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Filling the void or addressing the problem area

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Mon 12 Dec 2011, 3:44 pm

The new year has some great rugby on offer with some traditional 3 match series complete with mid-week games in Australia and NZ.

The World Cup usually sees the end of a cycle and some players move overseas to richer pastures. That is the case with NZ with Brad Thorn. An absolute professional who was a model of consistency and showed the value of preparation and knowing how to look after yourself. Age needn´t be a barrier as long as you know how to get yourself prepared. Thorn is going to be a tough player to replace. Whitelock needs an enforcer like player to complement him. Like Matfield worked so well with a big Bakkis Botha in tandem with him. There are players who can step up to this level but often combinations with other players is equally important as individual talent.

SA is lucky in that they can replace a leader like John Smit with such a quality player as Du Plessis. Really he should´ve started last year rather than come off the bench. But replacing Victor Matfield and Bakkis Botha - in my opinion the greatest locking combination to grace the game - is a tougher ask. Like NZ, there are plenty of options but a huge ask to fill such big shoes and not just literally speaking.

Ireland have to find initially at least a worthy replacement for BOD. Indeed they might even see it as an opportunity to drop D'arcy and find themselves a replacement centre combination. Plenty of candidates again but even more of a formidable task than SA because the potential replacements aren´t as convincing as the SA ones comparatively speaking.

England have their own worries at centre as well as finding the best combination in the back row. They also have, with Tindall and Moody out of the equation, the task of finding another captain. Do you go with the tried and tested or do you go with someone for the future? With Lancaster as interim coach it may well be easier to pick the former but it has to be someone who will be guaranteed to start.

Wales have their talisman winger Shane to replace. They have a big young kid on the other side who might make that loss seem easier to bear but Shane Williams was a type of player that won matches for Wales when they needed something out of the ordinary. It´s difficult to find someone like that again so soon after. The good thing in Wales´favour is that they have unearthed plenty of other talent in the backrow and flyhalf to compensate for the loss of such experience and brilliance.

Australia are possibly in the best position. They have a young team with a lot of potential. Their weakness as always remains their depth. The front row, the back row, and centre combinations (I think Quade Cooper will be back to his best in the Reds and in the yellow and gold next year. JOC I think is a better shot at 12 if he were to come inside from the wing, which I don´t think he needs to do) and their backup remain the big problem areas. Injury seems to be an unlucky curse on the Wallabies but of all the sides, if they can change their luck with that, they have a side that will develop and only get better.

France is difficult to keep track of because 1000 players played under Lievremont it seemed. Phillipe Saint-André does have a lot of players to choose from as a result so it will be difficult going to consistency knowing that he can choose from a number of players who have played at the top level. I think the most difficult thing for him is deciding on a XV and then trying to keep selections as stable as possible.

So who are your candidates to step up for your nation and who do you think is in a good position in terms of stability and quality of players. To me SA and Australia are looking ominous for NZ as they have quality replacements or solutions. To me the Home Nations are more of a question mark in terms of knowing who the right men for the job are. Not a personal slight against the NH, just an observation.

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Post by rodders Mon 12 Dec 2011, 3:54 pm

I think Ireland are in a really strong position actually and there won't be too much rebuilding this season.

BOD is out so obviously that is a big void to fill but in gives us an opportunity to look at different centre combinations which was a bit of an achilles heel in the RWC.

There are numerous different options including with D'arcy, McFadden, Earls, Darren Cave, Nevin Spence and Eoin O'Malley all playing well there for their provinces and Trimble and Bowe as further options.

Donnacha O'Callaghan may have slipped behind Donnacha Ryan in the 2nd row pecking order.

Other than that I wouldn't see too many changes to the 1st XV and there's a lot of players showing good form since the RWC. I'd say there will be a few new faces in the wider squad but thats about it.

