2012 - Is Lewis on a downward spiral?

Hi all,

Just thought id put the following out there, i want to know what others think and maybe inform me of things i dont know. So...

With Jenson Button finishing ahead of Lewis in 2011 and effectively becoming 1st driver, what will this mean to Lewis Hamilton. Well we know Jenson will have more of a say as to where the development of the car will go and we know Jenson prefers more understeer as opposed to Lewis who prefers more oversteer. Could this make it difficult for Lewis to be fast and therefore affecting his qualifying and ultimately his race performance and results.

Now i know there's more to it than that, drivers drop out of races due to crashes or mechanical issues. Other drivers can have "off days", weather... and so on.

Ignoring that, could Lewis be on a downward spiral of not having the car how he likes, and it causing him to have poor performances and potentially dropping behind Jenson in the WDC. This causing him to finish behind Jenson again.. he cycle the repeats itself.

Do people think that car development could be a major factor next year for Lewis?

Also there's 1st driver privilages like testing new parts etc....

Im sure there are more factors to take into consideration, both for and against what ive said... please share your thoughts.

My thoughts are, i hope firstly Mclaren have provided both drivers a good car from the first race. I also hope Lewis can perform well when it comes to how Mclaren develop the car more towards Jensons driving style. Also what about this seasons tyres, they're supposed to be a little more hard wearing but how much more and how will it affect both drivers.

Discuss!

PS - this is not a slagging off match of Jenson or Lewis so please keep the discussion on track and refrain from malicious comments of either drivers.

Cheers

Gaz

12 views and not one comment. Odd.

Id say it will give him more motivation tbh knowing that Jenson is beating him currently and id doubt he'd like being labeled no.2 at Mclaren it gives him good reason to try harder and hopefully avoid incidents with a bright red Ferrari.


If you think your an F1 Genius try my quiz a few articles down

sorry just read my own article and i could have written it better - was rushing to get it all down.

I severely hope it motivates his to try more, couldnt stand another season like 2011.

I'll give the quiz ago, but had a quick look earlier and was stumped on 3 out of 5 haha.

Their quite tricky to be fair


Id be surprised if had another season like this but who knows til the 1st race of the season

As long as he's learnt something from it and he's stronger for it. Its when something like this happens and the person invovled doesnt take anything positive away from it.

PS - ive submitted my answers to you.... for what its worth

You've made a valid point but hopefully Mclaren aren't stupid and do not put all their eggs in one basket.

Jenson is a great driver but if the car isn't performing properly he will struggle to do anything with it, so I believe they will make a base model with a set up that could oversteer to suit LH or understeer to suit JB.

JB spanking LH last year will be tremendous motivation for LH this year and I believe his poor performance last year would provide valuable experience for LH and teach him to play the percentage game sometimes liek JB does.

I just hope Mclaren, Ferrari, Renault, Mercedes all have cars that are immediately competitive as F1 would be horrible to watch if it's another season of Vettel dominance.

The diffusers are gone, lets hope everyones closer to the red bulls

to put it simply......no!

anything can happen in f1 and it usually does. Hamilton understands what is needed to succeed this season and i fully expect to see a hungry, more determined and all round more responsible driving performance from lewis.

Button no.1????? - I think the payroll suggests otherwise and about 99% of the mclaren workforce understand deep down that Lewis is the more probable man to bring home the drivers title.

few months now!!!

John - Its the backing of MW also that will be important. The rest of the team may feel like that, but if MW says go in another direction they'll surely have to do that.... hopefulyl that will not be the case.

I agree with you BoR, LH been beaten by JB will hopefully give him some experience and make him rethink how he drives overall - like you say knowing when to play the percentage game and when to use his speed.

The thing is Martin Whitmarsh is under a considerable amount of pressure from the off this season. Another failure to land a drivers or constructors title will be seen as another failure on MW's CV and he will surely be given the chop. I would predict that if LH is outperforming JB then MW will understand that backing LH is the correct way forward not only for the team but for his future as team principle. I understand your worry in the fact that ever since JB joined the team, Mclaren has basically split into two separate garages, so MW saying 'go in this direction that will suit Jenson' is nothing new and I still fully expect the drivers to use completely different set-ups this year. I think the key difference this year will be Lewis' driving style and picking up the 3rd, 4th or 5th's is key, something Lewis now understands. Add in the fact his knowledge and understanding of how to use the Pirelli tyre has improved, therefore a key advantage Jenson used last season should be reduced. I expect many of the driver who struggled last season on the tyre, i.e Webber to all improve dramatically.

"Is Lewis on a downward spiral?"

Very premature to be asking questions like that. You may as well ask "Will Bruno Senna revive Williams' fortunes next season?"

With the car playing a significant role in how a driver performs, I think the best thing we can do is simply wait for testing of next season's cars to begin and see how the 2012 McLaren looks - and what Button and Hamilton have to say about it.

As has been well documented, a large part of Lewis' woes last season, were the personal, off-track problems, which affected his attitude and general mentality.

He appears to be over those now, so providing the team delivers a quick car, whose handling characteristics suit his driving style (or can be adapted to suit him), there is no reason why both drivers shouldn't be duking it out at the front of the grid.

