Ulster v Leicester HC Pool 4. Friday 13th Jan ko 8.00pm

The provisional Ulster squad to face Leicester Tigers in Friday's crucial Heineken Cup match with Leicester at Ravenhill has been named...

Pedrie Wannenburg (foot) and Ian Humphreys (hamstring) were forced off the field in the win over Edinburgh at the weekend but have both been named in the 33 man panel and are in contention to play in the Pool 4 clash. Young backline trio Luke Marshall, Paddy Jackson and Nevin Spence (all ankle) have returned to training this week and are available for selection if required. Mike McComish is also available after shaking off a shoulder injury.
Meanwhile prop Declan Fitzpatrick’s neck injury was reviewed last week and he is likely to be out of action for 4-6 weeks. Paddy McAllister and Peter Nelson also miss out.

Leicester have been hit by injuries to England internationals Toby Flood, Manu Tuilagi and Louis Deacon who are all ruled out, although Flood’s replacement at flyhalf - Billy Twelvetrees - scored all of his side’s points in the 29-11 win over Wasps on Saturday.

Leicester have a formidable record in the Heineken Cup and have qualified for the knock-out stages ten times. They have contested five finals, winning back-to-back titles in 2001 and 2002, but losing the showpiece matches in 1997, 2007 and 2009.

Ulster are currently top of Pool 4 on 14 points, with the Tigers trailing by two going into this crunch match. Defeat for either side would almost certainly end their dreams of reaching the last eight this season. Clermont Auvergne are just one point behind Leicester in the pool standings and will travel to Aironi this weekend before hosting Ulster the following week.

Ulster Team to play Leicester, Fri 13th January, Ravenhill (kick-off 8.00pm):

ULSTER (15-9) S Terblanche; A Trimble, D Cave, P Wallace, C Gilroy; I Humphreys, R Pienaar (1-8) T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, S Ferris, C Henry, P Wannenburg

Replacements (16-23): N Brady, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson, W Faloon, P Marshall, I Whitten, A D'Arcy

Leicester Tigers (v Ulster Rugby, Ravenhill, Friday 8pm)
15 Geordan Murphy (c)
14 Horacio Agulla
13 Matt Smith
12 Anthony Allen
11 Alesana Tuilagi
10 Billy Twelvetrees
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Rob Hawkins
3 Martin Castrogiovanni
4 Steve Mafi
5 Geoff Parling
6 Tom Croft
7 Julian Salvi
8 Thomas Waldrom

Replacements
16 George Chuter
17 Boris Stankovich
18 Dan Cole
19 Ed Slater
20 Ben Woods
21 Sam Harrison
22 Jeremy Staunton
23 Scott Hamilton

Anyone else looking forward to this?......

Ulster by 8...SUFTUM!

Great to hear that Marshall, Spence and Jackson are back. They will hopefully have a big part to play during the 6N

If everyone is fit and raring to go then we are in for a real humdinger of a game. I can see us shaking up young Twelvetrees at the start to put him under a bit of pressure. That's something Wasps failed to do at the weekend. After that it will be a case of making as few mistakes as possible and taking the chances as they are presented. One thing Leicester will be good defensively therefore we will need to be patient. If we continue to play the attacking rugby we have been playing over the last couple of games then I would be confident of scoring tries against anyone. Can we get 4 and a Bonus Point? I certainly think so. I would be realistic enough though to believe a Leicester team at their best can win almost anywhere.

Super confident at the weekend but getting a bit nervous as the game gets closer. Bring it on

Another meaningless squad list - Luke Marshall is not even on the HC squad .

To be honest these early lists are useless. The unavailable due to injury are the guys not training at all, some of the others are not certain to be match fit.

I notice Luke isn't mentioned in the backs list.

Maybe they mention him in the blurb to shroud the mistake of leaving him out of the HEC list?

Glad this thread has started, really really looking forward to this match.

Normally would have been to Ravenhill about 5 times this far in the season, but money, work and time have meant that this is my first game of the season, but'll it'll be a good one.

We are in a bit of danger regarding props, most managers will change them after 60 mins and bring on replacements, but I see us only changing Court. Best and Afoa will play the full game.
So I can see that Leicester will win the scrum for the last 15 mins, before that I'd say scrum will be even, or slightly in Ulsters favour.

