Ulster return to Aironi in search of Five Points - Sat 17th December, Stadio Brianteo, Monza (kick off 1.30pm GMT)

First topic message reminder :

Ulster Coach Brian McLaughlin has only made one change in the starting lineup, bringing back Tom Court with Paddy McAllister moving to the bench. Nevin Spence has been named having been passed fit. Adam D'Arcy retains his place at full back with Terblanche on the bench.

Elsewhere in the Pool, Clermont defeated Leicester at the Stade Marcel Michelin 30-12 on Sunday with no bonus points scored, making Pool 4 the tightest in the tournament at this stage with just 2 points separating the top three teams.

Ulster Match Day Squad to face Aironi, Saturday 17th December, Stadio Brianteo, Monza (kick-off 1.30pm GMT)
(15-9): A D'Arcy; A Trimble, D Cave, N Spence, C Gilroy; I Humphreys, R Pienaar;
(1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (capt), D Tuohy, S Ferris, C Henry, P Wannenburg;
Replacements (16-23): N Brady, P McAllister, A Macklin, T Barker, R Diack, P Marshall, P Jackson, S Terblanche

The match is televised live on Sky Sports behind the red button.

Just like with Botha. Oh wait he actually played well recently for us...

Yeah, of course he is!

Taught him well we did!

How much you paying him again?

Is it a coincidence that most of Ulster's big signings are crokced while they're there? Botha, Pienaar and Payne.

Unlike Dougie Howlett?

First time he ahs been injured seriously in his 4 year stay.

Don Alfonso wrote:Something to do with his employment status.

Although I'm pretty sure he did feature as injury cover - maybe against Glasgow a couple of years ago?

Anyway, he couldn't get a proper contract and couldn't stay.

Ah okay I though it was going to be something more exotic,like he tried it on with the coaches wife.

And Christian Cullen? How did he fare?

Ah, the crack is ninety...

Two things, it's the banter is 90 and you spelt craic wrong.

Cullen was the biggest waste of money ever. Dougie is up there with Dr.Phil and Jim Williams for best import.

Up here it is definately the craic/crack is ninety!

The spelling is left up to the user!

Thomond wrote:Wait until you see JJ Hanrahan. That kid will be a playmaker.

When do you think he will start getting recognition/playing for Munster?

And do you know who first starting spelling it "craic"? Tawdry, cheap Irish bar chains in the eighties. It's originally a Scots/Northern English word, coming from the same root as "to crack a joke". The first written example of it is from Rabbie Burns. And if you look at the manuscript of that song "the crack was ninety the day we went to the Isle of Man", it's spelt "crack" there, and that's from early last century.

Writing "craic" is the equivalent of people in fifty years time writing that they "McLove" something. IMNSHO.

Agreed on Dougie.

Apologies on the crack! This could be like the whiskey/whisky argument.

Rory, he won't be playing for at least another 2/3 years but he is a baller.

Thomond wrote:Apologies on the crack! This could be like the whiskey/whisky argument.

Rory, he won't be playing for at least another 2/3 years but he is a baller.

Did I not read correctly that he was focusing on playing 10? I am pretty sure I saw that. I hope he plays at 12.

He is focusing on 10 but will end up playing 12 a few times at least. A class act.

I've heard he is very impressive.

He'll learn a lot from Paddy...

Steenson from Exeter

Ha ha ha - can you imagine the deflation if that turned out to be true!?

Hanrahan does look the part in the limited number of times i have seen him. Looks a tad small for 12 though. Could be a smashing 10.

anyway enough of this. This is the mindless speculation thread. Kaino! Kaino! Kaino!

Ferris wont be going anywhere if we sign Kaino, the thought of that is making our mouths water imagine what ferris is thinking they could do on a rugby pitch together!!!!!!

How would they line up? Ferris at eight? Has Kaino played eight? If we had those two on, would McLaughlin finally be prepared to play Faloon?

Both can play 8, however I think I would rather Ferris played 8 as he is the better ball carrier IMO, while Kaino is more of a defensive, devastating tackler. They are both very similar players though.

I genuinely dont think it would be a massive issue which one would play 8. To be fair Don i think since the Connacht game chris Henry is playing out of his skin at 7.

