Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
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miteyironpaw
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kiakahaaotearoa
Biltong
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Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
There is a strong possibility that Pieter de Villiers may be retained as a caretaker for the English tour of three tests to South Africa in June.
SARU currently find themself in the position of not having secured a Springbok Coach according to supposedly reliable sources. It should be remembered that SARU decided this time round they will be head hunting the “most qualified” and “the best man for the job”
Now that in itself is a bit of an oxymoron in South African sport, as this could mean the right man for the job is not necessarily the most qualified, considering the fact that SARU have opened the doors for “politically appointed” coaches when they appointed Pieter de Villiers in 2008 for “non rugby reasons”
At least according to these “reliable” sources it is one of the options that SARU will be considering due to the fact that the deadline for appointing the new coach is almost upon them.
Reasons for the delay of appointing the coach seems to be that the three most likely candidates, Gert Smal, Heyneke Meyer and Allister Coetzee all have existing contractual obligations.
Gert Smal
He has recently signed an extention for an additional three years with Ireland. A former assistant coach to the World Cup winning squad of Jake White and forwards coach to Ireland for the past number of years, he has also coached Western Province (Currie Cup) and the Stormers (Super Rugby) where he has had some success winning 2 Currie Cup titles and reached the semi finals of the Super rugby competition in 2004. During his tenure as assistant coach to Jake White he has also won the Tri Nations in 2004.
Heyneke Meyer.
When Heyneke Meyer took charge of the Bulls in 2002 he was the catalyst to building a team that would win 4 Currie Cup titles between 2002 and 2006, he took the Bulls from bottom of the log to be the first South African franchise to win their first of 3 Super XIV titles in 2007. Subsequently Frans Ludike has won an additional 2 titles with the squad Meyer has built.
Allister Coetzee
As coach of Western Province (Currie Cup) and The Stormers (Super Rugby) he has yet to win a title. Apart from winning the SA conference last year in the inaugural Super XV tournament, his career is littered with near misses and semi final placings.Perhaps the least successful candidate.
SARU committed themselves to announce the appointment of the new head coach by 27 January 2012, but due to deemed complications they are yet to put the appointment to writing.
Apart from Gert Smal being contracted to Ireland, his son will only be finishing school in Ireland in June.
Allistair Coetzee may have a problem getting out of his contract, due to the sudden resignation of Rassie Erasmus as technical director of Western Province.
Heyneke Meyer has just been appointed in his new position at the Bulls to rebuild their squad alongside Frans Ludeke, and it stands to reason that the Bulls Franchise will not be too keen on losing him.
That leaves Pieter de Villiers as the “other” candidate on the supposed shortlist. The idea being banded around is that De Villiers will be caretaker coach until June, and would then hand over the reigns to the newly appointed coach.
Now from a South African perspective, there seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors regarding the appointment of head coach, and one has to wonder how much the current “transformational” climate in South Africa will influence the appointment.
I for one will be very disappointed if transformation once again curbs the potential of Springbok rugby.
I still wonder whether SARU and Rassie Erasmus aren't talking behind closed doors.
SARU currently find themself in the position of not having secured a Springbok Coach according to supposedly reliable sources. It should be remembered that SARU decided this time round they will be head hunting the “most qualified” and “the best man for the job”
Now that in itself is a bit of an oxymoron in South African sport, as this could mean the right man for the job is not necessarily the most qualified, considering the fact that SARU have opened the doors for “politically appointed” coaches when they appointed Pieter de Villiers in 2008 for “non rugby reasons”
At least according to these “reliable” sources it is one of the options that SARU will be considering due to the fact that the deadline for appointing the new coach is almost upon them.
Reasons for the delay of appointing the coach seems to be that the three most likely candidates, Gert Smal, Heyneke Meyer and Allister Coetzee all have existing contractual obligations.
Gert Smal
He has recently signed an extention for an additional three years with Ireland. A former assistant coach to the World Cup winning squad of Jake White and forwards coach to Ireland for the past number of years, he has also coached Western Province (Currie Cup) and the Stormers (Super Rugby) where he has had some success winning 2 Currie Cup titles and reached the semi finals of the Super rugby competition in 2004. During his tenure as assistant coach to Jake White he has also won the Tri Nations in 2004.
