Controversial Fantasy Fight Picks

First topic message reminder :

Saw this elsewhere and seemed like a good idea.

Basically you pick someone who you think would be able to upset a superior boxer. The idea is you can justify it based on styles/precedents and you should try and be as controversial as possible.

Good idea if we stick to roughly similar eras I think.

I'll start. I think Forrest gives Mayweather nightmares with his reach, jab and power.

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

azania wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:

Manos is saying pretty much what I am saying (more eloquently obviously). You dont disagree with him.

Because Manos accepts other peoples points and can debate properly. You on the other hand seem to struggle with the concept.

Windy, and others, say no heavyweight has gone undefeated in arguably weaker eras.. Other than Marciano. To label him as a "club fighter" is pretty laughable to be honest, club fighters don't go undefeated when you go up against the likes of Moore, Charles and co even if they were a few % under where they were at at their 'absolute' (please note that word, as you think there's only peak or totally shot) peak.

Again, you won't address the above point so don't know why i bothered writing it. I'm just expecting some immature little barb about "being at school, talk to girls" or something equally pathetic.

What about Rocky have I not accepted? And what arguments have I not accepted? I have praised Rocky but maintain that he was made for Tyson. Hence one round blowout.

Coxy I adress every point of every post directed at me. What weaker eras have there been than Rocky's era?

Mid 1980s
Current

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

You see it depends on what you mean and the way you look at it, I don't like changing his stats or anything when assessing these kinds of things and all he's saying is what his stats are to be fair to him, and he would be regarded as a cruiser going on that.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

You see it depends on what you mean and the way you look at it, I don't like changing his stats or anything when assessing these kinds of things and all he's saying is what his stats are to be fair to him, and he would be regarded as a cruiser going on that.

Don't be fair to him.

Saying that Marciano would be a crusier "contender" is ludicrous.

Seriously suggesting that Marciano wouldn't beat Huck (hopeless), or Lebedev (outboxed at times by RJJ on a zimmerframe) and Hernandez that 26 fight veteran, run over by Big Truck Braithwaite in just 3 rounds.

That is frankly nonsense. Marciano could beat Braithwaite and Huck on the same night.

In an era where Enzo Macarinelli is a champion at cruiser to say the Rock would be a contender is beyond ludicrous and Azania in case you were wondering it is comments like this that ensure you attract a vitriol manos avoids. Does not even bear thinking about what Marciano would do to Enzo Mac, would make the Frenkel KO look like something off CBBC

AlexHuckerby wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

You see it depends on what you mean and the way you look at it, I don't like changing his stats or anything when assessing these kinds of things and all he's saying is what his stats are to be fair to him, and he would be regarded as a cruiser going on that.

Were azania so inclined as to debate boxing issues at a boxing forum I would happily engage him.

However, in the moment he sees his argument threatened, he immediately shifts the goalposts and seeks refuge in creatine potions and rowing machines. I have merely highlighted the point that we can all argue from that perspective if he insists upon it.

Personally, I'd prefer to discuss boxing.

Does not even bear thinking about what Marciano would do to Enzo Mac

But Rowley, would Enzo's modern day honed nutrion enhanced man boobs provide a distraction for the Rock?

rowley wrote:In an era where Enzo Macarinelli is a champion at cruiser to say the Rock would be a contender is beyond ludicrous and Azania in case you were wondering it is comments like this that ensure you attract a vitriol manos avoids. Does not even bear thinking about what Marciano would do to Enzo Mac, would make the Frenkel KO look like something off CBBC

Marciano would most certainly annihilate the poor Cruiserweight competition of today, that is near enough a Young_Towzer like - FACT!

rowley wrote:In an era where Enzo Macarinelli is a champion at cruiser to say the Rock would be a contender is beyond ludicrous and Azania in case you were wondering it is comments like this that ensure you attract a vitriol manos avoids. Does not even bear thinking about what Marciano would do to Enzo Mac, would make the Frenkel KO look like something off CBBC

The unfortunate thing now is the proliferation of so called world champions just because they hold a belt. Half of them couldn't even carry thir own jockstraps.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

What? Now you are applying my arguments about human growth and improvements. But one thing that wouldn't apply is skill. Rocky was very limited. People would have worked him out much earlier. Some dude above or previous page said he was made of steel. The hype starts all over again. A man of steel decked by a LHW.

