The Scottish International Rugby Thread

by R!skysports Fri 7 Feb - 11:45

As a die hard Scotland rugby supporter, over the years I have been dragged through the mill. Poor selections, poor coaches and poor players.

Through thick and thin I have bleed blue, but is it time to say, enough is enough.

The incompetence and down right corruption* at the sru means I have been supporting a system and structure that, is to be frank, not deserving of my support.

When is it time to say, enough is enough. You shall not take my support for granted, and I will not support that was of space that is the sru.

Can we evoke change and move away from the old blazers who are destroying our game

Should we stop watching our team who currently make a fool of themselves

I am getting close to saying yes. I am almost at the point I do not care about our team And will sod off to go shopping this weekend

Our continued passion means our support ratifies the sru. Is it time to go on strike to show our displeasure, even if that means we miss out of watching our passion.

Can we affect the outcome

Your a dispirited and depressed Scotsman

*no proof of real corruption, but certainly an ability to corrupt the supporter

BUT I SUPPORT SCOTLAND TO THE END - GO SCOTLAND

(edited text, as the super duper mix tape of threads needed a most positive intro :-)

by SecretFly Fri 7 Feb - 11:56

When the earth burns up.

Wait for Vern... see what he might do.

by Scratch Fri 7 Feb - 13:09

Yeah Vern will turn it round.

Never give up, distinctly un Scotsmanlike to do so. And Robbo and Johnson don't help your effort.

Remember all teams go through sh#te….look at Wales, we might be the 6 Nations Champions (x4) and the best side in Europe (apart from England obviously) in recent years but god we were awful for a long time. If Ireland can do it anyone can.

Watch this, i did the other day, Scotland will be back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03slvkg

by tigertattie Fri 7 Feb - 20:03

I'll always support us

doesn't mean I'll enjoy it

Also doesn't mean I won't moan about the dross

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 7 Feb - 20:08

You can, of course, walk away whenever you should choose - that is your right (rather like the 1707 Union!). Perhaps however it is simply time to accept that the current set-up in Scotland is only going to produce mediocre talent and that our current position is the best that can be realistically expected

by Nematode Fri 7 Feb - 20:15

I always dual support Ireland-Scotland, mainly for my blood pressure.

I'll never give up on Scotland but when we put in dismal performances where the players look like they'd rather just stop, then why should I support them? I've got limited time and I'd rather watch 80mins of competitive rugby, say Ireland vs Wales, than Ford and co.'s utter shambles of a performance.

The sad thing these days is that there doesn't look to be that feeling of pride when players play for Scotland. I'm sure Telfer wouldn't have stood for the lousy performances we've seen.

In my last part of my winding rant, if I was the coach I'd be saying a performance lacking intent/desire would be a year ban. I'm thinking Low and Wilson from the weekend, their tackling was hopeless. (re Ford, he shouldn't have been picked so I wouldn't ban him - he reached his current potential. Just wouldn't play him).

I'm sure if you played Dickinson, MacArthur, Cross, J Gray, Gilchrist, Eddie/Harley, Grant/Fusaro, Barclay/Hogg, Cusiter, Tonks, Lamont, Scott, Dunbar, Fife, Hogg - they would all put their all in - the forwards esp. would be proud to play for Scotland and everyone would give their all, knowing they've had to work to get there. The result possibly wouldn't be great, who knows, but I'd rather see intent and desire than mediocre performances.

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 7 Feb - 20:21

For my sins of greed with the NZ team we are given the Black Caps cricket team. I also support Scotland and must admit I sometimes think support is not so much for Scotland but for Glenmoragie. I should be a shareholder the amount I get through watching Scotland play. At least it numbs the pain.

However, amazingly the Black Caps are going through a purple patch after losing to every test side. My access to cricket games is limited to internet streaming but deep down I know I don't make the effort to watch the games like I do with my beloved ABs team. For that reason, I don't feel a part of NZ's recent successes. I abandoned them and now can't ride the coat-tails of their recent successes. I would feel dirty or, even worse, cheapening their exploits. The thing is when you give up on a team, you give up on that team for life. Nobody likes a fairweather supporter.

I won't judge you if you leave. But I will if you come back. Very Happy

by GloriousEmpire Fri 7 Feb - 20:28

Wait for Scottish independence! Thus far I believe Scottish rugby has been suppressed by an evil plot originating at Westminster itself.

