Ireland to host Rugby World Cup in 2023?

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Ireland to host Rugby World Cup?

I was listening to a piece on Newstalk on Friday evening about this and it seemed quite serious truth be told. Economist David McWilliams was on, former Irish coach Eddie O Sullivan, IRFU spokespeople and transport and sport Minister Leo Varadkar was on too lending his support.

All spoke about it being a distinct possibility that Ireland would submit an application to host the 2023 RWC.

Many points for and against this obviously.

The main issue seemed to be stadiums of the right quality. NZ spent 300m or something like that on developing their stadiums to make sure they were to a certain standard for the RWC. The people on air recognised early on that without the support of the GAA Ireland's bid would die as they own a lot of stadiums, but more importantly the only stadium in Ireland over 60,000 (a necessity to host a RWC final).

Assuming the GAA would support the bid (which is by no means a sure thing) Ireland's stadiums would include:

Croke Park
Lansdowne Road
Thomond Park
Ravenhill -needs to be developed
The RDS -needs to be developed
The Sportsground- needs to be developed
A GAA stadium in Castlebar can't remember the name
Another GAA stadium in the midlands can't remember the name

There are others like Musgrave Park and Donnybrook etc too.

On the stadiums front, they may be a bit small to host 1/4 and 1/2 finals. Obviously the final would be in Croke but in the 1/4's we'd need 4 big stadiums and we may be a bit short there IMO. I'm not sure what stadiums the kiwi's used for the 1/4's tbh.

Other things that were discussed on the show were, the Irish volunteering spirit. The Kiwi's really bought into the RWC as it's such a huge part of their culture and they really made it a good place for supporters to go. I (like the panel on the show Friday evening) believe we Irish could put on a serious show for the travelling supporters. Our hospitality is renowned and we take rugby seriously. I'd like to think we are a welcoming people and respectful (for the most part). I think the atmosphere at some of the games would be amazing and we could really try an infuse some of our Celtic culture into pre match routines the way the Kiwi's did with the Maori culture. We did a good job with the Special Olympics.

Our infrastructure is quite good now.
There are motorways to the main cities and trains and buses are relatively regular. One thing is for sure, no one would need to fly!

The IRFU said they'd be willing to do it and I think mentioned meeting the government at some point and said it may be an idea to look at doing it with Scotland or Wales as well as an option. The Government said they'd be interested in looking at the opportunity

David McWilliams said that even though RWC 2011 was supposed to be a financial disaster for NZ, they actually have made money off it. Only just but they did and obviously it will do great things for their tourist industry.

Some things that may be an issue:
The GAA not wanting to be involved.
The IRFU making a hames of ticket prices again
The lack 30,000+ stadiums for 1/4+1/2 finals
The IRB may want to send it to a developing nation.

What do people think?
Would you like the 2023 RWC to be in Ireland?
Will Stadiums be a huge problem?
Any other set backs you can think of?

gowales wrote:I'd prefer to see Argentina, Italy and South Africa (only because Japan will probably lose money) ahead on the list. But for 2023 i'd have them ahead of the US, Russia and those sorts of developing rugby countries.

Ha ha that's a pretty funny comment given one of the arguments for Japan was that gifting it to NZ would cost the IRB so much that they would have to recoup it with the big money from Japan.

Oh well at least when it is in Japan the time zones mean I can watch the games live.It would be an interesting experience to watch a NH located match at a relatively normal night time time. Mind you some of my fondest memories is getting up in the middle of the night to watch a game with my dad.

I don't think Japan will lose money - massive population who can afford to go to matches (and known for coming out and supporting these events). Also, they have plenty of suitable stadia after the soccer world cup and all their pro teams (which are sponsored by Japanese companies), seem to have loads of money to bring in big name players.

I doubt if Argentina could afford it (considering most their top players play in Europe), and their stadia look fairly ramshackle, Italy would be problematic as they don't have any stadia either and the soccer season will have started so they can forget about using their stadia.

ngan - I think the reason England got the next one and Japan was put off for the one after, was to recoup the losses from the NZ one.

I wasn't sure when voting whether "I think a developing rugby nation should get it" was a vote for or against Ireland.

