Is Nepotism Acceptable If It Involves Andy Murray?

Andy Murray's mother has just been appointed as Fed. cup captain by the LTA. She replaces the father of Murrays long term girlfriend. This after Leon Smith (probably the least experienced captain in history) was given the role of Davis Cup captain ahead of Greg Rusedski (the obvious candidate veteran of 43 rubbers). Its accepted that Smith got the job because of his links with Murray.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jonathanoverend/2010/04/way_back_in_a_time.html

Murray himself is becoming increasingly vocal about the runnings of the LTA, Davis Cup etc. One of his latest outbursts was about LTA funding for players over 18. Does his brother Jamie recieve funding? He is a little over 18.

From the Times (PPV) after the recent appointment of Judy (Murray's mother)

a single family have never had a firmer stranglehold on the top flight of British tennis than the Murrays do.

I know this may be difficult for Murray fans but try and be inpartial. Is Nepotism a good thing. Once it is installed it is difficult to shake off. How would you feel personally if you were a more qualified candidate being overlooked? Is it good for the LTA to be bound by the views of one family?

Some relevant points are brought up in this discussion "Is Nepotism Ever Acceptable?" Interesting that despite not being related to the LTA and Andy Murray it talks about the problem of tennis club parents stifling social mobility...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/10/social-mobility-debate-cohen-johnson

Hawkeye

Please name a better candidate for the captain of the fed cup team.

Judy is a former pro and also instrumental in the development of Andy and Jamie.

Also Greg never came out and said he wanted the DC captaincy it Henman for that matter.

Poor article

As far as I am aware none of Andy Murray's nephews have favorable positions in top flight British tennis.

ps Who made the appointment of Judy Murray and who made the appointment of Leon Smith. When was Nigel Sears appointed and when did Andy Murray start to date his daughter?

If you are going to make an accusation let's have a proper examination.

Translated:

"I don't like Andy Murray and I'm going to use any opportunity I can to articulate it"

Boring.

HE... would you be willing to apply for Fed Cup captain's position?

I think Judy is great and am glad she got the job. Her sons are her CV.

As for Greg, I wish he'd just keep working with juniors, that's where he seems to have success, and it's a great position for a real tennis enthusiast ,

The LTA is a toothless, back-slapping, gutless entity churning out cosy mediocrity rewarded for failure. The Fed Cup is almost an irrelevance. However, Murray is a product of the Barcelona Academy, not the LTA - if he thinks the LTA can be ran better from his external experience of how other countries do it then they should be all ears. Maybe his mother saw some good pointers from Spain also...it cant do much more damage than the woeful position the LTA is already in. Better nepotism than more people running the LTA who havent got a clue about what it takes to get to the highest level.

Isn't nepotism basically hiring family? Did Andy Murray just hire his Mum?
Isn't Rafa having Uncle Toni as a coach nepotism? Didn't Mirka used to be Fed's manager - isn't that also nepotism?

Maybe the appointments (Judy and Leon) are Roger Draper's appointments? Which might suggest Draper has a policy of appointing anyone related / connected to Andy Murray. Roger Draper's original policy was to appoint "superstar" coaches that had coached superstar tennis players. That policy turned out to be a waste of money.

It's a shame that Hawkeye uses up all his energies on what would seem to be wasteful and contrived prejudice rather than addressing potentially more valid and interesting issues.

Hawkeye is a her NS. She was known as VMP on 606. I see her Murray hating ways have followed her here.

Would like her views on Julius's comment. Because she must know something about hiring in the LTA than I do. NS is a very good source on information regarding LTA and British players. Maybe he can tell us who does the hiring in the LTA.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Isn't nepotism basically hiring family? Did Andy Murray just hire his Mum?
Isn't Rafa having Uncle Toni as a coach nepotism? Didn't Mirka used to be Fed's manager - isn't that also nepotism?

Nepotism

MEANING:

noun:

Favoritism shown to relatives and friends, especially in business or
political appointments.