Backrower678 wrote:Ferris wont be going anywhere if we sign Kaino, the thought of that is making our mouths water imagine what ferris is thinking they could do on a rugby pitch together!!!!!!

Big dents?

In fairness you're right, Stand - haven't noticed him as much in the last couple of games. But that's maybe because he is still doing the traditional openside work, and I was at Ravenhill for the first Aironi game (it's hard to see the "unseen work" live) and only saw highlights of the second. Is he still paying well?

I just really wish we had a link man.

His tackles stats are by far the best in the team.

12 tackles 0 missed on saturday
14 and 0 missed against Leicester
10 tackles 1 missed against clermont
9 tackles 0 missed against Aironi at ravers

seems to be freeing up ferris to do his thing (as is wannenburg it seems)

Glas a du wrote:

Backrower678 wrote:Ferris wont be going anywhere if we sign Kaino, the thought of that is making our mouths water imagine what ferris is thinking they could do on a rugby pitch together!!!!!!

Big dents?

Damn right dents from people who have been smashed into the ground

Would ruin the pitch at Ravenhill though. Not sold on this idea just yet.

Being reported in the Tele.

"Elsewhere on the injury front, newly married prop Declan Fitzpatrick's neck problem is thought likely to keep him out of action for another fortnight "

That or the honeymoon - you decide

Mind you they are definitely not right re Luke Marshall - my understanding is he could play.

Also mention Paddy Jackson out as well as Spence but are claiming Spence is out because of an anke injury- whilst he has a minor one I think it is his ribs that are the main problem. No way he should play against Leinster in my opinion.

I honestly don't think Jackson is that bad but has to be doubtful for the holidays.

OK it is obvious to all now - we are talking to Kaino. He is indeed Filo's cousin. Ever since Filo has returned to the SH he has by all accounts being telling the world what a great club Ulster are and he really appreciates their efforts to get him an employment visa (he hadn't played enough games at the right level and was not an International so could get the right visa). As you all know Afoa was Kaino's best man and by all accounts has been telling him how welcome Ulster have made him feel.

Now talking is a long way off from signing - remember we were talking to Cory Jane last year and nothing came of it. However it does show, in a big way, the ambition of the club.

Hoever I totally agree that if we don't resign Pienaer, or equivalent, it is meaningless. There is no point having a candidate for the best pack in the NH and having half backs who are not good enough to deliver - without Pienaer that is the situation we would be in.

For the record Ferris is signed till 2013 at least
Wallace has already signed for next year for both Ireland and Ulster.
Kaino has played a lot of his rugby at 8

Thanks for the updates Geoff! Kaino would indeed be a dream signing and its a relief to know Ferris is signed to 2013..any updates on his knee? Kaino at 8 would be fantastic. Pedre has done well but you can't compare the two.

Agree we need to keep Pienaar as even with Marshall's excellent form we are short on top class option at both 9 and 10. In truth we could be doing with signing someone else still.

Any chance Paddy Wallace may move back to 10 more regularly now he is getting into the back end of his career?

roddersm wrote: Any chance Paddy Wallace may move back to 10 more regularly now he is getting into the back end of his career?

rodders even at his best Wallace wasnt all that great at 10 hes best off in the centre

Yeah I agree but he's older now and a bit more experienced.

Given how eratic IHumph has been he's worth another look there imo. Also when we have the full deck to select from we are quite strong in the centres. I'm just throwing it out there to see what people think.

All very positive and in fairness to Humph Snr and McL they obviously know where they are weak and are addressing it or at least trying to. You would hope having Payne and Afoa here would play to our advantage as some French team will pay silly money to get him.

I genuinely think we have been quite lucky in the last couple of years with our NIQs. They could not be described as mercenaries and they genuinely seem to be enjoying life here. I would be sorry to see Pedrie go as he is an honest player who gives his all but i suppose that is the nature of professional sport.

On the Paddy to 10 issue it will depend on who we can bring through first, jackson or marshall. Last year i thought Marshall was ready but injuries and (imo) poor selections have kept him back.