Word has it, that Alex Salmond's plan is to achieve independence and then declare a 0% corporate tax on banking (understanding that the tax revenue is not important, but the wealth generation is); which should trigger an enormous exodus of "Britain's" financial service's industry to the more pleasant, but conveniently nearby and homogenous surroundings of Edinburgh. Financial services, as the backbone of Britain's economy, will turn Scotland into a new Switzerland, and introduce a massive economic crisis for England. Scotland will then retain the pound, forcing England into the Euro.

From then, Salmond will flood the coffers of Scottish sporting endeavours in order to swell patriotism. Scottish clubs will become the strongest in Europe and the national team will be competing with the SANZAR unions for the world #1 ranking.

Have faith! Redemption is coming!

by Guest Fri 7 Feb - 20:29

Never ever give up, you won't forgive yourself when the tide turns Smile

Kia kaha

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 7 Feb - 20:31

Ka pai ebop. Kia kaha.

by fa0019 Fri 7 Feb - 20:43

This is what happens when you get 3-4 world class players which come together at the same time... not only does it raise morale with great victories and occasional silverware it also raises our expectations and makes the makes the downturn feel that much worse once they retire.

Growing up with the Scotland team of the 80s and 90s was easy... easy wins, competitive losses against all, we were so good we almost beat one of the greatest AB teams of all time in NZ.

We relied too much on individual talent and other unions being in a mess. Now that some have got their house in order and our talent pool has not reproduced the players of the past reality hits home.

However

The one thing that upsets me is that 20 years ago you NEVER, NEVER saw a scotland team drop their heads, never saw them simply give up.... but this is endemic in the scotland game today. You see it all the time "oh woe is me woe is me, they've scored a try, here comes another inevitable smashing".
To be honest the match crowd also has a lot to do with this too... whenever Scotland go behind early you here a definitive groan, a "not this again", the lack of faith is dire (albeit perhaps understandable given the last 15 years of poor results).

I think the entire set up, game and players need to stop wetting their pants and start acting like Scotsman. Start acting like rugby players, not cry babies.

When did you see John Jeffries, David Sole, Kenny Milne etc take a backwards step??? Jim Telfer had that impact on people.

I'm not mistaking aggression Hamilton style for the players above. They were aggressive yet channelled and the intensity was so high. Hamilton whilst talented is simply a bully and gets bested by players beneath him as he continually acts like a chump.

These days watching Scotland rugby players is as intense as washing the dishes.

Here in SA if players complained about the above like they do in Scotland they would get a beasting.... its seems at the moment the camp and the 2 clubs resembles an AA meeting, full of crying grown ups giving each other hugs. If you asked for a hug from a boer you'd probably get a closed fisted slap.

Harsh but I think the best method to improve these players would be to send them to Kamp Staaldraad.

The quality of the players is not bad. Its half decent, but the attitude of all involved. Its terrible, its a disease and it spreads and ruins any quality we can produce.

by Allty Fri 7 Feb - 20:55

Stay strong

Your revival should start when Johnson and Humph are out of the equation.

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 7 Feb - 20:56

Am I to believe you have recently bought a sniper rifle?

by Guest Fri 7 Feb - 21:04

I love how as the phoney war that was the first weekend of 6N action continues until tomorrow, the top topics of this years 6 nations have been:

(a) Gatland
(b) Scotland being sh**e

Coming in under the radar is now Wales v Ireland as it gets closer and closer

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sat 8 Feb - 3:34

I had thoughts like this 2 years ago after the DP fiasco with Mrs Robinson. I have been back (to the Theatre of Nightmares) since but after last Sunday and the subsequent mess in selection /retention of dross gave up my tickets and will now watch between my fingers at the car crash that will ensue tomorrow. Cowardly I know. I still intend to go and watch a proper rugby team on Sunday at Scotstoun - a proportion of whom should be turning out for Scotland.

by R!skysports Sat 8 Feb - 4:52

I will be watching and will be supporting (and I expect always will), but they are trampling on my heart, and a man can only take so much punishment, before he becomes cold

Come on Scotland - show us all that SJ is actually a genius and romp home to awin (swinging to delusional now lol)

by Scratch Sat 8 Feb - 6:02

Just seen the pitch….will favor sctos i think

by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 8 Feb - 6:35

It is never time to stop supporting the country of your birth or upbringing if you moved at an early age ( well unless you come from a principality, then it is understandable).

I will never stop supporting the country of my birth, I owe it to much, it raised me, educated me, gave me the great game we all play/played ( well I have doubts over one or two posters), has allowed me to make a good living without fear that if things go wrong, my family would be left unsupported. Allowed me the freedom to call ar$es like Cameron ar$eholes publically without fear of penalty, allowed me to choose if I joined the military. It has supported freedom and human rights across the world. Only a small proportion of this worlds residents have had the rights and privileges this country has given me.

