Ulster v Leicester HC Pool 4. Friday 13th Jan ko 8.00pm

First topic message reminder :

The provisional Ulster squad to face Leicester Tigers in Friday's crucial Heineken Cup match with Leicester at Ravenhill has been named...

Pedrie Wannenburg (foot) and Ian Humphreys (hamstring) were forced off the field in the win over Edinburgh at the weekend but have both been named in the 33 man panel and are in contention to play in the Pool 4 clash. Young backline trio Luke Marshall, Paddy Jackson and Nevin Spence (all ankle) have returned to training this week and are available for selection if required. Mike McComish is also available after shaking off a shoulder injury.
Meanwhile prop Declan Fitzpatrick’s neck injury was reviewed last week and he is likely to be out of action for 4-6 weeks. Paddy McAllister and Peter Nelson also miss out.

Leicester have been hit by injuries to England internationals Toby Flood, Manu Tuilagi and Louis Deacon who are all ruled out, although Flood’s replacement at flyhalf - Billy Twelvetrees - scored all of his side’s points in the 29-11 win over Wasps on Saturday.

Leicester have a formidable record in the Heineken Cup and have qualified for the knock-out stages ten times. They have contested five finals, winning back-to-back titles in 2001 and 2002, but losing the showpiece matches in 1997, 2007 and 2009.

Ulster are currently top of Pool 4 on 14 points, with the Tigers trailing by two going into this crunch match. Defeat for either side would almost certainly end their dreams of reaching the last eight this season. Clermont Auvergne are just one point behind Leicester in the pool standings and will travel to Aironi this weekend before hosting Ulster the following week.

Ulster Team to play Leicester, Fri 13th January, Ravenhill (kick-off 8.00pm):

ULSTER (15-9) S Terblanche; A Trimble, D Cave, P Wallace, C Gilroy; I Humphreys, R Pienaar (1-8) T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, S Ferris, C Henry, P Wannenburg

Replacements (16-23): N Brady, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson, W Faloon, P Marshall, I Whitten, A D'Arcy

Leicester Tigers (v Ulster Rugby, Ravenhill, Friday 8pm)
15 Geordan Murphy (c)
14 Horacio Agulla
13 Matt Smith
12 Anthony Allen
11 Alesana Tuilagi
10 Billy Twelvetrees
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Rob Hawkins
3 Martin Castrogiovanni
4 Steve Mafi
5 Geoff Parling
6 Tom Croft
7 Julian Salvi
8 Thomas Waldrom

Replacements
16 George Chuter
17 Boris Stankovich
18 Dan Cole
19 Ed Slater
20 Ben Woods
21 Sam Harrison
22 Jeremy Staunton
23 Scott Hamilton

Strongest team we've out out all season, if we've any hope of breaking Leicester down we need two centres who can pass, offload and kick as well as take contact and tackle. As much as I rate Whitten, selecting him would have been a massive error and I'm glad we've avoided that.

Portnoy wrote:Exactly Maesteg. It's intriguing and I don't believe that anyone can call it with their rugby brain engaged.

Agreed.

Ulster arent a soft draw any more.

Good to see a near full strength Tigers side for once. Big ask for 36 but Im reslly happy Cockerill has kept faith in him for the pressure game. Would have been ridiculous to drop him after last weekend of course. Hopefully Alessana will turn up for 80 minutes.

Notch wrote:Strongest team we've out out all season, if we've any hope of breaking Leicester down we need two centres who can pass, offload and kick as well as take contact and tackle. As much as I rate Whitten, selecting him would have been a massive error and I'm glad we've avoided that.

Why would we want to kick the ball away against Leicester Notch? Whitten ability to offload out of the tackle, as well as take contact, has been a major factor in our attacking play over the past few weeks so I'm not sure what games you've been watching?

The reason you pick a guy like Whitten is so you aren't forced to boot the ball away needlessly.

You want to have the option of putting in a grubber or a chip behind the defensive line to run onto. If they know that the centre is going to run hard and straight every phase they can stay narrow and rush up every phase.

