Suggestions for the team of the Rabbo 12 at the midway through the season?

First topic message reminder :

We have had a great few months of competition in the Pro 12 Celtic and Latin league, great tries, fantastic skills and some sublime players.

Who are your suggestions for the best XV so far...?

The suggestions you give are just suggestions and when the thread starts to wind down we can count up the suggestions and see who we collectively think are the best XV players in the Rabbo 12 2011 part of the season. I personally wont mind if you are basing your selection of players that play for Regional/Provincial teams, but have only played in the HEC, Amlin or LV=, but as this thread has progressed views have been versed that posters would like players that have played more games in the Rabbo 12 to have preference over those that have not. Also that players should be selected in their shirt position, wingers, centers, props, locks and backrows may not be switched around willy nilly without reason...! (Obviously some players play in more positions than just one and may account for their selection by the fantastic way they play in that said position).



I also advise and I hope very much that the hard working moderators of these threads agree that it would be a gentlemanly thing to not criticise somebody else's suggestion until you have laid your cards on the table and posted your own suggestions. Once your own XV is on the thread then we can debate, accolade, lambast and argue the merits and demerits of those suggestions.

maestegmafia wrote:Aaron Shingler has been superb at 6 and at Lock. Ian Evans also been very good at Lock.

Donnacha Ryan a superb season at lock, Devin Toner too.

+1 on Evans - he's looked v good whenever I've seen him, back to his form of old

Just some suggestions, left out some as they've been mentioned above.....

1. Bevington - I've said it before, but when his scrummaging gets up to standard, Melon mk2.

3. Rhys Thomas - as mentioned, hes learnt to scrummage, correctly or not, hes getting the calls, and his play in the loose has been up there with his best.

4. Adam Jones - late bloomer possibly?! in the form of his life, shame Charteris is leaving at the end of the season, the Dragons have a potentially very good lock-pairing there.

7.Lewis Evans - welsh youngster, back row for the dragons, been excellant nearly every game and forced his way in to the welsh squad for the Ozzy game in the Autumn.

8. Faletau - i dont need to say much, rapidly becoming the form 8 in europe, 1 of the 1st names on the welsh team sheet after Adam Jones(tighthead) and Warburton.

9. Rhys Webb - no idea why he isnt starting every game for the ospreys, he's showing so much more form than Fortuaili. looks more ready for international rugby than any of the other scrum halfs playing in Wales at the moment.

12. Ashley Beck - the form inside centre in Wales, he has that touch of class about him ball in hand.

15. Liam Williams - Scarlets youngster, fullback, has performed well all season, solid in defence/under the high ball, fearless and good counter-attacking.


not mentioned in detail but good:

M.Thomas (15)
A. Shingler (lock)
Tiperic (7)

if you couldnt tell, mainly welsh suggestions, I've seen more of the regions than any of the other Rabo teams, so you'll have to excuse my welsh-pushing-ness.

Other players I've been impressed with (but wouldn't feel confident enough that its been true of their whole season to comment on):

Luke Fitzgerald
Ross Ford
Visser
Weir
Chris Henry
Rob Kearney
Mahoney

I’ve not seen a whole lot of rugby (apart from Leinster) this season but considering our position in the league I would say the following would be a good shout for making the team of the tournament so far.

Rob Kearney – I won’t say he’s back in form because he’s never played this well before.
Ian Madigan – our top try scorer, still not the finished article but a very classy player with a bright future
Fitzgerald – form of his life
Auva’a – seriously good “squad player” with an eye for the try line
Toner – proving a lot of people wrong with this performances this season, has figured out how to carry the ball effectively and is a rock in the set piece

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Where's all the Scottish guys to back me up here against this Irish onslaught??

Here in spirit but not really willing to lay out an endless stream of reasons why I think Visser is the best winger in the pro 12. If fans from other nations don't rate him there is very little I can say to convince them otherwise that he is a good player when he already has 5 tries more than the 2nd top try scorer in the league.

For what it's worth, my XV of the league so far :

1. Healy
2. Ford
3. Jones
4. Gray
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Warburton
8. Faletau (SP)
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Visser
12. Roberts
13. NDL
14. Trimble
15. Halfpenny

feel free to unleash torrents of abuse calling me a numpty but thats who I feel has been playing the best in the league thus far.

For Wales - does Beck look like getting game-time this 6 nations then? I know Roberts would probably be your first centre on the team sheet, but compared to Davies/Williams, is he as good? Would you put him infront/behind those two in the pecking order?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Where's all the Scottish guys to back me up here against this Irish onslaught??

