Reform Regional Rugby Petition

First topic message reminder :

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/reform-regional-rugby/

Sign away people

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Draigoch wrote:. In a perfect world I'd like to see us set up a region in the valleys and North Wales within the next 20 years and start sponsoring London Welsh a bit too. But who knows, just look where we were in 1992....

6 regions? Thats circa 180 professional players?

Wales is having trouble sustaining 50!

Hey, I did say in a perfect world!

AlynDavies wrote:Ok lads...

http://www.wru.co.uk/downloads/WRU_ARA_2011_Final.pdf

That's the WRU 2011 financial results, page 14, any of you who can make sense of it wins a cookie, hand delivered by RugbyDreamer and Cari dressed as Play Boy bunnies, subject to their future and anticipated agreement.

On page 63:
(d) Allocations to affiliates 2011 (£000)
...
Regions – professional rugby 14,954

So that's just under £4m for each Region from the WRU.

Griff wrote:

The board at the Dragons insist on the 'Newport' bit in the title, but the fans are much more grown up and prefer to chant 'Dragons' instead of Newport as we are standing shoulder to shoulder with mates from Ebbw Vale, Cwmbran, Risca, Pontypool, etc. and it would be a bit wierd to shout Newport (especially as I would have watched a different Newport playing in a different competition, in a different league, at semi-pro level the week before). It just woudn't make sense.

If you have read these message boards, and the old 606, then you'll know that the Dragons fans on here (and at the ground from my experience) are all in agreement that we'd be happy to drop the 'Newport' from the title, even those like me who live in Newport. It's the Dragons board that hasn't kept up with the fans!

I take it you are referring to the Newport RFC board of directors.

Why is it a bit weird to shout the same name for both the first and second teams? We do it at Cardiff and the Turks do it out West with the chant of "Scarlets" for both their sides. Probably for their age grade teams too.

Kiwireddevil wrote:On page 63:
(d) Allocations to affiliates 2011 (£000)
...
Regions – professional rugby 14,954

So that's just under £4m for each Region from the WRU.

Whoah it's amazing what the promise of RugbyDreamer and Cari in Play boy bunny outfits will do.... god himself has gotten involved and got our answers for us!



Unless he just really likes cookies...

Thanks Kiwi

So now do we add in the £8m tv money at £2m each to give each region £6m?

Kiwireddevil wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:Ok lads...

http://www.wru.co.uk/downloads/WRU_ARA_2011_Final.pdf

That's the WRU 2011 financial results, page 14, any of you who can make sense of it wins a cookie, hand delivered by RugbyDreamer and Cari dressed as Play Boy bunnies, subject to their future and anticipated agreement.

On page 63:
(d) Allocations to affiliates 2011 (£000)
...
Regions – professional rugby 14,954

So that's just under £4m for each Region from the WRU.

Which includes the £8.954m of tv revenue which the regions are already owed.

No Cardiff Dave, I refer to the Dragons board. My point is that everyone at the Dragons, apart from the board, is happy with it to be called Gwent Dragons or just Dragons. Only the board persists with 'Newport' in the title. It is ultimately them that can change it by removing the Newport name from merchandising, etc. It's just confusing to everyone outside Wales because Newport RFC still exist and play at the same ground. Let's just drop the Newport from the title: the fans want it so why not do it?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:Ok lads...

http://www.wru.co.uk/downloads/WRU_ARA_2011_Final.pdf

That's the WRU 2011 financial results, page 14, any of you who can make sense of it wins a cookie, hand delivered by RugbyDreamer and Cari dressed as Play Boy bunnies, subject to their future and anticipated agreement.

On page 63:
(d) Allocations to affiliates 2011 (£000)
...
Regions – professional rugby 14,954

So that's just under £4m for each Region from the WRU.

Which includes the £8.954m of tv revenue which the regions are already owed.

Don't forget the academies too. The regions' £3.5 million is meant to be just for the pro teams, so where does the academy funding come from? Is that out of the £3.5m too?

Griff wrote:

Don't forget the academies too. The regions' £3.5 million is meant to be just for the pro teams, so where does the academy funding come from? Is that out of the £3.5m too?

I think yes is the short answer.