I'm not sure what games you've been watching rodders. Whitten runs hard and straight and will make yards against Pro12 defences. Against Leicester, he won't make many yards at all because he's predictable. We will need to hit it up the centre a fair bit but if we score tries it will be by committing the defence, taking them through phases and then moving the ball wide once we've earned the right.

Why would we want to kick the ball away against Leicester Notch?

Tigers lack of a significant tacitcal kicking game?

Seriously, crash ball down the middle of the park with little variation- Leicester will love that. They will eat that up.

Turning them, drawing players and offloading, less easy.

Horses for courses.

Notch wrote:You want to have the option of putting in a grubber or a chip behind the defensive line to run onto. If they know that the centre is going to run hard and straight every phase they can stay narrow and rush up every phase.

I'm not sure what games you've been watching rodders. Whitten runs hard and straight and will make yards against Pro12 defences. Against Leicester, he won't make many yards at all because he's predictable. We will need to hit it up the centre a fair bit but if we score tries it will be by committing the defence, taking them through phases and then moving the ball wide once we've earned the right.

Lafemi Mafi has plenty of HEC experience and Whitten demolished him.

We have plenty of kicking options and don't need another. If you think we will beat the tigers, who have Geordan Murphy at the back by using grubber kicks the we are in trouble.

Agree on the last point which is why we need Whitten and not Wallace, who doesn't commit defenders but crabs across the field and cuts out space for the players outside him.

I'm not saying we use grubber kicks every phase, it might be on to use it once or twice in the match which may be the difference between a try and no try.

The rest of your post is nonsense. a) Whitten didn't demolish anybdy, he's played very well in th e last two games but 'demolish' is an exaggeration ) Wallace doesn't crab or cut out space, he creates space for the players around him by keeping the ball alive and using his feet to take contact on his terms.

I would rather see the outside backs get their hands on the ball in good attacking positions than have it bogged down in midfield. When it comes down to it, Whitten loses out because he has less judgement of when the ball should go wide and when the ball should be hit up. Less able to judge when the ball should go wide and less able to execute it too. That's the crux of it. We need our decision making to be spot on, and Wallace is one of three or four players in the team who are essential in that regard.

Sorry Notch I don't agree with a single word of that. Its just a load of rhetoric based on how you percieve Whitten and Wallace as players and has no foundation in reality. We've scored 8 tries in 2 games against good opposition with Whitten at 12 so he can't be that stupid or one dimensional.

How many tries did we score or linebreaks did we make against Clermont in this brilliant game Wallace had?

Rodders I think you are serverly over egging the pudding here.

We scored 3 tries against Connacht as opposed to 4 in the last two games.

I would also suggest, that Pienaer playing in the last two games but not against Connacht had far more to do with the slight improvement in tries scored than who played at 12.

Are you Ulster guys the most talkative bunch on here?

(ps not complaining)

Just excitment about the match

Also getting some positive vibes from the squad - the guys are so up for this game they are bursting.

geoff998rugby wrote:Rodders I think you are serverly over egging the pudding here.

We scored 3 tries against Connacht as opposed to 4 in the last two games.

I would also suggest, that Pienaer playing in the last two games but not against Connacht had far more to do with the slight improvement in tries scored than who played at 12.

Yeah probably Geoff...just prematch nerves I suppose...sorry Notch ....Wallace is good player so I'm happy either way. Good point on Pienaar.

There does seem to be more Ulster guys on here than on the old 606 though. Got to side with Notch on this one Rodders. I dont think Paddy crabbed half as much as you say against Clermont and we saw what having a hard, straight running bosher at 12 did for us at welford Road. It is slightly tough on whitten i agree as he has done very little wrong but having the likes of Whitten, D'arcy and Marshall, who have been performing well, on the bench could stand to us in this game.

Fair enough Stand...probably I was harsh on Paddy to emphasise the point.

I would have kept with Whitten but I am fully behind the team we have picked and looking forward to a massive game.

Forecast is pretty good so it will be interesting to see who that favours?

roddersm wrote:Sorry Notch I don't agree with a single word of that. Its just a load of rhetoric based on how you percieve Whitten and Wallace as players and has no foundation in reality.