People that come to this country and then continually run it down, criticising everything they can for the sake of criticism really wind me up. I would deport them all to China and see how they get on there. I am not as forgiving as this wonderful country. If you don't like it pi$$ off somewhere else and see how they treat you.

by ChequeredJersey Sat 8 Feb - 6:36

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:It is never time to stop supporting the country of your birth or upbringing if you moved at an early age ( well unless you come from a principality, then it is understandable).

I will never stop supporting the country of my birth, I owe it to much, it raised me, educated me, gave me the great game we all play/played ( well I have doubts over one or two posters), has allowed me to make a good living without fear that if things go wrong, my family would be left unsupported. Allowed me the freedom to call ar$es like Cameron ar$eholes publically without fear of penalty, allowed me to choose if I joined the military. It has supported freedom and human rights across the world. Only a small proportion of this worlds residents have had the rights and privileges this country has given me.

People that come to this country and then continually run it down, criticising everything they can for the sake of criticism really wind me up. I would deport them all to China and see how they get on there. I am not as forgiving as this wonderful country. If you don't like it pi$$ off somewhere else and see how they treat you.

Hear, hear

by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 8 Feb - 6:37

Sorry for the rant.

by nganboy Sat 8 Feb - 17:45

Why give China your left overs? Doesn't it have enough people?

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sat 8 Feb - 18:11

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:It is never time to stop supporting the country of your birth or upbringing if you moved at an early age ( well unless you come from a principality, then it is understandable).

I will never stop supporting the country of my birth, I owe it to much, it raised me, educated me, gave me the great game we all play/played ( well I have doubts over one or two posters), has allowed me to make a good living without fear that if things go wrong, my family would be left unsupported. Allowed me the freedom to call ar$es like Cameron ar$eholes publically without fear of penalty, allowed me to choose if I joined the military. It has supported freedom and human rights across the world. Only a small proportion of this worlds residents have had the rights and privileges this country has given me.

People that come to this country and then continually run it down, criticising everything they can for the sake of criticism really wind me up. I would deport them all to China and see how they get on there. I am not as forgiving as this wonderful country. If you don't like it pi$$ off somewhere else and see how they treat you.

Don't think that is why Risky asked this tbh - he was kind of focusing on how dire Scotland are at rugby and how schieze the SRU and not making a political statement re the state of the country - it is a rugby blog as one of our Mods keeps warning us if we stray into political territory !

by TJ Sat 8 Feb - 18:35

Never. If its in your heart yo cannot change it. I am a Scotland adn Edinburgh supporter. thats whats in my heart. Having been born in the west country down south it would be a lot easier to support bath and England - but its not in my heart to do so.

You cannot change your allegiances 'cos it comes from the heart.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 8 Feb - 19:10

Riskysports wrote:As a die hard Scotland rugby supporter, over the years I have been dragged through the mill. Poor selections, poor coaches and poor players.

Through thick and thin I have bleed blue, but is it time to say, enough is enough.

Never is when.

Trust me as a die hard Welsh fan who went through back end of 80s and all the 90s I still supported them and always will.

by Shifty Sat 8 Feb - 19:54

Riskysports wrote:As a die hard Scotland rugby supporter, over the years I have been dragged through the mill. Poor selections, poor coaches and poor players.

Through thick and thin I have bleed blue, but is it time to say, enough is enough.

The incompetence and down right corruption* at the sru means I have been supporting a system and structure that, is to be frank, not deserving of my support.

When is it time to say, enough is enough. You shall not take my support for granted, and I will not support that was of space that is the sru.

Can we evoke change and move away from the old blazers who are destroying our game

Should we stop watching our team who currently make a fool of themselves

I am getting close to saying yes. I am almost at the point I do not care about our team And will sod off to go shopping this weekend

Our continued passion means our support ratifies the sru. Is it time to go on strike to show our displeasure, even if that means we miss out of watching our passion.

Can we affect the outcome

Your a dispirited and depressed Scotsman

*no proof of real corruption, but certainly an ability to corrupt the supporters

I'm amazed to read this from you to be honest, your normally pretty optimistic.
You'll never stop being Scottish, and as long as you continue to enjoy rugby then watch and hope for the best, erm just with Scotland expect the worst.... Hug

Go and watch Glasgow, their a good team and always beat the Ospreys! Whistle

by Portnoy's Complaint Sat 8 Feb - 20:05

When is it time to stop supporting Scotland?

