Players out of Contract..

Recently we had a thread on Welsh regions players out of contract.

Does anyone know what the status on each of the Aviva Premiership sides players contracts is or the French Top 14?

Would be interested to see who currently is on the market.


On a side note regarding Welsh players contracts - The 4 Regions are still being Audited and that explains why some have not been offered contracts until the results are submitted to the WRU during March. Blues want to offer Gethin a new contract and Scarlets want to keep Davies and have told both players they will table offers as soon as they can (ie March). Players may not wait that long though.

For Tigers;

Hawkins - Hooker
Bucknall - Prop
Slater - Lock (no news would expect to re-sign)
Pienaar - Backrow
Newby - Backrow
Waldrom - 8
Grindal - Scrum Half
Allen - Centre (close to agreeing terms)
Twelvetrees - Centre (close to agreeing terms)
Agulla - Wing
Alesana Tuilagi - Wing (massive offer from Japan reportedly)

For Worcester;
Mullan - Prop
Garvey - Wing
Benjamin - Wing

By no means definitive lists just players I know who are or were out of contract. Wouldn't suprise me if new deals were already done for Slater and Newby.

I can tell you all the Glaws players out of contract:
S.Lawson, Dawiduik, Cortese, Harden, Chistolini, Markham, Buxton, Deacon, Strokosch, Narraway, R.Lawson, Taylor, Tindall, Fuimaono-Sapolu & Voyce.

EFS is definitely off to warmer climates by his own Twitter admission! And it sounds very likely Voyce is returning to Wasps. Narraway is apparently having talks with Saints.

Shotgun Dawiduik

That's how it works isn't it?

Bath:
Abendanon - Weighing up France and S15 offers again
Dixon
Beattie
Cuthbert - Hopefully goes to Scotland

There are some others, but no real first teamers

Hands off Daffy Bathite!! He is being linked to Exeter though. You'll also have to wait another 2 years before you get your mits back on Burns!

Burns wouldn't get in our 22 for the next 2 years, so probably makes sense.

Hope that we are talkng to the hooker though, we need help there, but Britz is being approached as we speak! Get in

But he's 1st choice at the Champions, do you really think he's going to leave for a team in the Amlin? That isn't meant as a sarky remark (well, not entirely!), but he's not exactly in his youth so needs to be part of a successful team now rather than a work in progress.

HKC I think if Brits leaves it will be to one of the top French clubs and for a significant pay rise. If Bath were to lure them it would likely have to be their marquee signing and a doubling or tripling in salary.

As you say Bath simply don't have the current drawing power of the likes of Saints,Sarries and Leicester. They do have money though.

Bath are becomming known for paying out big money on 3 year + contract to experienced players. Brits might well take a chunky pay rise and have it guarenteed for 3 years and consider that compensation for the lack of trophies. Tigers, Saints, Quins and Sarries are unlikely to offer him the same level of remuneration though they will offer him more chance of silverware. Tigers, Quins and Saints don't have wealthy backers so can't just throw money at massive marquee signings and Sarries have a reknowned international and a host of talented youngsters at hooker. Quins and Saints are hardly short of hookers either.

Is the marquee player option for next season the tip over into raising/abolishing the salary cap ? I fear it is as I would prefer it to stay but there are only so many current English test players to go round.
Speaking as a Bath man, Bruce Craig has more disposable income than most Unions and the temptation to hoover up current Welsh/Scot and even Irish ( taking into account their tax breaks) players would be too tempting. Gatland has said players had to be in Wales which has promptly been ignored by key players looking for life changing money. Toulouse have a £16M annual budget and have the squad to cope with their fixture list. Craig could easily make that number available and has intimated as much, subject to a suitable fixture list.

I have tried to suggest a better option with the season and competition restructure for discussion but got shouted down by a few folk on here but the alternative is the French and English leagues going for it on squad sizes and Test experience.

I see on the BBC site Booth, Cockerill and Guscott all making comments on the salary cap which sadly, seems to be becoming inevitable in changing. We could probably debate which clubs could afford a raise but probably most clubs will start to go down the football route.The bar has been raised by the other leagues so the PRL is bound to respond and a marquee player is tip of the iceberg. What do English fans think ?

Just out of interest.

Whose the better player.

Garvey or Benjamin?

Britz couldn't be a marquee signing, can't be someone who already plays in the prem I believe. Much less chance of winning trophies at Bath of course, but maybe he wants to be part of the project?