I'm hoping and praying thats the case, as much for the team as for Hamilton, as two strong drivers give a team the best chance of winning both titles.

John wrote:
Button no.1????? - I think the payroll suggests otherwise and about 99% of the mclaren workforce understand deep down that Lewis is the more probable man to bring home the drivers title.

And of course you have interviewed the McLaren workforce to ascertain this, have you?


I think the words you were looking for is that the McLaren staff want both drivers to succeed, as that will bring maximum benefit to the team.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:You've made a valid point but hopefully Mclaren aren't stupid and do not put all their eggs in one basket.

Jenson is a great driver but if the car isn't performing properly he will struggle to do anything with it, so I believe they will make a base model with a set up that could oversteer to suit LH or understeer to suit JB.

Very astute observation. McLaren know they have two drivers with contrasting styles. The smartest thing for them to do would be to build a car that can be adapted to suit them both. Of course, whether they do or not is another matter.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:
JB spanking LH last year will be tremendous motivation for LH this year and I believe his poor performance last year would provide valuable experience for LH and teach him to play the percentage game sometimes liek JB does.

Button hardly "spanked" Hamilton. He finished 43 points ahead, which isn't huge when you consider its 25 points for a win. Both won 3 races and scored numerous podiums.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:
I just hope Mclaren, Ferrari, Renault, Mercedes all have cars that are immediately competitive as F1 would be horrible to watch if it's another season of Vettel dominance.

The diffusers are gone, lets hope everyones closer to the red bulls

Amen to that.

dyrewolfe wrote:

John wrote:
Button no.1????? - I think the payroll suggests otherwise and about 99% of the mclaren workforce understand deep down that Lewis is the more probable man to bring home the drivers title.

And of course you have interviewed the McLaren workforce to ascertain this, have you?


I think the words you were looking for is that the McLaren staff want both drivers to succeed, as that will bring maximum benefit to the team.

haha! To be honest dyrewolf i was struggling for something to say regarding this whole topic. Completely premature to be saying stuff like 'is he on a downward spiral etc'. I think people are just getting itchy trigger fingers for topics and critical_mass just couldnt wait no more when creating this topic. as the f1 season draws near it will only get worse - testing will be a nightmare on here!

Sorry if you feel i jumped the gun, i was just trying to gain opinions on what next season could hold for LH in regards to tyres, being no.2 driver and car development. I meant COULD lewis be on a downward spiral. Meaning could, with button leading the car developement hinder LH?

Critical_mass wrote:Sorry if you feel i jumped the gun, i was just trying to gain opinions on what next season could hold for LH in regards to tyres, being no.2 driver and car development. I meant COULD lewis be on a downward spiral. Meaning could, with button leading the car developement hinder LH?

that's okay critical! I think you did jump the gun, we really need to wait for testing. however,
1. LH is not the no.2 driver.....so you need to stop saying this, I've never seen confirmation of this statement and it clearly doesnt exist. If Hamilton was no.2 driver do you think he would contemplate signing a new deal.....NO! Just because Button beats Hamilton in one season by only 43 pts he suddenly is propelled into no.1 driver and running the whole team?????. Button had a monumental year, Lewis had the worst, most shocking season a driver could wish to have........AND the difference was only 43 pts and 3 race wins each!

I would like to see the difference in results and points haul if Jenson had a shocking year and Lewis had a monumental year!

Oh i agree, considering how bad Lewis's was he still only finished 43 points behind JB.

I say he's no.2 driver because isnt it always the case when what ever driver finishes above gets teh lower number on the car and isnt classed as the first driver - thats the reason i said that.

@Critical_mass: I think its fair to say you're jumping the gun a little, asking if Lewis is on a downward spiral.

That said, I suppose its equally fair to say that Lewis / McLaren fans (myself included) have been worried by Hamilton's performances over the last three seasons, not to mention some of the rumours and speculation that have been doing the rounds.

All we can really do right now is just wait and see whether the new car looks like it will give Red Bull a run for their money.

As to your question, I don't believe there is anything in the rules to say that whichever driver finishes higher in the standings becomes the team's No.1 driver (although I believe it helps determine what number they have on their car next season).

Some teams may use the standings to decide the pecking order, if they wish to operate a No.1 and No.2 driver policy, but McLaren have a reputation for giving their drivers equal treatment, until one of them falls out of contention for the title.

Bonjourno!

Oh, this is my specialist subject! A 'Lewis Hamilton on a Downward Spiral’ topic! Delicious!

First of all, Lewis Hamiton is not doing himself any favours by stalling on a new contract with the team. In my mind this is clearly this more than just money.

Looking in with my expert Monza Motorsport Council Spectacles, I would say he does not have confidence in the team to make a new, innovative, championship winning car. This is why he was talking to Red Bull in Canada while his team mate was becoming the Personification of Domination within team Mclaren.

You could ask why the team would get behind a driver that is constantly giving his mechanics more work to do after on track skirmishes. Why would the team get behind a driver who appears to have little confidence in the car development skills?