ETYMOLOGY:

From Italian nepotismo, from Latin nepos (grandson, nephew). Ultimately from
the Indo-European root nepot- (grandson, nephew) that is also the source of
the words nephew and niece.


http://wordsmith.org/words/nepotism.html

The LTA (at the moment) isn't owned by Andy Murray. So no he didn't hire his mum.

Greg Rusedski was in the running for the role of Davis Cup captain


The LTA risks a backlash after ignoring the claims of the obvious candidate, Greg Rusedski, a veteran of 43 Davis Cup rubbers who was supported, if not by Murray, by a number of the other players.LTA player director Steven Martens, who made the appointment after consulting the British top 10, was at pains to point out he wasn't running a "popularity contest".A number of votes for Rusedski proved insufficient as Martens decided instead to go down the diplomatic route.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jonathanoverend/2010/04/way_back_in_a_time.html


Nore Staat.

I'm just asking questions but I'm all for a proper examination.


Laverfan.


Ha ha! Even if I was willing to apply for the job of Fed Captain I don't think I would get it as I'm not a relative or friend of Andy Murray...


Lydian.


I agree the LTA is a "toothless, back-slapping, gutless entity churning out cosy mediocrity rewarded for failure". But it also is in charge of a fair amount of money and therfore has a fair bit of power. Should they just be able to spend it as they want without any questions asked? Or should Andy Murray and his relatives and friends be given free riegn just because Murray himself has a good backhand?


I don't know all the answers but I'm certainly not scared of asking the questions. As the Times article said "a single family have never had a firmer stranglehold on the top flight of British tennis than the Murrays do". This is not a private buisiness that the Murrays have a firm stranglehold on but one that has access to a considerable amount of money (some of it public).

Hawkeye, If you actually take time to read the first article that you linked in this thread you will see Andy Murray's view on the appointment of the Davis Cup coach clearly stated. I'm also pretty certain that he was not asked who should lead the the womens Fed Cup team as he has many more important things to consider.

From an article in The Sunday Times today entitled "Murray keeps it in the family". If you want to read whole article its PPV. This is what Virginia Wade thinks about Murray's mums appointment. Her credentials as last British slam winner and long time member of a federation cup team add weight to her views.

Nobody is better versed in the demands of the Fed Cup than Virginia Wade, so
does she believe Judy Murray’s appointment as captain will lead to
improvement in a record that has seen the team absent from the elite world
group since 1993? “We would all like to say we hope so but we are moving
into the unknown,” said the former Wimbledon and US Open champion.


Wade got to know Murray when the pair held coaching clinics at Gleneagles
during the late 1990s. “Judy is incredibly enthusiastic, a very good
motivator and talks a lot of sense about tennis,” Wade continued. “But would
she have got this job if she wasn’t the mother of you-know- who?


“From my perception, the best way to get to grips with captaincy is to have
played with most of the team and to have first- hand knowledge of what the
opposition can produce on the court. One of the hardest things is getting a
spirit of togetherness, and women can be rather more catty in this respect
than the men.”



If Wade was so candid in an interview it makes me wonder what is being said behind the scenes. Murray appears to building up quite an impressive list of past (and present) British players who would not pass his stringent friends and family test...



I'm also curious to know what "the mother of you-know-who" is being paid for what is essentially a part time role and how the pay package was negotiated.

Once again, if someone else employs Judy Murray because she's the mother of Andy, that's not nepotism.
If the LTA appointed Leon Smith because they hoped he might get Murray to play Davis Cup, that's not nepotism.
Why not scrutinise/criticise those who made the appointments, if anyone?
Oh no, wait, if you did that you wouldn't get a chance to have a go at Murray!

Interesting that you want to know Judy Murray's pay package. I assume you've already asked similar questions about her predecessor, whose name wasn't Murray?

JuliusHMarx

Please read the definition of nepotism posted above. What do you think The Times meant by the headline "Murray keeps it in the family"? What do you think Virginia Wade meant when she said “But would she have got this job if she wasn’t the mother of you-know- who"? If Murray had hired his mother as his own coach under a private contract of couse it would be no such thing. But this involves other peoples money.