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:In an era where Enzo Macarinelli is a champion at cruiser to say the Rock would be a contender is beyond ludicrous and Azania in case you were wondering it is comments like this that ensure you attract a vitriol manos avoids. Does not even bear thinking about what Marciano would do to Enzo Mac, would make the Frenkel KO look like something off CBBC

The unfortunate thing now is the proliferation of so called world champions just because they hold a belt. Half of them couldn't even carry thir own jockstraps.

Why did you say then in todays era Marciano would be a cruiser contender?

coxy0001 wrote:

azania wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:

Manos is saying pretty much what I am saying (more eloquently obviously). You dont disagree with him.

Because Manos accepts other peoples points and can debate properly. You on the other hand seem to struggle with the concept.

Windy, and others, say no heavyweight has gone undefeated in arguably weaker eras.. Other than Marciano. To label him as a "club fighter" is pretty laughable to be honest, club fighters don't go undefeated when you go up against the likes of Moore, Charles and co even if they were a few % under where they were at at their 'absolute' (please note that word, as you think there's only peak or totally shot) peak.

Again, you won't address the above point so don't know why i bothered writing it. I'm just expecting some immature little barb about "being at school, talk to girls" or something equally pathetic.

What about Rocky have I not accepted? And what arguments have I not accepted? I have praised Rocky but maintain that he was made for Tyson. Hence one round blowout.

Coxy I adress every point of every post directed at me. What weaker eras have there been than Rocky's era?

Mid 1980s
Current

I disagree totally.

oxring wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

You see it depends on what you mean and the way you look at it, I don't like changing his stats or anything when assessing these kinds of things and all he's saying is what his stats are to be fair to him, and he would be regarded as a cruiser going on that.

Don't be fair to him.

Saying that Marciano would be a crusier "contender" is ludicrous.

Seriously suggesting that Marciano wouldn't beat Huck (hopeless), or Lebedev (outboxed at times by RJJ on a zimmerframe) and Hernandez that 26 fight veteran, run over by Big Truck Braithwaite in just 3 rounds.

That is frankly nonsense. Marciano could beat Braithwaite and Huck on the same night.

The hype continues. He struggled against washed up greats. Today his prescious undefeated record would have been brutalised out of him much earlier in his career. I doubt if he would have been a contender as not many would have invested in him because the business of boxing today is very different.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

What? Now you are applying my arguments about human growth and improvements. But one thing that wouldn't apply is skill. Rocky was very limited. People would have worked him out much earlier. Some dude above or previous page said he was made of steel. The hype starts all over again. A man of steel decked by a LHW.

Oh, I agree. Utterly ludicrous.

Why, it's almost as though Ali had been decked by Henry Cooper.

HumanWindmill wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

You see it depends on what you mean and the way you look at it, I don't like changing his stats or anything when assessing these kinds of things and all he's saying is what his stats are to be fair to him, and he would be regarded as a cruiser going on that.

Were azania so inclined as to debate boxing issues at a boxing forum I would happily engage him.

However, in the moment he sees his argument threatened, he immediately shifts the goalposts and seeks refuge in creatine potions and rowing machines. I have merely highlighted the point that we can all argue from that perspective if he insists upon it.

Personally, I'd prefer to discuss boxing.

Incorrect windy. You jumped on my CW contender comment and decided to debate that. You even highlighted it. I haven't shifted the focus of the debate old man.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

What? Now you are applying my arguments about human growth and improvements. But one thing that wouldn't apply is skill. Rocky was very limited. People would have worked him out much earlier. Some dude above or previous page said he was made of steel. The hype starts all over again. A man of steel decked by a LHW.

Oh, I agree. Utterly ludicrous.

Why, it's almost as though Ali had been decked by Henry Cooper.