Of course you could argue why would Hamilton have faith in a team that keep developing 2nd rate cars? (Still better than what Ferrari are serving up as a car these days!) Or why be in a team where he should be number 1 with all the perks and privileges that come with it?

This team has backed him since he was 13 years old. The time has come for him to sign a new contract and start delivering for him team.

Either that or he announces he is leaving at the end of the season so Mclaren can develop the next car around Jenson Button MBE!

My final thought is that there is a lot of mistrust between Hamilton and team Mclaren that have to be resolved before the start of the season. This includes a new contract signing so they can move forward as a team to a future of certainty.

Forza Alonso!

Alessandro

Lewis Hamilton has said he is confident he will sign a new contract to keep him at McLaren beyond 2012.

The 2008 world champion has been with McLaren since he was 13 but his current deal expires at the end of next year.

"I don't think there's any question of my commitment to the team," the 26-year-old said. "I just want to continue on this path."

Asked whether he thought it was likely he would stay, Hamilton replied: "I do. I'm confident about that."

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15928246.stm

I know you rarely miss an opportunity to have a dig at Hamilton but he's going to sign a new contract

If Mclaren come up with a car that is not competitive after the first 3 races do you still think he will sign a new contract? I believe this is the reason stopping him at the moment from committing long term.

He still has an escape route unlike his team mate who is committed long term to this Great British team.

You say he has an escape route........where exactly? I agree it would be sensible to wait until at least China to see exactly where the team and his personal position lies.

1. Ferrari - partnering alonso and replacing massa, you must be joking
2. Red Bull - Red Bull is commited to nurturing and turning Vettel into a multi-world champion and a dominant force in the sport. They have rebuffed any speculation linking a driver with the ability of hamilton with a seat alongside Vettel. They would be stupid to upset the harmony and current no.1 & no.2 driver roles clearly evident at Red Bull.
3. Mercedes - This is the only outside possibility. Rosberg is commited long term and Di Resta is being lined up in my opinion to replace Schumacher at the end of his current deal. I'm expecting something special from Brawn, Bell, Willis & Costa so its an attractive and determined team to join.
4. Mclaren - Stay with the British team which he has knows for over fifteen years, where he will be rewarded with a very lucrative deal. F1 is about timing and Mclaren may be on the verge of developing a competitive car. Nothing worse than moving and finding that the 'grass isnt always greener.
5. No other options......Renault (lotus) alongside Raikkonen.....I don't think so!

We're all presuming Vettel won't move on from Red Bull at some point, He's always maintained he wanted to race for Ferrari one day which will most likely be when Alonso's retired we know what he's like with competitive teammates.....

fernando wrote:We're all presuming Vettel won't move on from Red Bull at some point, He's always maintained he wanted to race for Ferrari one day which will most likely be when Alonso's retired we know what he's like with competitive teammates.....

Depends on the team mate.

Just some news regarding Lewis and Mclaren is that Didier Coton the former manager of Mika Hakkinen has joined the team.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2098309/Lewis-Hamilton-Didier-Coton-joins-team.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Good news. Lets hope Didier does as good a job as he did with Hakkinen.

It would appear that Formula 1 boss, Bernie Ecclestone agrees with Mr Alessandro Ciambella when asked about Hamiltons future at McLaren.

"I think if he does not perform this year he'll be looking maybe to move on, and the team may also be looking for him to move on."

I agree with him 100%. The young drivers coming through at the Mclaren school are fantastic and after last year could be considered more of a prospect in Hamiltons seat.

Interesting stat that since Hamilton was gifted the title in 2008 that he has finished no higher than 4th. Very suprising from a driver so highly rated. I believe that it is down to his consistency in finishing races.

I agree his future is up in the air with McLaren but that is because the team has continually failed to deliver a championship winning car since 2008, therefore Lewis is biding his time with the contract negotiations.

Bernie really needs to shut his pie-hole, these comments just arent needed and are only released to hype up the media coverage regarding the story. Anything can happen in F1 in a matter of months and Lewis could quite easily be winning multiple races with Mclaren, resulting in alot of people with egg on their face after slating a driver of Hamilton's ability. The same can be said with Sterling Moss and rating Vettel as highly as Fangio .

Ciambella stirring up hatred against Hamilton is nothing new, I advice you stick to the day job of searching the quiz answers on google and be done with it.

I wouldn't give anything that comes out of Barmy Bernie's gob any credence whatsoever, following his ludicrous suggestions about making races more interesting for spectators.

I notice he's also suggesting Michael Schumacher should get a drive with Red Bull. Wonder what Vettel would make of that?


Back on topic, I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton does seriously consider his options, if this season isn't a major improvement on the last few. He isn't a kid anymore and the itch to win a second title will be getting harder to ignore.

For me Bernie is simply Poopie stirring. Why ? I don't know.

Personally I would love to see Hamilton go to Red Bull simply because we just don't get enough head to heads in any sport and thats what the punters always want to see however RB would (typicaly) not want to upset the apple cart. That's where I give Mclaren their due where it always seems to be more about the team than the drivers with a mentality along the lines of "if you want to win then sign the best available and sod the egos". And as a result we've had some great head to heads = senna/prost, alonso/hami, hami/button.