Ireland to host Rugby World Cup in 2023?

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Ireland to host Rugby World Cup?

I was listening to a piece on Newstalk on Friday evening about this and it seemed quite serious truth be told. Economist David McWilliams was on, former Irish coach Eddie O Sullivan, IRFU spokespeople and transport and sport Minister Leo Varadkar was on too lending his support.

All spoke about it being a distinct possibility that Ireland would submit an application to host the 2023 RWC.

Many points for and against this obviously.

The main issue seemed to be stadiums of the right quality. NZ spent 300m or something like that on developing their stadiums to make sure they were to a certain standard for the RWC. The people on air recognised early on that without the support of the GAA Ireland's bid would die as they own a lot of stadiums, but more importantly the only stadium in Ireland over 60,000 (a necessity to host a RWC final).

Assuming the GAA would support the bid (which is by no means a sure thing) Ireland's stadiums would include:

Croke Park
Lansdowne Road
Thomond Park
Ravenhill -needs to be developed
The RDS -needs to be developed
The Sportsground- needs to be developed
A GAA stadium in Castlebar can't remember the name
Another GAA stadium in the midlands can't remember the name

There are others like Musgrave Park and Donnybrook etc too.

On the stadiums front, they may be a bit small to host 1/4 and 1/2 finals. Obviously the final would be in Croke but in the 1/4's we'd need 4 big stadiums and we may be a bit short there IMO. I'm not sure what stadiums the kiwi's used for the 1/4's tbh.

Other things that were discussed on the show were, the Irish volunteering spirit. The Kiwi's really bought into the RWC as it's such a huge part of their culture and they really made it a good place for supporters to go. I (like the panel on the show Friday evening) believe we Irish could put on a serious show for the travelling supporters. Our hospitality is renowned and we take rugby seriously. I'd like to think we are a welcoming people and respectful (for the most part). I think the atmosphere at some of the games would be amazing and we could really try an infuse some of our Celtic culture into pre match routines the way the Kiwi's did with the Maori culture. We did a good job with the Special Olympics.

Our infrastructure is quite good now.
There are motorways to the main cities and trains and buses are relatively regular. One thing is for sure, no one would need to fly!

The IRFU said they'd be willing to do it and I think mentioned meeting the government at some point and said it may be an idea to look at doing it with Scotland or Wales as well as an option. The Government said they'd be interested in looking at the opportunity

David McWilliams said that even though RWC 2011 was supposed to be a financial disaster for NZ, they actually have made money off it. Only just but they did and obviously it will do great things for their tourist industry.

Some things that may be an issue:
The GAA not wanting to be involved.
The IRFU making a hames of ticket prices again
The lack 30,000+ stadiums for 1/4+1/2 finals
The IRB may want to send it to a developing nation.

What do people think?
Would you like the 2023 RWC to be in Ireland?
Will Stadiums be a huge problem?
Any other set backs you can think of?

Biltong wrote:I'll say it again, it is SA's time, by 2023 it will have been 28 years since the RWC was hosted in SA.

The way South Africa is going, it will be similar to what happened to the Togo bus at the ACN. The FIFA World Cup was just a fluke that nothing majorly bad happened.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Biltong wrote:I'll say it again, it is SA's time, by 2023 it will have been 28 years since the RWC was hosted in SA.

The way South Africa is going, it will be similar to what happened to the Togo bus at the ACN. The FIFA World Cup was just a fluke that nothing majorly bad happened.

Enlighten me on the way SA is going please

Biltong wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Biltong wrote:I'll say it again, it is SA's time, by 2023 it will have been 28 years since the RWC was hosted in SA.

Dont you think it needs to go to another country? You need to spread this things around and SA got to host the soccer world cup in 2010

The one doesn't depict where the other one should go in my opinion.

We have only had 1 hosting of the world cup, OZ has had 2, NZ has had 2, Europe in various combinations have hosted 4, with another one coming up and Japan has one.

We are smack dab in the best time slot, one of the biggest rubgy countries (support wise).

I want it.

What about an Olympics? Would be great for SA I reckon.

Linebreaker wrote:

Biltong wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Biltong wrote:I'll say it again, it is SA's time, by 2023 it will have been 28 years since the RWC was hosted in SA.

Dont you think it needs to go to another country? You need to spread this things around and SA got to host the soccer world cup in 2010

The one doesn't depict where the other one should go in my opinion.

We have only had 1 hosting of the world cup, OZ has had 2, NZ has had 2, Europe in various combinations have hosted 4, with another one coming up and Japan has one.

