Sarries vs Bath teams

Bath Rugby team to face Saracens

15. Nick Abendanon
14. Olly Woodburn
13. Matt Carraro
12. Matt Banahan
11. Tom Biggs
10. Stephen Donald
9. Michael Claassens
1. Nathan Catt
2. Ross Batty
3. Anthony Perenise
4. Dave Attwood
5. Ryan Caldwell
6. Andy Beattie
7. Francois Louw (c)
8. Simon Taylor

Replacements
16. Pieter Dixon
17. Charlie Beech
18. David Wilson
19. Ben Skirving
20. Guy Mercer
21. Chris Cook
22. Tom Heathcote
23. Kyle Eastmond

Saracens line-up vs Bath

15 Alex Goode
14 David Strettle
13 Owen Farrell
12 Brad Barritt
11 Chris Wyles
10 Charlie Hodgson
9 Ben Spencer
1 Rhys Gill
2 John Smit
3 Matt Stevens
4 Steve Borthwick ©
5 Mouritz Botha
6 Jackson Wray
7 Andy Saull
8 Ernst Joubert

16 Jamie George
17 Petrus du Plessis
18 Carlos Nieto
19 George Kruis
20 Justin Melck
21 Peter Stringer
22 Adam Powell
23 James Short


So Bath have kept the same line up as last week, Sarries team looks very strong to me, especially that backline...

Too bad the Sarries backline will never see the ball...

Good to see Catt and Perenise retained. Thought they performed well last week.
Bananaman and Barritt could be an interesting clash!

Yes it will be interesting Bathmad. An inside centre vs a winger who doesn't know his best position.

This will be one of Banahan's last chances to prove he deserves to be in the EPS.

Its not him who doesn't know his best position, coaches move him around. Think 12 is his best bet though to be honest and I hope he isn't considered for the EPS, would be a huge gain to us. Will be the same for Barritt I would imagine

Barritt is a bigger loss to Sarries than Banahan is to Bath. Why aren't playing Bath darling and hero Olly Barkley?

Maybe Banahan will prove he has what it takes to be a 12 but why has he thrown away all the effort he made as a winger?

He got into the EPS as a winger. The Banahan experiment at 12 has not been a success. Why persist?

Barkley didn't play that well the game before the last one i don't think. While Banahan was pretty solid last week. They're probably going for continuity with selection.

Do you really think 12 is for him Bathite? I think he is a winger who can play 13 and while is has looked pretty good at times at 12, there is a big step up from looking alright in the AP/ LV and at international level.

beshocked- Barkley has hurt his wrist/hand I think?

I am personally not sure how technically proficient Banahan is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWdn8Adt7P8

How did Banahan not score?! Saying that he'll probably score a hatrick now!

Oh right thanks Bathman in London.

Bath by 2pts

The 12 position has probably the least cover in the Bath squad as Williams, Hipkiss Carraro are all 13s and Vesty is out of favour despite having the utility tag for the roles 10/12/15 positions.
Banahan is simply being a club man and playing where needed as we have wingers fit and Barkley, our only 12 out of action.
Good to see Cook and Heathcote on the bench who are 20 & 19 respectively.

Any elaboration on that Hersh? Will it be a 9 try thriller with Banahan and Stevens picking up hat tricks? Will Abendanon bamboozle his opposite number with silky skills? Will it be Farrell vs Donald with the boot? Will Donald be brushed off by Hodgson like a rhino shrugging off the efforts of a poodle?

Will Saracens play like the harlem globe trotters with 5 incredible tries but throw 3 intercept tries to gift Bath an unforgettable win?

Or will Donald grind Sarries into the dust with a perfect 8/8 kicks?

HERSH wrote:Bath by 2pts

Have you had a liquid lunch again HERSH? Your boys were flattered by a dreadful Irish side, you'll get back to normal this weekend

Or more seriously, you're going to find it very difficult to get any points against Sarries - only really decent sides can do that (I just can't help myself!)

HKC Gloucester are a bogey side for Sarries. You seem to front up well vs us for whatever reason.

Bath are not. Maybe they will prove me wrong this weekend. They have the potential to do well and the players. Just need more belief.

I just think Gloucester are more savvy and can match the stronger sides a bit more.

Every team has a bogey team. Gloucester recently have been struggling really badly with Quins as an example.

Wow, one youtube video, that proves your point. I could prove man never walked on the moon and that the CIA blew up the twin towers using a youtube video. Sound evidence beshocked, probably the evidence that the Banahan 12 experiment hasn't worked as well, not watching him in games and giving it time or anything sensible like that.

Don't talk to me about Quins! I must have been Charles I's executioner in a previous life, as I have obviously wronged the aristocracy!

Actually Bathite in that video I think he might have been on the wing?

I was thinking more about his performance against Ireland in the 6 nations at centre.

HongKongCherry wrote:Don't talk to me about Quins! I must have been Charles I's executioner in a previous life, as I have obviously wronged the aristocracy!

To be fair Tindall has done one step further than Carling ever did!