Never. I'm sure that we'll all be avid Scots whilst watching your curling girls cleaning up on the ice.

But the SFU made a big mistake going regional - and in the wrong areas. Time for a divisional 4Ns and to make Scotland, Italy, Georgia and Russia feature in D2.

by TJ Sat 8 Feb - 20:18

Portnoy - you realy have no idea do you? T4eh two pro teams are in the biggest population areas. No one supported a borders team whan it was set up. No interest in rugby in the north.

Scotland came 3rd last year - would you have relegated France who came last?

by Yoda Sat 8 Feb - 20:41

Never give up, remember the game we love is generally run by old boys in blazers but its you, the fans, players of all ability and the coaches that really define the ethos and principles. Every nation has had its problems with the management but they will move on and the fans will still be there. When you experience the horrible feelings of sport it makes the good times even sweeter. Hang in there I'm sure Scotland will give a performance to be proud of today.

by **Notch** Sat 8 Feb - 21:14

Never say never!

by TJ Sat 8 Feb - 22:37

Scratch wrote:Just seen the pitch….will favor sctos i think

Nope - will favour the english. the scots want to play a fast paced offloading and rucking game. A soft pitch does not help at all.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun 9 Feb - 11:29

Stating the obvious I know but comments from the greater rugby brethren !

by tigertattie Sun 9 Feb - 11:32

He's a waste of oxygen. Ruining Scottish rugby like the previous wallaby five knuckle shuffle Williams

by Nematode Sun 9 Feb - 11:34

+1.

Hard to think this Scotland team has players that were flying high at the top of the Rabo last year.

by **Pal Joey** Sun 9 Feb - 13:33

I feel sorry for all Scotland fans.
To be honest, I'd never heard of the guy. How did he make his way into the national coaching setup?
The SRU must be comprised of all day suckers...

You deserve a better coach, yes. You also need about half a doz. proper players. Honestly, there was no way I was going to stay up to watch the match (it started 3:30am) given the brand of rugby that was going to be on offer. Ireland - Wales was a treat to watch on the other hand.

After watching the replay - England did enough in trying conditions (maybe they still left 15 points out on the field) but Scotland just seem to be going backwards at the moment. Conditions didn't make it easy for their style of play either.

Sure, blame a "nobody coach"... but the players need to up their game even more. They are dreadful! It's all too depressing to watch for me.
Let's hope Vern can add a spark and set things in a better direction for your team.

Those shots of SJ in the box were a big turn off too. What was he saying I wonder...?
Then giving the headsets are hard time. Clueless and a bully, yeah?

by Guest Sun 9 Feb - 17:06

Thought I recognised the name, he was the joker that spied on the ABs and then took the mick in the press conference. Bit of a dude.

by **Biltong** Sun 9 Feb - 17:37

You need to have some sympathy for who ever coaches Scotland, he has a pool of exactly two pro squads to select his players from, then add injuries to the mix and there is not a whole lot left.

I wonder who will make a significant difference and I doubt even Graham Henry can make such a big difference.

The coach is not the one making the unforced errors, he isn't the one that is ill disciplined (Read Hamilton)

Not sure what everyone expects Scotland to do here, they show commitment and having a great game every now and then in a professional era where everyone else has more depth and pro teams is hard.

by **George Carlin** Sun 9 Feb - 17:51

No problem with writing the word "twit" on these boards, Schiz.

We're fraking liberal here.

by R!skysports Sun 9 Feb - 19:30

Let me get this clear, this is about the rugby, not the country

I do get a little annoyed when I feel players are not trying. As a captain I could always forgive mistakes but came down like a tonne of bricks on lazy, non trying gits.

The passion is gone in our
Team and players seems to be going through the motion? Do they deserve our unfettered devotion?

I will always be a true passionate Scotland supporter, but if I feel telling the powers that be that enough is enough through action. Then I will (as I feel some pain not will set us on the right track)

They show passion and I will support through thick and thin.

by Nachos Jones Sun 9 Feb - 20:03

I have thought for a long time that John Kirwan would make the ideal coach for Scotland. Him and the former Aussie RL coach Des Hasler would be a great combination for Scotland.

by mystiroakey Sun 9 Feb - 20:06

I don't understand what he does?

England won the game in first gear.

Never in my life have I seen such an easy game at murrayfield.