We are smack dab in the best time slot, one of the biggest rubgy countries (support wise).

I want it.

What about an Olympics? Would be great for SA I reckon.

I was thinking about that, but then last night I saw how little money SA puts into the Olympics.

Our gold medalists recieved R 400 000 per medal
Our Silver medalitsts recieved R 200 000 per medal
Our Bronze medalists recieved R 80 000 per medal

Plus in total there was about R47 million rand for the Olympics and development.

That is nothing compared to other countries

Feckless Rogue wrote:Ireland has some serious problems though. The country's debt is gigantic. The government is pending billions more than is is making. The country is basically being kept afloat with German money.

It just doesn't seem like hosting a major sports competition at a loss is a very clever thing to do in such an economic crisis.

In 10 years time, the present worldwide recession will be well over and 100m is nothing in the scheme of things. We should look at the GAA and their forward thinking of starting the redevelopment of Croke Park in the middle of the last recession (and which cost a fraction of what the Aviva cost to redevelop).

No doubt the GAA see this as an ideal opportunity to develop some of their stadia (and provide employment for a lot of their members).

Good point Sin. I'm sure that the IRFU timed their rebuilding of Lansdowne terribly. It was built at the height of a property bubble when everything would have cost much more. They'll be paying for that for a long time.

Maybe a recession is actually the best time to invest in redeveloping stadiums, even though it seems a bit counter intuitive at first.

Sin é wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:Ireland has some serious problems though. The country's debt is gigantic. The government is pending billions more than is is making. The country is basically being kept afloat with German money.

It just doesn't seem like hosting a major sports competition at a loss is a very clever thing to do in such an economic crisis.

In 10 years time, the present worldwide recession will be well over and 100m is nothing in the scheme of things.

You think?!

I wouldn't be too sure. Mind you Ireland is one of the few European countries not technically in recession right now so perhaps the future is brighter there than a lot of other places. If the eurozone collapses then most places will be feiced anyways.......

It will be fine-and it will help your economy!!!

there is no way you will be out of pocket by 100 million quid eitherway!

"Maybe a recession is actually the best time to invest in redeveloping stadiums, even though it seems a bit counter intuitive at first"

It is a good time as it creates jobs, which will see a long term benefits- would you rather pay more benefits or more wages!!

Both NZ and SA have hosted world cups yet neither of these countries would be "wealthier" per capita than Ireland. I dont see why Ireland shouldnt bid for the 2023 WC. With GAA assistance and group matches in Wales,Scotland and England it could be done tomorrow. However, world cups are best where the host nation hosts all matches and there is a concentration of fans spread over a few cities not too far apart. Ambitious but doable.

GunsGerms wrote:Both NZ and SA have hosted world cups yet neither of these countries would be "wealthier" per capita than Ireland. I dont see why Ireland shouldnt bid for the 2023 WC. With GAA assistance and group matches in Wales,Scotland and England it could be done tomorrow. However, world cups are best where the host nation hosts all matches and there is a concentration of fans spread over a few cities not too far apart. Ambitious but doable.

Can we not host all the games in ireland? We have enough stadiums.

I voted "I think a developing Rugby nation should get it" but I "would also love it and definitely go."

I didn't know there was some sort of agreement that if a 6N hosts the RWC that the Millenium Stadium has to get some games? Ireland are capable of hosting it independantly. It would definitely be a boost for Ireland rugby, for participation numbers and popularity (maybe Ireland should play a group game at the Sportsground?). And perhaps for Ireland, your economy.

Another thing that may be an issue for all the travelling supporters is the amount of a-holes and rip-off merchants living in Dublin. That said, I'd still love to come over for a world cup.

You could stay in my house Morg.

Only 300 quid a night.

Is the Heino complementary? I assume there's caviar and prawn sandwiches on tap. A turnip would probably suite me alright though.

Thanks mate, but I got my contacts and they're cheaper .

Could that become an issue though??? There was talk of accomodation prices like that post NZ, but I'm not sure if it actually happened.

Morgannwg,

I can assure you (and this is not a dig just a concrete fact) that when it comes to rugby the biggest rip off merchants by far are the people living in Cardiff.

Its because:

1 - Cardiff is significantly smaller than Dublin, Paris, Rome or London

2 - Cardiff is a much more popular rugby location than London, Paris or Edinburgh.

3 - The location of the stadium is in prime city centre location compared with Paris, Rome or London

Many establishments especially hotelliers from Cardiff charge highly unethical fees during a Welsh international or Heineken Cup Final weekend.