That's what he signed up to when he joined Sarries, they hadn't won anything for ages and weren't near the top 4 at the time. At least we have been top 4 for most of the last 5 years. Oh and when we win the Amlin, we will be in the Heino anyways. Not a problem.

westisbest wrote:Just out of interest.

Whose the better player.

Garvey or Benjamin?

Really?

Benjamin by a long way

beshocked wrote:HKC I think if Brits leaves it will be to one of the top French clubs and for a significant pay rise. If Bath were to lure them it would likely have to be their marquee signing and a doubling or tripling in salary.

As you say Bath simply don't have the current drawing power of the likes of Saints,Sarries and Leicester. They do have money though.

We have the same amount of money as everyone else! And as you rightly pointed out the other day, the Sarries owner is much richer than Bath's! Keep it consistent fella.

Lots of other factors why he might join Bath, but if it was me I certainly wouldn't and I will be very surprised if he does.

We can't compete with Sarries Leics Saints in terms of trophies, so have to look for other ways. Hence the amazing new training facilities, attempts to drive new stadium, hiring of the current England Captain to make a point, hiring of one of the most famous coaches in the world. There is also the point that someone already made, that we look to offer longer contracts to older players, so they get security, as well as the opportunity to live in a beautiful city, ideal for young families, with loads of schools etc.

Just saying that there are more reasons that rugby reasons fellas and thats even more relevant when you consider the older players who have families and futures after rugby to think about.

You say that Bathite but Garvey is rapid and probably in better form than Benjamin at the moment. Benjamin has more potential, a better finisher, is younger and a bit more intelligent (picks better lines). Garvey is a touch faster (neither are anything other than fast) and seems to chase the ball more (high work rate).

Benjamin will be chased by the big teams but an astute mid table team might snap up Garvey and get good service out of a hard working speedster.

Bathite wrote:

beshocked wrote:HKC I think if Brits leaves it will be to one of the top French clubs and for a significant pay rise. If Bath were to lure them it would likely have to be their marquee signing and a doubling or tripling in salary.

As you say Bath simply don't have the current drawing power of the likes of Saints,Sarries and Leicester. They do have money though.

We have the same amount of money as everyone else! And as you rightly pointed out the other day, the Sarries owner is much richer than Bath's! Keep it consistent fella.

Lots of other factors why he might join Bath, but if it was me I certainly wouldn't and I will be very surprised if he does.

We can't compete with Sarries Leics Saints in terms of trophies, so have to look for other ways. Hence the amazing new training facilities, attempts to drive new stadium, hiring of the current England Captain to make a point, hiring of one of the most famous coaches in the world. There is also the point that someone already made, that we look to offer longer contracts to older players, so they get security, as well as the opportunity to live in a beautiful city, ideal for young families, with loads of schools etc.

Just saying that there are more reasons that rugby reasons fellas and thats even more relevant when you consider the older players who have families and futures after rugby to think about.

Bathite I meant that Saracens are probably pushing the salary cap to the utmost limit. Bath have more disposable income than the other clubs because the likes of Saints and Leicester are probably spending up to the cap already. Some clubs can't afford to.

It's hard to keep a quality squad happy. Especially now the likes of Barritt,Farrell and the other guys are back in the England squad it boosts their value. Rhys Gill's stock has risen too with him being named in the Welsh squad. Our players will definitely attract interest - particularly from the French clubs.

If we sign Ashton that's not going to be cheap either. Even Joel Tomkins who has barely been mentioned now was a fair bit!

Unfortunately hiring Moody and McGeechan hasn't worked. Moody is past his prime. Mcgeechan is not being effective.

Bath need to invest wisely and buy smart. Saints,Leicester and Saracens have hugely boosted the profiles of various players. They have been very savvy. The problem is the smart investments are snapped up by the likes of Saints,Saracens and Leicester which keeps them stronger.

Kyle Eastmond could be a good buy in the end but how much did he cost you?

You might be able to get some good investments soon because Leicester and Saracens in particular need to focus more on squad retention.

As a Saints fan other than Ashton (that everybody already knows about) and Wilson (who has signed for Ulster for next year) then the only other first team player I know of is Downey, who is linked with a move back to Ireland around this time every year but is out of contract after this season. Not sure who would want him though, maybe Munster?

Downey to Munster is sounding close to a done deal on the Grapevine.

All this shows me how smart David Humphries is - other than a NIE player for the backrow and, maybe, one other signing, the squad for next year is already sorted.
Not only that but nearly all are signed for the following year as welll - Muller is the notable exception.

You might be able to get some good investments soon because Leicester and Saracens in particular need to focus more on squad retention.