Funny I was going to say the exact same thing about your post.

You set up straw mans. I don't want to play that game. Saying a player has a kicking game does not mean I think we should grubber kick every ball. Saying Wallace has more experience and makes better decisions does not mean Whitten is 'stupid' or 'one-dimensional'. And as for comparing a game in which we had almost no territory or possession to a game against an understrength Munster and a poor Edinburgh side...

If you watch the Clermont game you'll see Wallace releases players to make significant line breaks on several occasions but more often hits it up and recycles the ball. But the most striking thing is his vision; he's able on several occasions to keep a move going forward by making a half-break and passing. He lends a great deal of continuity to the midfield.

If you watch the Munster game you'll see Whitten plays very well, has a lot of gainline successes and does his job very well but rarely creates opportunities for the men around him off unstructured play- once he gets stopped on the gainline there's no Plan B.

Notch....I've made my point regarding the centres and don't want to spend the rest of this thread discussing it. I am happy with Wallace but would have been happier with Whitten.

I'm also a bit concerned by Leicester's second-row choices – it seems to me we'd be much better balanced with Slater in for Mafi, although that is a very mobile back five we have now.

Pleased to see Hawkins starting too. Does this mean Chuter is now second choice or is he just not 100% yet?

Chuter is not 100% fit.

I'd like to think that Cockerill is rewarding Hawkins for his good display off the bench on Saturday as well.

I'd like to think that Cockerill is rewarding Hawkins for his good display off the bench on Saturday as well.

Me too. I like Chuter, but Hawkins seems to me to be clearly the better all-round player now and shows this whenever he is given the chance.

Agreed. I was surprised that Hawkins did not start ahead of Chuter at the beginning of the season, as in the second half of last year he always looked much more effective.

Mind you, this is one position that Cockers should know something about.

LondonTiger wrote:Agreed. I was surprised that Hawkins did not start ahead of Chuter at the beginning of the season, as in the second half of last year he always looked much more effective.

Mind you, this is one position that Cockers should know something about.

Quite.

Don't know how I'm going to get through the next 12 hours waiting for this one.

The biggest game at Ravenhill in a long long time. Confidence is high. This could be the next "step" that all teams allude to. Judging from the comments elsewhere yesterday (mostly fair), Ulster have yet to convince a lot of people that they are serious challengers on the European stage. Tonight will provide the answers to a lot of those questions. SUFTUM.

SUFTUM!!!...can't wait for tonight...won't get there until after 7 so hope I can get a good spot....

Where is a good spot to go for a (celebratory ) pint after? preferably somewhere near Botanic ave?

Greenwood, Deans and Evans all said we were favourites - not sure I want that.

Never looked forward so much to a game at Ravenhill in years the place will be absolutely rocking tonight. The crowd really must make sure it is the 16th, 17th, 18th...man tonight

Rodders to be honest with the match finishing at about 9.45 I cannot see myself leaving the Scoop - it will be incredible if/when we win.

roddersm wrote:
Where is a good spot to go for a (celebratory ) pint after? preferably somewhere near Botanic ave?

Rodders, why don't you get along to Stand's bar in the Crescent. Called the Taphouse.

http://www.thetaphousebelfast.com/

Can't wait for this game tonight. Going to be huge.

I'm expecting a massively physical encounter!

Yeah know that one Rava, nice spot, just wondering where else was good. My knowledge of the Belfast nightspots is fairly limited.

Bluestone I think this will be incredibly physical, not one for the fainthearted . The Tigers will come to bully ulster and no quarter will be given!

Beautiful dry clear weather too, not much breeze.

rodders, Rava and MrsP would meet you at the Tap, but unfortunately they will be at the BALL (well at least until midnight...)

Indeed rodders! Both teams are putting out huge front rows, should be a really interesting contest. The backrows look set for a real battle too. I think this is the time for Croft to really show he can work well in the tight and win some ball.

This is anyones game it really is. Whichever pack can get the edge in the set piece will take this one I think.

The Tigers will have no fears of Ravenhill, as Cockerhill said they are the only team to have breached Munster at Thomond. They will relish the challenge I think and sound incredibly confident.