But it's a grey area. Yes another one.

Unless I'm mistaken, it says the WRU had income of c.£54m, from internationals, concerts and the Regions.

Taking away costs, that leaves c.£32m to be put back into the regions, semi pro and grass roots plus that set aside and interest etc.

So of that £32m, c.£25m is 'invested' in rugby, of which £15m goes to the regions.

'The allocations to the four Regions have increased by 5%
(2010: 18%) to £15.0m (including the competition income
referred to above). These allocations cover all international
player release and provide core financial support for the
four Regions and reflect the new Participation Agreement
signed in September 2009.'

So Alyn you are right, £3.75m each?

Whoops, beaten to the cookie question I see!

Bathman_in_London wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, it says the WRU had income of c.£54m, from internationals, concerts and the Regions.

Taking away costs, that leaves c.£32m to be put back into the regions, semi pro and grass roots plus that set aside and interest etc.

So of that £32m, c.£25m is 'invested' in rugby, of which £15m goes to the regions.

'The allocations to the four Regions have increased by 5%
(2010: 18%) to £15.0m (including the competition income
referred to above). These allocations cover all international
player release and provide core financial support for the
four Regions and reflect the new Participation Agreement
signed in September 2009.'

So Alyn you are right, £3.75m each?

I think this is where the 'grey areas' come in. e.g. do the academies get classed as grassroots or are they paid out of the £3.75m. I can't imagine it's cheap to run U16, U18 and regional academy sides. Any ideas?

No thank you. people of the South Wales Valleys have five choices of who to support

The Sacrlets (within an hour's drive)
The Ospreys (within an hour's drive)
The Blues (within an hour's drive)
The Dragons (within an hour's drive)
None of the above (a minute from the fridge)

What is the problem?

Y Ci wrote:No thank you. people of the South Wales Valleys have five choices of who to support

The Sacrlets (within an hour's drive)
The Ospreys (within an hour's drive)
The Blues (within an hour's drive)
The Dragons (within an hour's drive)
None of the above (a minute from the fridge)

What is the problem?

Do you live in a very big house?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Griff wrote:

Don't forget the academies too. The regions' £3.5 million is meant to be just for the pro teams, so where does the academy funding come from? Is that out of the £3.5m too?

I think yes is the short answer.

But it's a grey area. Yes another one.

No. the £3.5million is for the salary for the european squad at the regions. The WRU provide extra funding for the academies etc (they have not specified how much in recent press releases).

"Do you live in a very big house?"

Ha, ha, no, my knees aren't what they were (and I was factoring in finding the bottle opener)

Bathman_in_London wrote:So Alyn you are right, £3.75m each?

Must be, but the academies have been transferred to the Regions now and are no longer WRU funded. Secondlly some of the regions have 2 academies, the blues have a north and south I think?

Griff wrote:No Cardiff Dave, I refer to the Dragons board. My point is that everyone at the Dragons, apart from the board, is happy with it to be called Gwent Dragons or just Dragons. Only the board persists with 'Newport' in the title. It is ultimately them that can change it by removing the Newport name from merchandising, etc. It's just confusing to everyone outside Wales because Newport RFC still exist and play at the same ground. Let's just drop the Newport from the title: the fans want it so why not do it?

Didn't realise there was a seperate board of directors from the Newport RFC lot.

Do all of the fans want to drop the name Newport or is it a majority/minority?

The acadamies are seperately funded by the WRU, Alyn.

AlynDavies wrote:
Must be, but the academies have been transferred to the Regions now and are no longer WRU funded.

Roger Lewis said that the WRU funds them 2 weeks ago:

"The WRU invests £6m in cash every year to the four regions, in addition to its funding of the four regional academies "

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/regions/20474.php

AlynDavies wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:So Alyn you are right, £3.75m each?

Must be, but the academies have been transferred to the Regions now and are no longer WRU funded. Secondlly some of the regions have 2 academies, the blues have a north and south I think?