Not to much I hope. Personally I think a little cull of at least half a dozern maybe more players at Tigers is due. Bucknall, Waldrom, Grindal, Staunton, Agulla, Alesana, Hamilton, Robinson and maybe Hawkins could all be on their way out. Tad harsh on Agulla and Hawkins but Agulla will miss too much of the season with Argentina and Hawkins is not powerful enough and we need another quality hooker in now and not at the end of next season when Chuter's contract is up. Alesana is off to Japan for the big cash and Waldrom is no doubt after a chunky pay rise which I don't think we should pay. Hamilton is past his best and should be allowed to collect a pension top up in France before heading back home, the others are squad players.

Free up space for a new pacey winger (Miles Benjamin) and a tactically astute full back. A number 8 more akin to our needs (power and work rate). Contract for Mullipola (prop) who has been on an extended trial and got a contract until the end of the season. Good hooker (preferably around 25). Then a 10/12 of significant experience to offer insights on the training pitch as well as a positive influence on the field, not a big name but a savvy one.

"Bathite I meant that Saracens are probably pushing the salary cap to the utmost limit. Bath have more disposable income than the other clubs because the likes of Saints and Leicester are probably spending up to the cap already. Some clubs can't afford to."

How do you know we aren't at the cap as well? You and many others have accused us of breaching the cap before, so what are you talking about?

Unfortunately hiring Moody and McGeechan hasn't worked. Moody is past his prime. Mcgeechan is not being effective.

How do you know that? Have you spoken to Fearns, Mercer, Ovens and the other young players in the squad? Have they told you that Moody has been useless and added nothing to the squad? Have the squad in general told you that he is a negative influence in the team and that his experience and professional attitude is a waste of time? If you define 'not working' by the number of games he has won at Bath then you are right, but thats not what it is all about. Building a great team is so much more than playing 80mins. You talk about Sarries having this amazing care for their players, so you should know what i'm talking about.

McGeechan might not have brought success on the pitch, but he probably helps convince players to join and raises the profile of the club outside of the country. See the recent Adam Jones Q&A on this website for some evidence of that. Would Louw and Donald have come without Moody and Geech, I don't know, but it almost certainly helped. Almost every player that played for him in the Lions openly admits to love working for him.

Bath need to invest wisely and buy smart. Saints,Leicester and Saracens have hugely boosted the profiles of various players. They have been very savvy. The problem is the smart investments are snapped up by the likes of Saints,Saracens and Leicester which keeps them stronger.

So do all the clubs mate, the best at that in recent times is probably Newcastle. Bath have also done it with EPS, Salvi, Tindall, Hape, Catt, Borthwick in recent times.

I love your 'invest wisely and buy smart', you should pass that message on, its great advice! There is always a risk when you get someone in, for every Schalk Britz and Brian Mujati, there is a Will Chambers or that SA prop who just left you, can't remember his name, barely played.

Thats the main problem with the cap for me, it doesn't reward clubs that produce or develop talent, that goes on to the international scene. It means that the likes of Attwood and PDJ at Glos, Ashton at Saints, Barritt and Farrell at Sarries and O'Connor and Cullen at Leicester can't be afforded to beretained at the end of the first contract. That invariably leads to replacements coming in, that might A.be overseas and prevent academy coming through or B.be not up to the standard (Vesty,Hipkiss).

Unfortunately beshocked, its not as simple as you say! Back to the original point, Bath can't compete with Tigers, Saints, Sarries for recruitment, so instead of going for class players like Hodgson, we have to pay loads for Donald. Instead of getting young talent like Kitchener and Vunipola on the cheap, we have to pay loads for Attwood. Do you see my point? We have less going for us comparably, so the very best players go to the best clubs and 'good finds' can go to Tigers and alike because they know they will play in the top comps playing for trophies are likely to ask for a lower salary for this privilege. Tigers have a great reputation for doing this.

Bathite,

There are 12000 folk at Sixways who would tell you that Garvey is the better player.

Ok, fair enough, you guys know best, but it does surprise me, was never a fan of him when he was at Glos. Just thought as a package, Benjamin would be more attractive because of his age.

Bathite

Yes really.

Dont know much about these players.

Hence the question.

Thanks for the answer.

Don't thank me, I was wrong apparently! Worcs fans gave you the answer you needed though!

Saw above cheers.

They both look decent, just wasnt sure on the better.

12000 Worcester fans cant be wrong.

So a fair bit of news from Gloucester and Leicester. Also a little on Northampton and Bath.

Any Saracens, Sale, Newcastle, Wasps etc fans out there with any news updates on players out of contract?