Dublin experiences a bit of a price increase as it ticks a few of those boxes but it is nothing as bad as it gets in Cardiff.

BTW Morgan.

I just re-read my post.

It comes across very condescening.

Didn't mean it to

I haven't seen it in Cardiff out of all the times I've been there. I just heard from a friend (who considers himself Irish) that bar owners were like that in Dublin, even refusing to give out change (I seen that in Paris too). I wasn't singling out your capital city, all big cities are like this. I wasn't stating 'a fact' and fail to see how you can state that as a fact about Cardiff? I haven't been there on a Heienekn Cup weekend but those reasons you list kind of help make it one of the best rugby cities.

Mogan many cities may be like that- I feel amsterdam is actually the worst from my experience but anyway what I will say is that I dont think london is at all!

But then i suppose it is touristy all year round anyway

Artful_Dodger wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:It certainly isnt german money keeping them a float..

It is manly british loans at very low interest rates(under what there credit rating suggests) and europoean wide bail out funds.

It is mainly German money, Britain's loan to Ireland is believed to be somewhere between 5 and 7 billion, a drop in the ocean compared to the hundreds of billions coming from Europe, most of which is coming from Germany.

Sorry mate you are totally barking up the wrong tree

"Much of this is politics and spin. Despite Europhobic complaints that Britain is paying to rescue the despised euro single currency, Britain, in fact, will be helping Ireland in order to help itself. British banks' lending to Ireland, at €149bn, is the highest in the EU. An Irish collapse would hammer British banks. The two neighbouring economies are utterly intertwined, not least because of Northern Ireland, and British trade with and exports to Ireland are huge.

But the £7bn?

When the IMF bails out a stricken country, that is not called a British rescue, although through its IMF membership and subscription, British funds are involved. Ditto the European commission fund for €60bn. The commission, using the EU budget as collateral, goes to the markets and borrows up to €60bn which it then lends to the Irish. It can borrow cheaply. No country or finance ministry spends or loses a euro cent unless Ireland, improbably, defaults and the EU countries are liable for the loans. Europe will probably make a profit, by lending to Ireland at a higher rate than it borrowed. The British share of the pot is 12-14% or almost €8bn. As an EU member and contributor to the EU budget, the UK has no choice but to take part in this lending"

So however you look at it Britain is the a masisve part of your bail(way more than germany)

Just thinking of some of the other stuff that would go with this.....

-you'd get a lot of tourism back in the country because if you stayed in Ireland for a few weeks after the cup most would recognise Ireland (when the sun is shining) is a beautiful place.

-the GAA would have thousands of new spectators as I think they should try and play a few games (exhibition games) during the RWC

-Ireland going and playing a game in Galway is a fantastic idea to boost the popularity there too

-it would make rugby much more popular (considering football, hurling and soccer are vastly more popular particularly in Dublin city centre and on the west coast.

We'd be deadly at putting on a show I think too, we have the whole Celtic riverdance thing going on, loads of sean scealta (old myths and legends), we have our famous drinking reputation to uphold (and force upon others!)

I think we could do this really well myself.

Biltong, you did have the Lions 3 years ago too, it is not the same thing but it is a major competition

mystiroakey wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:It certainly isnt german money keeping them a float..

It is manly british loans at very low interest rates(under what there credit rating suggests) and europoean wide bail out funds.

It is mainly German money, Britain's loan to Ireland is believed to be somewhere between 5 and 7 billion, a drop in the ocean compared to the hundreds of billions coming from Europe, most of which is coming from Germany.

Sorry mate you are totally barking up the wrong tree

"Much of this is politics and spin. Despite Europhobic complaints that Britain is paying to rescue the despised euro single currency, Britain, in fact, will be helping Ireland in order to help itself. British banks' lending to Ireland, at €149bn, is the highest in the EU. An Irish collapse would hammer British banks. The two neighbouring economies are utterly intertwined, not least because of Northern Ireland, and British trade with and exports to Ireland are huge.

But the £7bn?