I love the foe list on this site for comments like the above.

Developing rugby nation is meant as a country like Japan, Russia, USA, Argentina to a lesser extent Italy.

It looks like we are going for this lads, I expect the GAA to swell our lot and could see us making a huge bid mainly based around infrastructure, unique culture and rugby passion

Passed by GAA Central Council unanimously to put to next Congress. Looking good.

Selected stadia are: Pairc Ui Chaoimh (Cork), Casement Park (Belfast), Fitzgerald Stadium (Killarney), Gaelic Grounds (Limerick), Croke Park (Dublin). All have, or will have 40K+ capacity.

Sin é wrote:I don't think Japan will lose money - massive population who can afford to go to matches (and known for coming out and supporting these events). Also, they have plenty of suitable stadia after the soccer world cup and all their pro teams (which are sponsored by Japanese companies), seem to have loads of money to bring in big name players.

I doubt if Argentina could afford it (considering most their top players play in Europe), and their stadia look fairly ramshackle, Italy would be problematic as they don't have any stadia either and the soccer season will have started so they can forget about using their stadia.

And the GAA stadiums don't?!

The ones selected will all be top notch. Only 2 of those mentioned need work - Pairc Ui Chaoimh (Cork), Casement Park (Belfast) - both have the funds and plans to be redeveloped by 2015 into 40K all seater stadiums (cork is 45K all seater stadium).

Sin é wrote:I doubt if Argentina could afford it (considering most their top players play in Europe), and their stadia look fairly ramshackle......

What?
How many of our stadiums have you visited?
First, I remember you that Argentina hosted the 2010 Junior World Championship.
Second, SANZAR do not allow TRC games are played in "ramshackle" stadiums.
I invite you to see the matches of the tournament before speaking without knowledge.
Here let you an image of the "La Plata" stadium where will play the match Argentina vs New Zealand.


Do you still think is ramshackle?

gowales wrote:

Sin é wrote:I don't think Japan will lose money - massive population who can afford to go to matches (and known for coming out and supporting these events). Also, they have plenty of suitable stadia after the soccer world cup and all their pro teams (which are sponsored by Japanese companies), seem to have loads of money to bring in big name players.

I doubt if Argentina could afford it (considering most their top players play in Europe), and their stadia look fairly ramshackle, Italy would be problematic as they don't have any stadia either and the soccer season will have started so they can forget about using their stadia.

And the GAA stadiums don't?!

How many GAA stadiums have you been to? Just rhyme them off there.....you shouldn't pass comment when you clearly havent got any idea what you're talking about.

Roof it and they will Come. Ireland, that is - not Croke Park; which would still let the rain in through Hill 16 and be money piddled away anyway.... so to speak.

Looks like its official, good shout Pete!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/19305676

Roof it and don't allow motorcross or music concerts to compromise the turf. NZ stadia are small but you could eat your dinner off the turf. MS is a great stadium but the turf is often a disgrace. You don't have to have the total package but you need to do the basics right to ensure a great rugby spectacle.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

gowales wrote:

Sin é wrote:I don't think Japan will lose money - massive population who can afford to go to matches (and known for coming out and supporting these events). Also, they have plenty of suitable stadia after the soccer world cup and all their pro teams (which are sponsored by Japanese companies), seem to have loads of money to bring in big name players.

I doubt if Argentina could afford it (considering most their top players play in Europe), and their stadia look fairly ramshackle, Italy would be problematic as they don't have any stadia either and the soccer season will have started so they can forget about using their stadia.

And the GAA stadiums don't?!

How many GAA stadiums have you been to? Just rhyme them off there.....you shouldn't pass comment when you clearly havent got any idea what you're talking about.

Well i'm just saying that they don't look better than the Argentinian ones, quite a few of theirs are brand new as well. If NZ can hold a world cup with their dreadful stadiums then i'm pretty sure Argentina can.

Sin é wrote:I don't think Japan will lose money - massive population who can afford to go to matches (and known for coming out and supporting these events). Also, they have plenty of suitable stadia after the soccer world cup and all their pro teams (which are sponsored by Japanese companies), seem to have loads of money to bring in big name players.