Academy - which is now basically the 2nd team ie Cardiff RFC (The Rags) plus a few other players at other clubs.
U18's
U16 North
U16 South
Girls

http://www.cardiffblues.com/development/age_grade_news.php

Chunky Norwich wrote:Roger Lewis said that the WRU funds them 2 weeks ago:

"The WRU invests £6m in cash every year to the four regions, in addition to its funding of the four regional academies "

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/regions/20474.php

rugbydreamer wrote:The acadamies are seperately funded by the WRU, Alyn.

Thanks, I was under the impression the Regions had taken over the running of them, I assumed they'd also have the cost, but it seems not.

AlynDavies wrote:
...
Whoah it's amazing what the promise of RugbyDreamer and Cari in Play boy bunny outfits will do.... god himself has gotten involved and got our answers for us!
...
Unless he just really likes cookies...
...

Bearing in mind that I've met both Dreamer and Cari, anything I answer to the above is going to get me in trouble

Memo to self, read more carfully before showing off skills like being good at reading financial accounts.

Kiwireddevil wrote:Bearing in mind that I've met both Dreamer and Cari, anything I answer to the above is going to get me in trouble

It could of gotten you a date also!
All you needed was a hair cut like Tommy Bowe and a convincing Irish accent.

Kiwireddevil wrote:Memo to self, read more carfully before showing off skills like being good at reading financial accounts.

You could of just said you REALLY like cookies.

As an Ebbw boy who supports my Region I would love it if they dropped Newport from the name and we just became the Gwent Dragons or even just Dragons but I understand the boards stance.

What may seem trivial to some but IMO has made a huge difference within the Gwent Region is we now hear Dragons chant at games instead of Newport chants.

Small steps etc etc but it works.

Bedford it's a massive step but I still think we have one region that wont take that step.

Yeah, Bedford I used to be embarrassed at the Newport chants years ago but luckily I haven't heard one for a few years now.

Cardiff Dave, speaking to fans on here and at the game they would like 'Newport' dropped. That's both Newport residents and those from other parts of Gwent. That's all I can go on as I haven't done an in depth study.

In terms of the board, there are different chairmen for Newport RFC (Will Godfrey) and The Dragons (Martyn Hazell). Not sure about the rest. What or who makes up a board apart from chairmen? Also, Tony Brown is still involved with Newport RFC but not the Dragons (although I heard that he may be playing a role woth the Drags in some form in the future).

Just thought, the WRU are on the board at the Dragons too I believe as they bought out the Ebbw Vale half of the 'merger' when it went t*ts up not long after inception. They are not on the board of Newport RFC though.

When I go to Dave I wear a mixture of Dragons colours and Ebbw colours, I will wear an Ebbw or Dragons baseball cap or benny hat and then an Ebbw or Dragons top etc.

I know some will dis-agree with me but I still think there is much more HUGE step the Dragons could take and thats play some of the games away from Dave.

Now I know and understand all the arguments for playing at Dave but the odd LV Cup game or even the odd game against Trevios or Aironi could be at least given a trial run.

Bedford, I don't mind going on the road for the odd game. However, where you get difficulty and conflict is which games go on the road. If you just play the crap games like the LV games at Ebbw Vale or Pontypool then fans will say it's just a token gesture and will complain that we only send them the crap games and/or teams. Personally I think we should always play the biggest games at our main venue, so you'd never get the good games in Ebbw or Pontypool. Would people mind this?

If they don't mind then I'd be happy to travel to other parts of the region to watch games such as Aironi and LV.

Just to add though that while it seems like a good idea for growing the fan base, is it done in other countries? I can only think of Munster that play games in alternate venues?

Griff,

I understand all points of the arguments and as I live wrong side of the bridge I get a different view point on it.

I totally agree with playing our big games at Dave as even my very own beloved Eugene Cross Park is not up to standard for the big Pro12 or HC games but maybe like I said a trial run on some of the LV or smaller Pro12 games could at least be given a shot.

As for other countries well the Ospreys now play some of their LV games at the Brewery field.

When we were in the early days of Regionalism wasn't there talk of re-developing the old Cwmbran stadium as our ground, that for me and a lot of Gwent people would have been ideal.

Taking an LV game on the road is a lot more than just a token gesture - it worked really well at Bridgend when the Ospreys played there - it generated a genuine rugby ground atmosphere - even though second-stringers were playing.

