Ireland vs Wales - WELSH TEAM ANNOUNCED AT 11:50 THIS MORNING...!

First topic message reminder :

Ireland Six Nations 2012 Squad

15 -Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) Captain
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 -Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)



WALES SQUAD

BACKS

Scrumhalf
Mike PHILLIPS (BAYONNE)
Lloyd WILLIAMS (CARDIFF BLUES)
Rhys WEBB (OSPREYS)

Flyhalf
Rhys PRIESTLAND (SCARLETS)
James HOOK (PERPIGNAN)

Centre 3/4s
Jamie ROBERTS (CARDIFF BLUES)
Jonathan DAVIES (SCARLETS)
Scott WILLIAMS (SCARLETS)
Gavin HENSON (CARDIFF BLUES)
Ashley BECK (OSPREYS – Uncapped)

Wing 3/4s
George NORTH (SCARLETS)
Leigh HALFPENNY (CARDIFF BLUES)
Alex CUTHBERT (CARDIFF BLUES)
Harry ROBINSON (CARDIFF BLUES)

Fullbacks
Liam WILLIAMS (SCARLETS – Uncapped)
Lee BYRNE (ASM CLERMONT AUVERGNE)

FORWARDS

Tightheads
Craig MITCHELL (EXETER CHIEFS)
Adam JONES (OSPREYS)

Looseheads
Ryan BEVINGTON (OSPREYS)
Gethin JENKINS (CARDIFF BLUES)
Rhys GILL (SARACENS)

Adaptable to both sides of the Scrum
Paul JAMES (OSPREYS)
Rhodri JONES (SCARLETS – Uncapped)

Hookers
Matthew REES (SCARLETS)
Huw BENNETT (OSPREYS)
Ken OWENS (SCARLETS)

Locks
Bradley DAVIES (BLUES)
Ian EVANS (OSPREYS)
Lou REED (SCARLETS – Uncapped)

Back Five Option
Ryan JONES (OSPREYS)

Blindside Flank Forward
Dan LYDIATE (NEWPORT GWENT DRAGONS)

Openside Flank Forward
Sam WARBURTON (CARDIFF BLUES, CAPTAIN)
Justin TIPURIC (OSPREYS)

Number 8s
Toby FALETAU (Dragons)
Andy POWELL (Sale)


Its a month away, just 31 days to the opening game for Wales and Ireland. The excitement of the start of the tournament is as thrilling as it has ever been. I think we are hoping that both sides will show some of the new talent on display in the HEC given their chances at International level. A mix of experience blended in well to temper the exuberance of youth when it is needed.


How do the teams match up historically?

First ever Ireland vs Wales was at Lansdowne Road, Dublin on the 28th of January 1882.

Ireland nil – 2G, 4T Wales
Try: Evans
Bridie
Clapp
Baker Jones

Con: Lewis (2)


The winning result for Wales was their first ever victory in International Rugby. Since then the two Nations have played for the following results.

117 Played 117
47 Wins 64
64 Losses 47
6 Draws 6
164 Tries 201
85 Conversions 98
131 Penalties 126
21 Drop Goals 33
1227 Points 1353
39.66% Success Rate 54.31%

Last meeting was in the Quarter Finals of the RWC 2011. Wales were victorious in a classic encounter. Both nations fielded exceptionally good teams that had done well in their previous pool matches.

The game previous was in the 2011 Six Nations with another win for Wales, controversial due to the try that should not have been allowed scored by Mike Phillips.

gowales wrote:Sweeney is Poopie... Tovey isn't ready to play in the 6 nations yet.

I agree, though a big fan of him I want him to mature more first.

Look at how Priestland developed over several seasons at the Scarlets.. Biggar is in the same bag too... Time patience, they will either get it or not.

Hopefully they do...!

gowales wrote:Sweeney is Poopie... Tovey isn't ready to play in the 6 nations yet.

That's pretty much my point. Most players deserve in over Henson currently, the latter has done F all as usual to earn his place. It can't be a good message within the squad to have the guy whose rep precedes him but who rarely produces in over a host who have worked much harder for longer and deserve a place a hundred times more. That's not a principle anyone could possibly want lingering in the squad in later years!!

