Ireland to host Rugby World Cup in 2023?

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Ireland to host Rugby World Cup?

I was listening to a piece on Newstalk on Friday evening about this and it seemed quite serious truth be told. Economist David McWilliams was on, former Irish coach Eddie O Sullivan, IRFU spokespeople and transport and sport Minister Leo Varadkar was on too lending his support.

All spoke about it being a distinct possibility that Ireland would submit an application to host the 2023 RWC.

Many points for and against this obviously.

The main issue seemed to be stadiums of the right quality. NZ spent 300m or something like that on developing their stadiums to make sure they were to a certain standard for the RWC. The people on air recognised early on that without the support of the GAA Ireland's bid would die as they own a lot of stadiums, but more importantly the only stadium in Ireland over 60,000 (a necessity to host a RWC final).

Assuming the GAA would support the bid (which is by no means a sure thing) Ireland's stadiums would include:

Croke Park
Lansdowne Road
Thomond Park
Ravenhill -needs to be developed
The RDS -needs to be developed
The Sportsground- needs to be developed
A GAA stadium in Castlebar can't remember the name
Another GAA stadium in the midlands can't remember the name

There are others like Musgrave Park and Donnybrook etc too.

On the stadiums front, they may be a bit small to host 1/4 and 1/2 finals. Obviously the final would be in Croke but in the 1/4's we'd need 4 big stadiums and we may be a bit short there IMO. I'm not sure what stadiums the kiwi's used for the 1/4's tbh.

Other things that were discussed on the show were, the Irish volunteering spirit. The Kiwi's really bought into the RWC as it's such a huge part of their culture and they really made it a good place for supporters to go. I (like the panel on the show Friday evening) believe we Irish could put on a serious show for the travelling supporters. Our hospitality is renowned and we take rugby seriously. I'd like to think we are a welcoming people and respectful (for the most part). I think the atmosphere at some of the games would be amazing and we could really try an infuse some of our Celtic culture into pre match routines the way the Kiwi's did with the Maori culture. We did a good job with the Special Olympics.

Our infrastructure is quite good now.
There are motorways to the main cities and trains and buses are relatively regular. One thing is for sure, no one would need to fly!

The IRFU said they'd be willing to do it and I think mentioned meeting the government at some point and said it may be an idea to look at doing it with Scotland or Wales as well as an option. The Government said they'd be interested in looking at the opportunity

David McWilliams said that even though RWC 2011 was supposed to be a financial disaster for NZ, they actually have made money off it. Only just but they did and obviously it will do great things for their tourist industry.

Some things that may be an issue:
The GAA not wanting to be involved.
The IRFU making a hames of ticket prices again
The lack 30,000+ stadiums for 1/4+1/2 finals
The IRB may want to send it to a developing nation.

What do people think?
Would you like the 2023 RWC to be in Ireland?
Will Stadiums be a huge problem?
Any other set backs you can think of?

Sounds like a good spread;

Dublin x 3
Limerick x 2
Belfast x 2
Galway x 1
Cork x 1
Kerry x 1

So that is:

Croke Park - 82,300
Aviva Stadium - 52,000
Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 50,000
Gaelic Grounds - 50,000
Fitzgerald Stadium - 43,000
Pearse Stadium - 34,000
Casement Park - 32,600
Thomond Park - 26,000
RDS Arena - 20,000
Ravenhill Stadium - 18,000

If we wouldn't lose money as a country I would be happy.

You'd have good capacity stadia for knockout games:

Quarters could be in Galway, Dublin, Limerick and Belfast.
Semis in Dublin and Cork.
Final in Dublin.

They should also look at expanding the RDS, by then Leinster's support base will probably be much bigger

Im not sure they need to GoWales.

Leinster can use Aviva Stadium whenever they need to. Leinster v Munster is always in Aviva Stadium and they have played Heineken Cup pool matches there too.

Also they don't own the RDS so its not really their call to upgrade it.

No team can continue to win and I think approx 20,000-30,000 is all a club stadium should be. Anything larger simply leads to poor atmosphere.

I remember when we (Munster) redeveloped Thomond Park and the media were saying "Oh its only 26,000, it should be much larger as the fan base will continue to grow. Munster could get 40,000 to a pool match" but really once you stop winning the bandwagon fans won't come in the same numbers.

Maybe they could redo Donnybrook? The world cup would be an incentive.

Yea maybe but it would be a MASSIVE expense to do that. Donnybrook has just 2,000 seats and the rest are terraces. It can hold just 6,000 people. To get that to the level Leinster would want is going to be massive. I know that they they last proposed to develop it, planning permission was denied.