You're right regarding the set piece. I'm expecting to see Ferris in Twelvetree's face all day long, really try and put him off his game.

Just hope we don't see Ferris-Genia MKII . . .

bluestonevedder wrote:Just hope we don't see Ferris-Genia MKII . . .

I hope we do!....I actually think the Tigers are marginal favourites for this one. Ulster have found some form but we'll still have to raise our game beyond anything we've seen this season so far. We'll need to cut out the errors and will need huge performances across the board.

We should have got something at Welford and although we will be much stronger than in that game I fear the Tigers will too. This will be a monster game!

Rodders

Should be a decent night back in the bar. Had a couple from Leicester in last night who said they would be returning with some more fans coming over today. We will have cheap pints as well when you show your match ticket and live music. Really excited about tonight.... Less so about working tomorrow morning

Should add I was trying to find something that both supporters wouldn't mind being on the screens so have dug out my Leinster DVD from last season. I figure Leicester fans might be cheered up seeing Northampton get scalped.

I'm sure I'll get in for a quick at some point Stand!

tbh Whoever loses this their H-cup is over.

I honestly think Ulster fans will be more dissapointed if we lose than tigers fans would be if they lost.

I think that Ulster fans are more hopefull of progressing than Tigers fans, as it really has come down to this game, and Ulster have home advantage. With that Tigers fans are half expecting to be out of the H-cup after this game, as they know how hard a place Ravenhill is to come to.

On the other hand Ulster fans know just how good Leicester are, and that they are capable of beating ANYBODY home or away. Therefore we are 45% expecting to be out of the H-cup after this game.

So to sum up whichever team loses, Leicester fans 50% dissapoined with a loss, Ulster fans 55% dissappointed a loss. To be potentionally more upset of going out of europe, compared to a fan of the caliber of Leicester, shows just how much Ulster have come on.

Standulstermen wrote:Rodders

Should be a decent night back in the bar. Had a couple from Leicester in last night who said they would be returning with some more fans coming over today. We will have cheap pints as well when you show your match ticket and live music. Really excited about tonight.... Less so about working tomorrow morning

Should add I was trying to find something that both supporters wouldn't mind being on the screens so have dug out my Leinster DVD from last season. I figure Leicester fans might be cheered up seeing Northampton get scalped.

I'll tell that this Tigers wouldn't enjoy it. And I'd like to hope that most Tigers fans would have been supporting the Saints that day.

Show the Welford Road match instead to give both sets of fans a bit of hope - Tigers were very poor when that game was played.

Portnoy wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Rodders

Should be a decent night back in the bar. Had a couple from Leicester in last night who said they would be returning with some more fans coming over today. We will have cheap pints as well when you show your match ticket and live music. Really excited about tonight.... Less so about working tomorrow morning

Should add I was trying to find something that both supporters wouldn't mind being on the screens so have dug out my Leinster DVD from last season. I figure Leicester fans might be cheered up seeing Northampton get scalped.

I'll tell that this Tigers wouldn't enjoy it. And I'd like to hope that most Tigers fans would have been supporting the Saints that day.

Show the Welford Road match instead to give both sets of fans a bit of hope - Tigers were very poor when that game was played.

You seem to be the exception portnoy judging by the tigers fans I have met down the years (not as many as you in fairness). I know for a fact all the saints fans were cheering on Leinster when they beat you at lansdowne last year.

I honestly think Ulster fans will be more dissapointed if we lose than tigers fans would be if they lost.

I think the Tigers fans appreciate there's some player missing through injury and that Ulster are a good team but they wouldn't be happy if the Tigers don't give the expected 110%. If the go out and make Ulster fight tooth and nail for a tight victory that'll be fine, Ulster were the better team on the day and they will have deserved it. If we go out and give less than 100% and blow the game through some stupid errors and through lack of concentration or organisation then irrelevent of the margin of loss the Tigers fans will be annoyed.

Really we just want to see the team put out a passionate performance to the best of their ability. That way if they lose it was to a better team but they should have a decent chance of winning. To many average performances of late.

Just done my SG prediction - Ulster by a narrow margin.