A 185lb Cooper as well, don't forget that Windy. Wasn't that what Marciano weighed?

Well no one is saying that Ali was a man of steel.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

rowley wrote:In an era where Enzo Macarinelli is a champion at cruiser to say the Rock would be a contender is beyond ludicrous and Azania in case you were wondering it is comments like this that ensure you attract a vitriol manos avoids. Does not even bear thinking about what Marciano would do to Enzo Mac, would make the Frenkel KO look like something off CBBC

Marciano would most certainly annihilate the poor Cruiserweight competition of today, that is near enough a Young_Towzer like - FACT!

He wouldn't be undefeated.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

You see it depends on what you mean and the way you look at it, I don't like changing his stats or anything when assessing these kinds of things and all he's saying is what his stats are to be fair to him, and he would be regarded as a cruiser going on that.

Were azania so inclined as to debate boxing issues at a boxing forum I would happily engage him.

However, in the moment he sees his argument threatened, he immediately shifts the goalposts and seeks refuge in creatine potions and rowing machines. I have merely highlighted the point that we can all argue from that perspective if he insists upon it.

Personally, I'd prefer to discuss boxing.

Incorrect windy. You jumped on my CW contender comment and decided to debate that. You even highlighted it. I haven't shifted the focus of the debate old man.

Now you are being plain dishonest as well as illogical.

You had already resurrected your ridiculous pharmaceutical argument before my comments about the cruiserweight issue.

If you're going to be illogical and back it up with bare faced lies then this debate has no future, as far as I'm concerned.

Have a nice era.

azania wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

rowley wrote:In an era where Enzo Macarinelli is a champion at cruiser to say the Rock would be a contender is beyond ludicrous and Azania in case you were wondering it is comments like this that ensure you attract a vitriol manos avoids. Does not even bear thinking about what Marciano would do to Enzo Mac, would make the Frenkel KO look like something off CBBC

Marciano would most certainly annihilate the poor Cruiserweight competition of today, that is near enough a Young_Towzer like - FACT!

He wouldn't be undefeated.

Love sacks.

azania wrote:Well no one is saying that Ali was a man of steel.

Buffoon of a remark.

Everybody, even Ali's biggest critics, hugely admire his chin, recuperative powers and overall durability.

Seriously, I'm out of here while I still have a semblance of sanity and patience. Francis of Assisi couldn't survive this assault on his nervous system.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

You see it depends on what you mean and the way you look at it, I don't like changing his stats or anything when assessing these kinds of things and all he's saying is what his stats are to be fair to him, and he would be regarded as a cruiser going on that.

Were azania so inclined as to debate boxing issues at a boxing forum I would happily engage him.

However, in the moment he sees his argument threatened, he immediately shifts the goalposts and seeks refuge in creatine potions and rowing machines. I have merely highlighted the point that we can all argue from that perspective if he insists upon it.

Personally, I'd prefer to discuss boxing.

Incorrect windy. You jumped on my CW contender comment and decided to debate that. You even highlighted it. I haven't shifted the focus of the debate old man.

Now you are being plain dishonest as well as illogical.

You had already resurrected your ridiculous pharmaceutical argument before my comments about the cruiserweight issue.

If you're going to be illogical and back it up with bare faced lies then this debate has no future, as far as I'm concerned.

Have a nice era.

Nope. I raised that to make a point when the issue of different eras was raised. I've been accused of not responding fully to posts and now when I respond fully I get accused of shifting the debate.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:As much as his views on Marciano / many other pre-sixties fighters rile me, Azania's views aren't ban-worthy. Lads, why not just boycott any article / thread in which Azania starts to bang his drum in a desperate plea for attention? He'll get bored if nobody rises to the bait. If he posts a comment akin to 'Marciano would be brutalised by Pele Reid', just leave him be and he'll soon toddle off.

When opinions become ban worthy then it will be pointless posting.

Please feel free for anyone to ignore/boycott my posts. I for one am not wumming or whatever when it comes to Rocky. I do believe it is an over-rated fighter whose achievements have bene inflated to make him appear a man of steel as alluded above.