Ignore my suggestion above, it's a bit of a waste of money and will never happen

It does get suggested from time to time though. The reason being the Leinster own Donnybrook and don't own the RDS so they wouldn't have to pay rent. (bit like the Blues and Arms Park/CCS)

However as it stands there just doesnt seem to be the ability to do it successfully.

I Heard the RDS is up for sale to a company who would be willing to call it the "Vodafone arena" or something of such nature

My understanding is that Leinster have said to the RDS, we’re your major tenant, we bring the crowds and we’d like you to improve one of the stands, the RDS management group then put the naming rights for the RDS arena (as opposed to the entire RDS complex which is bloody huge!) up for sale for 15m, if they find an interested party they get their money, they rebuild the stand and Leinster pay nothing.

Sounds like good business to me, and sure we’ll still all call it the RDS anyway.

Haha there is that, feel sorry for the guys who churn out millions for stadiums!!

Going back a few paces, would people like to see Ireland play one of their pool games in the Sportsground to get Connacht more interested in rugby?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I Heard the RDS is up for sale to a company who would be willing to call it the "Vodafone arena" or something of such nature

Is this the "Naming rights" for sale to Liberty mutual for €15M story? or another one?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Haha there is that, feel sorry for the guys who churn out millions for stadiums!!

Going back a few paces, would people like to see Ireland play one of their pool games in the Sportsground to get Connacht more interested in rugby?

I think everyone in Ireland would be interested in rugby if the World Cup came calling.... Connacht people too.

It would be a party and Ireland is too small a country that certain areas would feel left out of the loop on that front - whether they get an Irish pool game or not.

The country in its entirety would be interested in rugby..................... for the duration (just like the Olympics when everyone for a week wants to become expert archers, gymnasts and fencers as they wait for the 'real Olympics to start in the second week)

So the interest would be there countrywide (pool games or not)... but that interest would undoubtedly whittle itself away too in the weeks and months following the final.

What will keep rugby growing in this country and therefore also in Connacht is success of Irish teams. Participation in events is a fleeting interest deal - success at Provincial level and, most especially, the halting of the dangerous slide at International level will be the real goal of increasing interest in rugby in Connacht and sustaining it.

Well I can't see Ireland getting to play all their games in Dublin, that would just be a little bit too neat and tidy! :p I can see one being played up North and one down in Munster at least.

Where would the semi finals go as well? Quarter finals are easy enough to spread out but semis we need the big 4 on display in 1 weekend.

Croke Part
Lansdowne
Casement??
Park Ui Cuoimh?

Semi Finals.

One in Park Ui Chaoimh and the other one in Croke Park.

It's Páirc Uí Chaoimh lads, and it will be 50k all seater, possibly 60k for rugby by the time it rolls around. Ireland would play a group game there ,fingers crossed.


Gaelic Grounds should have a QF

Lads, can anything be done about the fact that often GAA pitches are much larger than rugby pitches and every game will be played slightly removed from the fans in the crowd. Maybe the WC factor would negate that but it’s something they could look at, what’s the largest possible size for a rugby pitch?

100m long and 70m wide is the maximum Mick for the playing area.

I know the GAA is 80m wide and upto 145m long.

That is a very good question, I can remember it being a problem in Croke park. Ehm......I don't know, I know in soccer they can change the size of the pitch between a certain amount and a certain amount. Not too sure on Rugby.

It may not be a problem but it most certainly could be. I'll never forget being in the terrace of the Rabo final this year, right beside where the scrums were going down at the end of the first half. I was 10 metres away from the scrum and the atmosphere was something I've never felt before as it was just so hostile you were right involved in the game. I'd hope you wouldn't miss that if it was at a GAA stadium.

You bring in temporary stands, that's why the likes of PAirc Uí Chaoimh could go up to 60k.


If you think you're removed from the crowd, try watching a baseball match in the top tier!

Could you bring in temporary stands though?

Surely you couldn't move 1 stand in infront of another one? Or am I being silly?
Maybe in to the corners would be a good bet.

My sources main worry with the GAA grounds were

a) disrepair (in a few)
b) space for media representation
c) facilities for players/coaches/medical staff/other staff

Any GAA-head know anything about any of the stadiums with regards to those?

Most will be done up Pete and the ones mentioned are in an okay state bar one or two that need serious work.


RTE are in most fo them for GAA matches, studios and the likes but there isn't a press box I suppose or anything like that but there are better seats with nice vantage points and that. Facilities are grand on the mediacal side, you swear the GAA were in the dark ages with that comment, a few things to be done up here and there but nothing major except in Cork which is getting revamped.

I am just commenting on what my source said.

I am delighted by the idea of this I must say and think it is a good thing the GAA are joining in as well.

I hope there won't be any cheesy music and bad PA announcers a la Lansdowne Road of late

Work done on Fitzgerald statium in Killarney (really spectaular setting).