I doubt if Argentina could afford it (considering most their top players play in Europe), and their stadia look fairly ramshackle, Italy would be problematic as they don't have any stadia either and the soccer season will have started so they can forget about using their stadia.

Soccer stadiums apart from Wembley are absolutely useless for playing top level International rugby.

Not necessarily. Most of the soccer stadiums in (continental) Europe are pretty good for rugby. Look at the San Siro or Stade Veledrome.

Never seen them.

Fair enough, your guys played Italy at the San Siro a few years back if that jogs your memory

rodders wrote:Looks like its official, good shout Pete!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/19305676

Cheers Rodders!

One thing I saw written in this article which I can clarify to people who want to know is the line:

"The IRFU has said that significant government funding would have to be forthcoming for a bid to be considered."

I can say for a fact that the government is willing to put in the required money

good luck ireland. Its not a waste of money. Time for ireland to become a player. Sport is the one thing that our countries can do well if we put some money and time into

Sin é wrote:ngan - I think the reason England got the next one and Japan was put off for the one after, was to recoup the losses from the NZ one.

Oops you're right I forgot about England.

A lot of our GAA stadia would need to be redeveloped for this to work. Croker, Thurles, Gaelic Grounds, Clones and maybe Pearse Stadium aside, some are in a terrible state.


Is it a wise investment, not in my view, you don't tend to make money back on World Cups. Be they soccer or rugby. Redeveloping would have to started by around 2017, we will be largely out of major shoite by that stage, so I suppose it could be doable.



Pete, I'm not going to give you credit for this, I've always said the GAA will do anything if you give them enough money

Thomond I am not sure what you mean by not getting the money back- do you just mean on the WC books here- because you will receve 10 times that in tourisim

In general, you don't always make money from hosting tournaments. Obviously Ireland won;t need as much done as say South Africa did for their WC but I don't think we would make money from this, happiness is the main thing a country gets out of a WC, a lot of work would need to be done to the GAA stadia

I think people misunderstand what the economy gets back to be honest Thomond

You rarely make a profit on a tournament though, the money you get in from Tourism and general spending doesn't tend to equal or better the infrastructure on roads, hotels, airports (if needs be) or stadia. It's how it is, you're more likely to make one or have a chance of making one here but it's still a difficult task.

Thomond the majority of the spending in the first place is on labour anyway- creating jobs within your community- rather than dishing out on benefits.

so even a loss on a WC books will still still stimulate the job market and your economy and isnt a real genuine loss.

Second tourism gained will bring so much momney into your economy that wouldnt have otherwise.

People spout on about losses - in truth at worse any loss is normally given back to the community and business anyway

They are temporary jobs yes, but sure better than nothing and with our building trade gone some thing like this would help a lot. I wouldn't agree fully but a lot of it is I suppose.

Point is thomond- people spout on about loses etc and never look at the bigger pictiure. The reality is for ireland it will be a good thing I am sure. You may run 5-50 million loss on revenue against cost to stage- but most of the cost will go back to your community anyway and the money you get in from tourism in to your communities could be close to 100 million as well

Always figured that GAA would step up to the plate. Although the timing of the event would be interesting. September 18 is the agreed start date for RWC 2015.

If this holds, it should be okay.

IRFU say they need ten stadia in total - 6 from GAA.

So that means:

Croke Park - Dublin - 82,000
Lansdowne Road Dublin - 52,000
Thomond Park - Limerick - 26,000
Pairc Ui Chaoimh - Cork - 40,000
Fitzgerald - Killarney - 43,000
Casement - Belfast - 40,000
Ravenhill - Belfast - 20,000??
Pearse Stadium - Galway - 36,000
Gaelic Grounds - Limerick - 50,000

Where would be the tenth stadium? RDS? A soccer stadium? North-east and south west not covered under this spread. Derry/Donegal? Waterford/Kilkenny? However, population densities are needed.

Outside of Croker, Lansdowne and Thomond, I suspect that all the other stadia would need work. Some of this may be already planned. However, given the weather situation in Ireland, a lot more covered stands are needed for some of the GAA stadia - in a lot of cases, there's only one covered stand currently. Also given the bigger size of GAA pitches, temporary seating and stands may be needed to bring the action "closer to the pitch". Media and TV facilities would need to be upgraded in some venues, along with improved gate and ticketing facilities. Parking, access and transport shouldn't be an issue since all the stadia are used regularly by large fan numbers already.