The back-line I really want to see out for Ulster is:

9) P. Marshall
10) Pienaar
11) Gilroy
12) Wallace
13) Spence
14) Trimble
15) D'Arcy

21) Humphreys
22) L. Marshall
23) Cave

Next season or so, Wallace to drop to the bench and Marshall to start.

So far I have been very disappointed with Luke Marshall's lack of game-time. He has been injured yes, but he got few chances when he was fit and the internationals were at the RWC. Really wanted to see him and Spence perform more together as they look like the future for both Ulster and Ireland.

Marshall got inured just before he was going to get some genuine game time - just really bad timing.

re the back line next year - Payne will be at 15

roddersm wrote:Yeah I agree but he's older now and a bit more experienced.

Given how eratic IHumph has been he's worth another look there imo. Also when we have the full deck to select from we are quite strong in the centres. I'm just throwing it out there to see what people think.

I thought they would have held onto O'Connor and tried working on him because of the lack of depth at 10 he did well for Connacht at the weekend against Gloucester hope he grows into the role there

Standulstermen wrote: I genuinely think we have been quite lucky in the last couple of years with our NIQs. They could not be described as mercenaries and they genuinely seem to be enjoying life here.

I think the key here is David Humphreys rather than luck - he has signed Payne, Afoa, Muller, Pienaer, Wannenberg, Terblanche and has spoken to Jane, Kaino and Peel. Some are better than others but overall that shows a man who can both spot and negotiate successfully with quality players.

Have the come for the money sure but at the same time it is clearly they genuinely like it here and are made to feel at home.
I am not worried, too much, about Kaino getting other offers, as it seems that speaking to Filo and Afoa is central to why he is potentially interested in Ulster above others.

I think Humph, will improve the more he plays now with Pienaar, it happened last year where the Pienaar-Humph axis actually looked good, hopefully the same will happen again this year. (maybe I'm just being hopeful)

Kaino would be amazing, it would mean the NIQ players we have would have would be all of the very highest standard.

If we got Kaino I bet no other team would have the same Quality of NIQ players that we have overall. Afoa, Muller, Kaino, Pienaar, and Payne amazing.

If (and it is a big if) we have a relatively injury free season we have genuine options for rotation

9. Pienaar/Small P
10. Humph/ Pienaar/ Wallace/Jackson
11. Gilroy/ Gaston/D'arcy
12. Wallace/ Marshall/Spence/Whitten
13. Cave/ Spence
14. Trimble/ Spence/ Cochrane
15. Payne/ D'arcy/ Nelson

Only 3 of those guys havent seen decent gametime for Ulster already. when everyone is fit there will be some big calls to be made in the centre. Payne will start and for me D'arcy should stay in the squad as he can play across in the back three unless we consider Gilroy sufficient back up.

Seeing as Paddy got a one year contract does anyone think he might retire once it is done?

geoff998rugby wrote:

Standulstermen wrote: I genuinely think we have been quite lucky in the last couple of years with our NIQs. They could not be described as mercenaries and they genuinely seem to be enjoying life here.

I think the key here is David Humphreys rather than luck - he has signed Payne, Afoa, Muller, Pienaer, Wannenberg, Terblanche and has spoken to Jane, Kaino and Peel. Some are better than others but overall that shows a man who can both spot and negotiate successfully with quality players.

Have the come for the money sure but at the same time it is clearly they genuinely like it here and are made to feel at home.
I am not worried, too much, about Kaino getting other offers, as it seems that speaking to Filo and Afoa is central to why he is potentially interested in Ulster above others.

it would have to be as we wouldnt be able to match the french clubs. No doubt Humph has been excellent in his acquisitions but i dont think we could have expected them to be as successful as they have, as regards taking to the province. I still cant believe we are discussing kaino!

geoff998rugby wrote:Marshall got inured just before he was going to get some genuine game time - just really bad timing.

re the back line next year - Payne will be at 15

Absolutely and Pienaar must start at 9. Marshall is very busy and is improving but Pienaar brings more calmness and confidence from that position. I also feel Humphries is gaining in confidence having him back in the team.