I can't work out if it's England being much better or Scotland just rolling over. But either way our lads will be fresh as a daisy after that game,, normally we would be fatigued.. It was like a training excercise.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 9 Feb - 20:08

I agRee with Biltong to a degree, but when an entire team looks as disheartened and out of sorts, and plan-less, as this, it is the manager's fault

by mystiroakey Sun 9 Feb - 20:15

If you are Scottish..

NEVER

by aucklandlaurie Sun 9 Feb - 20:19

Nachos Jones wrote:I have thought for a long time that John Kirwan would make the ideal coach for Scotland. Him and the former Aussie RL coach Des Hasler would be a great combination for Scotland.

Now thats an interesting combination, not only would it be very amusing, but bluddee hell just imagine the lesson in attitude the Scots would get from Dessy and JK.
And then theyd all go surfing.

by Nachos Jones Sun 9 Feb - 20:25

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Nachos Jones wrote:I have thought for a long time that John Kirwan would make the ideal coach for Scotland. Him and the former Aussie RL coach Des Hasler would be a great combination for Scotland.

Now thats an interesting combination, not only would it be very amusing, but bluddee hell just imagine the lesson in attitude the Scots would get from Dessy and JK.
And then theyd all go surfing.

I really believe that it would work. Des would get the defence sorted and will inject some much needed discipline while Kirwan would develop some back play that would really suit the Scottish backs. Win win as far as I am concerned.

Not sure about the surfing though, did it once myself and damn near drowned Very Happy

by **RDW** Sun 9 Feb - 20:38

We were having this discussion in the pub last night - Scotland fans really are the most loyal fans in the world. The fact that we turn up time and time again, shell out a load of cash, and watch such dross shows that we either have very short term memory, or that we are incredibly loyal.

Between my match day ticket, travel, food and booze I spent 80 quid yesterday - I've just bought my first house and that 80 quid could go a long way. What did I get out of it? I was cold, miserable an grumpy for 80 minutes. Money well spent! This isn't a one off either - this happens time and time again and yet we still come back. It really is getting incredibly wearing.

Let's put some things into perspective:

- Scotland have never won a 6N
- Scotland have never won a 6N triple crown
- The last time we won anything was 1999 - the last 5N
- The most games we have won in a 6N is 3, and we have only done that twice
- We have three 6N wooden spoons
- We continually break records for low scoring and low number of tries.
- We went almost an entire season not scoring a try at Murrayfield

Every other home nation has had success in the 6N at some point, and even if they've not had success they've at least had something to cheer about.

Yesterday's game was just awful - literally no line breaks, big hits or stirring carries. Nothing.

Very much considering selling my France game ticket - there are much better things I can spend 80 quid on.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun 9 Feb - 20:39

George Carlin wrote:No problem with writing the word "twit" on these boards, Schiz.

We're fraking liberal here.

Apologies -now sorted kiss

by **RDW** Sun 9 Feb - 20:47

Jonathan Humphries has got to carry the can for this too - since he's taken over has forwards coach our pack has regressed in an alarming rate. We've never been a wonderful attacking team but we've at least always been competitive in the forwards. Our pack has been abysmal since he's taken over.

I wonder if Cotter needs to stick with him when he takes over? I do hope not.

by **Pal Joey** Sun 9 Feb - 20:54

Nachos Jones wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Nachos Jones wrote:I have thought for a long time that John Kirwan would make the ideal coach for Scotland. Him and the former Aussie RL coach Des Hasler would be a great combination for Scotland.

Now thats an interesting combination, not only would it be very amusing, but bluddee hell just imagine the lesson in attitude the Scots would get from Dessy and JK.
And then theyd all go surfing.

I really believe that it would work. Des would get the defence sorted and will inject some much needed discipline while Kirwan would develop some back play that would really suit the Scottish backs. Win win as far as I am concerned.

Not sure about the surfing though, did it once myself and damn near drowned

Des never played rugby though.

Anyway, he's stuck here in Bulldog-land for a while now I would say. I did hear rumours that he might go to the Eels if anything but that seems to have fallen through. I'm not so sure he would give up the lifestyle & financial incentive to swap codes and set up digs in Edinburgh though.

The John Kirwan suggestion is a good one. How about him and Robbie Deans? Whistle

by mystiroakey Sun 9 Feb - 20:57

Never get a foreign Coach in rugby..

If a scot is worse than a foreign one on paper it doesn't matter.

by TJ Sun 9 Feb - 20:59

ChequeredJersey wrote:I agRee with Biltong to a degree, but when an entire team looks as disheartened and out of sorts, and plan-less, as this, it is the manager's fault

Indeed it is. A good manager make the team greater than the sum of the parts. Scotland were worse than the individuals on display

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