True Roberts, Davies and Williams are all too similar. Beck and Henson are the only playmaker centres in Wales (Hook is now a 10) and Beck's untested. I think Beck wil be Henson's understudy.

Could work well with Beck and Henson vying for a similar alternative position.

I think his inclusion is a good idea.

More of a surprise for me was to see Lou Reed in ahead of Adam Jones or Powell ahead of Shingler, but even then both selections can be justified.

I think the best thing about this squad is that the players will most likely be playing in their natural positions because of the depth we now have. No more Andy Powell at 6, James Hook at 15 or Paul James at 3 hopefully.

I'm very happy with the Wales squad, I think Duncan jones is hard done by in terms of form but I suppose if your picking Gethin Jenkins as 1, then there is no need to have a 32 year old prop as back up, and Bevington is likely to to be the future so let him have the spot.

I'm also sad for Dwayne Peel, I'm not normally his biggest fan but he has played really well for Sale lately and has such quick service from the base of the ruck, Wales could really of used him, though I have no complaints about Phillips or especially Webb.

Lloyd Williams should consider himself very lucky to be in the squad. He didn't play well against Australia and has been quite poor for the Blues.

gowales wrote:Lloyd Williams should consider himself very lucky to be in the squad. He didn't play well against Australia and has been quite poor for the Blues.

I don't understand why the Blues Sub Lloyd for Rees? Mind you I have no clue why they consider Parks as a viable entity as a professional rugby player.

maestegmafia wrote:

gowales wrote:Lloyd Williams should consider himself very lucky to be in the squad. He didn't play well against Australia and has been quite poor for the Blues.

I don't understand why the Blues Sub Lloyd for Rees? Mind you I have no clue why they consider Parks as a viable entity as a professional rugby player.

Lloyd's form has dipped a bit, but before Christmas he was superb.

He isn't helped by the fact that Rees has finally found some decent form and is playing well off the bench.

I dont think Rees is playing well though. I think he just shifts ball and that is it. Williams would have benefitted from being an understudy to a decent scrum half last year and this year. Lets hope he gains as much as he can with Wales that he is not getting at the Blues.

Don't forget this is only the training squad and likely to be cut down before the 6 nations starts.

Gatland has in the past opted for a 28 man squad (is there an upper limit?), I imagine a slot will be kept open for AWJ so I reckon we could see 7 or 8 dropped after Poland.

I think you are right Bedford. I hope there are a few surprises as pre RWC warm up squad, that young players and old can surprise the coaches in training and give us a different edge.

Though trying to pick which 7 or 8 could be dropped is difficult, I would guess Robinson would be one and maybe Jones or Gill, likewise one of either Beck, Williams or Henson as can't see the need for 5 centres.

They'll trim it down to 28 I am sure. Meaning 7 go home.

Maes,

Has AWJ been ruled out for whole tournament? If not he may trim by 8 and keep slot for him.

Who would be your 7/8?

I think AWJ is thought to miss the first two games?

Hoist the john b sail boys cos with Sam the captain we'll bring the slam home.

Oh here Flip goes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9Fm0YTRyRQ

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

Has AWJ been ruled out for whole tournament? If not he may trim by 8 and keep slot for him.

Who would be your 7/8?

I think we will lose at least two props and a second row, so likely Rhodri Jones and Gill unless he really impresses then it will be bevington. Second Row will be Lou Reed. A backrower, either Tuperic or hopefully Powell as he looks the weakest link. Two centers, I dont think Jamie Roberts will be fit, I think Scott williams might fall short too and Beck and Henson get chances. A back three player or two will also be dropped probably Robinson, though not sure of the other.

Good competition for places in that squad though. So will be a worthwhile training camp for sure.

How do you lads feel about Adam hughes not being included?

Not bothered at all. Looks like a wing playing centre to me

Drop a second row? He's only got four if you count Ryan Jones!

maestegmafia wrote:How do you lads feel about Adam hughes not being included?

