Who wins and why - Prime Calzaghe vs Andre Ward (Neutral Venue)?

Ward had too much speed for Froch, but how would he manage against a peak Joe Calzaghe?

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Calzaghe's still in he's prime. Don't believe the hype

Herman Jaggery wrote:Calzaghe's still in he's prime. Don't believe the hype

Not sure if thats a joke but Calzaghe is 39 and hasnt fought for over 3 and a half years. During that time he's been partying and snorting coke. To suggest that he's still in his prime is lunacy.

Anyway, to answer the OP I think it would be a close fight. Possibly a MD/SD type of battle.
Having seen his performance last night, I'd probably make Ward the slight favourite.

Ward to win a close fight based on what I have seen so far. He has a very strong inside game which i think Calzaghe struggle with alot. One of Calzaghes biggest strengths s his workrate but I think Ward style and inside game shuts it down effectively and smothers Calzaghes work. Calzaghe might get the better of the outside battle but I think Ward will impose his game on Calzaghe and ultimately wins a close fight by a couple of rounds.

Calzaghe by clear and comfortbale decision, his workrate is something Ward has yet to deal with and unlike the likes of Kessler and Froch he has a speed advantage both hand and foot to keep him on the outside.

Does he have a hand and speed advantage though?


Would be good to get some opinions.


Personally not sure he does

Imperial Ghosty Today at 7:56 pm

Calzaghe by clear and comfortbale decision, his workrate is something Ward has yet to deal with and unlike the likes of Kessler and Froch he has a speed advantage both hand and foot to keep him on the outside.

couldn't have put it better myself

Would question whether Calzaghe really holds any notable speed advantage over Ward, to be honest. Ward doesn't throw punches in bunches as often as Calzaghe did, which can maybe make him seem a little more sluggish, but those single shots or one-twos that he throws are usually delivered at a considerable pelt. Would add that Ward's lateral movement seems a fair bit better than Calzaghe's, too.

I'd say it's a pick 'em, personally. Might still just tip my hat to Calzaghe by the thinnest of margins, but that's involving a little bit of guess work as we're still a little unsure of how good Ward may end up being. Would say he's certainly a cut above anything Calzaghe faced at 168 lb, and obviously the same applies in reverse.

I think a key aspect is that Ward, no doubt in my head at least, would have to take more clean shots in twelve rounds against Calzaghe than he has done in the whole of the Super Six tournament. Calzaghe wasn't too bad on the inside, but from what I've seen Ward would be winning the battle of brute strength, vital if he's going to smother Calzaghe's superb workrate. If there's a tiny fault with Ward thus far, it's that he's prone to taking the odd breather in certain rounds, going off the boil for a couple of minutes here and there and perhaps admiring his own work a little. Big mistake against Calzaghe, although part of me feels he may be one of those fighters who fights to the level of their opponent at times.

Calzaghe SD two times out of three, Ward UD the other time. Very difficult one to call and two very evenly-matched fighters, I'd imagine.

Theres no way either fighter wins this comfortably in my view. It has all the hallmarks of a close fight and a real battle.

Calzaghe Hopkins 2, the first few rounds, only Ward has untold stamina. Calzaghe slowed. Ward's fight to lose for me it really is

Calzaghe slowed down when?

Against Hopkins. Many a moon. Remember? Sky commentatory

Calzaghe didn't really slow down against Hopkins at all, quite the opposite.

he didn't look great though did he, and he wouldn't accept a rematch in his own backyard off an sd

just feel Ward would dictate the tempo, no big deal

He didn't look great because Hopkins is a master of such things but not even he could nulify Calzaghes work rate nor is he duty bound to rematch someone after a close fight.

Not many do look great against Hopkins though, even if they beat him. He's a canny old bleeder, the best in the business at negating an opponent's strengths and forcing them to fight in a way that isn't natural to them.

Will admit that I've never been able to bring myself to watch that fight again since it happened, as it was a truly turgid affair, but unless my memory is playing tricks on me Calzaghe won that fight - and he did just about win it, on my card - via sheer workrate as Hopkins began to gas, so I'd say Ghosty's workrate point is still valid. Still disagree massively that either would win 'comfortably' in this hypoethtical match up, mind you, but I've already given my reasons for that above.