In any othe rera Rocky would be a contender. Today he would be a cruiser contender.

Selective nonsense.

According to growth statistics, if Marciano had been born in the mid sixties he would be 6ft.0ins. and 195lb., today, which is pretty much the same size as Earnie Shavers. Throw in your miraculous potions and rowing machines, application of elastic bands to vital regions, chewing on liquorice root seven point three times per day and massages with a coconut mat and you can add another twenty odd pounds, à la Holyfield. If you're going to invoke science, at least do so in a scientific manner.

A snarling, fired up, 215lb. Marciano would eat today's fat boys between meals.

You see it depends on what you mean and the way you look at it, I don't like changing his stats or anything when assessing these kinds of things and all he's saying is what his stats are to be fair to him, and he would be regarded as a cruiser going on that.

Were azania so inclined as to debate boxing issues at a boxing forum I would happily engage him.

However, in the moment he sees his argument threatened, he immediately shifts the goalposts and seeks refuge in creatine potions and rowing machines. I have merely highlighted the point that we can all argue from that perspective if he insists upon it.

Personally, I'd prefer to discuss boxing.

Incorrect windy. You jumped on my CW contender comment and decided to debate that. You even highlighted it. I haven't shifted the focus of the debate old man.

Now you are being plain dishonest as well as illogical.

You had already resurrected your ridiculous pharmaceutical argument before my comments about the cruiserweight issue.

If you're going to be illogical and back it up with bare faced lies then this debate has no future, as far as I'm concerned.

Have a nice era.

Nope. I raised that to make a point when the issue of different eras was raised. I've been accused of not responding fully to posts and now when I respond fully I get accused of shifting the debate.

I don't give a rat's furry ass why you raised it, YOU RAISED IT. As such, your previous claim is dishonest. Sod it, no it isn't, it's a DOWNRIGHT LIE.

I'm off. Argue with yourself. I'd venture that you have enough personalities to spare.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:Well no one is saying that Ali was a man of steel.

Buffoon of a remark.

Everybody, even Ali's biggest critics, hugely admire his chin, recuperative powers and overall durability.

Seriously, I'm out of here while I still have a semblance of sanity and patience. Francis of Assisi couldn't survive this assault on his nervous system.

Yes ali had a strong chin. The way Rocky is often portrayed is as if he is impervious to pain and other boxers punches. My point is that he could be decked and he was. As JabMachine said on the previous page, he was a man of steel.

He wasn't.

By the beard of the prophet, you guys are testing my patience. I was asked a queston in which my answer was posted. It contained aspects I percieve to be pertinent to my point. Now you are trying to tell me what points to post and in what context? Jeez. Are you on a wind up?

azania wrote:Jeez. Are you on a wind up?

Ladies and Gents, I would like to present to you........drum roll please...........................comment of 2011!!

Yes ali had a strong chin. The way Rocky is often portrayed is as if he is impervious to pain and other boxers punches. My point is that he could be decked and he was. As JabMachine said on the previous page, he was a man of steel.

He wasn't. .

Az, do you take everything that anyvbody says on such strict literal terms? It was hyperbole and not out of sync with anything I've ever seen said about a huge number of fighters past and present. Just because you have a huge racist chip on your shoulder about Marciano doesn't mean that you can expect everybody else to ignore logic, reason and the general rules of debate.

Got to hand it to you Az you have an uncanny ability to be able to bring out the worst in people. Is this something you've practiced or is does it all just come naturally?

Trott, i've only ever known one poster to cause Windy to lose it and that was D4. Az is in exalted company in that respect.

Marciano wasn't decked by a LHW.

Undefeated. Walked through punches. You don't think he was made of steel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqM_X01BnfA

I agree with you saying he was limited in terms of skill but to even say he's an over rated club fighter is laughable. The guy got hit hard, moved forward and hit back harder. If you think someone like Audley Harrison with "modern science" would beat The Rock, you're mental.

JabMachine wrote:Marciano wasn't decked by a LHW.