Sale had a huge reshuffle last year, was something near to 20 in, 20 out. So I would imagine the vast majority of their squad is signed up for at least next season.

Sarries need to renew Joubert and Britz (spoken to Bath apparently)
Newcastle won't be doing anything until relegation is confirmed I would imagine
Wasps, no idea, sorry

For Sarries

Brits and Joubert out of contract


Unsure about the following:
Strettle
Tagicakibau
Ratuvou
Wigglesworth
Powell
Maddock

Most of the others definitely are in contract.

You reckon the likes of Tagi, Ratuvou, Powell and Mattock will be ditched in order to free up wage cap space Beshocked? If Ashton is signed along with Tomkins and Strettle is given a new deal those three will be costly. Sacrifice the squad players to make room or will Sarries look to offload Strettle as he is paid more?

Not sure Sam. Maybe rely on the creative accountants.

I bet at least one of them will move anyway. Adam Powell might want to leave because of current lack of game time anyway.

I think it depends what happens with the like of Brits too. Also don't forget the marquee signing rule.

Marquee signing doesn't include current squad and can't be a prem player like Ashton, so it won't free up any more cap to the existing squad, it will only allow 1 outsider to join on a bigger 'one off' contract. Sorry to break the bad news

Bathite that is indeed bad news. Saracens need squad retention.

Though a high profile prop outside the cap would be good.

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2010-11/rugby/story/140449.html

A more detail explaining of the marquee signing and higher salary cap

That is bad news Bathite, I know the local media in Leicestershire were talking about Tigers using Castro as the marquee signing and then freeing up £300k of wage cap to help retain some of the players we already have.

Don't know who we will detail as the marquee player then. Maybe Salvi as technically he is only injury cover for Crane at the minute and so is allowed outside of the cap. Maybe I'll get my wish and an experienced 10/12 will come in, that or a top class hooker would be nice.

Not sure Sam. Maybe rely on the creative accountants

Well I thought the current trick was to pay the foreign players in the currency of their home countries and use the conversion rates to make savings on the face of the accounts. Which would be artistic but legal. Can't see that continuing to work if you keep signing English players though.

[quote="formerly known as Sam"]That is bad news Bathite, I know the local media in Leicestershire were talking about Tigers using Castro as the marquee signing and then freeing up £300k of wage cap to help retain some of the players we already have.

quote]

I had thought thats what the majority of the clubs would do, use it to increase the squad depth. So if that isnt the case, presumably there will be quite a few 'big name' players appearing in the premiership?

For Quins I can only tell you who's resigned, which is nearly everyone in the first team. Off the top off my head the only ones with question marks in the squad are:

Ollie Smith (long term injured)
Sam Smith
Seb Stegmann
Ross Chisholm
Will Skinner

Three of those have come through the academy to varying extents so I don't know if they have contracts from that.

Otherwise the only purchase i'd like to see us make would be Slater from Tigers, he's the kind of big powerful lock we need in the second row for when Kohn's injured and he seems to have some impressive hands on him too.

A beast of a prop aged at about 27-29would be nice but they don't grow on trees...

Yeah i think we'll wait to see what the score is...but reality is that we expect relegation so the likes of Hudson, Murray, Gopperth etc etc will be available.

But i wouldnt expect any of the youngsters / homegrown players to go...think the new regime would be looking to build around them.....

A beast of a prop aged at about 27-29would be nice but they don't grow on trees...

Yappy i imagine Ewan Murray will be free in the summer....awesome TH...

Some Tigers news.......
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/story-14984722-detail/story.html?

Skivington to Irish (Hope Bath are looking at him as well, would be an ideal signing)
Tuilagi to Japan

Not renewed / released
Staunton
Grindal
Green
Bucknall
Agulla

Retired
White

Signing up
Benjamin

Green could still be offered a deal. I imagine that will depend on what he shows between now and the end of the season as he's had a long term injury. Robinson, Grindal, Bucknall and Staunton gone is making room in the cap where we need it. Tuilagi and Agulla are losses but will open up lots of free cap and the writing has been on the wall for Skivs for a while now. Slater and Kitchener are catching him and he is not challenging Deacon or Parling.

Don't see any losses to your squad to be honest mate. Tuilagi is a good player, but doesn't concentrate for the whole 80 and isn't a great defender in my opinion. A man his size should have stopped Trimble at least once last weekend.

Staunton is awful, guess that allows Ford to step up to #2 fly half, with 36 covering.

You heard anything about who your marquee signing might be?