Kingshu wrote:I think Humph, will improve the more he plays now with Pienaar, it happened last year where the Pienaar-Humph axis actually looked good, hopefully the same will happen again this year. (maybe I'm just being hopeful)

I remember a piece during half time on BBC last year that showed the 2 competing to see who took the kicks in a game I think this helped as it was a regular thing

marty2086 wrote:

roddersm wrote:Yeah I agree but he's older now and a bit more experienced.

Given how eratic IHumph has been he's worth another look there imo. Also when we have the full deck to select from we are quite strong in the centres. I'm just throwing it out there to see what people think.

I thought they would have held onto O'Connor and tried working on him because of the lack of depth at 10 he did well for Connacht at the weekend against Gloucester hope he grows into the role there

I concur but hopefully Paddy Jackson will come through.

No takers on Wallace at 10 then?.....

roddersm wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

roddersm wrote:Yeah I agree but he's older now and a bit more experienced.

Given how eratic IHumph has been he's worth another look there imo. Also when we have the full deck to select from we are quite strong in the centres. I'm just throwing it out there to see what people think.

I thought they would have held onto O'Connor and tried working on him because of the lack of depth at 10 he did well for Connacht at the weekend against Gloucester hope he grows into the role there

I concur but hopefully Paddy Jackson will come through.

No takers on Wallace at 10 then?.....

As a means to bring luke Marshall through then yes but i cant see it in the big games.

Pienaar
Wallace/Humph
Gilroy
Marshall
Cave/Spence
Trimble
Payne

would be something i would like to see

Standulstermen wrote:

As a means to bring luke Marshall through then yes but i cant see it in the big games.

Pienaar
Wallace/Humph
Gilroy
Marshall
Cave/Spence
Trimble
Payne

would be something i would like to see

I actually like the look of that. I would add Jackson to the list of 10's. I must say I have been impressed with his strength in the two (bits) games he has played at 12.

The Ulster Ravens will face Munster A in the quarter-finals of the British & Irish Cup...

Following the conclusion of the pool stages, the British & Irish Cup 2011-12 quarter finals have been confirmed.
The Ulster Ravens, one of just four clubs to record four straight wins in the pool stages and will meet Munster A in a home quarter-final which will be played on the weekend of the 20/21 January.

Full details will be confirmed once Ulster's Heineken Cup dates for the Round 6 match v Clermont (which will be played on the same weekend) are known.

2009-10 winners Cornish Pirates will welcome fellow RFU Championship side Nottingham Rugby to The Mennaye for an all-English tie in January.

Leinster A are the third Irish side to push through to the quarter finals and will host Welsh Principality Premiership outfit Pontypridd, who finished top of their group with wins over Leeds Carnegie and Swansea.

In the fourth quarter final Llanelli travel to Cross Keys, the home side securing their path to the knock-out stages in their debut year in the competition.

2011-12 British & Irish Cup Quarter-finals

Cornish Pirates vs. Nottingham Rugby
Ulster vs. Munster A
Leinster A vs. Pontypridd
Cross Keys vs. Llanelli

All matches to be played w/e 20th January

I wonder will they play it at ravenhill and let all the ST holders in for free? I would hope so.

marty2086 wrote:

roddersm wrote:Yeah I agree but he's older now and a bit more experienced.

Given how eratic IHumph has been he's worth another look there imo. Also when we have the full deck to select from we are quite strong in the centres. I'm just throwing it out there to see what people think.

I thought they would have held onto O'Connor and tried working on him because of the lack of depth at 10 he did well for Connacht at the weekend against Gloucester hope he grows into the role there

In terms of ability Jackson is streets ahead of O'Connor at the same age.
My impression is Jackson has an instinctive rugby brain, NOC doesn't.

The consequence is in pressurized situations NOC rushes and mistakes mistakes, Jackson doesn't.
We now need to bring him on.

McKinney ain't bad either

Stand yes I don't mean starting Wallace in the big games at 10 but perhaps playing him there a bit more regularly to see how he goes.

Rava Jackson seems to have plenty of gas too, he looks like one of our quickest backs.

Perhaps 12(or even 15) is the place to bring him through then move him to 10 when he has some more experience?

It worked for Dan Carter ...