Undefeated. Walked through punches. You don't think he was made of steel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqM_X01BnfA

I agree with you saying he was limited in terms of skill but to even say he's an over rated club fighter is laughable. The guy got hit hard, moved forward and hit back harder. If you think someone like Audley Harrison with "modern science" would beat The Rock, you're mental.

Where have I even mentioned Harrison?

superflyweight wrote:

Yes ali had a strong chin. The way Rocky is often portrayed is as if he is impervious to pain and other boxers punches. My point is that he could be decked and he was. As JabMachine said on the previous page, he was a man of steel.

He wasn't. .

Az, do you take everything that anyvbody says on such strict literal terms? It was hyperbole and not out of sync with anything I've ever seen said about a huge number of fighters past and present. Just because you have a huge racist chip on your shoulder about Marciano doesn't mean that you can expect everybody else to ignore logic, reason and the general rules of debate.

I realise that super. And I'm glad you mentioned the hyperbole of Rocky. Its gathering pace.

And you say my criticism of Rocky is based on his colour. So explain how I appreciate Dempsey and have described Johnson as having flawed fundermentals? Please answer.

I have stated and stand by my opinion that the hype of Rocky is mainly because of his ethnicity. America has been searching long and hard for its next white hope and because they couldn't get one they decided to hype up rocky. You will find that there is not a single racist DNA in my body.

The facts are this: Rocky was undefeated. 2) He fought and beat 4 ATG.. 3) Those ATGs were past their prime. Others include his sturdy chin, will to win, determination, heart, brute strength. All fine and good. But those attributes are within most top tier boxers and second tiers also (eperhaps not the chin and punch power). His shortcommings are overwhelming and easily exploited by ost top tier fighters of previous generations and post Rocky generations.

Do a H2H with Rocky against all recognised HW chanps that came after him (not talking belt holders here so discount the likes of haye, Dimitrenko or whoever). In my opinion the only one he would have a reasonable chance of beating would be Patterson and no-one else.

Is that being racist? If so, please explain why.

coxy0001 wrote:Trott, i've only ever known one poster to cause Windy to lose it and that was D4. Az is in exalted company in that respect.

Shoo

trottb wrote:Got to hand it to you Az you have an uncanny ability to be able to bring out the worst in people. Is this something you've practiced or is does it all just come naturally?

They want me to admit Rocky was good. Cant be done mate.

JabMachine wrote:Marciano wasn't decked by a LHW.

Undefeated. Walked through punches. You don't think he was made of steel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqM_X01BnfA

I agree with you saying he was limited in terms of skill but to even say he's an over rated club fighter is laughable. The guy got hit hard, moved forward and hit back harder. If you think someone like Audley Harrison with "modern science" would beat The Rock, you're mental.

Archie Moore was a LHW. Decked rocky in round 1. If you are going to debate at least come with some knowledge please

azania wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Trott, i've only ever known one poster to cause Windy to lose it and that was D4. Az is in exalted company in that respect.

Shoo

Not until you say something sensible. I may be waiting some time though.

Decked is an incorrect term. Who won the fight?

What you mean is "knocked down by a LHW"

My understanding of the term "decked" is to have lost the fight.

If you're going to debate, at least stop trying to jump on the literal sense of every word because your basic argument is flawed

By your logic - and this is stated by you here:

azania wrote:The facts are this: Rocky was undefeated. 2) He fought and beat 4 ATG.. 3) Those ATGs were past their prime. Others include his sturdy chin, will to win, determination, heart, brute strength. All fine and good. But those attributes are within most top tier boxers and second tiers also (eperhaps not the chin and punch power). His shortcommings are overwhelming and easily exploited by ost top tier fighters of previous generations and post Rocky generations.

You claim that Rocky Marciano had a champions mentality - which is exactly what that is - as I bolded, and you then go on to claim that these traits are in most top tier boxers? Sorry, don't agree that anyone in the last 20 years bar Gatti had the heart that The Rock had.

How about Juilian Jackson v Haglar?

azania wrote:By the beard of the prophet, you guys are testing my patience.

Your patience.

The fish has been boned and the shark has been jumped.