In the winter of 2008/2009 the first phase in the redevelopment was finished. Among the changes are the following:

* Extension of terracing at Lewis Rd end as far as the stand. The terracing is designed in such a way as to allow its continuation along the stand side if and when the stand is upgraded. Spectators will enter new terracing through a tunnel at ground level or through stairways to the centre of the terrace.

* There is also additional entrance/exit stairs to the old terracing at the rear of the Lewis Rd goal.

* The new terracing will accommodate an additional 4,000 spectators bringing stadium capacity to 43,000. Further development will be undertaken to raise this to 50,000.

* There are 4 large dressing rooms underneath the new terrace with individual showering and toilet facilities. Each player will have individual changing areas as in Croke Park.

* There is also provision for medical and physio staff as well as a separate area for mentors. Players will now exit the dressing rooms via a tunnel.

The GAA used a lot of the money from hosting Rugby & Soccer in Croke Park to upgrade facilities around the country.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kman999/908564105/#/photos/kman999/908564105/lightbox/

Mickado wrote:Lads, can anything be done about the fact that often GAA pitches are much larger than rugby pitches and every game will be played slightly removed from the fans in the crowd. Maybe the WC factor would negate that but it’s something they could look at, what’s the largest possible size for a rugby pitch?

I don't think any are as big as Croke Park, so it won't be worse than that. What should help the atmosphere is the terracing.

btw, 18 games were played in two stadia in NZ. Eden Park = 11 games and Westpac = 7 so it seems possible that Croke Park & the Aviva would be well able to cope with semi finals & finals on their own.

I'm surprised the IRFU are humble enough to do this if I'm honest given that they'll have to play the final in Croker. But fair play to them. I'd love us to get it.

Yeah it's a big deal fOr them I'd say, absolutely delightedthey r givin it abash though!

Ryanair are gonna love this lads!!! If you were planning of opening a hotel r pub near a stadium this could be the thing that wud make u go for it

Albeit maybe wait a while

I'm not surprised the GAA are doing it, I wouldn't be surprised if the final is in Lansdowne which would be a bit of a joke.

I'm delighted that this is being considered. I hate joint bids, and would love Ireland to put together a solo bid. It would be a fantastic World Cup.

If Ireland propose having the final in a 50,000 seat stadium while leaving an 85,000 seat stadium lying empty they will lose the bid.

RWC Final: Croke Park (Dublin)

Semi 1: Croke Park (Dublin)
Semi 2: Páirc Úi Chaoimh (Cork)

Quarter 1: Casement Park (Belfast)
Quarter 2: Gaelic Grounds (LimericK)
Quarter 3: Aviva Stadium (Dublin)
Quarter 4: Pearse Stadium (Galway)

Think Lansdowne gets a semi if it doesn't get the final (which it shouldn't)
Croker is only 82/83k.

red_stag wrote:If Ireland propose having the final in a 50,000 seat stadium while leaving an 85,000 seat stadium lying empty they will lose the bid.

RWC Final: Croke Park (Dublin)
3rd/4th place play off: Aviva Stadium (Dublin)

Semi 1: Croke Park (Dublin)
Semi 2: Páirc Úi Chaoimh (Cork)

Quarter 1: Casement Park (Belfast)
Quarter 2: Gaelic Grounds (LimericK)
Quarter 3: Aviva Stadium (Dublin)
Quarter 4: Pearse Stadium (Galway)

Looks good, i added one in though.

If thats the case I'd have Aviva Stadium and Pairc Ui Chaoimh for the semis.

I think that Cork is important for the semi final because it keeps them out of same city and its a larger all seater stadium.

Agreed Red Stag. The bid would have to maximise resources. Any hint of politics taking precedence over rugby and the bid would lose.

I'm pleased people are seriously considering proper solo bids, rather than clubbing together silly notions of "celtic" or "Euro" bids. The 1999 and 2007 World Cups were a shambles. Hard to remember who the hosts even were.

I really do hope that Ireland (and some day Scotland) get their heads screwed on and put together a credible solo bid, with a proper identity making for a proper tournament.

I know Pete suggested bring an Ireland game to Sportsground (no offence Pete but no way in hell should that happen) Pearse Stadium yes, Sportsground no way.


I think Ireland should rotate their games if we do get it. Game in Belfast, Lansdowne, Cork/Limerick (Limeirck probably deserves it) and Galway. Also each province should get a group or 2.

Thomond wrote:I'm not surprised the GAA are doing it, I wouldn't be surprised if the final is in Lansdowne which would be a bit of a joke.

I think your views of GAA are coloured by the antics of Cork Gaa (Frank Murphy). There are a few up in Ulster who are dinasaurs as well, but in general the gaa is a very progressive organisation and is very well run in that they have very good professional staff. I got the impression that the IRFU & GAA got on well during the Croke Park times and that the IRFU would have preferred to be sharing Lansdowne with them rather than the FAI and dealing with Delaney with Delaney who is milking the FAI.