Ward physically stronger than Hopkins too. I could even see it an easy night for Ward. Cheers

I say comfortably in the form of a 117-111 scorecard chris, Ward is brilliant at what he does which is counter punch fairly low volume fighters which is why I think he would be befuddled somewhat by Calzaghes work rate. Kessler and Froch can up their work rates but it's not there natural game unlike it was with Calzaghe, considering I feel that Hopkins even at 43 does everything Ward does but better furthers the gap.

Herman Jaggery wrote:Ward physically stronger than Hopkins too. I could even see it an easy night for Ward. Cheers

I would have to strongly question Ward being stronger than Hopkins, a man who could outmuscle the best light heavyweights in the world.

I'd go for a peak Calzaghe at this moment. But obviously we don't know how good Ward can be yet.

Ward beats him everyday of the week for me, Froch and Calzaghe would have been a war but Ward totally outclassed Froch to the extent he made him look like a journeyman.
I admire what Calzaghe done in boxing but for me an old Hopkins clearly beat him and if he struggled that much to hit Hopkins he is gonna be slapping thin air against a craftsman like Ward.

Calzaghe beat Kessler by roughly a 4 round margin so the thought he would beat a vastly superior boxer like Ward by an even bigger margin is far fetched.
I can see a case for Calzaghe winning but there would only be a round or two in it.
He got the decision against Hopkins but it could have easily gone the other way. I agree with Herman that the rather debatable manner of the victory certainly warranted a rematch.

I pick Calzaghe but only just. This was my first proper look at Ward and he was bloody impressive and like Manos and Chris, I can only see a close fight between him and Joe.

I think that Joe presents Ward with a problem he hasn't seen before with his workrate and sheer volume of punches delivered with good hand speed and I see Joe having the last word in most exchanges. As Chris mentioned, it's noticeable that Ward takes a few breathers and he tired a bit in the last couple of rounds. He'd lose those rounds convincingly to Calzaghe.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

Herman Jaggery wrote:Ward physically stronger than Hopkins too. I could even see it an easy night for Ward. Cheers

I would have to strongly question Ward being stronger than Hopkins, a man who could outmuscle the best light heavyweights in the world.

Agreed - strange one that. Can't really see Ward as stronger than Hopkins Ward is deceptively strong - for sure - but Hopkins has bullied some of the best LHWs in the world - he's a very very good fighter.

manos de piedra wrote:Theres no way either fighter wins this comfortably in my view. It has all the hallmarks of a close fight and a real battle.

Equally agree. I'd probably back Chris' pick - of them splitting a 3 fight series with Ward taking a UD and Calzaghe eking a couple of SDs. It bears all the hallmarks of a Calzaghe-Hopkins affair. There's an argument to suggest that Ward wouldn't gas as Hopkins did - but equally - if Ward showed signs of fatigue against Froch - he'd show signs of fatigue against Calzaghe - who has a higher workrate. Would that make a difference? We can only conjecture - but for sure - its a fight, prime for prime, we'd love to have seen.

We could then come onto a discussion of when exactly Calzaghe's prime actually was - was it Lacy? Or was it Kessler? Or was it yet earlier when he was famed as a SMW puncher?

Either way, lots to ponder.

Calzaghe vs Kessler was a fight, Ward vs Kessler was a onesided masterclass with Ward winning nearly every minute of every round. Ward has fought the best and beat the best in his division before he has had 30 fights, if he retired tomorrow no one would doubt his record, Joe Calzaghes record will always be questioned due to his reluctance to take on the top men when they were at their best. I like Joe but lets be honest his best win came against a man that Ward made look like a mug. What we have other than than that he is Lacey who was on over hyped plodder, Hopkins who gave Joe a boxing lesson and was very unlucky not to get the decision and Roy Jones who was well past his sell by date and a pale shadow of his former glories.

hogey wrote:Calzaghe vs Kessler was a fight, Ward vs Kessler was a onesided masterclass with Ward winning nearly every minute of every round.

And Calzaghe struggled with Robin Reid who Lacy destroyed so Calzaghe was destroyed by Lacy right?

Don't get carried away with Ward's record just yet.

Ward would beat Kessler in most probability but you can't underestimate how much of an effect the headbutts had on that fight, would and should have been closer.

Truth is though, you and i know that young or old Robin Reid would be lucky to land more than half a dozen shots on Ward all night, where as he gave Calzaghe a war that plenty scored for Reid. Reid was on the slide when he fought Lacey and got punished aprt from that fight Lacey has done nothing of note.