Maes,

I didn't expect him to get the nod, we have been in poor form of late and think that might have gone against him. Alwasy thought it was between him and Beck to get the nod and Becks scoring for fun at the moment, I will be more idsappointed if he's not in the summer tour squad.

Go,

He's a far better centre than he is a winger, was only on the wing as cover for injuries.

Glas a du wrote:Drop a second row? He's only got four if you count Ryan Jones!

We usually have three, sometimes that includes Ryan.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:How do you lads feel about Adam hughes not being included?

Maes,

I didn't expect him to get the nod, we have been in poor form of late and think that might have gone against him. Alwasy thought it was between him and Beck to get the nod and Becks scoring for fun at the moment, I will be more idsappointed if he's not in the summer tour squad.

Go,

He's a far better centre than he is a winger, was only on the wing as cover for injuries.

I agree I think he is a very good centre, rough around the edges but has potential. It would be interesting to see him playing regularly with a decent inside centre.

I think most of us Dragons in an ideal world would love to see Smith and Hughes as our regular centre combo but Smiths injuries and regularity of them must now be a worry for the coaches.

I dont think I have seen the Dragons put out the same backline more than once this year.

Or Last for that matter.

Gatland discussing the Welsh Squad at the press conference

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchdaytv/Index/index/id/10564

I wonder how much Rhys Gill can impress on the Looseheads already established.

In the Saracens vs Ospreys matches he looked better than paul james and therefor Bevington. Can he also prove to be better than Gethin Jenkins???

ooh maybe in the scrums. But definitely not around the park. And i think Gethin's experience in the scums compensates for his lack of technique sometimes.

It's a sad day when you have to migrate to an Ireland v Wales build-up thread for a bit of peace and quiet. The Irish team selection thread is open, bloody warfare!!!

Well with the squad that Kidney's selected i would expect some debate!

You call it debate if you want to . And the only reason this thread is stuffed with Welshmen is because the Irish guys have become self-obssessed.

So here's to another Welsh win in style - the Irish won't even know you're beating them; too interested in working out what 12 plays better with the 13 who seldom played 13 before!!!

SecretFly wrote:It's a sad day when you have to migrate to an Ireland v Wales build-up thread for a bit of peace and quiet. The Irish team selection thread is open, bloody warfare!!!

I have been reading some of it, thought best to stay out of it. Seems like some people are purposefully instigating the argumentative side of things.

Welcome to the peace calm and serenity of this thread.

So what you think of the Squads for the match?

gowales wrote:Well with the squad that Kidney's selected i would expect some debate!

Well said!

SecretFly wrote:You call it debate if you want to . And the only reason this thread is stuffed with Welshmen is because the Irish guys have become self-obssessed.

So here's to another Welsh win in style - the Irish won't even know you're beating them; too interested in working out what 12 plays better with the 13 who seldom played 13 before!!!

Center is a contentious area in all sides. If Roberts isnt fit then the debate will tear open in Wales too..

Oh I know it's just robust debate...I'm just humourously saying sometimes I need a break from it! ....

What are your thoughts on the other issues around the squad... Back three? Lock?

I think if Roberts is out then that would be a massive boost for Ireland as given the centre options we've picked that is where we will be most vulnerable. We couldn't live with Roberts in the RWC and I'd expect more of the same.

Adam Jones, Priestland and Roberts are the key men for Wales, everyone else is replaceable I think, even Warburton.

As the game gets closer I'm feeling more confident but won't be surprised if we lose this one.

Thats an interesting perspective that I would have thought almost all Welsh supporters would disagree with.

Adam Jones, Faletau, Warburton, Priestland are very vital to Wales prospects. Not sure Roberts would fit the bill their. He is a good player and useful to have, but hardly a game changer, thinker, doesn't have any flair or create much.

Priestland (is) very vital to Wales prospects

RIGHT! I'VE HAD ENOUGH! PRIESTLAND IS NOT UP TO IT! It's bad enough that we've had to put up with Hook and now him! Lord preserve us!

