Ali vs Norton Controversy

Over the years I have always heard that Ken Norton got robbed in the 2nd fight...Every time I have seen the fight I dont understand why.

It is a close fight but a clear 7-5 win win for Ali...Ali won five of the first six rounds.

I have heard people say the 6th round was a Norton round...I disagree Ali landed the more effective punches and hurt Norton in that round.

I also thought the 9th and 12th were clear Ali rounds...Ali got the better of the exchanges in the ninth and hurt Norton again.

Norton blew his load in the 11th and had nothing left in the last round...Luckily for him this wasn't a 15 rounder otherwise he would off got stopped.

I think Norton won his rounds more decisively than Ali so some people wrongly assume he won the fight.

Lets not forget Norton had no complaints about the decision and could see why Ali got the nod...The only controversy was one of the judges scoring it for Norton!!!

Thoughts?

Tend to agree, I have always seen it as an Ali win, think one element of it is the fact Norton is a guy common sense tells you Ali should not be having the problems he did with, when this happens it can often slightly skew the perception of the fight, think similar happened with Sturm vs Murray recently. Must add though is an age since I watched any of the Ali Norton fights.

Norton would always give Ali problems...This fight is probably the best of the trilogy to watch Rowley if you wanted to see them again.

Is this the fight where Harry carpenter is very vocal at the end stating Norton was the clear winner and Ali didn't deserve the win?

If so then this could be a big factor as things like that stick in people's minds.

I haven't seen the fight myself though so can't comment.

I believe that was the third fight, Valero.

I always saw the second fight for Ali, also.

Funnily enough, the third fight, which most folks see as a daylight robbery, was the only unanimous decision. I saw it clearly for Norton along with most folks, but here's another twist.

The result was so controversial that one of the American TV channels ran it again a couple of nights later with an invited studio panel of experts, one of whom was Joe Frazier. Frazier was a personal friend of Norton, ( which is why they never fought, ) and at the time the bad feeling between Joe and Ali was still festering. Nonetheless, Frazier saw the fight dead even.

I keep promising myself to watch it again to see what I might have missed since, as I say, I saw it for Norton at the time.

Might have to watch it again but scored that to Norton...Ali was faded by then anyway.

The third one, PBF?

Yeah the 3rd one.

Would be interesting to see the original scorecards and then watch it again. I haven't seen the entire fight for a very long time ( probably not since it happened, though I can't remember, ) so it would be very instructive.

From what I can remember Ali came on strong in the 2nd half of the fight.

Interesting to note that Norton said unlike other fighters such as Foreman Ali couldn't get to him mentally.

I believe that Norton always felt that he had Ali's number, PBF. His double jab would always expose the older Ali's diminished reflexes, in my opinion, though I have little doubt that first generation Ali would have had far fewer problems with him.

Iv never actually seen the full Ali v Norton 3rd fight only highlights but my brother is old enough to remember it and he said he scored it for Norton and so did lots of other local people who had watch it back then

I feel the same way...Didn't Norton make Ali look silly in sparring before they fought?

Pretty sure that the majority did, Steffan.

' The Ring Chronicle of Boxing ' seems to believe that it all came down to the last round and that Ali nicked it. The book also describes how Norton's corner had told him to go out and coast the last round, since he was comfortably ahead.

It's fashionable, in some quarters, to say that Ali had a few gifts along the way, and I've never bought into that idea. I do, however, believe that he got out of jail in this fight and probably the Jimmy Young fight, also, though Young was only marginally less awful than Ali that night.

The genius of PBF wrote:I feel the same way...Didn't Norton make Ali look silly in sparring before they fought?

I have no idea, mate.

HumanWindmill wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:I feel the same way...Didn't Norton make Ali look silly in sparring before they fought?

I have no idea, mate.

Not sure - maybe - Futch, of course - based a lot of his plan for Ali on his putative idea of how a Jack Johnson - Ali superfight would go. There was this theory that Ali would struggle mightily against anyone who could counterjab and double up - and sure enough - he did.

Mind you - he had plenty of strengths as wel - so it would be a tad unfair to make too much hay of a little weakness.

I dont think the Ali pre exile would struggle as badly with Norton or Johnson. He lost alot of movement in his later years.

The version that danced around Liston would just pepper the more static Johnson at distace with superior speed, movement and ring use in my view.

Is the theory that Ali struggles badly with Johnson based primarily on the coxscorner article?

The irony is, oxy, that as you know Jack Johnson also often pulled back from the jab instead of slipping or blocking it.

Of course Jack's fundamentals, despite the musings of the illustrious azania, were far superior to Ali's.

Still believe that the first generation Ali would have beaten him, though.

I agree with the general feeling here; to me, the fight between Ali and Norton which screams 'controversy' is the third one, rather than the second. In the middle installment I had the fight very, very close, probably even in fact, going in to the championship rounds, but I feel Ali pulled clear late on and won it by a couple of points.

But as much as I love Ali, he got away with murder third time out. Norton would have still been hard done by had the judges awarded a draw, which was the very least he deserved. But to be deemed the loser, he was terribly unlucky.

I agree with you Windy but I could have been swayed by comments from commentator at the time,I do remember at the time someone ringside saying that Ali needs a knockout in this last round to win,I could'nt believe it when the scores were unanimous for Ali.