Only going for ten stadia (NZ had 12/13) would point to a greater concentration of teams in particular cities/towns. Irish fans would travel pretty much anywhere in Ireland - they'd get up on a cracked plate for a sporting occasion.

The adopt a team network established and used during the Special Olympics could easily be resurrected - far less teams/retinues to cater for in a RWC.

How are we gonna redevelop these stadiums, when every single Irish labourer and tradesman is living in Perth?

Pot, you're forgetting that PUC will be redeveloped to around 50k bu that stage. All seater I think too, but might be wrong on that. I think you might have to spread out those stadia too, only 2 from Ulster on your list and one in Connacht. McHale Park is around 40k would do the job with some redvelopment.

I think every GAA stadium would need work to be honest.

Thomond wrote:Pot, you're forgetting that PUC will be redeveloped to around 50k bu that stage. All seater I think too, but might be wrong on that. I think you might have to spread out those stadia too, only 2 from Ulster on your list and one in Connacht. McHale Park is around 40k would do the job with some redvelopment.

I think every GAA stadium would need work to be honest.

Thomand your right PUC will be all an all seater. I think the GAA want to redevelope these stadiums and this is the push they need.

I could be wrong but I think it's 60k for concerts too, or that was in the original plan a few years back, maybe could be put in for rugby. Munster will have a spot for neutral HEC semis should the day come again......

Thomond wrote:I could be wrong but I think it's 60k for concerts too, or that was in the original plan a few years back, maybe could be put in for rugby. Munster will have a spot for neutral HEC semis should the day come again......

You could also have the munster v leinster rabo games there.

It's at least 5 years away but I think Thomond will remain the spot for league clashes, a semi or something then yes it would sell out, could do so for Rabo games but not likely.

Thomond wrote:Pot, you're forgetting that PUC will be redeveloped to around 50k bu that stage. All seater I think too, but might be wrong on that. I think you might have to spread out those stadia too, only 2 from Ulster on your list and one in Connacht. McHale Park is around 40k would do the job with some redvelopment.

I think every GAA stadium would need work to be honest.

Hi Thomond. I wasn't forgetting about PUC being redeveloped. I know there's plans for some of them already in the pipeline. And I'm aware about seating - though a lot of it is uncovered, and I think they'll need to look at that for some of the stadia - although this may prove problematic from a local planning perspective if it would affect local housing, a la Lansdowne.

My list of GAA stadia comes from the IRFU/GAA recent public comments, not from me. I don't even know if a revamped Ravenhill would be considered for an RWC - might still be too small.

I outlined in an earlier post, earlier this year, the stadium options that could be considered for a wider geographical spread - McHale is one of these. However, a GAA spokesman is quoted as saying the IRFU are looking at only ten stadia to run the event. That would point to some of the finals venues being used for pool stage matches wherever possible. And if the midweek matches with shorter turnarounds continues from 2015, it places a greater pressure on the ten venues to deliver crowds every time. This would argue that the venues for the British and French teams should be on the East coast, for easy access. Ireland team might/should move around the country. In theory, where would England like to be based for pool stages? At home in Pennyhill? Or where for Scotland or France with large fan numbers?

Argie fan wrote:

Sin é wrote:I doubt if Argentina could afford it (considering most their top players play in Europe), and their stadia look fairly ramshackle......

What?
How many of our stadiums have you visited?
First, I remember you that Argentina hosted the 2010 Junior World Championship.
Second, SANZAR do not allow TRC games are played in "ramshackle" stadiums.
I invite you to see the matches of the tournament before speaking without knowledge.
Here let you an image of the "La Plata" stadium where will play the match Argentina vs New Zealand.


Do you still think is ramshackle?

Apologies, I didn't mean to sound so condecending. That looks like a very nice stadium, but its not big enough to host a world cup final (needs to be 60K minimum).

It seems that Argentina are only playing the ABs in this stadium - presumably because they will be a big enough draw. Only 23K & 20K attended the Argentina v France games recently (with 10K turning up for the Italy game).