Yes I would like to know what the pay package was for Murray's mums predecessor. Its a good question and I hadn't thought of it. It would be interesting to see a comparrison.

I like how many act like I'm some sort of professional investigator. Making me double check sources and seek out difficult to find information not to mention thinking up all the questions. For the record I didn't actually interview Virginia Wade myself... although I would love to. In fact even just an informal tea with her would be fun. If anyone knows how to arrange this?

hawkeye, outside of arguing the ins and outs of the definition of nepotism I kind of see what you're trying ti say. The question though is WHY have they appointed her - you can only assume that we have a paucity of alternatives otherwise a good ex-tennis player would be a shoe-in. It would seem they had no choice but to go to Judy Murray. I think this appointment says more about the state of British tennis than anything else if this is really the best we can do. Can you imagine this happening in any other major country? It just underlines what a rut the LTA is in, and it starting to pay the price for lack of success in the women's game over the past 20 years...there's no-one around to do the job who could play at a half-decent level on the world scene!!

".there's no-one around to do the job who could play at a half-decent level on the world scene!!"

Best coaches have rarely been successful players. It's usually the other way round.I am convinced Judy is a great person for the job as she seems to be a very passionate person, something tennis in this country needs BADLY.

The reason for this article is sheer envy and hatred.

I wonder how Judy Murray got the job as national coach of Scotland when Andy was 13 years old - presumably he was pulling a few strings behind the scenes.
I bet he had a word with Elena Baltacha as well - 'Oi, hire my mum as coach or else'
Why else would they hire a woman who's never had anything to do with British ladies tennis before (er, apart form playing and coaching, obviously)? Clearly no-one wanted to hire her, but Andy forced them to!
I'm inclined to agree with NITB.

hawkeye wrote: What do you think Virginia Wade meant when she said “But would she have got this job if she wasn’t the mother of you-know- who"?

No, she 100% would not even have been a contender if she wasn't the mother of Andy Murray. But that's not because Andy Murray has any kind of influence over the appointment, its because by being Andy's mother/coach she is the only person in Britain over the last 15 years who's coaching has produced a world class tennis player.

Based on that, I couldn't think of anyone better to be working with the likes of Laura Robson and Heather Watson.

I have heard a rumour that the LTA is being merged with RFET in an effort to produce reasonable quality tennis players.

It has been named RATTLE.

Hi Hawkeye. There may be some interesting aspects to this issue, but the impression I get from your contributions (in this thread) is you're only interested in the "Murray" angle. In particular it seems you are only interested in presenting Murray in as poor a light as possible, so much so that you are (IMO) distorting the "story". In your own words (in this thread):


Is Nepotism Acceptable If It Involves Andy Murray? Andy Murray's mother … the father of Murrays long term girlfriend … got the job because of his links with Murray. … Murray himself … One of his latest outbursts … his brother Jamie … Judy (Murray's mother) … the Murrays … I know this may be difficult for Murray fans … bound by the views of one family? … Andy Murray …

… Andy Murray ... his mum. ... Murray … I'm not a relative or friend of Andy Murray ... should Andy Murray and his relatives and friends be given free reign … Murray himself … “a single family have never had a firmer stranglehold on the top flight of British tennis than the Murrays do". … the Murrays have a firm stranglehold …

… "Murray keeps it in the family". … Murray's mums … Judy Murray’s … Murray … “Judy” … “But would she have got this job if she wasn’t the mother of you-know- who?” … Murray appears to building up quite an impressive list of past (and present) British players who would not pass his stringent friends and family test ... "the mother of you-know-who"

… "Murray keeps it in the family"? … “But would she have got this job if she wasn’t the mother of you-know- who"? … Murray … his mother ... Murray's mums …

NS... Could it be a case of or ?

lydian.