Oh yeah fair enough, he played badly against Ireland, he is a crap centre. That's clarified that, thanks. He must have played 12 less than 6/7 times in his life and that's outside at least 3 different Bath flyhalves. Of course it's going to take time, but i think its the best place to suit his skill set. Having said that, he hasn't had a great 12 months or so, poor form and lots of niggling injuries

Bathite on what basis do you think 12 is Banahan's best position? You say it best suits his skill set? My point is why not stick to wing? Why is he becoming a 12?

beshocked wrote:Bathite on what basis do you think 12 is Banahan's best position? You say it best suits his skill set? My point is why not stick to wing? Why is he becoming a 12?

Because I have seen him play live a lot over the last 4 years and I'm not alone with this thought amongst proper fans. He isn't the quickest 0-5 yards and his kicking game isn't great and he is slow to react to kicks over the top, so thats not great for a winger.

As a 12 he has the power to break the gainline and always draws extra defenders into the contact area. He has good hands and huge long arms and a lovely offload. But we havn't played that way since Meehan left, so you probably haven't seen much of it. It was before Sarries become good, so your memory doesn't go back that far! He also has good gas for a bloke his size.

I might be wrong, but that's my thoughts and as I said, I'm not alone, he allegedly ended up there because Martin Johnson wanted to see him there, presumably because of the lack of options at 12, which still hasn't been sorted in my opinion. If we have Manu to 12, I'll be furious. I wouldn't have Banners in the EPS though, hasn't done enough and there are more in form options.

So then.......thoughts? Have spoken to the Bath fans, listened to the game on radio and caught the highlights. Seems as though we gave Sarries a bit of a fright. Did some real damage in the scrum early on, forcing Gill and Stevens off, but then got a pumping when Nieto came on.

Scoreline could have been worse if Farrell kicked his penalties, but we also missed out with 2/3 visits to the 22 and only came away with 3. Should have scored another try at least.

All in all, quite encouraging, well played Sarries, always expected you to win, but happy with a LBP and it seems that young Catt and Heathcote both had good games again. Unfortunately looks likely that Attwood has played himself into the EPS as well.

Bathite maybe you are right. Maybe do I underestimate Banahan but from what I have personally seen I haven't been impressed.

I didn't see much at all from Banahan at 12 as I expected he was well shackled.

I have been watching Saracens for a quite a bit longer than their excellent run in the last 2 and a half seasons!

My summary of the match:

Of the England prospects the Saracens boys looked better than their Bath counterparts in my opinion overall.

Barritt outplayed Banahan and Goode outplayed Abendanon.

Strettle looked very sharp and could be recalled.

Saull looked lively, I am a big fan of his, pleased to see him back in form. A true openside who might get an England call.

Borthwick had yet another strong game, put in a lot of the hard graft, making his tackles, scoring a try and running a mostly effective Saracens lineout.

Farrell was alright but had a pretty poor game with the boot missing 4.

Hodgson ran the Saracens backline alright too.

Wasn't particularly impressed by Stevens though. He still needs to convince me.

Bath started off well and in my opinion looks like Donald is starting to settle in nicely. He managed to shrug off some truly pathetic tackling to score Bath's only try.

Bath had Saracen's scrum under the cosh almost from the beginning and they had successive scrums on the Saracens line resulting in a yellow card for Rhys Gill. You would think with Bath 7-0 up with 8 men vs 7 men in the scrum another scrum would result in a penalty try. Nope - Nieto who is by far Saracen's best scrummager was brought on and he forced a penalty against Bath.Saracens cleared their lines.



Renewed by Nieto's added scrummaging muscle Saracens took huge confidence, attacking with gusto with Strettle making an excellent break. The ball was recycled and ex Bath boy Borthwick got over the try line. Farrell converted to make it 7-7.

After that Bath never really looked that comfortable, Saracens slowly started to get the upperhand and if it wasn't for a whole host of wasted opportunities would have been further ahead.E.g. 4 missed kicks by Farrell, Hodgson going for the drop goal when Saracens had a good attacking position.

Chris Wyles decided the contest with a scything run scoring Saracens 2nd try. I believe Abendanon was one of those to miss a tackle on him.

Disappointed by Bath's attack. They like many teams tried to play Saracens at their own game.

Another well rounded report from Beshocked. Your reputation on here for being ridiciously bias is well warranted.

Thanks Bathite

The thing is generally I focus on my team hence the bias!

I thought Abendanon was strong under the high ball. He was peppered by up and unders and box kicks. Though had defensive lapses particularly for Wyles' try. He wasn't really allowed to show off his silky skills. Well shackled.

Tom Biggs made a couple of good runs. One cutting inside made good ground.

Banahan was well shackled. Didn't see too much of him.

I thought that before Donald came off he was looking busy for Bath. His try was his notable contribution but also looked assured with the boot. When he came off shortly after half time it did not help Bath's cause as they had to bring on a relatively unknown player - Heathcote.

Catt was notable in his contribution to a strong Bath scrum near the beginning of the match against Stevens who struggled with his younger, less experienced opponent.

Of course Bath had their opportunities - one which stood out was an 8 on 3 overlap.