That way Ill be able to seek some small solace if I'm right.

Standulstermen wrote:Rodders

Should be a decent night back in the bar. Had a couple from Leicester in last night who said they would be returning with some more fans coming over today. We will have cheap pints as well when you show your match ticket and live music. Really excited about tonight.... Less so about working tomorrow morning

Should add I was trying to find something that both supporters wouldn't mind being on the screens so have dug out my Leinster DVD from last season. I figure Leicester fans might be cheered up seeing Northampton get scalped.

Cool! you have a bar! Must drop in in April.

Standulstermen wrote:Rodders

Should be a decent night back in the bar. Had a couple from Leicester in last night who said they would be returning with some more fans coming over today. We will have cheap pints as well when you show your match ticket and live music. Really excited about tonight.... Less so about working tomorrow morning

Should add I was trying to find something that both supporters wouldn't mind being on the screens so have dug out my Leinster DVD from last season. I figure Leicester fans might be cheered up seeing Northampton get scalped.

Portnoy wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Rodders

Should be a decent night back in the bar. Had a couple from Leicester in last night who said they would be returning with some more fans coming over today. We will have cheap pints as well when you show your match ticket and live music. Really excited about tonight.... Less so about working tomorrow morning

Should add I was trying to find something that both supporters wouldn't mind being on the screens so have dug out my Leinster DVD from last season. I figure Leicester fans might be cheered up seeing Northampton get scalped.

I'll tell that this Tigers wouldn't enjoy it. And I'd like to hope that most Tigers fans would have been supporting the Saints that day.

Thats interesting because when we went over to watch Saints v Ulster in last years QF we were also watching Leinster v Leicester and I would suggest that in a crowded pub 100% of Saints supporters and 90% of Ulster supporters were cheering for Leinster.

The Saints fans were passionate about Leicester losing

geoff998rugby wrote:

Portnoy wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Rodders

Should be a decent night back in the bar. Had a couple from Leicester in last night who said they would be returning with some more fans coming over today. We will have cheap pints as well when you show your match ticket and live music. Really excited about tonight.... Less so about working tomorrow morning

Should add I was trying to find something that both supporters wouldn't mind being on the screens so have dug out my Leinster DVD from last season. I figure Leicester fans might be cheered up seeing Northampton get scalped.

I'll tell that this Tigers wouldn't enjoy it. And I'd like to hope that most Tigers fans would have been supporting the Saints that day.

Thats interesting because when we went over to watch Saints v Ulster in last years QF we were also watching Leinster v Leicester and I would suggest that in a crowded pub 100% of Saints supporters and 90% of Ulster supporters were cheering for Leinster.

The Saints fans were passionate about Leicester losing

Jealous little brothers. Its like with us English all discovering Welsh grandparents and cheering Wales in the semi, youw ouldnt get that the other way round

geoff998rugby wrote:

Portnoy wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Rodders

Should be a decent night back in the bar. Had a couple from Leicester in last night who said they would be returning with some more fans coming over today. We will have cheap pints as well when you show your match ticket and live music. Really excited about tonight.... Less so about working tomorrow morning

Should add I was trying to find something that both supporters wouldn't mind being on the screens so have dug out my Leinster DVD from last season. I figure Leicester fans might be cheered up seeing Northampton get scalped.

I'll tell that this Tigers wouldn't enjoy it. And I'd like to hope that most Tigers fans would have been supporting the Saints that day.

Thats interesting because when we went over to watch Saints v Ulster in last years QF we were also watching Leinster v Leicester and I would suggest that in a crowded pub 100% of Saints supporters and 90% of Ulster supporters were cheering for Leinster.

The Saints fans were passionate about Leicester losing

I take your word for it.

Leicester an Saints were then direct rivals for similar qualifications. And it might be influenced by the obsessive nature of traveling fans and beer and respect for the home side.

Can I ask you to take a straw poll of Tigers fans as to who they were supporting in last year's final?

That would be interesting and possibly revealing.

Gladly ask a few in the bar tonight

only 5 more hours...

bluestonevedder wrote:only 5 more hours...

But only 2 hours till the pub!