Lineout to Ulster, think we won it in first game and should do at home.

will Croft play, Ferris was great in the first game, and is really in form, I see him putting the Croft or Ferris arguement to bed in this game.

Looking forward to seeing Twelvetrees, he's bigged up in England and if last weekend is anything to go by, he's the dangerman in the team. He'll be able to run through Humph, if we don't move him to the wing when defending quick enough.

if Humph doesn't recover Marshall/Pienaar would be good to see, but has Pienaar featured enough at 10 this season to play a full game at 10? he is quality but would rather he had had more time at 10 if having to play the full game.

No Manu Tuilagi is a godsend (though I wanted to see him play), but it's going to be the usual Ulster centers argument, but I think it'll be Wallace/Cave, which is fine by me.

Fullback I'm not sure, I'm a fan of attacking D'arcy, but maybe perfer Terblanche's experience here, that said D'arcxy did start in the Q final last year so he has the experience, I'll go D'arcy. Murphy at fullback is just quality, maybe doesn't have the pace of old but very skillfull attacking and defending.

All in all it's very even, Leicester th emore experienced team, Ulster cancel this out with home advantage. In the last game Ulster looked good for most of it, but seamed to be relying on an individuel to do something, but for the last ween of games, Ulster have been playing as a team and attacking better (2bp wins against Munster and Edinburgh, neither is ever easy).

However as much as Ulster have improved from the last game so have Leicester, up to forth in the table, a big win over Wasps, players playing together, WC players back up to speed. Have Depth, quality depth in the squad.

I'd say its a 55/45 game, in Ulsters favour due to being at home.

geoff998rugby wrote:Another meaningless squad list - Luke Marshall is not even on the HC squad .

To be honest these early lists are useless. The unavailable due to injury are the guys not training at all, some of the others are not certain to be match fit.

Geoff, I keep looking at the early squad list to check if you and I are on it.

As well as those defintely out George Chuter left the pitch early on Saturday and would seem from the suggestions in the local media is likely to only the make the bench. Long term absentees Jordan Crane and Craig Newby are still out injured as well but Ayerza and Castro should return.

Tigers team likely to be;

1.Marcos Ayerza
2.Rob Hawkins
3.Martin Castrogiovanni
4.Ed Slater
5.Geoff Parling
6.Tom Croft
7.Julian Salvi
8.Thomas Waldrom
9.Ben Youngs
10.Billy Twelvetrees
11.Alesana Tuilagi
12.Anthony Allen
13.Matt Smith
14.Horacio Agulla
15.Geordan Murphy

Subs; Boris Stankovitch, George Chuter, Dan Cole, Steve Mafi, Ben Woods, Micky Young, Jeremy Staunton, Scott Hamilton.

I can see us shaking up young Twelvetrees at the start to put him under a bit of pressure.

Ball in hand he is pretty unflapable, especially because he always has the option of making ground himself if nothing is on. At over 6ft and about 15 and a half stone he's not a small chap (trying to run over him is pretty futile). His kicking is somewhat inconsistent so you never know how that will go but his range is about 60m depending on the conditions.

If Ulster are going to target him then a tactical kicking game will probably be their best bet especially if they have pacey charge down options as Twelvetrees is a tall player and with his long legs his kicking action is quite slow. Accuracy from hand is pretty average even if range can be comfortably 50m plus. He wasn't pushing himself vs Wasps (making sure the ball was safely into the stands) and was still pushing those penalties around 40 to 50 metres. Open play was not so convincing twice missing routine touches but his bombs caused some real issues (bigger issues if Tigers had a decent kick chase).

Can't wait for this, I think Ulster are gonna win and I'm not saying anymore than that.

McAllister is a big loss from the bench I feel, though Macklin and Black have done well in recent games. McLaughlin had no problem changing the entire front row in the home game against Clermont and the youngsters performed well against a very experienced Leinster front three. I wouldn't be overly worried on that score.
Kings, I wouldn't look too closely at Leicesters game at the weekend. But for the first 15/20 minutes Wasps were very poor. As poor as I have seen any Premiership team this season.

will Croft play, Ferris was great in the first game, and is really in form, I see him putting the Croft or Ferris arguement to bed in this game

Interesting that. The Tigers fans on the offy board weren't keen on the Croft performance, his form dipped after the RWC but he played probably his best game of the season last weekend (as did Geordan). Ferris, however, was viewed as pretty poor. Great break in the first half but looked like a lost puppy in the second and butchered two or three promising outside breaks by running sideways and cutting out all the space. I think the Croft vs Ferris thing is likely to run to the next Lions Tour though this will be an interesting chapter.