I'd go for Ward by close but decisive UD. He reminds me of Hop but with a touch of Floyd thrown in. He does everything well and his cleverness would make JC think which would nullify any workrate superiority JC may have. One thing though is that JC can bang and Ward has hit the deck in early fights. JC has the speed to put him down and maybe keep him there. But Ward has the better fundermentals and more guile.

Calzaghe was a young fighter back then much like Ward was when he was dropped by that nobody, things happen and stylewise feel Calzaghe is all wrong for Ward.

If anything, the headbutts in the Ward-Kessler fight get overplayed. Its hardly like the fight was even and the headbutts caused a turning point.

Ward was easily winning the fight even before the first one occured. He was just a different class.

Yes but Ward got up and won easily, where as Joe got a disputed decision in a fight that many thought he lost. Anyone that watched Calzaghe vs Hopkins and saw how easy a 43 yr old Hopkins avoided Joes shots and totally outboxed him at times surely can see how easy Ward would beat Joe. I honestly believe Joe would be lucky to wim more than a couple of rounds.

Just because Ward beat Kessler more convincingly means nothing. Styles make fights, Calzaghe beat the stuffing into lacy and a lot of the work was on the inside, so don't say he can't fight inside. Ward doesn't have the power to hurt Joe and his work rate and speed will be far too much for him.

J.Benson II wrote:If anything, the headbutts in the Ward-Kessler fight get overplayed. Its hardly like the fight was even and the headbutts caused a turning point.

Ward was easily winning the fight even before the first one occured. He was just a different class.

Thats how I saw it also. It seems that some have an unhealthy agenda against Ward.

Hogey, we don't want to go to Hopkins again but he managed to get away with EVERY dirty trick in the book and still lost. Laughable really that you think Ward would beat him so easily. It always happens though, someone gets a great win and everyone thinks they are unstoppable.

If i'm going to be persuaded to agree I need more of an argument than "he beat Kessler in better fasion".

That 43 year old Hopkins was still one of the best fighters on the planet and three years on he still is.

Same 43 year old who beat jean pascal and kelly pavlik. Amazing that people can still mock that win.

Its just as ridiculous to downplay the win over Kessler. This was a highly impressive and near shut out win. How could one not be anything other than extremelly impressed?

Ward in his biggest test, still quite a green fighter, completely dominated Kessler. Beat him to the punch, bullied him on the inside, bamboozled him with his stance and switch hitting and landed clean accurate punches on him reglarly. He displayed an array of qualities.

To try and downplay this under the styles makes fight umbrella is a bit unreasonable. Stylewise Ward is a far tougher prospect than the much more limited and one dimensional Kessler is. The fact Ward dispatched Kessler more impressively than Calzaghe did should not be underestimated.

Thats right the 43 yr old Hopkins was still decent, but if Ward moved to light heavy he would beat Pascal and Pavlik without breaking sweat. My belief that Ward would beat Calzaghe is based on the Hopkins, Reid, Bika and Kessler fights in all of which he showed weaknesses that a clever fighter like Ward would fill his boots on.

We will never know, just as we wil never know would Joe have beaten RJJ, Hopkins and Toney in their respective primes. Th efunny thing about boxing is, we all pretend to know who is going to win a fight and a lot of the time we get it completely wrong. Until the first bell goes we are just speculating.

Boxing is littered with fights where the best man or the favourite didn't win.

BoxingFan88 wrote:Ward doesn't have the power to hurt Joe and his work rate and speed will be far too much for him.

Ward certainly has enough power to make his opponents respect him. Otherwise, someone as tough as Froch would have just walked him down.

Froch did walk him down, Ward was just too fast once he got there, Ward kept him turning all night. He doesn't have the power to make calzaghe think twice about attacking him.

Its a shame that people really underestimate Calzaghe...

manos de piedra wrote:To try and downplay this under the styles makes fight umbrella is a bit unreasonable. Stylewise Ward is a far tougher prospect than the much more limited and one dimensional Kessler is. The fact Ward dispatched Kessler more impressively than Calzaghe did should not be underestimated.

Its not unreasonable - its frankly true, Certainly - we shouldn't downplay the Kessler win for Ward - and I haven't. However - he did deserve a points deduction in that fight - and his head did break Kessler's trochlea - meaning he still gets double vision to this day.