All a bit quiet on the transfer front. Rumours that we are looking at Benjamin, Mullan (who approached last time he was out of contract) and Delve. A new deal for Mullipola is also likely (he's like a young Samoan Castro) as he only has a deal to the end of the season.

Benjamin seems certain, Delve is likely to come only if Waldrom leaves (a trade I'd accept) and Mullan looks a tad unlikely as with Ayerza, Stanko, Cole, Castro, Brookes and Mullipola we have propping options. Even with Ayerza's international call ups at the start of the season we shouldn't be that short, unless they intend to sell off Stanko (Bath were interested a couple of years ago but I doubt they are now). If Staunton is off and there's still no news on Allen and Twelvetrees confirming their deals I think an experienced10/12 might be coming (I hope so). It might mean thanking Allen then letting him go but Twelvetrees and Ford need an experienced mentor (Mauger style) and Flood could do with another playmaker in the big games. It'll be that or an international hooker.

Oh and there was the dated rumour of the Ozzie utility man Adam Ashley-Cooper coming but I don't see that happening with all the money in Japan and France. Tigers have no big money backer they are a business and so whilst wealthy have very real limitations when it comes to big salaries.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

A beast of a prop aged at about 27-29would be nice but they don't grow on trees...

Yappy i imagine Ewan Murray will be free in the summer....awesome TH...

Difficulty with Euan Murray is that he doesn't play on Sundays.

No chance that AAC will be coming, just signed a new contract with NSW and with the Lions tour coming up, none of the players want to miss out on that. Also, the majority of the Oz team is very young, especially the backs, so doubt they would jeopardise international career at such a young age. Only one person to mind has done that and it was Luke McAllister at Sale.

I do hope that Bath are looking at Mullan, we could do with another LH, with Flatman retiring. Beech and Catt are great youngsters, but more mobile than scrummagers, so Mullan would add some bulk. We were only interested in Stanko because his contract was up, but he resigned with you, so not available anymore anyways.

Think that the NZ and SA team are much more likely to feature in the AP. SA because they count as Kolpak and not the 3 'foreigns' in match day squads and because they seem to make the transfer the easiest, used to playing the physical game I guess.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Morne Steyn coming over, Du Preez and Fourie already gone to Japan and with Lambie, Ebersohn and Jantjes coming through at 10, Morne might fancy a fresh start.

Could see De Villiers and Habana also being tempted.

For the Kiwis, I think Woodcock, Mealamu, Williams, Carter might fancy an overseas contract. Don't think McCaw ever will, too much of a homebody, loves his country so bloody much, really respect him for it.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers have no big money backer they are a business and so whilst wealthy have very real limitations when it comes to big salaries.

Does it matter if your owner is minted or not? We all spend to the same cap and the top 5/6 clubs are at the max. Tigers have the advantage of history, prestige, success, huge crowds, HC rugby all at their disposal to attract players as well. That just about evens out having to live in Leicester!!!

Bathite, the top 5/6 clubs may be equal, but some are more equal than others!! There is a lot of farms being bought and definitely creative accounting by some!

Does it matter if your owner is minted or not?

In terms of marquee signing it does, that player is outside the cap so if a big name e.g. Carter decided he was coming over it would be a straight fight of who has the biggest wallet. We have a few thousand owners anyway, the shares were all bought up by fans and the board run the club on their behalf.

HongKongCherry wrote:Bathite, the top 5/6 clubs may be equal, but some are more equal than others!! There is a lot of farms being bought and definitely creative accounting by some!

True, Restaurants, Rand, Farms, heard it all before, think all are guilty of it. Even Glos have their ways! Surprising how many houses the 'club own' and can offer to players to rent, probably at a reasonable rent I would imagine......ssssh, don't tell anyone.

In regards to the marquee signing, that still has an upper limit as well though I think, so again, not an open auction for the highest bidder, although only a few clubs could afford the max 300k extra on top of the club without jeopardising their future

We were only interested in Stanko because his contract was up, but he resigned with you, so not available anymore anyways.

He might be if Mullan was to sign. May release him early from his contract in order that he could sign for somebody else in a similar way we did with Danny Hipkiss.

That just about evens out having to live in Leicester

Pfft as if they bother actually living in Leicester. Leicester is a dump where as Leicestershire is full of beautiful countryside and nice towns like Oadby (where the training ground is) and Market Harborough (where Castro's second restaurant is). No one from Leicester who has any sense lives in Leicester they live in the shire.

haha! was only a joke mate, don't see the man u players living in manchester either, its alderly edge

Good point about early releases, always forget about those, pretty rare, but does happen to help out both parties, Hipkiss, Tait, Butch James etc.