't get why you want him at 12 but hey each to their own I guess he is remarkably strong for such a small guy isn't he? Stayed on his feet really well in some tackles and beat off a fair few handoffs from pretty big lads.

Is he that small? I mean compared to D'arcy, BOD and McFadden? He looks a similar size to O'Driscoll when he 1st appeared? I'd imagine size could become an issue but I'm not sure anymore so than for his colleagues.

I haven't checked the stats but he does look very slight. He doesn't miss many tackles anyways

According to his Leinster profile he's 5ft10 and 13st 11lbs

Mickado wrote:According to his Leinster profile he's 5ft10 and 13st 11lbs

Well thats bigger than BOD when he was 22 but I suppose the game has moved on again since then and players are even bigger.

He's only half a stone lighter than McFadden or Earls so if he could get up to about 14.5 stone or just under without losing speed then he'd be a better option than both.

McFadden is a bit of an anomoly in that sense, he is very fast probably only slower than Carr and Kearney in our entire squad, but he is also the strongest back we have, he lifts more than any other back on a number of different exercises apparently.

I am pretty happy with O'Malley's physique as long as he keeps his defensive stats the way they are at the moment and his offense isn't hampered by it either. I hope he won't flounder at international level (if he makes it there) due to his size. He has taken on big men though

One thing I’ve noticed about him though is that all of his bulk seems to be above his waist.

He’s a wirey runner with skinny legs (finally, a fellow chicken legged freak makes it!) but he’s got the bulk in the upper body to put in some good tackles.
That’s why I think McFadden at 12 would be a good foil for him, he’s got his world famous low CoG which can help him make yards, and O’Malley is the mazey runner outside making the breaks.

I like that midfield Mick I must say. In all fairness McF does do really well in contact he has very good leg drive. He is a good kicking option also. We wouldn't need to worry about him shooting out of the line either as much at 12. Would Fitz be in with a chance of the 12 jersey?

Personally I think Fitz should be kept in the back 3 indefinitely now. He’s really coming back into some good form there (the offload for Carr’s try was lovely, completely wrong footed the defender). But I still don’t think he’s a center. I just don’t see it, he’s does well with space in front of him, but he can’t create it for himself.

Hmm I'm not convinced by McFadden at all but hey ho thats another debate.

In terms of O'Malley I'd say if hes good enough he's big enough. He's a wee bit small but like I say if he added another few pounds he'd be as big as the other players we have anyway.

In terms of defence its not just about bring players down but taking the contact on your own terms, stopping players on the gainline and getting over the gainline in attack. If he can do this, his size isn't an issue but he has to be able to compete and get the better of the likes of Tuilagi and Nonu.

I agree with you re: the gainline thing. I think that clouds a lot of peoples perceptions of defence, ROG being a huge case in point on that one.

He stood up to Rougerie and didn't lose much ground, Graeme Morrisson isn't small either.

At some stage in the next 4-5 years, coaches are going to spot that all centres are big straight line runners looking for contact and crash ball lines. Some bright spark will put an average sized player in the centre with a good side step and quick acceleration. He will pick out the gaps between oversized centres and will become a revelation. Because he has so much success, every other coach will put their oversized players on diets to make compete.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Love the enthusiasm Rory.
Still don't get why you want him at 12 but hey each to their own I guess he is remarkably strong for such a small guy isn't he? Stayed on his feet really well in some tackles and beat off a fair few handoffs from pretty big lads.

Yeah I know it is a strange call.. I guess I just see his skills being used best there. I am most excited to see him progress, and I think we have few 12s right now, but many 13s. I was also very interested in seeing what his distribution skills were like over the weekend, and when I saw him I was very impressed with that. Also with his strength, his eye for gaps, his ability to scatter defences and then offload.. just lots of skills that remind me of a young D'Arcy/BOD. He isn't much smaller than either of those, or McFadden. I just think he will be an awesome player. Seeing him paired with the likes of Spence makes me very excited for the future!

thebandwagonsociety wrote:At some stage in the next 4-5 years, coaches are going to spot that all centres are big straight line runners looking for contact and crash ball lines. .

Thats just it Rory they aren't. They are big powerful clever players who can run into space or take contact when that is the best option. They know when to offload and when to recycle. The day for one dimensional crash ball centres is over but inside centres more than ever need the size to power over the gainline and win the contact.

The big difference now is that defences have to stand deeper due to the law changes meaning the best way over the gainline is the 12 channel as opposed to out wide. SBW, Nonu and Roberts are the perfect inside centres in the modern game. For a smaller player to excel in that role now they have to be exceptional.

Eddies O'Sullivan wrote a really good article about it a while back.