When the IMF bails out a stricken country, that is not called a British rescue, although through its IMF membership and subscription, British funds are involved. Ditto the European commission fund for €60bn. The commission, using the EU budget as collateral, goes to the markets and borrows up to €60bn which it then lends to the Irish. It can borrow cheaply. No country or finance ministry spends or loses a euro cent unless Ireland, improbably, defaults and the EU countries are liable for the loans. Europe will probably make a profit, by lending to Ireland at a higher rate than it borrowed. The British share of the pot is 12-14% or almost €8bn. As an EU member and contributor to the EU budget, the UK has no choice but to take part in this lending"

So however you look at it Britain is the a masisve part of your bail(way more than germany)

Not true. The ECB are buying our Gov bonds, the 7BN euro was a bi-lateral lone at an extortionate rate. We are in effect suffering from not having a central bank. The UK economy would be way worse off it it werent able to print money (QE)... but that will come back to bite them in the backside soon as we already see higher rates of inflation in the UK compared to the EU.

QE is masking the fact that Britain is in big trouble economically which in turn means big trouble for Ireland, as you said, our economies are so inter twined. If we "did a Greece" and gave the EU and IMF the 2 fingers and demanded a write down, Britain's banks would be hit very hard indeed. Hence the "friendly" loan...

That all sounds great Pete.

I'm sure you'd get fans all the way from here and NZ too who'd stay a few weeks either side of the tournament. Lots of ancestry to explore as well for many of us. It's a big thing (in Oz) to say you have connections with Ireland and are going over to meet up with distant relations and do some research.

Morgannwg wrote:I wasn't stating 'a fact' and fail to see how you can state that as a fact about Cardiff? I haven't been there on a Heienekn Cup weekend but those reasons you list kind of help make it one of the best rugby cities.

Stags job involves rugby tourism. If anyone would know with any certainty it's him.

All of that is true mate. not sure what your point is at all.

UK banks(govt owned these days!!) have loaned Ire 150 bill at a very good rate, Because if both economies are strong is good for both of us.. Forget the 7 bill which is pushed on to us by being in the EU.

Just imagine the UK was part of the Euro- The UK wouldnt be able to have so much control of our lending to Ireland.. That is the fact of it.

red_stag wrote:BTW Morgan.

I just re-read my post.

It comes across very condescening.

Didn't mean it to

I don't know if that makes it any better...

UK banks(govt owned these days!!) have loaned Ire 150 bill at a very good rate

Sorry my man, you are mis-guided.

The UK Banks did not lend 150BN to Ireland. They lent the money (in turn their shareholders) lent the money to Irish Banks.

Irish Banks and the Government are not the same thing. This was private sector lending, not lending to a sovereign.

It turns out that the government lumped this private debt onto the state in order to "save the euro" back in 2008 (following on from the collapse of Leman Bros in the US- no one knew what would happen if Anglo Irish Bank defaulted, so we "took a hit for the team")

Private and public debt are not the same. I understand where your confusion comes from as British media are anything but impartial (especially the BBC) and would feed any kind of BS to the public, who don't know any better....

...and that "good rate" is the Interbank Rate and is determined by the markets (or in the UKs case a select group of criminals posing as bank chiefs)...

Just google "LIBOR scandal) and you can find out more...

Duigers if you dont think i realise it is private sector funding then you are misguided. However it now isnt private sector funding from us as all the banks are owned by the tax payers in effect¬!!

Private sector funding is what ireland needs!!

Btw i actually worked for Lehmans!!

My condolences.. but it remains that it is still private debt.

Why do you think we are paying it off?? We are paying it off because, when the euro breaks up, we will be in tier 1 because of our "efforts" to pay for the mistakes of regulators, politicians and banks.. we have already negotiated the refinancing of promissory notes to the ECB....

Truth is, no one know how it's going to unfold, but if there is a sudden wind up of the euro and we dont like the deal, I guarantee you we will be doing a Greece and giving the 2 fingers to German, French and British bondholders who we (the banks!) owe the money to....

My only point was that Britain is helping out ireland however it can(even if that is due to our own preservation over/as well as irelands)

Ireland is gonna be fine

mystiroakey wrote:Has Ireland ever gone for a major sporting event before?

Uefa cup final
Special Olympics
Ryder Cup
RWC 1990 (shared)
Tour de France

All of the above have been held in Ireland. All attracted huge crowds and were extremely sucessful.

I agree with that. It's completely in your interest to keep us in tier 1 of the eurozone when it does come crashing down... otherwise one of your very biggest trading partners will cease to buy all of that stuff we buy from you !!!

I am sure we'll be fine too... but we have a big private v public fight going to happen.

For example, why are Irish policemen paid 40% more than in the UK??
Why is pour Prime Minster paid more than yours?
Why is our dole over twice what it is in the UK?
Why are public sector jobs and pensions way more than the norm?

Having said that, our GDP per head is still in the world top 25 (10% higher than the UK)

I'd hope the UK will be fine too, but as with all of us, we must do better !