I agree with a lot of what you said and of course the question of why did they appoint Judy Murray. From Virginia Wades comments others within British tennis are wondering why too.

Also when choosing a Davis Cup captain they did have a great ex player (a former number 4 in the world), with lots of Davis cup experience and a big interest in coaching and promoting British tennis. This player has also gone on to prove his excellent credentials achieving success with the junior squad. He also had from what I've read backing from players in the British top 10. He didn't get the job because according to the link above they chose to go down the "diplomatic" route.

Hi Nore Staat.

As I said in the original article I wanted inpartial opinions about the wisdom of appointments based on family connections. If you like I'll refer to him as "you know who". Do you have any thoughts on that?

laverfan

How come your regarded as insightful and yet you just appear to be here to stir things up? Do you have any thoughts on appointments based on family connections?

'As I said in the original article I wanted impartial opinions'

and that's what you are getting. I don't see Laverfan, Nore Staat, Lydian and NITB as strong Murray supporters (read their thread history if you disagree). However as always you ignore these impartial views and restate your own agenda.

As a Murray supporter I've refrained form commenting until except for asking you to actually read the jonathan overand article that you hold so much store by. In it Murray says ' Murray suggested last night that Smith's appointment would make zero difference as to whether he plays or not: "If I want to play, I'm playing for the team. It's not that I'm playing because Leon's the captain.

"I hope that was not the reason why he became captain. I don't think that's the way to make a decision on something as big as this."

Haven't got any issues with what Virginia Wade said. However who meets the criteria that she sets out. There is no recently retired woman GB player I can think of.

Judy Murray is obviously a good motivator and appears to be extremely popular with the players.

Given the most important role is as a Fed Cup captain is to motivate and organise the squad over technical 'coaching' I see this as an excellent decision.

hawkeye wrote:How come your regarded as insightful and yet you just appear to be here to stir things up?

You seem to doing a commendable job of that by yourself with articles
such as this one.

hawkeye wrote:Do you have any thoughts on appointments based on family connections?

You seem to think that being a Murray, and the mother of Andy, is a disqualification, just because they are connected biologically. You seem to refuse to look at the credentials of individual, outside the familial context. That shows a very specific short-sightedness on your part.

Regarding the highly-regarded former world #4, if he has success with juniors, would you not think, he should stick to the area of his greatest success, rather than venture into uncharted waters. I would also suggest you read BanBro's article regarding Rusedski. What adult coaching credentials does Rusedski have?

If he was a coach worth his salt, a private academy, a la the Mouratoglou ((http://www.mouratoglou.com/), rather than commentary on a TV channel would have been a better path to help the GBR Tennis

At least Judy foresaw the issues with LTA and took Andy to Spain. She did not want to be a part of the mediocrity that Lydian alludes to.

Fed Cup by itself is the same as DC for Men. Two of the most promising tennis players, Robson and Watson, that GBR has, would probably benefit, but there are no guarantees.

The desire to stay ensconced in a warm, comfortable mediocrity, rather than try to change it, shows a lack of critical thinking and laziness to quite a large extent. You seem to label it nepotism, just because you are limited by a single biological fact and your own dislike for Murray (as Nore Staat points out).

Such articles do not help GBR Tennis.

laverfan

No of course it shouldn't be a disqualification but neither should it be a qualification. Virginia Wade only said what is obviously being said behind closed doors. Judy wouldn't have got the job if it hadn't been for her son. Is that a good thing? When people say it is because she "nurtured" Andy what do they mean? She didn't coach him. I'm not denying the qualifications she does have but they are not the ones usually associated with this role.

I don't understand why you appear to think Judy Murray is the only person capable of bringing change to the ATP. If anything she may be able to get a little too comfortable in the role.

As for BanBro's article. Do you mean this one entitled "Grinning Greg Strikes Again"?