Lansdowne can't be used - the stadium needs to be bigger than 60K.

Another thing worth remembering is that the IRB HQ is in Dublin and its ceo is Irish. Its about time that Ireland got a look-in in hosting some games. (I believe the reason the IRB are HQed here is to avail of the corporate tax rates).

GAA will do anything for money Sin, I hate Frank and the Cork ilk but by and large it's a decent organisation.

Thomond wrote:GAA will do anything for money Sin, I hate Frank and the Cork ilk but by and large it's a decent organisation.

Considering they wouldn't let anyone pay them to use their grounds, they are hardly money grabbing.

Compare the IRFU & GAA with regard to ground development.

Munster had to borrow 15M from IRFU to develop Thomond (and have to pay it back). Ravenhill is getting nothing for their redevelopment.

The GAA are giving Casement 18m (to go along with whatever the NI executive are giving them - I think its around 50m) so they have about 70m to redeveop Casement.

Two venues held most the games in New Zealand. Eden Park had 11 games and Westpac had 7. All the rest had about 2/3 at most. Croke Park & Aviva will get majority of games.

The earthquake in Christchurch meant Auckland in particular had to take on more games. It wasn't an ideal situation.

Thomond, you lucky guy. 15M seems a bit steep for some nip tuck work but hope you're happy with the end result.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:15M seems a bit steep for some nip tuck work but hope you're happy with the end result.

A massive understatement.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The earthquake in Christchurch meant Auckland in particular had to take on more games. It wasn't an ideal situation.

Thomond, you lucky guy. 15M seems a bit steep for some nip tuck work but hope you're happy with the end result.

Munster had to raise 25m to match the 10m. Its amazing after 4 years that Munster only owe €10m to the IRFU for Thomond Park and didn't sell the naming rights!

Thank god for JP McManus and his very deep pockets (that haven't been affected by the recession).

(Kia, JP is a currency dealer/gambler and racehorse owner. Used to own Manchester Utd with John Magnier - sold it to the present lot and made a fortune on that).

Very deep pockets indeed! Maybe he should make the bid and not the IRFU.

[quote="Sin é"]

Thomond wrote:

Munster had to borrow 15M from IRFU to develop Thomond (and have to pay it back). Ravenhill is getting nothing for their redevelopment.

The IRFU's contribution to the Ravenhill redevelopment was the new Premium Stand that was built a couple of years ago. The current redevelopment is 100% funded by public (Government) money.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:GAA will do anything for money Sin, I hate Frank and the Cork ilk but by and large it's a decent organisation.

Considering they wouldn't let anyone pay them to use their grounds, they are hardly money grabbing.

Compare the IRFU & GAA with regard to ground development.

Munster had to borrow 15M from IRFU to develop Thomond (and have to pay it back). Ravenhill is getting nothing for their redevelopment.

The GAA are giving Casement 18m (to go along with whatever the NI executive are giving them - I think its around 50m) so they have about 70m to redeveop Casement.

Two venues held most the games in New Zealand. Eden Park had 11 games and Westpac had 7. All the rest had about 2/3 at most. Croke Park & Aviva will get majority of games.

The GAA don't open Corker if they don't get 1.75 million per game from the FAI and IRFU (think that was the figure). They will do most things for money, they will get a shedload from this probably more gate receipts than the IRFU and then some, your second point isn't really relevant I feel. Antrim would be 30 years repaying the GAA for that money, rugby is far different, more big clashes and more home games.

Thomond wrote:I know Pete suggested bring an Ireland game to Sportsground (no offence Pete but no way in hell should that happen) Pearse Stadium yes, Sportsground no way.


I think Ireland should rotate their games if we do get it. Game in Belfast, Lansdowne, Cork/Limerick (Limeirck probably deserves it) and Galway. Also each province should get a group or 2.

None taken buddy, was more of a thing that Irish matches should be moved around the country a bit I think. It would look good if Connacht in particular got one of the Irish games even if it was the equivalent of us playing Russia in the last RWC.

Do any other countries look like they are putting in a 2023 bid?

I'd say Argentina (meh), Russia (wont get it.. too much political instability), Italy (issues with soccer stadia being used) and SA (they will get it cause they will start whinging and yielding their power in the IRB).

Romania would be a decent location as well, but they would need to redevelop transport links at a rapid pace. One for the future though, definitely...

An Irish bid would be great. But SA will spit the dummy and get it I'd say.

Oh and the USA....

" Russia (wont get it.. too much political instability)"

tell fifa that

Interesting that you say Argentina meh and then Romania would be a great location!