Ward was simply quicker than Kessler throughout the fight - so its not as simple as Ward butted and thus won.

To use Kessler as evidence for Calzaghe losing to Ward is a bit disingenuous. It wasn't the same Kessler both faced, for a start and as mentioned before - styles make fights. That doesn't downplay the Kessler win for Ward.

You constantly cite using the same degree of analysis over different fighters careers - so why is this case any different? If we're hearing about a "43 year old Hopkins" and a lucky SD - then we're entitled to use the same criticism for the Ward-Kessler fight. Pointing out that Kessler was largely inactive coming into the tournament and hadn't looked the same since destroying Beyer all those years ago.

No one can say that the Kessler victory for Ward was not a huge one, Ward dominated him and beat him inside and outside.

As I have said before calzaghe wins a UD because of his speed work rate and under rated punching power, I don't buy the "Ward is too slick". When did anyone out slick Calzaghe?

I dont underestimate or over estimate Calzaghe i think he done what he had to do to make his money so fair play to him, but for me his career like Ottke's (even though i do rate him well above Ottke) is better statistically than it is in reality. I dont think you can be regarded as a really great fighter based on beating a couple of decent world level but not much more fighters like Kessler and Lacey, an aged and wash up former great coming down from the higher weights and getting your ears boxed off at times then given a very dubious decision against a bloke of 43 who has been beaten twice by Taylor.

oxring wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:To try and downplay this under the styles makes fight umbrella is a bit unreasonable. Stylewise Ward is a far tougher prospect than the much more limited and one dimensional Kessler is. The fact Ward dispatched Kessler more impressively than Calzaghe did should not be underestimated.

Its not unreasonable - its frankly true, Certainly - we shouldn't downplay the Kessler win for Ward - and I haven't. However - he did deserve a points deduction in that fight - and his head did break Kessler's trochlea - meaning he still gets double vision to this day.

Ward was simply quicker than Kessler throughout the fight - so its not as simple as Ward butted and thus won.

To use Kessler as evidence for Calzaghe losing to Ward is a bit disingenuous. It wasn't the same Kessler both faced, for a start and as mentioned before - styles make fights. That doesn't downplay the Kessler win for Ward.

You constantly cite using the same degree of analysis over different fighters careers - so why is this case any different? If we're hearing about a "43 year old Hopkins" and a lucky SD - then we're entitled to use the same criticism for the Ward-Kessler fight. Pointing out that Kessler was largely inactive coming into the tournament and hadn't looked the same since destroying Beyer all those years ago.

What is your point?

Ward hammered Kessler. How is this comparable to a contentious SD win in the Calzaghe/Hopkins fight? The suggestion was that Ward v Kessler was somehow controversial. It wasnt really, it was a one sided fight and always would be.

Ward beating Kessler doesnt mean hes going to beat Calaghe but the manner in which he won is a clear indiction of his talent and I dont see how styles makes fights comes into play here. Kessler is a good boxer and Wardbeat him in more impressive fashion. Thats is my point.

How does styles make fight mean Kessler was a tougher opponent for Calzaghe than he was for Ward, or indeed why Kessler would be a tougher oponent than Ward.

I never once suggested that because Ward beat Kessler he would therefore beat Calzaghe. My first post outlined my reasons so I dont know where you are getting this assumption from. My point with the Kessler fight was to illustrate the talent, qualities and skills displayed by Ward when he beat Kessler - all of which would pose Calzaghe problems.

So why does Ward now get bigged up so much and sorry but there is no way in hell you can downplay Calzaghes win over Hopkins, which was great plain and simple.

Contentious? ask most people and they had calzaghe a clear winner against Hopkins.

BoxingFan88 wrote:Froch did walk him down, Ward was just too fast once he got there, Ward kept him turning all night. He doesn't have the power to make calzaghe think twice about attacking him.

Its a shame that people really underestimate Calzaghe...

There were several times in yesterday's fight where Ward appeared to briefly stun Froch with his quick hooks and flurries.
If Calzaghe went into a fight with Ward with the reckless tactics you're suggesting than I think he'd be in for a bit of a shock.
Its not a case of people underestimating Calzaghe, I've acknowledged that I can see an argument for him winning....its more a case of realising that Ward is a quality boxer who possess an awkward, versitile and nullifying style that could better many boxers, Calzaghe included.

The suggestion of many on here does seem to be that Ward would win based on beating Kessler more easily.