Argentina have a lot of big stadiums with the football, if they can get access to them they could host an unbelievable World Cup

Ireland could do this. It may be our only chance. What a thing it would be...

Notch wrote:Argentina have a lot of big stadiums with the football, if they can get access to them they could host an unbelievable World Cup

Ireland could do this. It may be our only chance. What a thing it would be...

Ireland will host a RWC. If not in 2023 then sometime else down the line.

One or two might be a bit ramshackle Notch (Brazil in a similar scenario with their stadia had to get a lot of redevelopment for the next soccer world cup)

Thomond wrote:Pot, you're forgetting that PUC will be redeveloped to around 50k bu that stage. All seater I think too, but might be wrong on that. I think you might have to spread out those stadia too, only 2 from Ulster on your list and one in Connacht. McHale Park is around 40k would do the job with some redvelopment.

I think every GAA stadium would need work to be honest.

PUC is going to be redeveloped into a 45K seater. Cork will also have Musgrave as a smaller venue.
Casement is being developed into a 40K seater by end of 2014/15. GAA have got 71m to do that (17m from Croke Park, the rest from NI executive).
All the rest of the GAA stadia that have been named have had work done on them recently other than those 2. Money would have to be invested though in development media facilities.

Looks to me that they have selected cities that could have more than one venue available to them like Belfast would have Ravenhill & Casement, Galway would have Pearse & Sportsground.

Are you sure 50k was what I last heard. An upgrade is needed but it's unnecessary in a lot of ways,


Sportsground couldn't host a RWC game, it's what 5k? 10 at most.

Thomond wrote:Are you sure 50k was what I last heard. An upgrade is needed but it's unnecessary in a lot of ways,


Sportsground couldn't host a RWC game, it's what 5k? 10 at most.

Sorry, the redevelopment is costing €45K and it will be between 45-50K capacity.

Páirc Uí Chaoimh is a dump - it needs to be upgraded.

Sportsground could host a game between someone like Samoa v Japan!

Sin é wrote:

PUC is going to be redeveloped into a 45K seater. Cork will also have Musgrave as a smaller venue.
Casement is being developed into a 40K seater by end of 2014/15. GAA have got 71m to do that (17m from Croke Park, the rest from NI executive).
All the rest of the GAA stadia that have been named have had work done on them recently other than those 2. Money would have to be invested though in development media facilities.

Looks to me that they have selected cities that could have more than one venue available to them like Belfast would have Ravenhill & Casement, Galway would have Pearse & Sportsground.

Musgrave won't be used - too small. Ditto Sportsground. They need 15-18k minimum. It's ten stadia.

Dublin x 2
Limerick x 2
Cork x 1
Belfast x 1
Galway x 1
Killarney x 1

Two more stadia to that list - and not from the GAA. Ravenhill, RDS, possibly. Or possibly an FAI/IFA stadium?

Don't know about this WRU gentlemen's agreement to use the Millennium, but, if true, I hope they tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. It should not move outside the island of Ireland. It should be an IRFU bid or not at all.

WRU wanna utilse the millenium stadium again!!! what a surprise!!

We have the problem that the Rugby World Cup is played during the Pro12 season remember. So Ravenhill, RDS, Musgrave, Sportsground will also need to accommodate the provinces.

A fairly thankless task. I'll be watching to see how the Aviva Prem copes with this in 2012.

Why does the RWC disrupt the NH season so much, but fits snugly into the SH season just after their Trinations/Rugby Championship?

Shouldn't the competition be moved to accommodate the NH season when it's being held there?

Feckless Rogue wrote:Why does the RWC disrupt the NH season so much, but fits snugly into the SH season just after their Trinations/Rugby Championship?

Shouldn't the competition be moved to accommodate the NH season when it's being held there?

It doesn't. Or rather it didn't. There were no June internationals and the TriNations was truncated in order for it to start on time in NZ. All the IRB big nations complained that they lose revenue in an RWC year. No June or November tours. NZ said they wouldn't turn up if it started earlier and they didn't get a bigger slice of revenue because of lost tour money. Ditto the other nations. Well in fact it was all about the money really. It always is.