Glas a du wrote:

Priestland (is) very vital to Wales prospects

RIGHT! I'VE HAD ENOUGH! PRIESTLAND IS NOT UP TO IT! It's bad enough that we've had to put up with Hook and now him! Lord preserve us!

Thats an interesting perspective, care to elaborate...?

Most people seem to think Priestland has been a bit of a revelation at flyhalf.

Rodders, I agree, but I'd add Faletau to that, the first number 8 wales have had in a number of years with the physical attributes AND rugby nouse.

Comfort wrote:Rodders, I agree, but I'd add Faletau to that, the first number 8 wales have had in a number of years with the physical attributes AND rugby nouse.

I guess an argument for non Wales supporters is that they dont watch enough of Toby Faletau to know how much impact his game has on his team. Possibly more so for Wales than the Dragons?

Without Faletau we can just about manage. Ryan Jones is good cover.

Roberts is vital to Wales because he gets over the gain line and creates momentum whenever he gets the ball. He hits the line harder than any other centre in the world. Like it or not the gameplan is built around him. Without him the backline crabs across the field with no direction.

Priestland is very important because he has an all round game unlike Stephen Jones or Hook. His passing and running ability created a lot of chances for the backline. While he has a lot of variation in his kicking game. Against Australia he didn't look very good but neither did the rest of the backline. Mostly because Lloyd Williams just shipped the ball on without asking questions of the defence, something which Phillips does very well. Now that Hooky is playing 10 week in and week out hopefully they will be competing with each other for the foreseeable future.

Warburton is one of our best players , but he was mainly missed in the world cup because we didn't have another 7. With Tupiric in the squad we have adequate cover.

You are misintererating what I am saying a tad...Falateu, warburton etc. are all key players but for me Wales are not the same side and have to alter their gameplan if Roberts, Jones or Priestland are not fit...that doesn't mean that the other players aren't important but Wales direct running game is reliant on that trio to be effective.

Thats my point as well...

maestegmafia wrote:

Glas a du wrote:

Priestland (is) very vital to Wales prospects

RIGHT! I'VE HAD ENOUGH! PRIESTLAND IS NOT UP TO IT! It's bad enough that we've had to put up with Hook and now him! Lord preserve us!

Thats an interesting perspective, care to elaborate...?

Most people seem to think Priestland has been a bit of a revelation at flyhalf.

I AM NOT MOST PEOPLE! He is not a good outside half. He relies too much on confidence and if that is knocked his head drops. He can't vary his tactics and take away his kicking he offers very little else. International defences will have him sussed by the third game of the 6N and every game after that he starts will be a disaster.

gowales wrote:Without Faletau we can just about manage. Ryan Jones is good cover.

Roberts is vital to Wales because he gets over the gain line and creates momentum whenever he gets the ball. He hits the line harder than any other centre in the world. Like it or not the gameplan is built around him. Without him the backline crabs across the field with no direction.

Priestland is very important because he has an all round game unlike Stephen Jones or Hook. His passing and running ability created a lot of chances for the backline. While he has a lot of variation in his kicking game. Against Australia he didn't look very good but neither did the rest of the backline. Mostly because Lloyd Williams just shipped the ball on without asking questions of the defence, something which Phillips does very well. Now that Hooky is playing 10 week in and week out hopefully they will be competing with each other for the foreseeable future.

Warburton is one of our best players , but he was mainly missed in the world cup because we didn't have another 7. With Tupiric in the squad we have adequate cover.

I agree with your points, though I feel that with regards to Faletau, we may be able to "to do without him" but we are not necessarily better without him, I think possibly this Six Nations we will find out how potent we are with him.

Regarding Roberts you are right, he invariably straightens the back line and gets over the gainline, though it would be unfair to say that Beck or Davies do not. Both do. Beck does it especially well and is always looking as to what he can create for other once he has crossed the gainline.

Beck has been part of an Ospreys team that have not lost to Irish opposition this season and he has been much of the good work in the Ospreys this year. Could prove to be a mini revelation in the Welsh team this Six Nations.