Scotland NEED a good six nations.

What a shame Sir Visser of Tim isn't quite jock qualified yet.

Anyway, Scotland haven't won a tournament since 1999 and they have been consistently poor since. If I was Andy Robinson I would pick nearly the entire Edinburgh team with any other stand out players from Glasgow and other clubs. Edinburgh are having a great run in the Heineken cup and keeping as much of that in the national side will be needed to give any hope to Scotland. Much like when the Ospreys beat England at Twickenham in 2008. Gatland had not been around long enough to gel his squad and he took one of the biggest gambles that international rugby has ever seen, but it paid off.

Scotland have a pretty good record against England at home and had that great win out in Ireland last season, but they never play well against France and have a terrible record against Wales as of late.

If Scotland keep the backbone of Edinburgh and learn to see tight games out I can see them at least getting a top 3 spot and a big scalp in the Six Nations. It will help to redeem a poor world cup.

flopspreys wrote:What a shame Sir Visser of Tim isn't quite jock qualified yet.

Anyway, Scotland haven't won a tournament since 1999 and they have been consistently poor since. If I was Andy Robinson I would pick nearly the entire Edinburgh team with any other stand out players from Glasgow and other clubs. Edinburgh are having a great run in the Heineken cup and keeping as much of that in the national side will be needed to give any hope to Scotland. Much like when the Ospreys beat England at Twickenham in 2008. Gatland had not been around long enough to gel his squad and he took one of the biggest gambles that international rugby has ever seen, but it paid off.

Scotland have a pretty good record against England at home and had that great win out in Ireland last season, but they never play well against France and have a terrible record against Wales as of late.

If Scotland keep the backbone of Edinburgh and learn to see tight games out I can see them at least getting a top 3 spot and a big scalp in the Six Nations. It will help to redeem a poor world cup.

You're not going to see anything like that from Andy Robinson. I don't think we should see it either. Glasgow contribute a lot of key players to Scotland. Gray, Kellock, Barclay, Cusiter, Rory Lamont, Hogg, Jackson, Weir and sadly Morrison.

I genuinly think we should see the bulk of the Edinburgh backline with probably Sean Lamont at 12, Matt Scott's ommission from the team could be a costly mistake Robinson has made. Key players are also chosen from other clubs, Euan Murray who is a better option at tight head than Geoff Cross, however Cross was awesome against LI, he really gave Corbisero a torrid time in the scrum and got through a mountain of work in the loose.

One of Scotland's most important players is Kelly Brown who was widely tipped to captain the Squad by the bulk of the Scottish posters on here, but he now faces a race to be fit with the captaincy most likley falling to Ross Ford by default. Although I would not be surprised if Greig Laidlaw is now being considered for the captaincy. He will almost certainly be starting the game at 10 on the back of his performance against LI.

As for the idea in the OP, i think it's a bad one. Edinburgh do play a fantastic type of rugby but I'm not sure how it would translate to international test matches. All I want if for Robinson to throw the shackles off and pick players who rely more on guile, pace, vision and flair instead of lumbering brutes like Morrison or Territory hounds like Parks.

We have players that play a great brand of attacking rugby in broken and open play with fantastic ball retention. It worked in the HC for Edinburgh, lets see if we can do the same in the 6N!

If we don't have a decent 6 N and play some good rugby then robbo has to go.

We have a good pack able to compete with any. the issue is the backs - there is talent and potential but how many rookies will robbo dare play?

flopspreys wrote:Anyway, Scotland haven't won a tournament since 1999 and they have been consistently poor since.

Not quite - in Hadden's first season we defeated England, France and Italy in the same tournament, finishing 3rd. A pretty decent performance. Hadden built a decent pack to give him credit, sadly he never built on those performances and the platform.

It's not a question of "building the team around Edinburgh". Adopting the Edinburgh style may of play well be an option but it would be a mistake not to pick Murray, Hamilton, Gray, Brown/Strokosch and the Lamonts to name a few.