Here in spirit but not really willing to lay out an endless stream of reasons why I think Visser is the best winger in the pro 12. If fans from other nations don't rate him there is very little I can say to convince them otherwise that he is a good player when he already has 5 tries more than the 2nd top try scorer in the league.

For what it's worth, my XV of the league so far :

1. Healy
2. Ford
3. Jones
4. Gray
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Warburton
8. Faletau (SP)
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Visser
12. Roberts
13. NDL
14. Trimble
15. Halfpenny

feel free to unleash torrents of abuse calling me a numpty but thats who I feel has been playing the best in the league thus far.

Radge, I won’t be unleashing a torrent of abuse but I would say that there are a few players there that haven’t played enough games to be considered in the team.

For example O’Connell, Ferris and Sexton only have 3 starts each, Warburton only has 2. Raoberts has only played 24 minuets so far this season!

They might be good enough for a Pro12 dream team, but they’re not the best players that have played so far this season.
I’ve not watched enough of every team to put together a full team, but I’ve made a couple of suggestions based on what I’ve seen so far.

1 stuck for both props but gonna throw in Afoa as he has been immense for Ulster
2 Ford in unbelievable form
3 Botha has really strengthened the Munster scrum for then
4 Adam Jones some of his performances have been top notch
5 Tuhoy started the season well with blisstering performances then leveld off but he has picked his game up again since Muller returned
6 Ferris hasnt played alot in the Rabo for us but when he has!!!!!!
7 Henry for me Ulsters best player to date this season, has played all across the backrow and been damn good too
8 Faletau this guy only gets better with every game
9 Marshall he has really picked his game up this year for Ulster, im not his biggest fan and he still needs to speed his delivery away from rucks but his electric pace, box kicking and form have persuaded me to include him
10 Madigan this lad looks to be very very good and is nipping at Sextons heels
11 Nacewa i know he has probably played more at 14 or 15 but this guy needs included and RDW says Visser cant be no.11 :-P
12 Beck really impressed me when i have watched him play looks to have it all
13 Cave no real standout performers i feel throughout the Rabo but Cave has looed very good in majority of his games
14 Visser the try scoring machine, get him capped Scotland
15 Halfpenny superb under the high ball, can counterattack and has a peach of a left boot..

Open to suggestions at props (really couldnt think of any others who have stood out so far)

Backrower678 wrote:
11 Nacewa i know he has probably played more at 14 or 15 but this guy needs included and RDW says Visser cant be no.11 :-P
14 Visser the try scoring machine, get him capped Scotland

I feel I should stop reacting as it will just inspire you all to continue the heckling!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:For Wales - does Beck look like getting game-time this 6 nations then? I know Roberts would probably be your first centre on the team sheet, but compared to Davies/Williams, is he as good? Would you put him infront/behind those two in the pecking order?

Rory, I'd say he's below both in the pecking order at the moment.

I do feel that he could overtake Scott Williams this year as he has been showing beautiful form so far this season, whereas Williams has been more touch n go.

I would have JD2 as my starting centre partner for Roberts in the Wales midfield though, he has been excellant for 2/3 seasons now, Beck would have to outplay him considerably for a prolonged period of time for me to consider those switching places. I'd have Beck on the bench though. It gives us options tactically as Roberts was originally a wing/fullback and they can change the focus points of attack with one substitution. Think it could be great to get the creativity/running of beck/JD2 in the centre with Roberts/North coming off opposite wings into midfield and halfpennys pace from fullback, certainly not something defences would look forward to from 60 minutes onwards.

Afoa isn't a loosehead.
Despite his form Marshall has still had more bad games than good in the Pro12.
Ferris hasn't played enough.
Tuohy and Henry are decent shouts although they could probably be replaced with others like POM, Tipuric, Toner etc from teams that are above us.
Cave I would go along with. haven't seen anyone as consistent as he is.

6 Ulster players though? C'mon man.

Mickado wrote:6 Ulster players though? C'mon man.

Cave is the only one I think thatnis fully deserving. maybe Henry

if i was going to go for a whole 15 (probably too welsh-based but like I said above I've only really watched enough of the regions games to be able to comment fairly on form so far against the merits of others).

1. Bevington
2. Ford
3. Rhys Thomas
4. Adam Jones
5. Ian Evans
6. Mahoney
7. Lewis Evans
8. Faletau
9. Webb
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Beck
13. Cave
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

Comfort wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:For Wales - does Beck look like getting game-time this 6 nations then? I know Roberts would probably be your first centre on the team sheet, but compared to Davies/Williams, is he as good? Would you put him infront/behind those two in the pecking order?