...British Open in golf was also once held in Ireland albeit 50 years ago.

mystiroakey wrote:My only point was that Britain is helping out ireland however it can(even if that is due to our own preservation over/as well as irelands)

Ireland is gonna be fine

The fact that the current British chancellor of the Exchequer is an Irish aristocrat, who's birth right entitles him to a huge Irish estate, might also be a bit of motivation some might say ....

GDP per head isnt the most important figure to worry about in fairness- adjust ppp(in which uk is very high in the retail indexes) to that and you get a better picture, but you also have to consider distribution of wealth

Again, agreed !

GunsGerms wrote:...British Open in golf was also once held in Ireland albeit 50 years ago.

That was in northern ireland so did nothing for our economy

mystiroakey wrote:Btw i actually worked for Lehmans!!

And I was a contractor at Bradford & Bingley back in 2007

I really wasn't surprised when they got into trouble ...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:...British Open in golf was also once held in Ireland albeit 50 years ago.

That was in northern ireland so did nothing for our economy

This would be an all Ireland bid so there are two economies involved here, not one.

rodders wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:...British Open in golf was also once held in Ireland albeit 50 years ago.

That was in northern ireland so did nothing for our economy

This would be an all Ireland bid so there are two economies involved here, not one.

Would northern irelands soccer stadium be able to host group games?

No idea, Pete has listed the stadiums involved in the OP.

Aren't the top two choices the same?

Glas a du wrote:Aren't the top two choices the same?

Haha

Back down the coal mine with ya, ya grubby little Welsh bottom feeder

Notch wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:I wasn't stating 'a fact' and fail to see how you can state that as a fact about Cardiff? I haven't been there on a Heienekn Cup weekend but those reasons you list kind of help make it one of the best rugby cities.

Stags job involves rugby tourism. If anyone would know with any certainty it's him.

That sounds like a great job, but Stag said:

I can assure you (and this is not a dig just a concrete fact) that when it comes to rugby the biggest rip off merchants by far are the people living in Cardiff.

Its because:

1 - Cardiff is significantly smaller than Dublin, Paris, Rome or London

2 - Cardiff is a much more popular rugby location than London, Paris or Edinburgh.

3 - The location of the stadium is in prime city centre location compared with Paris, Rome or London

Many establishments especially hotelliers from Cardiff charge highly unethical fees during a Welsh international or Heineken Cup Final weekend.

Dublin experiences a bit of a price increase as it ticks a few of those boxes but it is nothing as bad as it gets in Cardiff.

Now he hasn't gone into great detail. But there was me thinking that people hated walking/travelling great distances from the pub/city centre to the stadium? And I also thought that on an international day Cardiff was a great rubgy city, which is what travelling rugby fans wanted? There are no people trying to sell you junk left, right and centre in the streets; and no people that try to pick your pocket both of which is in Paris. Nor are there any gangsters, like in Dublin. Perhaps the odd fight but it's usually amongst ourselves rather than travelling rugby supporters.

Never stayed at a hotel there. Thought the beer was reasonable for a capital city too. Especially compared to Paris and Dublin.

Morgan,

Your right about the beer and the atmosphere. Because of the location of the Mill.Stadium and the enthusiasm of Welsh culture it is the best city to watch a game.

In Paris and Dublin, booze is expensive but its that price the whole year round. You will usually pay around £3.50 - £4 for a pint usually in Dublin while Paris is almost double the price. The UK is obviously cheaper.

But the price of a pint is a very small factor in deciding to travel on a rugby tour and day trips to Cardiff are becoming more and more popular due to the massive price increases that hotels charge.

Im not saying that Cardiff isn't great. It is but the hoteliers and coach companies in the city know that.

In Paris and Dublin, booze is expensive but its that price the whole year round. You will usually pay around £3.50 - £4 for a pint usually in Dublin while Paris is almost double the price. The UK is obviously cheaper.

Dublin is 4 euro minimum, going up to 5 more usually and even 5.50.

In Paris you can get a demi for 2 euros.... some happy hour (5-9) pints are 3.50, so it depends...

Booze is much cheaper in the UK, hence all of the issues surrounding it there and the talk of introducing minimum pricing ect...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gaa-back-rugby-world-cup-bid-3203124.html


Looks like they are definitely going for it.

I'd prefer to see Argentina, Italy and South Africa (only because Japan will probably lose money) ahead on the list. But for 2023 i'd have them ahead of the US, Russia and those sorts of developing rugby countries.