-

Just as I thought it was safe to get back into the water... along comes Greg!!

http://sport.uk.msn.com/tennis/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=159964402

So
Greg, the nearly 27 year old Tsonga is the next Nadal, where Andy - 2
years younger than Jo-Wilfred, needs to win a slam soon. So I assume,
that when he's 27 he won't be the new anything

Go figure

Then again, don't bother, it's just our Greg

-

I'm sorry but if that childish bit of name calling (because Greg is not a friend of Murray's?) is an example of how Murray's fans treat anything remotely critical of him I'm far from impressed. I expect similar comments about Virginia Wade soon...

And why does questioning an unusual appointment not help British Tennis? Not just one either. I think Rusedski being passed over was more odd. He only took the job with the juniors when he was turned down for the main job.

hawkeye wrote:I don't understand why you appear to think Judy Murray is the only person capable of bringing change to the ATP.

Let us keep this to LTA. I gave you an example of her ability to extract Andy and send him to Spain. Being a mother, it is much tougher to send one's own child away. I wonder why you do not consider that a factor and a measure of character.

hawkeye wrote:I think Rusedski being passed over was more odd. He only took the job with the juniors when he was turned down for the main job.

Do you know why he was turned down for the main job? Did it have anything to do with his qualification(s)? Ot is that nepotism again?

Here is something for you to ponder?

"‘Back in 2008, Greg approached David when they were playing golf and said he wasn’t making any money from tennis any more. So David suggested that he invest his money in this property deal as a way of making money. But after investing his money, Greg became panicky about it, so his investment was turned into a loan which he will get back as soon as the villas are sold.’"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2005357/British-tennis-giants-Rusedski-Lloyd-war-9m-Thai-property-deal.html


Also, this one....

http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/news?slug=reu-menrusedski_interview

hawkeye wrote:Andy Murray's mother has just been appointed as Fed. cup captain by the LTA. She replaces the father of Murrays long term girlfriend. This after Leon Smith (probably the least experienced captain in history) was given the role of Davis Cup captain ahead of Greg Rusedski (the obvious candidate veteran of 43 rubbers). Its accepted that Smith got the job because of his links with Murray.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jonathanoverend/2010/04/way_back_in_a_time.html

Murray himself is becoming increasingly vocal about the runnings of the LTA, Davis Cup etc. One of his latest outbursts was about LTA funding for players over 18. Does his brother Jamie recieve funding? He is a little over 18.

From the Times (PPV) after the recent appointment of Judy (Murray's mother)

a single family have never had a firmer stranglehold on the top flight of British tennis than the Murrays do.

I know this may be difficult for Murray fans but try and be inpartial. Is Nepotism a good thing. Once it is installed it is difficult to shake off. How would you feel personally if you were a more qualified candidate being overlooked? Is it good for the LTA to be bound by the views of one family?

Some relevant points are brought up in this discussion "Is Nepotism Ever Acceptable?" Interesting that despite not being related to the LTA and Andy Murray it talks about the problem of tennis club parents stifling social mobility...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/10/social-mobility-debate-cohen-johnson

The Christmas cracker jokes, have obviously started early!!

hawkeye wrote:laverfan

No of course it shouldn't be a disqualification but neither should it be a qualification. Virginia Wade only said what is obviously being said behind closed doors. Judy wouldn't have got the job if it hadn't been for her son. Is that a good thing? When people say it is because she "nurtured" Andy what do they mean? She didn't coach him. I'm not denying the qualifications she does have but they are not the ones usually associated with this role.

I don't understand why you appear to think Judy Murray is the only person capable of bringing change to the ATP. If anything she may be able to get a little too comfortable in the role.

As for BanBro's article. Do you mean this one entitled "Grinning Greg Strikes Again"?

-

Just as I thought it was safe to get back into the water... along comes Greg!!

http://sport.uk.msn.com/tennis/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=159964402

So
Greg, the nearly 27 year old Tsonga is the next Nadal, where Andy - 2
years younger than Jo-Wilfred, needs to win a slam soon. So I assume,
that when he's 27 he won't be the new anything

Go figure

Then again, don't bother, it's just our Greg

-

I'm sorry but if that childish bit of name calling (because Greg is not a friend of Murray's?) is an example of how Murray's fans treat anything remotely critical of him I'm far from impressed. I expect similar comments about Virginia Wade soon...