I personally do hope that we look to play an offloading game and use Blair and Laidlaw to run the game from 9/10. For me that maximises our chances. Where we can improve on Edinburgh is by adding a genuinely aggressive set piece, but using Murray, Hamilton and Gray, and also by adding the Lamonts as ball carrying options in the backs (effectively doing the job that Laidlaw employs Visser to do).

On form Max Evans would be a better version of Lee Jones (at the moment), but I've not heard good things from Castres and Jones was very good indeed on Sunday.

I think we'll see AR's most "radical" squad to date. But not radical by anyone else's standards.

We should see 4 material changes: Denton at 8, SLamont at 12, Laidlaw at 10, RLamont at 15. The pack is otherwise cemented and we don't actually have any problems there (apart from now perhaps Brown) - wings, OC & SH are much of a muchness and need to build around the other 3 back positions for the moment (10 & 12 have been our weakness for a while now, and 15 is now "vacant" after Paterson's retirement).

But I agree with OP. Scotland NEED a good 6 nations. I think Brian Moore said somewhere that Scotland should be looking for 3 wins minimum given their fixture list. I would hasten to agree.

I would say that 3 wins hinges on them beating England in Murrayfield, but because of Scotland's tendency to consistently lose matches the opposing team had no right to be in (though Scotland also do this to other teams of late) England is just the first step. I'd say that Cardiff and Italy are then our next best opportunities. You never know with France, but because it's later on in the fixture list they're likely to be in some sort of momentum by then.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

On form Max Evans would be a better version of Lee Jones (at the moment), but I've not heard good things from Castres and Jones was very good indeed on Sunday.

Evans hasnt impressed at castres, and even so, while less noticeable around the pitch, I think Jones has got a far better rugby brain than "ill just try to beat them all myself" evans.

I feel that this six nations is all about Andy Robinson's choices. If he chooses to be conservative again I can only see us winning one game tops. If he goes all out and just lets the form players have the say then I think we're in for a good tournament.

First example, he should let Laidlaw play 10 against England. I have a horrible feeling he'll pick Parks, but Laidlaw would be a step forward. He should avoid playing Morrison if possible and have Lee Jones on the wing with Evans on the other (only because we are severely lacking in choice, R Lamont's form has been too flakey/injury prone). Fullback I think take a chance with Hogg, with the exception of the last couple of games he's been good at fullback, its a shame lineen has plonked him at 13, seems daft and counterproductive. 12, again, unfortunately lacking in choice, but if S Lamont improves his distribution he could be good here, Matt Scott would be good but he's not available. Anyone know much about Harry Leonard in this position? I don't want to see the name Morrison on the team sheet, he really is dire, and has absolutely shocking form. Now the even trickier position. Fly-half. Although not so tricky anymore as I really do think Laidlaw is an excellent temporary fix for this problem until someone really sets the position alight in Scottish rugby. Again Parks, I don't want to see him anywhere near the team but knowing Robinson, Parks will be in the 22 playing against England and Weir will be on the bench. Distressing thought but unfortunately highly likely!

Pack is pretty set, although with Brown injured we're in a bit of a pickle there, but otherwise we have a decent enough set of forwards.

I think now it is less about the players, its more about which ones are chosen, because we finally have a decent few competing (although it is still only slight improvements). If Robinson chooses to ignore this, then it will be the beginning of the end for him, which is a shame because he's otherwise a very good coach.

It's a shame we're talking about "scalps" with Scotland, but in reality I think their recent results suggest that they are a poor team capable of taking a big scalp, albeit mainly at home (beating England at Murrayfield, winning the last game at Croke Park, beating Australia and South Africa at home but consistent 5th placed finishes in the 6 Nations and a pool stage exit at the World Cup).

With Glasgow going well in the Rabo (and finishing second in their HC pool) and Edinburgh taking their pool in the Heineken, Scotland fans have a right to be a bit more optimistic going into this tournament, and I would agree with the sentiments of the OP, they need a big Six Nations to really nail home the good work of their club sides. Another 5th placed finish would be far from acceptable.