As for other countries - off the top of my head; Auckland Blues and Canterbury Crusaders?

Not that they should be compared to the mighty Newport, obviously.

Have spoken to friends and family who still live in Ebbw then there is a definate split.

Some will never set foot in Dave to watch the Region and would rather travel down to the Liberty.

Others like me whilst acknowledging things are not right want to support their Region and with players such as Faletau, Lydiate and Brew there the kids know their Region has stars.

Griff,

On the point of would they be happy with 'lesser' games a lot realise that the big games have o be played in Newport but would like to see an effort made by the board to move the game around.

Lets be honest even the odd game with one of the Scots teams could be played away from Dave after all how many away fans would travel down and a miserable Friday night or Sunday afternoon.

Well like I said I'd be up for it. My point really is that the regional detractors will always have something to moan about. Will taking a 'lesser' game to them encourage them to put aside their allegiances and bitterness and come out to support the Dragons? I'm not sure it would. However, it would be good for current fans to get something back in their own town, people like you Bedford. For that reason I think the idea is a good one. But, for trying change the mindset of those fans 'stuck in their ways', I'm not so sure. However, I'm no marketing man so who knows!

I do remember going up to watch the dragons play someone at Pontypool at the start of regional rugby. I think it was a friendly. It was funny as all fans wore their home team club shirt and stood together in the crowds giving each other dirty looks! A great example of tribalism in welsh rugby!

Griff,

The old adage of ' you can please some of the people some of the time but can't please all the people all the time.

As you say someone somewhere will always find something to moan about.

This post should be aimed at the premier club supporters not this site as 90% of Welsh supporters on here support the 4 clubs/regions so they have self interest at heart.

If the WRU decided to create one region from the Scarlets and Ospreys and the region calls itself "Swansea Ospreys" how many Scarlets supporter would go to the Liberty to support the "region", I suspect very few, the same applies the other way around.

Griff wrote:No Cardiff Dave, I refer to the Dragons board. My point is that everyone at the Dragons, apart from the board, is happy with it to be called Gwent Dragons or just Dragons. Only the board persists with 'Newport' in the title. It is ultimately them that can change it by removing the Newport name from merchandising, etc. It's just confusing to everyone outside Wales because Newport RFC still exist and play at the same ground. Let's just drop the Newport from the title: the fans want it so why not do it?

I don't want Newport removed from the title so please don't assume you speak for every supporter Griff

Griff wrote:Yeah, Bedford I used to be embarrassed at the Newport chants years ago but luckily I haven't heard one for a few years now.

Cardiff Dave, speaking to fans on here and at the game they would like 'Newport' dropped. That's both Newport residents and those from other parts of Gwent. That's all I can go on as I haven't done an in depth study.

In terms of the board, there are different chairmen for Newport RFC (Will Godfrey) and The Dragons (Martyn Hazell). Not sure about the rest. What or who makes up a board apart from chairmen? Also, Tony Brown is still involved with Newport RFC but not the Dragons (although I heard that he may be playing a role woth the Drags in some form in the future).

Griff, you don't know much about the Dragons do you? Tony Brown has just contributed millions of pounds to help pay for the Bisley stand at RP which is named after his company

dragon999 wrote:I don't want Newport removed from the title

Why not?

Dragon,

Lets say it had happened the other way around then would you have so willingly travelled up to Eugene Cross Park or Pontypool Park to support your Region if they had been called Ebbw Vale Dragons and played in predominently Ebbw colours?

dragon999 wrote:

Griff wrote:Yeah, Bedford I used to be embarrassed at the Newport chants years ago but luckily I haven't heard one for a few years now.

Cardiff Dave, speaking to fans on here and at the game they would like 'Newport' dropped. That's both Newport residents and those from other parts of Gwent. That's all I can go on as I haven't done an in depth study.

In terms of the board, there are different chairmen for Newport RFC (Will Godfrey) and The Dragons (Martyn Hazell). Not sure about the rest. What or who makes up a board apart from chairmen? Also, Tony Brown is still involved with Newport RFC but not the Dragons (although I heard that he may be playing a role woth the Drags in some form in the future).