And why does questioning an unusual appointment not help British Tennis? Not just one either. I think Rusedski being passed over was more odd. He only took the job with the juniors when he was turned down for the main job.

Hawkeye. The old saying that states "if you're digging a hole for yourself then stop digging" has never rung more true. If you really think that Greg 'Bungalow' Rusedski, is the answer, then goodness knows what the question was

Greg maybe quite good at inspiring a few youths, who would swim through the shark infested waters of the Caribbean with open cuts - just to get a chance, but that ain't the same of having the tactical nous to try and beat the best ladies in the world, with a squad that is already used to failure

Also, implying that 'laverfan' is some kind of Tennis lightweight and you're the real deal, is a bit like trying to convince us that Barcelona are technically inferior to Blackburn Rovers - but I'm sure you already believe that

Have a nice Xmas and keep the laughs coming

HE...

Judy supports TennisForFree - http://www.tennisforfree.com/our-supporters.php

"The park has recently had its tennis courts refurbished and Murray, mother to men’s world number 4 player Andy and former Wimbledon champion Jamie, has been predominant in the rejuvenation of the courts."

http://www.tennisforfree.com/news.php?item=32

http://www.irvinebay.co.uk/our-changing-bay/52_glebe_tennis_courts_saltcoats

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2011/11/Features/HEAD-Judy-Murray-School-Visit.aspx

http://www.scotsman.com/news/judy_ready_to_pitch_in_with_tennis_academy_1_1630486

"[Judy] Murray, who was Scotland national coach for nine years, trained her son, a three-times grand slam finalist, early in his career..."

"Murray has already coached Britain's top-ranked woman, Elena Baltacha, and has experience with the British Davis Cup players Colin Fleming and Jamie Baker."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/dec/08/judy-murray-fed-cup-team-captain

Here is something else to ponder...

Novak Djokovic's coach Marian Vajda (highest ATP #34) has the following titles and finals.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Va/M/Marian-Vajda.aspx?t=tf

He has never been past R32(RG 1991) @RG, but he coaches current ATP #1.

In contrast Greg Rusedski (highest ATP #4) has the following titles and finals.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Ru/G/Greg-Rusedski.aspx?t=tf

He has played the 1997 USO final...

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Ru/G/Greg-Rusedski.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=gs#

A good player does not necessarily make a good coach.

Have you heard of Toni Nadal?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/541255-tennis-profile-the-man-behind-the-player-toni-nadal

HE... if I may be so forward as to suggest the next topic in your nepotism series, perhaps the analysis of British Monarchy and how they do not elect the heir/heiress to the throne, but just keep it in the family? Would you kindly elucidate your views?

A followup on the Jordanian or Saudi Monarchy would be much appreciated.

hawkeye wrote:... Hi Nore Staat.
As I said in the original article I wanted inpartial opinions about the wisdom of appointments based on family connections. If you like I'll refer to him as "you know who". Do you have any thoughts on that? ...

Hi, the impression given by the OP is of one that is not interested in British tennis per se - there was no consideration of the context of the appointments other than from a claimed nepotism angle, and no contextual analysis of British tennis. If one takes a look at the title – “Is Nepotism Acceptable If It Involves Andy Murray?”, one can see that it is a leading question. Others might go as far as saying that it is deliberately misleading, such as asking the question: “Is murdering a small child acceptable if it involves <add person of choice here>”. The text that follows the title is consistent with the sentiments shown in the title.

I find that djlovesyou post as well as Laverfans more recent posts provide credible reasons for the appointment of Mrs Judy Murray.

banbrotam

You don't like Rusedski to the point of being rude about him. Of course your entitled to your own opinion and it does no harm as your opinion is presumably not sought by the LTA. Murray's opinion carries a little more weight and his dislike of Rusedski may have prevented the best man from getting the job.