Rory, I'd say he's below both in the pecking order at the moment.

I do feel that he could overtake Scott Williams this year as he has been showing beautiful form so far this season, whereas Williams has been more touch n go.

I would have JD2 as my starting centre partner for Roberts in the Wales midfield though, he has been excellant for 2/3 seasons now, Beck would have to outplay him considerably for a prolonged period of time for me to consider those switching places. I'd have Beck on the bench though. It gives us options tactically as Roberts was originally a wing/fullback and they can change the focus points of attack with one substitution. Think it could be great to get the creativity/running of beck/JD2 in the centre with Roberts/North coming off opposite wings into midfield and halfpennys pace from fullback, certainly not something defences would look forward to from 60 minutes onwards.

I honestly have always thought Roberts would do better at 13 with a creative 12 inside him. JD2 to me has always been more effective at 12 also. I think that is obvious, when you look at his form for Scarlets at 12, and then his form for Wales at 13. He is much more dangerous at 12. Roberts and his direct running would hugely benefit from the likes of Davies or Beck inside him I feel. I do not know enough about Williams however, he has never really stood out for me.

About Tuohy, and his form improving with Muller, does this show that Tuohy is best with a hard working second row alongside him? Makes me think he could be hugely effective alongside Ryan in the second row.

If you don't want to be chased down the street and called a banker*, I'd advise you all to agree with Comforts team.....

Here's my Rabo XV thus far, with 50% of matches needed for a place.

1. Van der Merwe
2. Strauss
3. BJ Botha
4. ??
5. Toner, credit where it is due, but Mickado, looking good when the leaguee is shorn of its internationals isn't something to over play either.
6. POM. Any 22 year old who is named as Munster Captain for pretty much the whole period that the RWC players are away clearly has the leadership to go with the talent.
7. Stuck to chose one from a few good candidates.
8. Felatau/POM

9. Well, I aint going to pick TOL. Murrary. Boss & Reddan were RWC. Marshall hasn't been great so I am thinking that there must have been a better Welsh, Scottish or Italian SH during the RWC period.
10. Madigan. 5 tries and a resonable return with the boot as well as Leinster performing well with him as pivot.
11. Visser
12. Cannot pick anyone here as I haven't seen enough of the Welsh & Scottish guys and Schmidt seemed to rotate this position a lot. Mafi has been anythig but consistant and any other 12 option at Munster was at best poor. Sorry Danny, I think you have the talent to play either 12 or preferably 13 but it hasn't happened yet.
13. Cave
14. Fitzy
15. Nacewa

As I have been one of his major critics, I must congratualte Fitzy's eturn to superb form of recent times. Very gald he didn't go to the RWC as he really didn't deserve to, esp ahead of anyone that went, but has really knuckled down and relaxed all at the same time to improve his form, performance and individual contribution and his team responsibilities. Also pushed on again since the boys returned from RWC duty.

But Visser gets the 11 jersey.

debaters1 wrote:Here's my Rabo XV thus far, with 50% of matches needed for a place.

1. Van der Merwe
2. Strauss
3. BJ Botha
4. ??
5. Toner, credit where it is due, but Mickado, looking good when the leaguee is shorn of its internationals isn't something to over play either.
6. POM. Any 22 year old who is named as Munster Captain for pretty much the whole period that the RWC players are away clearly has the leadership to go with the talent.
7. Stuck to chose one from a few good candidates.
8. Felatau/POM

9. Well, I aint going to pick TOL. Murrary. Boss & Reddan were RWC. Marshall hasn't been great so I am thinking that there must have been a better Welsh, Scottish or Italian SH during the RWC period.
10. Madigan. 5 tries and a resonable return with the boot as well as Leinster performing well with him as pivot.
11. Visser
12. Cannot pick anyone here as I haven't seen enough of the Welsh & Scottish guys and Schmidt seemed to rotate this position a lot. Mafi has been anythig but consistant and any other 12 option at Munster was at best poor. Sorry Danny, I think you have the talent to play either 12 or preferably 13 but it hasn't happened yet.
13. Cave
14. Fitzy
15. Nacewa

As I have been one of his major critics, I must congratualte Fitzy's eturn to superb form of recent times. Very gald he didn't go to the RWC as he really didn't deserve to, esp ahead of anyone that went, but has really knuckled down and relaxed all at the same time to improve his form, performance and individual contribution and his team responsibilities. Also pushed on again since the boys returned from RWC duty.