Heyneke Meyer.
When Heyneke Meyer took charge of the Bulls in 2002 he was the catalyst to building a team that would win 4 Currie Cup titles between 2002 and 2006, he took the Bulls from bottom of the log to be the first South African franchise to win their first of 3 Super XIV titles in 2007. Subsequently Frans Ludike has won an additional 2 titles with the squad Meyer has built.
Allister Coetzee
As coach of Western Province (Currie Cup) and The Stormers (Super Rugby) he has yet to win a title. Apart from winning the SA conference last year in the inaugural Super XV tournament, his career is littered with near misses and semi final placings.Perhaps the least successful candidate.
SARU committed themselves to announce the appointment of the new head coach by 27 January 2012, but due to deemed complications they are yet to put the appointment to writing.
Apart from Gert Smal being contracted to Ireland, his son will only be finishing school in Ireland in June.
Allistair Coetzee may have a problem getting out of his contract, due to the sudden resignation of Rassie Erasmus as technical director of Western Province.
Heyneke Meyer has just been appointed in his new position at the Bulls to rebuild their squad alongside Frans Ludeke, and it stands to reason that the Bulls Franchise will not be too keen on losing him.
That leaves Pieter de Villiers as the “other” candidate on the supposed shortlist. The idea being banded around is that De Villiers will be caretaker coach until June, and would then hand over the reigns to the newly appointed coach.
Now from a South African perspective, there seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors regarding the appointment of head coach, and one has to wonder how much the current “transformational” climate in South Africa will influence the appointment.
I for one will be very disappointed if transformation once again curbs the potential of Springbok rugby.
I still wonder whether SARU and Rassie Erasmus aren't talking behind closed doors.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
Well let's hope something is going on behind closed doors to replace Puff Divvy because SA and world rugby deserve someone better than that clown. Hopefully, they already have someone in place who is just running out his exisiting contract. If SA suddenly start advertising the position in June for the coming 4N then the s++t will really hit the fan. At least it should!
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
Nothing really happens on the international scene for the southern hemisphere until then anyway Biltong so his influence should be minimal. If he was caretaker until June 2013 then you might have a problem.
On a side note I see that Bryce Lawrence isn't going over to the republic to referee any games in the super rugby this year. Probably for the best.
On a side note I see that Bryce Lawrence isn't going over to the republic to referee any games in the super rugby this year. Probably for the best.
Full Credit- Posts : 721
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
I hear Martin Johnson is looking for a job...
The Bryce Lawrence thing is interesting though isn't it? He claims that he was desperate to go to face his critics. Hopefully he wasn't intending to do as a certain other criticised world cup referee did and pop over to make some horrendously lop-sided calls for the home team to try to gain some public approval. Personally I think he made a mistake when he apologised for his performance, he clearly wasn't apologising for the things that SA fans found fault with, which seems to have opened himself to rampant criticism.
The Bryce Lawrence thing is interesting though isn't it? He claims that he was desperate to go to face his critics. Hopefully he wasn't intending to do as a certain other criticised world cup referee did and pop over to make some horrendously lop-sided calls for the home team to try to gain some public approval. Personally I think he made a mistake when he apologised for his performance, he clearly wasn't apologising for the things that SA fans found fault with, which seems to have opened himself to rampant criticism.
miteyironpaw- Posts : 1352
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
Well the English series Full Credit is a significant item in the Bok calendar that Puff Divvy will oversee. If PDV coaches like he does when he was the full-time coach, I'd hate to think how he'll coach as a caretaker coach. Willy the Groundsman definition of caretaker I suspect.
Which is a shame, as SA won't want to give up their hoodoo over England. When a team is having difficulty beating you, you don't want to break that habit for them. You want to keep those mental demons present before the ball is even kicked off. Think of the confidence England could get from winning in SA because getting one win away and at home against Australia certainly did very well for their confidence in the 6N last year. SA want to keep their winning ways with a game in England at the end of the year. Keep kicking a man while he's down otherwise he may well get up and hit you onto the ground!