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Post by nganboy Mon 12 Dec 2011, 11:22 pm

I think Thorn for NZ had his best year(s) in 2009/10 so in that sense he's not too much of a loss next year.
Players like Donnelly and Boric can cover adequately with Hoeata stepping up in a couple of years.
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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Tue 13 Dec 2011, 8:28 am

Donnelly has had trouble with injury as has Boric. I don´t think there´s any doubt to their ability but as for combining well with Whitelock I´d go more for Donnelly with a view to Hoeata who could play a similar role to Thorn. But I think you might be downplaying his absence a bit too much nganboy. It´s a good comment about his form though he did seem to come right in the knockout phases of the World Cup. But what was so dangerous about Thorn other than his defence in close was his ability to link up with the men outside him. One of my favourite tries in 2010 was when Kaino turned over the ball against Australia, it came to Mealamu who passed to Thorn who through a delayed pass took out two men and linked up with Conrad Smith who then gave it to Jane who made a miracle kick which Muliaina grabbed to score in the corner. That key moment was the link between the forwards and the backs.

Things are looking good rodders. That backrow is fiendishly good even though there´s no genuine fetcher there. The front row has improved out of sight. But how is the depth if the front runners get injured? Plenty of names no doubt playing good club footy like those able to replace BOD but are they of the same quality and have they been tested at test level. Test rugby is a step up from club rugby. Picking those who have already a forged combination in club rugby is an advantage but it´s not necessarily an indicator that they´re going to play the same way at test level.

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Post by rodders Tue 13 Dec 2011, 9:20 am

Kia when I say things look good, I mean relatively good of course!

It may take a while to develop a 1st xv as good as what we have had but certainly there is far more depth in Irish rugby than ever before. The provinces are going very well despite having a fair few injuries.

You are right that we have a lot of untested players who will have to make the step up but I think that there will be exciting times ahead, even if there will be a few ups and downs.

O'Connell, O'Gara, O'Driscoll etc are contracted to 2013 and the signs are that there won't be major changes until then. Kidney is to prioritise the 6N until then. However looking at the provinces some of the older guys like O'Callaghan are already struggling to hold down their places so we may see some changes come the 6N.

In terms of the back row: O'Brien(24) and Heaslip(28) will be around for a while yet. Ferris (26) is in awesome form, but may not be around too long because of his knee. Jennings is 30. O'Mahoney at Munster is coming through, hopefully followed by Ruddock and Ryan at Leinster. Henry and McGlaughlin are both playing well too. Still no top class fetcher but there is good depth there.

I think this 6N will be difficult, given the fixtures and I'd see us as perhaps 3rd or 4th favourites behind France, Wales and perhaps England but I'm pretty positive about the future of Irish rugby to be honest and there are some exciting players coming through to look out for, particularly in the backs.
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Post by mckay1402 Tue 13 Dec 2011, 11:11 am

Wales need to not worry about replacing Shane or filling the void. Their strength will have to become playing for each other and going through the phases to create space for the talent that is there. Build some confidence and the new Shanes will come through naturally.

Part of Wales problem as far as I can see it is that they have tried to find space of early phase ball when they haven't put the defence under enough pressure. Shane is good at creating things out of nothing but unless we start to put defences under pressure then those opportunities will dry up. Fortunately that appears to be the way this squad is heading but i think they are far from the finished article. The 6 nations will be a big test of their progress and I'd like to see some of the younger players given opportunities to stake their places. build build build
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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Tue 13 Dec 2011, 12:40 pm

That´s a fair comment mckay. I thought also, despite his effectiveness, Mike Phillips often was too slow in redirecting attack. Often the likes of Roberts or Faletau would make a break but there wasn´t enough support coming in from behind to continue on the attack at pace. That wasn´t Phillip´s fault always as often there were no options on out wide. What Wales need to build on is continuity. Making the busts is not enough. Having people in the right part of the field and with the foresight to see where busts will be made and having proper support lines are crucial to keeping the momentum of attacks and the pressure on the opposition defence you allude to.

I think though that Wales have a really good combination of youth and experience and am expecting big things from them in this 6N.

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Post by mckay1402 Tue 13 Dec 2011, 12:59 pm

Kia

Totally agree. There must be nothing more frustrating for a coach than to see his team making line breaks all over the park but having no support players to finish the move off. It is possibly the thing about Scottish rugby that frustrates me the most as well. you can have all the line breakers you want in your team but if it is not ingrained in you to support then your team is doomed to fail.

This is why New Zealand, South Africa, Australia and France are most often succesful. Almost every attack is followed up by a number of supporing players who know their role.
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