In the past month alone, you have declared:

1. Sibson beats Greb.
2. Jack Johnson had flawed fundamentals
3. If Rocky Marciano were around today and fighting at cruiserweight, he wouldn't retire undefeated.

Are you trying to stretch the bounds of credulity with every passing statement? Because creduliy has been stretched and is now past breaking point.

Who in the name of all that is merciful beats Rocky in the current cruiser scene? In the last 10 years, great champions like Maccarinelli, Braithwaite and, lest we forget, the indomitable Johnny "the Entertainer" Nelson have all plied their merry trade in this dross-hole of a division - and you really believe that Rocky would be beaten by the likes of these? Who at cruiser has his number?

You've hit 3 - lets see if you can make for 5 "just plain wrong" statements of the day/week/month/year/century.

coxy0001 wrote:

azania wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Trott, i've only ever known one poster to cause Windy to lose it and that was D4. Az is in exalted company in that respect.

Shoo

Not until you say something sensible. I may be waiting some time though.

You mean to agree Rocky was as good as you guys claim him to be? You mean you will continue pestering me until I say that?

OK. here goes. Just for you. Rocky was great. The best ever.

Now stop pestering me.

Sibson beats Greb

After hours of councelling and being hypnotised you've just bought back a very painful memory for me Oxy.

I have this vision of wanting to tie Az to a chair with his eye lids stapled open, making him watch hour after hour of footage of guys like Marciano, Wilde, Moore and co.

It's either that or 10 weeks of waterboarding. Or maybe even electric shocks to the testicles

You see this is where it gets silly because nobody on here, and I do mean nobody is claiming Rocky is the best ever, in fact nobody is claiming he is the best heavyweight ever. All anyone is claiming is however you look at it he is a top ten heavy of all time, and deservedly so.

As I have tried to get over countless times you can make all the noises you want about his opponents being past it, blown up light heavies, over rated or a combination of any or all of the above, but the same can be said of all but perhaps two heavyweights in history so if on these criteria Marciano should be cast forever out of the top ten then so should nearly every champion ever, although a top ten would look pretty odd with only two fighters in it.

JabMachine wrote:Decked is an incorrect term. Who won the fight?

What you mean is "knocked down by a LHW"

My understanding of the term "decked" is to have lost the fight.

If you're going to debate, at least stop trying to jump on the literal sense of every word because your basic argument is flawed

By your logic - and this is stated by you here:

azania wrote:The facts are this: Rocky was undefeated. 2) He fought and beat 4 ATG.. 3) Those ATGs were past their prime. Others include his sturdy chin, will to win, determination, heart, brute strength. All fine and good. But those attributes are within most top tier boxers and second tiers also (eperhaps not the chin and punch power). His shortcommings are overwhelming and easily exploited by ost top tier fighters of previous generations and post Rocky generations.

You claim that Rocky Marciano had a champions mentality - which is exactly what that is - as I bolded, and you then go on to claim that these traits are in most top tier boxers? Sorry, don't agree that anyone in the last 20 years bar Gatti had the heart that The Rock had.

Decked meaning hitting the floow. He was decked by a LHW.

And how good was Gatti. Actually forget it.

Hagler beats 7 shades of **** out of Jackson

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:By the beard of the prophet, you guys are testing my patience.

Your patience.

The fish has been boned and the shark has been jumped.

In the past month alone, you have declared:

1. Sibson beats Greb.
2. Jack Johnson had flawed fundamentals
3. If Rocky Marciano were around today and fighting at cruiserweight, he wouldn't retire undefeated.

Are you trying to stretch the bounds of credulity with every passing statement? Because creduliy has been stretched and is now past breaking point.

Who in the name of all that is merciful beats Rocky in the current cruiser scene? In the last 10 years, great champions like Maccarinelli, Braithwaite and, lest we forget, the indomitable Johnny "the Entertainer" Nelson have all plied their merry trade in this dross-hole of a division - and you really believe that Rocky would be beaten by the likes of these? Who at cruiser has his number?