As for Bryce, the quicker he is replaced by Glen Jackson as NZ's number one ref the better for everyone. I think sometimes we're too hard on most refs and I don't like to criticise what is an unenviable job. But sometimes the reason why someone is universally criticised is for a very good reason.
Which is a shame, as SA won't want to give up their hoodoo over England. When a team is having difficulty beating you, you don't want to break that habit for them. You want to keep those mental demons present before the ball is even kicked off. Think of the confidence England could get from winning in SA because getting one win away and at home against Australia certainly did very well for their confidence in the 6N last year. SA want to keep their winning ways with a game in England at the end of the year. Keep kicking a man while he's down otherwise he may well get up and hit you onto the ground!
As for Bryce, the quicker he is replaced by Glen Jackson as NZ's number one ref the better for everyone. I think sometimes we're too hard on most refs and I don't like to criticise what is an unenviable job. But sometimes the reason why someone is universally criticised is for a very good reason.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
Yes fair point Kia, never give a sucker an even break. I don't know how much influence he can have in that space of time anyway. Fresh from super rugby, most blokes will be still playing in the same mold they have been for the past few months (which, presumably will be the form that got them selected in the first place). Divvy telling them to change this and that under threat of being dropped won't hold much weight if he won't be around to enforce it.
Maybe they can send him out on the low note he deserves.
Maybe they can send him out on the low note he deserves.
Full Credit- Posts : 721
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
It's an unenviable position. Win all three and he might stay around longer. Lose a couple and you get rid of the guy but you lose your Bok mojo against England.
I agree though that Super XV largely dicates team performance but selections also play a big part too in performance and this is where PDV has demonstrated to be beyond a doubt utterly clueless. And don't start me on tactics or game plan.
The players they have at their disposal and the stubborn refusal to change the way they play into something more dynamic but equally effective and destructive is criminal.
I agree though that Super XV largely dicates team performance but selections also play a big part too in performance and this is where PDV has demonstrated to be beyond a doubt utterly clueless. And don't start me on tactics or game plan.
The players they have at their disposal and the stubborn refusal to change the way they play into something more dynamic but equally effective and destructive is criminal.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
It's a tough one for opposing fans too. A part of me is happy to watch South Africa fumble around in the dark with Divvy. On the other hand, the longer they suffer under him the stronger the recoil is sure to be once they get their act together as they look to make up for disappointing performances. But, as you say, kick a man while he's down.
Full Credit- Posts : 721
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
Well not many teams have been able to kick SA. They're too busy being kicked in by the Bokke!
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
For me the Bryce Lawrence situation combined with his father's controversial email some years ago is most likely all very coincidental.
It does however provide an opportunity for South Africans to conjure up a theory of prejudice between them. Add to the fact that Bryce Lawrence has found a way not to be involved in any matches in SA, whether by his own design or not, to add fuel to the fire of "admitting some guilt."
Add to that the fact that he admits he blundered in the way he officated the game, but then by the same token carry on to say Australia may have recieved more penalties, but then becuase of Pocock's dominance would have recieved some as well, doesn't enhance his credibility at all.
The pure fact is with only 25% territory and Pocock being penalised the way he should have, he would have stopped dominating illegally and hence not been as much of a factor.
The point is Bryce Lawrence should shut his trap and stop talking, every time he opens his mouth he keeps adding fuel to a fire that has now become simmering embers, and by continueing to make statements it isn't going to die down.
In my eyes the guy is a biased plonk beng infuenced by his father's uncompromising bias, and apart from that a very average referee who should never have recieved an award from NZ rugby.
If it was at a schoolyard back here in SA, he would be the one hiding in the bathrooms during break, because half the kids in school will want to bully him.
But that is enough of the plonk.
Talking about plonks, PDV must under no circumstances be allowed near the Springbok camp, his assistants have moved on, and so must he.
In other news it seems that Heyneke Meyer is touted to be the front runner and is almost a certainty to be appointed.
Only a few more days to wait, and hopefully SARU will announce the appointment.