Remember Bathite I am the Sarries perspective. You're the Bath man!

Also I can't pretend that I am an incredible pundit. There are people on here who have more knowledge than me. I just add my perspective. My take on the match is not going to be the same as someone else.

Thats more like it, well done mate, knew you could do it. Trust me, you head will hurt a lot less if you watch the game with 2 eyes! ha

Bendy is great under the high ball these days, if you wanted to see a perfect example of how a FB should play, especially in english conditions, watch him last week. He did miss that tackle on wyles, which was poor, but you see him slip as he goes to make the tackle. Wyles shouldn't have got that far, should have been sat down a few half tackles before that to be honest. Good player Wyles though, like him a lot, very solid, very under rated.

How many do you think you will lose to the EPS/Saxons then?

Saxons
Botha, Saull, Wray, Spencer, Goode, Short

EPS
George, Stevens? Hodgson, Farrell, Barritt, Strettle?

Wow, thats going to decimate you isn't it? Be interesting to see how you and Quins got on without your form men. Forwards will be ok, but can't think what your backline would look like? Maddock, Stringer, Penney, Mordt?

"How many do you think you will lose to the EPS/Saxons then?

Saxons
Botha, Saull, Wray, Spencer, Goode, Short

EPS
George, Stevens? Hodgson, Farrell, Barritt, Strettle?

Wow, thats going to decimate you isn't it? "


I expect Sarries will bring in some international ringers as cover for the 6 nations.

True Bathite. A lot of players. I can see a lot of our academy boys getting gametime which is only good for them.

It doesn't help Brits,Burger,Wigglesworth,De Kock, Smith and some of our other players are injured.

A team would look something like

1.Gill
2.Smit
3.Nieto
4.Kruis
5.Vyvan
6.Melck
7.Fraser
8.Joubert
9.Stringer
10.Mordt
11.Wyles
12.Powell
13.Tomkins
14.Maddock
15.Goode

16.Auterac
17.Du Plessis
18.Spurling/Allen
19.Jubb
20.Hankin
21.Baldwin
22.Taylor
23.Ransom

As you say we'll still have a pretty strong pack. It's fly half and the centres we'll struggle with.

Back three we'll still have Wyles,Goode,Maddock,Watson,Taylor,Ransom etc.

I've only read a few match reports, but it did sound as if Bath as we've seen a lot this season didnt manage to turn pressure into points. Still, a LBP is noting to be ashamed of and its good to see that Catt is taking his chance in the front row.

Seeing as Europe is now irrelevant now, I hope it will be used to really focus on combinations so that when the AP restarts Bath can hit the ground running.



It will be interesting to see how Sarries do without the cream of their backline come the 6 nations, but you would think that they have enough strength up front to get through the period while remaining in their playoff spot.

Yeah it seems that way, but at least we were actually putting on some pressure. Doing damage at scrum time is really positive for us, another bit of progress i think and as you say, 2 dead rubbers in which to keep a settled team together, but a chance for Heathcote, Eastmond et all as well I suspect

First comment in a while
firstly I will say that Bath were better than I expected they started much better than Sarries and could of been 2 tries up in 10 minutes

As for Sarries well we don't look the same without Brits and Burger who seem to get the entire pack playing on another level and at home we should be beating bottom half teams a bit more clearly (even with all the missed kicks)

overall a win is a win, Bath get a bonus point which they probably deserved (to the annoyance of wasps) keep an eye on Stevens and Gill if they are out we are getting worryingly low on props also the ref Mr Pascal Gauzere from France was far better than the joker from last week hopefully a better performance against Bairritz and the Heineken cup quarter final will be secure

First comment in a while
firstly I will say that Bath were better than I expected they started much better than Sarries and could of been 2 tries up in 10 minutes

As for Sarries well we don't look the same without Brits and Burger who seem to get the entire pack playing on another level and at home we should be beating bottom half teams a bit more clearly (even with all the missed kicks)

overall a win is a win, Bath get a bonus point which they probably deserved (to the annoyance of wasps) keep an eye on Stevens and Gill if they are out we are getting worryingly low on props also the ref Mr Pascal Gauzere from France was far better than the joker from last week hopefully a better performance against Bairritz and the Heineken cup quarter final will be secure

Tom-Dick-Harry we shouldn't need to rely on Brits and Burger.

Bath are a better side than their league position would say. They have some very good players. Just lack the cohesion and consistency.

Carlos Nieto must start against Biarritz in my opinion. By far our best scrummager.

Smit is adequate cover as a prop I think. The problem is that Saunders and Vunipola are injured. Carstens has left.

I am more worried about fly half. What do we do if England take Farrell and Hodgson?

Do we move Goode to fly half? Play Mordt?

Fly half and centres are the real problem in my opinion. Farrell is not a true outside centre. We need either Adam Powell or Joel Tomkins to be given a shot.

Shame Sarries brought Nieto on. My prediction of Bath gaining some ground in the scrums against Stevens gave us a great platform...

Guessing that unless there are already too many changes, Stevens has played his way out of the EPS.