Why exactly does Murray (and many of his fans) dislike him so much? I've often wondered as he has had excellent results as a player, is enthusiastic in his interest in tennis including British tennis, is keen on coaching, is a good commentator and has a lovely smile. I'm sure he would be considered a valuable asset to any tennis playing country. Yet here where ex players of his quality are rare he is often sidelined...

laverfan

Thats a lot of research. Thankyou for taking the time to respond.

I didn't know Rusedski had financial problems and was surprised. I sort of expected a recently retired player who had got as high as four in the world would be financially secure. Not sure why you use this as evidence that he shouldn't have got the job. Its just another reason why he might have wanted it.

As for all the links about coaching the Fed Cup role is presumably not just (or even?) a coaching role. I have to trust Virginia Wades assesment of how appropriate Judy Murray's experience was to the role. She was very polite in acknowledging her positive attributes but also very firm in her view of how appropriate they were to the role.

Also as I have said before Judy Murray hasn't been her sons coach. Her role has been described as "nurturing". So if you want a Nadal comparison it should be with Nadal's mother not his uncle. Nadal's mother was also instrumental in what may have been a crucial aspect of his career. Just like Judy made the decision to send her son to a Spanish academy to train Nadal's mother made in the circumstances a more unusual decision. She chose to turn down the offer of a place at a Spanish academy and keep her son at home.

I've come to the conclusion that despite Judy Murrays appointment being discussed elswhere. (How I'd love to have tea with Greg and Virginia to get some Gossip.) Many here on 606v2 are too sensitive to discuss this topic...

Surely we want the best person for the job, that's it !

If Murray dislikes Rusedski, he's not alone. Many of his former coaches share the same opinion.
Rusedski would hardly be the best man for the job if he can't even develop a good working relationship with only world class player we've got.
You're assuming Virginia Wade's views are more impartial than anyone on this forum who disagrees with you. That may, or may not, be the case.
Why would you trust Wade, with regards to knowing what's best for the Fed Cup, more than trusting the people who appointed Judy Murray? In fact, why would you trust Wade more than Judy Murray?

Hawkeye wrote :

'I've come to the conclusion that despite Judy Murrays appointment being discussed elswhere. (How I'd love to have tea with Greg and Virginia to get some Gossip.) Many here on 606v2 are too sensitive to discuss this topic....'

Mmm. With a number of people putting forward their views I actually thought it had been discussed. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean that a discussion has not been had.

Still to hear who meets the criteria that Virginia Wade outlined. They are sensible criteria but I can't think of any GB person that meets them.

hawkeye wrote:Not sure why you use this as evidence that he shouldn't have got the job. Its just another reason why he might have wanted it.

You missed my point. I clearly stated that a good player does not necessarily make a good coach. Neither does being a good player make one a financially successful business person.

Are you suggesting that the position should be given, just because someone needs money to get out of their financial difficulties?

hawkeye wrote:I have to trust Virginia Wades assessment of how appropriate Judy Murray's experience was to the role.

You can choose who you trust or not. Personal choice.

hawkeye wrote:Also as I have said before Judy Murray hasn't been her sons coach. Her role has been described as "nurturing".

My links contradict this statement. Can you provide a link to 'nurturing'?

hawkeye wrote:So if you want a Nadal comparison it should be with Nadal's mother not his uncle.

Nadal's mother does not play and/or coach tennis, hence the comparison with Toni (not Nadal's mother).

hawkeye wrote:Nadal's mother was also instrumental in what may have been a crucial aspect of his career. Just like Judy made the decision to send her son to a Spanish academy to train Nadal's mother made in the circumstances a more unusual decision. She chose to turn down the offer of a place at a Spanish academy and keep her son at home.

What is harder, keeping a son at home, or sending a son away from home?

hawkeye wrote:I've come to the conclusion that despite Judy Murrays appointment being discussed elswhere. (How I'd love to have tea with Greg and Virginia to get some Gossip.) Many here on 606v2 are too sensitive to discuss this topic...