Fly-half. Although not so tricky anymore as I really do think Laidlaw is an excellent temporary fix for this problem until someone really sets the position alight in Scottish rugby.

Having seen how he played yesterday I think he can set it alight

When will visser be eligible to play for Scotland?

this summer

Thanks TJ.
It's a shame we can't see such a talented player at international level yet.

Haha I was about to pop my 606v2 cherry and write a post about this.. but you beat me to it.

I personally think Andy Robinson should take a note from Robbie Deans book. The Queensland Reds won the super 15's last year and he based a large chunk of his tri nations/world cup squad around reds player's and I think it was a smart move. It did have its downers though, as Quade had a terrible world cup but Samo and Iaone made a huge impact, especially in the tri nations. Yet they still had key players like Pocock and O'connor who play for other super 15 teams.

In Scotland's case, I think he really should consider handing inform Edinburgh players opportunities. However, if AR puts out an Edinburgh based backline and has them running predictable lines and laidlaw playing a kicking game for territory like Parks, then it won't mean jack! Deans brought in lots of reds players and they played for Australia like they did for the reds. Now when I watch Edinburgh play I frequently think "Wow! I feel like i'm watching a super 15's game!" I nevvver feel that way when I watch Scotland play. Basically as simply as I can describe it, Scotland's usual game plan does not match the way Edinburgh play rugby. Therefore, I think certain elements of Scotland's game plan would have to change if AR wants to get the most out of his in form Edinburgh players. The obvious position is 10. So personally, I think we have a squad that is capable of swapping from a conservative gameplan, ie DP kicking for territory.. to a team with more flair via Laidlaw, which would be great!

bsando

Scotladn have not had the players to play a more expansive game in the last few years. Using these Edinburgh backs we now have.
with such a small pool of players I believe it needs to be more pick the best players then plan the game to suit them not pick the game plan then the payers to suit

alto we do have the two young fly halfs and weir is a more kicking FH than Laidlaw

a few weeks ago i was calling for Weir to play - Now I have changed my mind and want laidlaw

The injury toll: Scottish injury list pre-6Ns

John Beattie Sr. is of similar view re style of play: JB blog

I actually think this is make or break for AR

After the shocking selection at the world cup which was one of the main reasons we flopped, he is (IMO) on very thin ice

We have seen for years that Parks and Morrison make our backline like a one legged hop shotch finialist from 1963 who discovered painting smarties white with tip ex brings about an aversion to running into tackles - yet he still selects them, even after S lamont had played 100 times better

He is so keen on selecting his favourites, he ignores form players for people who are injured

He has no plan B and slowly shuffling around the park, giving to a prop to fall beside the ruck is a poor plan A

He drops his in form captain in one of the most important matches in the World Cup

His record is worst than haddens!

However much we think he has 'turned a corner' the results do not show that, as we have battled for last place every year in recent history - that is what counts and that is what we should judge him on -not a warm fuzzy feeling that he is positive and we are close

TJ wrote:bsando

Scotladn have not had the players to play a more expansive game in the last few years. Using these Edinburgh backs we now have.
with such a small pool of players I believe it needs to be more pick the best players then plan the game to suit them not pick the game plan then the payers to suit

alto we do have the two young fly halfs and weir is a more kicking FH than Laidlaw

a few weeks ago i was calling for Weir to play - Now I have changed my mind and want laidlaw

Yeah that's pretty much what AR has being doing the last few years, picking the players who perform best and centering a game plan around them, a game plan that has not changed too much. I loved it at first because Scotland were a mess after Hadden and needed a reality check which AR provided. However, now I think it's too predictable and it leaves no plan B when we begin to trail. Why not have a game plan centered around certain players for kicking drop goals/territory and a game plan for certain players for a fast expansive style? Now we DO have the players to play expansively and I actually think we always have. Look at Edinburgh, Ford was running around and making tackles like a kid who'd eaten 100 blue smarties.. yet when he plays for Scotland i think he looks quite stagnant at times. Bradley is getting the most out of his players and I think AR needs to do the same.