Griff, you don't know much about the Dragons do you? Tony Brown has just contributed millions of pounds to help pay for the Bisley stand at RP which is named after his company

The Dragons just use the stadium owned by Newport Athletic club, which Tony Brown is involved in. He didn't build it for the Dragons, but we did get to use it.

dragon999 wrote:

Griff wrote:No Cardiff Dave, I refer to the Dragons board. My point is that everyone at the Dragons, apart from the board, is happy with it to be called Gwent Dragons or just Dragons. Only the board persists with 'Newport' in the title. It is ultimately them that can change it by removing the Newport name from merchandising, etc. It's just confusing to everyone outside Wales because Newport RFC still exist and play at the same ground. Let's just drop the Newport from the title: the fans want it so why not do it?

I don't want Newport removed from the title so please don't assume you speak for every supporter Griff

Dragon, if you read my posts I say it's the ones I've spoken to on here and at the game. I haven't spoken to you on here before. You're the first I've spoken to on here with that view. Don't try to change what I wrote.

All the old club names should be removed from the Regions, no place for them - keep them for the premiership teams.

offload wrote:All the old club names should be removed from the Regions, no place for them - keep them for the premiership teams.

Agreed.

Gets my vote but can't see it happening anytime soon unfortunately.

Griff wrote:

dragon999 wrote:

Griff, you don't know much about the Dragons do you? Tony Brown has just contributed millions of pounds to help pay for the Bisley stand at RP which is named after his company

The Dragons just use the stadium owned by Newport Athletic club, which Tony Brown is involved in. He didn't build it for the Dragons, but we did get to use it.

So what was the main reason for building the new stand?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Griff,

I understand all points of the arguments and as I live wrong side of the bridge I get a different view point on it.

I totally agree with playing our big games at Dave as even my very own beloved Eugene Cross Park is not up to standard for the big Pro12 or HC games but maybe like I said a trial run on some of the LV or smaller Pro12 games could at least be given a shot.

As for other countries well the Ospreys now play some of their LV games at the Brewery field.

When we were in the early days of Regionalism wasn't there talk of re-developing the old Cwmbran stadium as our ground, that for me and a lot of Gwent people would have been ideal.

Ospreys will be playing the Dragons at the Brewery Field on Jan 27th, first league game in 8 years to played at the ground. Unfortunately for me im in London that weekend. cuddy now owns the Brewery field, one of the reasons that Bridgend will be stying in the premiership. You can guarantee that the Brewery field will be a sell out for the game.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Griff wrote:

dragon999 wrote:

Griff, you don't know much about the Dragons do you? Tony Brown has just contributed millions of pounds to help pay for the Bisley stand at RP which is named after his company

The Dragons just use the stadium owned by Newport Athletic club, which Tony Brown is involved in. He didn't build it for the Dragons, but we did get to use it.

So what was the main reason for building the new stand?

Tony Brown owns Rodney Parade - the club house, bowls club, squash club, stadium, training barn, the lot. It makes sense for him to regenerate his ground to maximise income, be it from Newport RFC, the Dragons, or the weddings and conferencing packages that they've started doing. The Dragons don't get the proceeds of the weddings or conferences, or the Newport RFC gates receipts obviously.

Tony Brown left the Dragons acrimoniously around 2005. It is only recently he's come back (start of 2011) but only to help the board out and to 'add credibility to the board', kind of like an advisor. He certainly hasn't declared that he's investing in the Dragons, but we do get to play in the nice new stadium (stand) so we're grateful of that. He's certainly not a benefactor like Cuddy or Pies.

offload wrote:All the old club names should be removed from the Regions, no place for them - keep them for the premiership teams.

Naming the first team of pro rugby clubs after wild animals, colours and mythical creatures is the way forward.

BridgendBoyo wrote:

Ospreys will be playing the Dragons at the Brewery Field on Jan 27th, first league game in 8 years to played at the ground. Unfortunately for me im in London that weekend. cuddy now owns the Brewery field, one of the reasons that Bridgend will be stying in the premiership. You can guarantee that the Brewery field will be a sell out for the game.

That's not in the league, it's the LV= cup.

Rev, did you here about the support I provided to your team in the Amlin Cup