But Visser gets the 11 jersey.

Debaters, he’s been playing well all season. The internationals were back into the fold by November, he’s also been playing well in the HC, which has no bearing on him being in this team, but at least shows his performances are nothing to do with abject opponents.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

debaters1 wrote:Here's my Rabo XV thus far, with 50% of matches needed for a place.

1. Van der Merwe
2. Strauss
3. BJ Botha
4. ??
5. Toner, credit where it is due, but Mickado, looking good when the leaguee is shorn of its internationals isn't something to over play either.
6. POM. Any 22 year old who is named as Munster Captain for pretty much the whole period that the RWC players are away clearly has the leadership to go with the talent.
7. Stuck to chose one from a few good candidates.
8. Felatau/POM

9. Well, I aint going to pick TOL. Murrary. Boss & Reddan were RWC. Marshall hasn't been great so I am thinking that there must have been a better Welsh, Scottish or Italian SH during the RWC period.
10. Madigan. 5 tries and a resonable return with the boot as well as Leinster performing well with him as pivot.
11. Visser
12. Cannot pick anyone here as I haven't seen enough of the Welsh & Scottish guys and Schmidt seemed to rotate this position a lot. Mafi has been anythig but consistant and any other 12 option at Munster was at best poor. Sorry Danny, I think you have the talent to play either 12 or preferably 13 but it hasn't happened yet.
13. Cave
14. Fitzy
15. Nacewa

As I have been one of his major critics, I must congratualte Fitzy's eturn to superb form of recent times. Very gald he didn't go to the RWC as he really didn't deserve to, esp ahead of anyone that went, but has really knuckled down and relaxed all at the same time to improve his form, performance and individual contribution and his team responsibilities. Also pushed on again since the boys returned from RWC duty.

But Visser gets the 11 jersey.

Correct - Greig Laidlaw

roddersm wrote:If you don't want to be chased down the street and called a banker*, I'd advise you all to agree with Comforts team.....

Comfort wrote:

roddersm wrote:If you don't want to be chased down the street and called a banker*, I'd advise you all to agree with Comforts team.....

Sorry comfort...only yanking your chain sir!

Rory_Gallagher wrote: I honestly have always thought Roberts would do better at 13 with a creative 12 inside him. JD2 to me has always been more effective at 12 also. I think that is obvious, when you look at his form for Scarlets at 12, and then his form for Wales at 13. He is much more dangerous at 12. Roberts and his direct running would hugely benefit from the likes of Davies or Beck inside him I feel. I do not know enough about Williams however, he has never really stood out for me.

JD2 is used very differently for Wales than he is for the Scarlets, at his region he's the go-to attacking centre, with Wales he's very much the sweeper/cover to allow Roberts to go on his barnstorming-runs or shoot out of the line defensively to make the hit. It seems JD2 has had to curb his attacking instincts in the interest of the team for Wales, but its no coincidence that the maturing partnership with JD2 has come at the same time Roberts has been hitting top form for Wales. At 13 JD2 still has the pace and power to attack the outside shoulder aswell, we're low on natural 13s in Wales at the moment, JD2's the only one who's really been successful with Roberts inside him.

roddersm wrote:

Wheres the 'rabid nutter' emoticon when you need it?!

Mickado wrote:6 Ulster players though? C'mon man.

I know reading it back now 6 is alot, take out Afoa though and replace him with another prop from a different team. I was and am really stumped for props as ive only saw highlights of majority of other games and the Ulster ones in full. With Tuhoy and Ferris i could make an arguement for a number of other players namely Toner and Warbarton but Ferris has just been soooo good for Ulster i thought he had to be included.

So replacing Afoa and Tuhoy takes me to 4 Ulstermen or 3 if you want to substitue in Warbarton. Any better??

Morrison at 12

From a Pro12 point of view, looking at Leinster I think the standouts that might go towards a midway Rabid12 XV are;

Front row - All solid performers sharing the workload, no real standout
Second row - Toner head and shoulders above anyone else since the start of the season
Back row - Leo Auv'a worthy of being mentioned, the 'stars' of the backrow have played minimal Pro12 so far
Halfbacks - Madigan definitely in with a strong shout. Getting the backs moving, keeping his pack going forward, passing, making breaks. Only limiting factor on him is Schmidts ordering for goal kickers (Sexton if starting, McFadden next if starting, Nacewa third in line if starting, then Madigan). It isn't that his goal kicking is flaky, but McF and Nacewa are more likely to be called on in high pressure, short notice situations and must have good gametime practice in that case. If he was given that opportunity, he could easily be near the top of the points board also.
Centres - too much rotation for real standouts (which have come more in HCup than Pro12 in my personal view)
Back3 - Nacewa has be fab as always. Fitz is back to international quality play, and started off the season playing weakened teams so had a field day. Dave Kearney is impressing me more and more with solid games. Fionn Carr slightly limited on game time recently but excellent for the first while. All worthy of debate for inclusion.