With Ford now confirmed as Captain,. hopefully he will eat the blue smarties again

What Scotland have done well under AR:

Kept possession OR territory (I'm not afraid of knock ons now, as I was under Hadden's reign)
Kicked better DGs
Defended like soldiers in structured play
Structured attacks into the 22 effectively

What they haven't done well at all:

Have not adapted their set moves or game plan, at all. This is partly down to never changing the squad.
Defended like headless chickens in broken field or second phase play
Converted pressure into tries


I really don't think we should be calling for a radically new team, but I do advocate enough steps in the right direction every time it is suitable. Danielli is in the squad along with Parks & Morrison because these Scotland players have experience, and even if they don't set the heather alight, you can also bank on them not to do anything too ridiculous or, for want of a better word, newbie-ish. Even Desperate Dan doesn't have terrible games in a Scotland game anymore .. just uninspiring ones at times. (Remember he played almost all of the England game, which we arguably should have won).

How many changes for Murrayfield should we make that doesn't rock the boat so much it'll be two entirely new squads playing one another? Like I've said, put S Lamont at 12 because at least he makes ground. Because he can cover the wings you can stick Morrison on the bench (fight for your starting place, Jim). You put Laidlaw at 10 - that's the major change. You put Denton at 8. And because he has played for Scotland before, you need to put R Lamont at fullback ... who also covers wing, so I guess Hogg on the bench along with Parks (although I wouldn't mind seeing Weir there ... in a way you have to put Parks there just in case).

1 Jacobsen
2 Ford
3 Murray
4 Hamilton
5 Gray
6 Strokosch
7 Barclay
8 Denton
9 Blair
10 Laidlaw
11 Jones
12 S Lamont
13 De Luca
14 Evans
15 R Lamont

16 Cross
17 Lawson
18 Kellock
19 Vernon
20 Parks
21 Morrison / Ansbro
22 Hogg

Nobody else a bit worried that we've only got 1 out and out fullback in the squad? Couldn't we have put Cuthbert in the squad again?

Cuthbert can't get in the Bath side and when he has played this season he's been awful. The only worse option at fullback is Danielli.

If you wanted to pick a reserve fullback to R Lamont and S Hogg the options based on performance are Jim Thompson and Hugo Southwell. If Robinson picked Southwell a fair few on here would simulaneously explode. Thompson was ok against LI on Sunday and has been part of Robinson's squads before so I suspect he's next in line after Hogg and Lamont.

KickAndChase wrote:I really don't think we should be calling for a radically new team, but I do advocate enough steps in the right direction every time it is suitable. Danielli is in the squad along with Parks & Morrison because these Scotland players have experience, and even if they don't set the heather alight, you can also bank on them not to do anything too ridiculous or, for want of a better word, newbie-ish. Even Desperate Dan doesn't have terrible games in a Scotland game anymore .. just uninspiring ones at times. (Remember he played almost all of the England game, which we arguably should have won).

Nobody else a bit worried that we've only got 1 out and out fullback in the squad? Couldn't we have put Cuthbert in the squad again?

And which we could have won by keeping ball in hand an launching attacks at the England line - instead Desparate went for the up&under 50/50 option that in the end gifted possession back to England right at the very time we needed the ball

Out&out fullbacks in the squad = Ramont and Hogg?

1 Jacobsen
2 Ford
3 Murray
4 Hamilton
5 Gray
6 Strokosch
7Barclay Rennie
8 Denton
9 Blair
10 Laidlaw
11 Jones Ansbro
12 S Lamont (would prefer Scott, but there's no way that's happening now)
13 De Luca
14 Evans
15 R LamontHogg

16 Cross
17 Lawson
18 Kellock
19 Vernon Barclay
20 Parks Cusiter
21 Morrison Weir
22 Hogg Ramont

England v Scotland in Murryfield is always a tough game, especialy for England.

So if Scotland beat England at murryfield, then Scotland will take alot of heart out of the game, go into the rest of the tournament with their head held high.

So in my opinion, it all depends on the opening game.