I'd say its a 55/45 game, in Ulsters favour due to being at home.

I'd say 60/40 in Ulster's favour. Tigers are missing two key leaders in Deacon and Flood (Crane and Newby are also normally vice captains) and the midfield really lacks that explosiveness provided by Manu. At home we'd get away with this but at Ravenhill I doubt we will. The scrum is strong and will certainly be stronger than last weekend (Cockerill went light and mobile) and the lineout will be competitive with Parling and Croft but on the tactical side I can see us getting caught out, especially if the weather is bad.

Ulster's front row has been destroying everything in front of it this season, in our last two games against Munster and Edinburgh we've scored trys from the other teams put in.

Court, Best, Afoa
vs
Ayerza, Hawkins, Castrogiovanni

Cant wait, think Ulster have the edge here though.

Depends how Hawkins shows up there and who the second rows are AD. I'd have Ayerza and Castro over Court and Afoa every day of the week but Best is a class above Hawkins and minus Deacon's pushing the Tigers scrum is never quite as good. Slater will add power but if Mafi starts instead then I think Ulster will have the nudge.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Ulster's front row has been destroying everything in front of it this season, in our last two games against Munster and Edinburgh we've scored trys from the other teams put in.

Court, Best, Afoa
vs
Ayerza, Hawkins, Castrogiovanni

Cant wait, think Ulster have the edge here though.

Leicester have number of letters advantage, if they put names on shirts thats like an extra 6g in the scrum.

Afoa has been on fire since his arrival no worries on that score - better than Botha imv

geoff998rugby wrote:Afoa has been on fire since his arrival no worries on that score - better than Botha imv

Had that discussion this morning. Agree 100% with you. Apparently he made 30 odd meters with the ball in hand on Friday night.

	Team	P	W	D	L	F	A	BP	PTS
1	Ulster	4	3	0	1	102	61	2	14
2	Leicester	4	3	0	1	83	70	0	12
3	Clermont Auvergne	4	2	0	2	114	54	3	11
4	Aironi	4	0	0	4	45	159	0	0

The race to 21/22 points is on.
Assuming that Clermont don't slip up and there is is no draw at Ravenhill, then the winner there c/should qualify (esp with a WBP).

I hope that the Tigers don't play as badly as they were/made to look at Welford Road.
Really, really tough to call.
But I rather agree with Kingshu "I'd say its a 55/45 game, in Ulsters favour due to being at home."
And Rava "But for the first 15/20 minutes Wasps were very poor. As poor as I have seen any Premiership team this season." - Tigers barely touched the ball in the first seven minutes.

Portnoy wrote:

I hope that the Tigers don't play as badly as they were/made to look at Welford Road.
Really, really tough to call.
But I rather agree with Kingshu "I'd say its a 55/45 game, in Ulsters favour due to being at home."
And Rava "But for the first 15/20 minutes Wasps were very poor. As poor as I have seen any Premiership team this season." - Tigers barely touched the ball in the first seven minutes.

Sorry Portnoy, my bad English. I did intend to infer Wasps only played for the first 15/20 minutes.

To be fair the Wasps defence was pretty brilliant in it's line speed and ability to slow the ball down. The problems they had were getting the set pieces to work and looking after the ball in attack (some terrible passes and choices made ball in hand). They actually kicked rather brilliantly, which kept them in the game.

Tigers never got out of third gear and only used that sparingly. They'll need a greater intensity to beat Ulster at Ravenhill.

formerly known as Sam wrote:As well as those defintely out George Chuter left the pitch early on Saturday and would seem from the suggestions in the local media is likely to only the make the bench. Long term absentees Jordan Crane and Craig Newby are still out injured as well but Ayerza and Castro should return.