Looking elsewhere;
- Visser has been top notch
- POM has had an excellent Pro12 this season so far
- O'Halloran on the wing for Connacht is worthy of a mention

the best players in their positions (not necessarily selected as a team)

15-9 Nacewa, McVisser, Laulala, Mafi, Brew, Burton, Cussiter
1-8 Duncan Jones, Best, Adam Jones, Ryan Jones, POC, Lydiate, Tipuric, Faletau.

Scot Abroad wrote:Morrison at 12

I love comedy

wales606 wrote:11. Cuthbert

First season and he is scoring tries for fun and has forced his way into the Welsh squad and may even be one of our starting wings in the 6Ns.

But closes his eyes under the high ball. Come on, he's a donkey.

Well, Mick, I did include him in the side, so insofar as my irrelevant opinion goes, I have rewarded his good form. Just saying that he isn't that good, but I freely admit he was better than last season.

Glas a du wrote:the best players in their positions (not necessarily selected as a team)

15-9 Nacewa, McVisser, Laulala, Mafi, Brew, Burton, Cussiter
1-8 Duncan Jones, Best, Adam Jones, Ryan Jones, POC, Lydiate, Tipuric, Faletau.

Has lydiate actually played any po 12 games?

Ah yeah, I know. I just didn’t think there was much need for a caveat to be honest. he’s done well, he makes the team, happy days.

Backrower678,

No, Warburton not allowed. He’s only played 2 games. This isn’t a thread to put together the best possible team in the league, it’s talking about who has been the best in their position, Ferris with 3 games, and Warburton with 2 cannot be considered in my opinion.

Mickado wrote:Ah yeah, I know. I just didn’t think there was much need for a caveat to be honest. he’s done well, he makes the team, happy days.

Backrower678,

No, Warburton not allowed. He’s only played 2 games. This isn’t a thread to put together the best possible team in the league, it’s talking about who has been the best in their position, Ferris with 3 games, and Warburton with 2 cannot be considered in my opinion.

+1 Perhaps we should insist that players will have appeared in >60% of Rabo games to be considered?

Standulstermen wrote:

Glas a du wrote:the best players in their positions (not necessarily selected as a team)

15-9 Nacewa, McVisser, Laulala, Mafi, Brew, Burton, Cussiter
1-8 Duncan Jones, Best, Adam Jones, Ryan Jones, POC, Lydiate, Tipuric, Faletau.

Has lydiate actually played any po 12 games?

3 in the last fortnight.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Mickado wrote:Ah yeah, I know. I just didn’t think there was much need for a caveat to be honest. he’s done well, he makes the team, happy days.

Backrower678,

No, Warburton not allowed. He’s only played 2 games. This isn’t a thread to put together the best possible team in the league, it’s talking about who has been the best in their position, Ferris with 3 games, and Warburton with 2 cannot be considered in my opinion.

+1 Perhaps we should insist that players will have appeared in >60% of Rabo games to be considered?

Fascist!

Glas a du wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:

Glas a du wrote:the best players in their positions (not necessarily selected as a team)

15-9 Nacewa, McVisser, Laulala, Mafi, Brew, Burton, Cussiter
1-8 Duncan Jones, Best, Adam Jones, Ryan Jones, POC, Lydiate, Tipuric, Faletau.

Has lydiate actually played any po 12 games?

3 in the last fortnight.

Not enough then to really be considered. I think the team needs to reflect the table in some way. We all are guilty of not seeing all the games but surely then the likes of Leinster, Ospreys, Munster and glasgow should have a few names. like I mentioned I can only think of one definite for ulster.

Leinster have rotated alot though Stand hence the number of players from them maybe doesn't necessarily reflect their league position, plus they had a lot of guys at the RWC.

The top Scots performers for consideration should be:

2. Ford
3. Cusack
4. Gray
6. Harley
9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
13. NDL
14. Visser
15. Hogg

Each of the above has been consistently good throughout the Rabo12 so far this season and deserve consideration for the team of the year at this stage.