You've hit 3 - lets see if you can make for 5 "just plain wrong" statements of the day/week/month/year/century.

I'll explain point 3. In today's game, boxers are carefully matched. When Rocky's manager sees his skill level, he would over-match him at an early stage of his career. Plus when he stepped up, he would be mullered. FACT!

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:How about Juilian Jackson v Haglar?

And people like you call me a wum!!!!

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:By the beard of the prophet, you guys are testing my patience.

Your patience.

The fish has been boned and the shark has been jumped.

In the past month alone, you have declared:

1. Sibson beats Greb.
2. Jack Johnson had flawed fundamentals
3. If Rocky Marciano were around today and fighting at cruiserweight, he wouldn't retire undefeated.

Are you trying to stretch the bounds of credulity with every passing statement? Because creduliy has been stretched and is now past breaking point.

Who in the name of all that is merciful beats Rocky in the current cruiser scene? In the last 10 years, great champions like Maccarinelli, Braithwaite and, lest we forget, the indomitable Johnny "the Entertainer" Nelson have all plied their merry trade in this dross-hole of a division - and you really believe that Rocky would be beaten by the likes of these? Who at cruiser has his number?

You've hit 3 - lets see if you can make for 5 "just plain wrong" statements of the day/week/month/year/century.

I'll explain point 3. In today's game, boxers are carefully matched. When Rocky's manager sees his skill level, he would over-match him at an early stage of his career. Plus when he stepped up, he would be mullered. FACT!

Right. Mullered by who, Az? By Huck? By Lebedev? Hernandez? Cunningham? Wlodarczyk? Palacios?

Are you claiming Gatti didn't have a determination and will to win? An iron chin and never say die mentality?

Do you watch boxing?

Most boxers hit the floor in their career, so being hit - hard by someone around 180 - 200 lbs and hitting the floor is something of a moot point.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:By the beard of the prophet, you guys are testing my patience.

Your patience.

The fish has been boned and the shark has been jumped.

In the past month alone, you have declared:

1. Sibson beats Greb.
2. Jack Johnson had flawed fundamentals
3. If Rocky Marciano were around today and fighting at cruiserweight, he wouldn't retire undefeated.

Are you trying to stretch the bounds of credulity with every passing statement? Because creduliy has been stretched and is now past breaking point.

Who in the name of all that is merciful beats Rocky in the current cruiser scene? In the last 10 years, great champions like Maccarinelli, Braithwaite and, lest we forget, the indomitable Johnny "the Entertainer" Nelson have all plied their merry trade in this dross-hole of a division - and you really believe that Rocky would be beaten by the likes of these? Who at cruiser has his number?

You've hit 3 - lets see if you can make for 5 "just plain wrong" statements of the day/week/month/year/century.

I'll explain point 3. In today's game, boxers are carefully matched. When Rocky's manager sees his skill level, he would over-match him at an early stage of his career. Plus when he stepped up, he would be mullered. FACT!

Right. Mullered by who, Az? By Huck? By Lebedev? Hernandez? Cunningham? Wlodarczyk? Palacios?

Orlin Norris

My point is that Rocky would have been over-matched in his early career and his style would have been changed to attempt to make his less of a two left footed fighter. That would have damaged what made him (his somewhat ungainly and ugly style).

Plus at CW, De Leon, Warring, Cole and others would have been very good fights for Rocky. After all they were at his level.

JabMachine wrote:Are you claiming Gatti didn't have a determination and will to win? An iron chin and never say die mentality?

Do you watch boxing?

Most boxers hit the floor in their career, so being hit - hard by someone around 180 - 200 lbs and hitting the floor is something of a moot point.

JabMachine

Gatti (RIP) was a wonderfully exciting boxer. Now lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Good fighter and TV friendly. But that's about it. Floyd schooled him in an embarassing manner. I enjoyed watching him fight as he wore his heart on his sleeve. But determination and will to win dont overcome skill all the time, especially when that skilled boxer has determination and will to win.

I think you confuse face first fighters with determination and will to win. Rocky was a face first fighter and on par with Gatti although Gatti had more skill.