Tigers team likely to be;

1.Marcos Ayerza
2.Rob Hawkins
3.Martin Castrogiovanni
4.Ed Slater
5.Geoff Parling
6.Tom Croft
7.Julian Salvi
8.Thomas Waldrom
9.Ben Youngs
10.Billy Twelvetrees
11.Alesana Tuilagi
12.Anthony Allen
13.Matt Smith
14.Horacio Agulla
15.Geordan Murphy

Subs; Boris Stankovitch, George Chuter, Dan Cole, Steve Mafi, Ben Woods, Micky Young, Jeremy Staunton, Scott Hamilton.

I can see us shaking up young Twelvetrees at the start to put him under a bit of pressure.

Ball in hand he is pretty unflapable, especially because he always has the option of making ground himself if nothing is on. At over 6ft and about 15 and a half stone he's not a small chap (trying to run over him is pretty futile). His kicking is somewhat inconsistent so you never know how that will go but his range is about 60m depending on the conditions.

If Ulster are going to target him then a tactical kicking game will probably be their best bet especially if they have pacey charge down options as Twelvetrees is a tall player and with his long legs his kicking action is quite slow. Accuracy from hand is pretty average even if range can be comfortably 50m plus. He wasn't pushing himself vs Wasps (making sure the ball was safely into the stands) and was still pushing those penalties around 40 to 50 metres. Open play was not so convincing twice missing routine touches but his bombs caused some real issues (bigger issues if Tigers had a decent kick chase).

Mm I reckon Ferris could give him quite a challenge

Interesting insight into why Ferris can be destructive - over 10 metres he has been measured as the fastest player at the club - better than any back !

Also over 50 metres Paul marshall is the quickest

Ulster lads - if Humpries is injured who will be the half backs? Pienaar and Marshall?

Yep thats would be the decision.

Many here, me included, actually think it is a stronger partnership

Might be Marshall and pienaar anyway Mick.

I wouldn't dispute that at all, Marshall is a quality player. Reminds me of Stringer a bit but with a bit more to his game. I thought Pienaar had said he didn't want to play at OH though? I know he will step in if needed but has he played there while Hump has been fit before?

He said "I prefer 9, will play 10 if needed, just dont ask me to play 15"

I think he will be fine if he feels it is the only way to win the game

Ah happy days so.

I’ll be watching this game intently. Could be the tie of the round.

Geoff,

Do you think it would be fair to say that the whole "I want to be a 9 and only a 9" thing is less of an issue for him now than it was when he was deciding to come at first?

He has had a good run of being picked at 9 and has shown what he can do there. I suspect he cares less now.

I don't know of course, only guessing.

Mm I reckon Ferris could give him quite a challenge

Yes give him that instruction, will simplify the breakdown contest and will keep our forwards fresher otherwise they'll running the width of the pitch to catch up with Stephan 'the crab' Ferris.

Quins tried a similar tactic last season and just sent the sizeable inside centre Turner-Hall down the 10 channel. He got stopped on the gainline a couple of times and persisted until Twelvetrees judo style dumped him on the floor and turned the ball over. After that he tried to run through the gaps. If Ulster have been studying Tigers they'll look to attack down the edge of the breakdown and on the blindsides of rucks. That's generally where Tigers concede line breaks.

Nice WUM attempt Sam

The thing is, Ferris can run through players and still compete in the breakdown contest, and tackle anything that moves. Anyway, with Croft and Waldrom starting I doubt Ferris would be needed at the breakdown anyway the wind would be a challenge for Croft at the breakdown.

MrsP wrote:Geoff,

Do you think it would be fair to say that the whole "I want to be a 9 and only a 9" thing is less of an issue for him now than it was when he was deciding to come at first?

He has had a good run of being picked at 9 and has shown what he can do there. I suspect he cares less now.

I don't know of course, only guessing.

I think you are absolutely spot on .
I think it is fair to say that he came here wanting to develop his career and this was his primary concern and he felt he could do that best by playing in his prefered position.
As time has gone he has grown to enjoy his time him both as a club and as a home such that he a) doesn't want to leave Ulster b) he doesn't want to leave Northern Ireland. Bottom line he is more a team man now and will do what it takes to win in an Ulster shirt.

Also as has been pointed out elsewhere, he has a baby on the way and the last thing he wants to do is move.
Ulster want Pienaer, Pienaer wants Ulster - only those eejits in Dublin with their new ruling can prevent a new contract being signed.

The changes the IRFU have made to the NIQ rules are so unfair in so many ways.

Some of these players have come with a view to making their lives here if it all works out and it just seems plain wrong to change the rules at this stage. Morally as well as from a rugby point of view.