Is this not the discussion that you wanted to have on 606v2? Posters are allowed dissenting opinions, like you have one, correct? Ms. Wade named criteria, but no candidates. I would prefer (like you proposed Greg), for her to have the forthrightness to name a few potential candidates. If she is reluctant to do that, perhaps, she is unwilling/unable to come up with a better candidate.

laverfan wrote:...

hawkeye wrote:I have to trust Virginia Wades assessment of how appropriate Judy Murray's experience was to the role.

You can choose who you trust or not. Personal choice. ...

Trust is often used as an alternative to knowing.

Hawk: great article, I'll propose this for best thread award

laverfan

Thankyou! I will answer your last question first. Yes this is the sort of discussion I wanted. I dont mind people disagreeing.

As far as Rusedski and his financial problems. Of course I'm not suggesting he should be given the job because he needs the money! I thought you were suggesting he shouldn't because he needs the money... I don't think his financial situation should have had anything to do with the appointment and didn't understand why you brought it up.

Yes I trust Virginia Wade. Who wouldn't?

Read lots of references to nurturing can't remember all but hope this will suffice. From The Times

"Judy Murray can bring MOTHERLY instincts to bear on LTA's young and gifted". "The MOTHER and MENTOR of Andy and Jamie Murray".

I'm not denying she may have other qualifications but the ones most touted are those that involve her motherly role with her sons. After all it is this link that got her the job.

Still don't see the link with Uncle Toni. Judy doesn't coach her son. Uncle Toni hasn't got a job with the Spanish tennis authority. I don't know if Nadal's mum plays tennis. But I have to admit that IMO if Murrays mum played Nadals mum at tennis Murrays mum would thrash Nadals mum...

What got the best results? Sending a son to a Spanish Academy or refusing to send a son to a Spanish Academy.

hawkeye wrote:What got the best results? Sending a son to a Spanish Academy or refusing to send a son to a Spanish Academy.

Having Uncle Toni be the coach. If Nadal had left Mallorca, he would not have had the benefit of Uncle Toni's coaching.

Lack of a coach did not prevent Murray from winning the 2011 Asian swing.

Oh My God



Judy Murray is an excellant model role for the up and coming

generation of tennis players. She has won the position on her

merits as a coach and mentor.

yummymummy wrote:Oh My God



Judy Murray is an excellant model role for the up and coming

generation of tennis players. She has won the position on her

merits as a coach and mentor.

I am trying to convince HE of that, but the refusals are fast and furious.

We are obvuously of the minority that understood the

"Any one but England" statement LV !!!



It just goes to show that the foot ball fans just moved over from

606 to 606v2 dunnit ?

yummymummy wrote:We are obvuously of the minority that understood the

"Any one but England" statement LV !!!



It just goes to show that the foot ball fans just moved over from

606 to 606v2 dunnit ?

But you have some good posters here, like Barrystar, LegendKillar, BogBrush (), CaledonianCraig, Calder106, Nore Staat, Tenez(), to name a few.

Yes I agree Laverfan



But there are also the absolute die-hard anti Murray peeps

who still insist in spreading their vile opinions about the best

player that GB has had for the last 70 years. I feel sorry for

them - it must be so frustrating to be in the minority.

yummymummy wrote:Yes I agree Laverfan



But there are also the absolute die-hard anti Murray peeps

who still insist in spreading their vile opinions about the best

player that GB has had for the last 70 years. I feel sorry for

them - it must be so frustrating to be in the minority.

You come and hang out at 606v2 sometimes, as well, so I have moral support from you. Thanks.

yummymummy wrote:We are obvuously of the minority that understood the

"Any one but England" statement LV !!!



It just goes to show that the foot ball fans just moved over from

606 to 606v2 dunnit ?

In defence of 606v2, I have never seen a tennis poster post in our football section. Can we stop with the generalisations of posters you dont agree with please. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on tennis players.