But that is another thread.

Sorry!

Anyway, with Croft and Waldrom starting I doubt Ferris would be needed at the breakdown

He seemed to be testing that theory in the last game. Well that or his one run past an academy centre had left him all tired out. Tuhoy and Wannerberg along with Best were the ones that impressed last time out. If Ferris could do a poor man interpretation of Croft's wider game style again that would be appreciated. Actually that scrum half you had last time was pretty good as well, though we only won because Ben Youngs came on and changed the tempo.

Wow! Look at the posts so far. Everyone is getting revved up for this one. Going to be fantastic match. Only thing is I hope it doesn't get bogged down in the forwards. I think Ulster have the home edge, but this will be nut-cutting close. Can't wait (also means the week is over......). I think the winner of the pool will have a great chance of getting to the final.

[quote="formerly known as Sam"]

If Ulster have been studying Tigers they'll look to attack down the edge of the breakdown and on the blindsides of rucks. That's generally where Tigers concede line breaks.

Que Paul 'the whippet' Marshall!

I don't think it necessarily has to be close. If ulster turn up like they can we can be well clear. Similarly if we implode like we can Leicester could romp home. Too difficult to call this one. Quietly confident that we can get the 4-0 spread on points that we need but who knows. These are the nights we all want to see at ravenhill though.

[quote="Kingshu"]

formerly known as Sam wrote:

If Ulster have been studying Tigers they'll look to attack down the edge of the breakdown and on the blindsides of rucks. That's generally where Tigers concede line breaks.

Que Paul 'the whippet' Marshall!

Of course Ben Youngs has never taken on the fringes.

Cockers may as well cancel the flight and forego the match by default then?

Wow. Tigers fans are really uncomfortable with how much better than Croft Ferris is, aren't they? Quite touchy.

How do you see it panning out Portnoy?

MrsP wrote:How do you see it panning out Portnoy?

Mrs P, Portnoy doesn't answer direct questions don't you know

You need to say something detrimental to his team (or the Aviva Prem) for him to respond

Dunno Mrs P.

I don't see Tigers playing as poorly as at WR.

But this is your patch.

Whichever way it goes, I hope for a good, fair game. That's the best anyoune can hope for.

Whoever loses is a gonner. Not much to play for.

And to my mind (before the teams are announced) that's most likely the Tigers. In my experience of watching Billy 12T, I've rarely seen him play well in two consecutive games. And his long-range and difficult kicks are somehow seem to be more reliable than his 'easy' shots a bit like Gavin Henson but without (as yet, anyway) the obvious character flaws. Plus he's only a kid and as yet hasn't convinced me of his ability to handle the pressure of the big game - but like Sexton, that will come I suspect.

I desperately hope for a classic but I suspect that I will be disappointed.

Who's reffing?

Rava wrote:

MrsP wrote:How do you see it panning out Portnoy?

You need to say something detrimental to his team (or the Aviva Prem) for him to respond

I'm a heretic and hold very strong Anti-Jeff views because of a number reasons. And I'm quite happy to criticise The Tigers.

I'm just my own man with strong views about rugby.

Isn't it Poite reffing?

Portnoy wrote:

Rava wrote:

MrsP wrote:How do you see it panning out Portnoy?

Mrs P, Portnoy doesn't answer direct questions don't you know

You need to say something detrimental to his team (or the Aviva Prem) for him to respond

Funny that you said that Rava whilst I was penning my response.

Portnoy.

"Whichever way it goes, I hope for a good, fair game. That's the best anyoune can hope for." - Agreed my Friend

Ref is Romain Poite. Should be OK?

Hope so Rava.

Don Alfonso wrote:Wow. Tigers fans are really uncomfortable with how much better than Croft Ferris is, aren't they? Quite touchy.

Really...

Don't rise to the bait nathan.

It could be an absolute corker!

But the occasion may dictate otherwise.

Certainly will be exciting!

Sell out too I believe.

I echo your desire for a good, fair game Portnoy.

I hope we don't have a power cut this Friday or I'll be down the road trying to watch through the fence!!!

Ach, just a wee counter-WUM to Sam. No harm, no foul.

Should be a cracking game. Any of you Leicester lads heading over? Won't be there myself, but it should be fantastic.