I just hope that Meyer will surround himself with people that will bring change.
For long enough now our Franchises have shown the ability to play more complete rugby, rather than just bashing it up, and it is time our national team does the same.
It does however provide an opportunity for South Africans to conjure up a theory of prejudice between them. Add to the fact that Bryce Lawrence has found a way not to be involved in any matches in SA, whether by his own design or not, to add fuel to the fire of "admitting some guilt."
Add to that the fact that he admits he blundered in the way he officated the game, but then by the same token carry on to say Australia may have recieved more penalties, but then becuase of Pocock's dominance would have recieved some as well, doesn't enhance his credibility at all.
The pure fact is with only 25% territory and Pocock being penalised the way he should have, he would have stopped dominating illegally and hence not been as much of a factor.
The point is Bryce Lawrence should shut his trap and stop talking, every time he opens his mouth he keeps adding fuel to a fire that has now become simmering embers, and by continueing to make statements it isn't going to die down.
In my eyes the guy is a biased plonk beng infuenced by his father's uncompromising bias, and apart from that a very average referee who should never have recieved an award from NZ rugby.
If it was at a schoolyard back here in SA, he would be the one hiding in the bathrooms during break, because half the kids in school will want to bully him.
But that is enough of the plonk.
Talking about plonks, PDV must under no circumstances be allowed near the Springbok camp, his assistants have moved on, and so must he.
In other news it seems that Heyneke Meyer is touted to be the front runner and is almost a certainty to be appointed.
Only a few more days to wait, and hopefully SARU will announce the appointment.
I just hope that Meyer will surround himself with people that will bring change.
For long enough now our Franchises have shown the ability to play more complete rugby, rather than just bashing it up, and it is time our national team does the same.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
Wouldnt be anything new for pdivvy biltong... Hes been in a caretaker role for some years anyway...so are they still naming before end Jan?
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
They havent notified the meda that they won't be announcing the apointment end of the week, so here's hoping.
It does seem to me though that Bryce Lawrence may just have done us a favour.
Jurie Roux the man in charge of SARU has had a meeting with Heyneke Meyer in the last week, and that can only mean one thing.
Perhaps the loss to Australia in the quarter final was the last straw for the gutless management team at SARU and have decided the way we exited must be rectified in no uncertain terms.
If Heyneke Meyer is the appointed coach, then one thing he surely does have oodles of ability for is to build a squad.
Frans Ludeke may have won 2 Super rugby trophies, but it was with the squad that Heyneke Meyer built.
So it might just be that SARU have for once set aside their bickering and plan to make an onslaught of note in world rugby.
Wouldn't that just be grand, if we can do that?
It does seem to me though that Bryce Lawrence may just have done us a favour.
Jurie Roux the man in charge of SARU has had a meeting with Heyneke Meyer in the last week, and that can only mean one thing.
Perhaps the loss to Australia in the quarter final was the last straw for the gutless management team at SARU and have decided the way we exited must be rectified in no uncertain terms.
If Heyneke Meyer is the appointed coach, then one thing he surely does have oodles of ability for is to build a squad.
Frans Ludeke may have won 2 Super rugby trophies, but it was with the squad that Heyneke Meyer built.
So it might just be that SARU have for once set aside their bickering and plan to make an onslaught of note in world rugby.
Wouldn't that just be grand, if we can do that?
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
If Meyer is appointed I wouldn't expect much in the way of flowing rugby but I would expect the SA team to harder than a coffin nail in the tight. The template he gave the forwards and the defensive structures he put in at Tigers were very well received and he was only there 6 months.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Meyer-set-to-coach-Boks-20120122
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Meyer-set-to-coach-Boks-20120122
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21245
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
True Sam, but hopefully the right assistant coaches and technical advisor would change all that.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
True but he didn't choose to wisely when at Tigers (not sure about his coach picking record other than that). O'Connor was not the most pragmatic of thinkers and preferred the hammer to the sickle. I think SA have the options to do more than beat the opposition into submission via physicality, the set piece and intelligent kicking.
Who are the likely coaching candidates?
Who are the likely coaching candidates?
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21245
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PDV as caretaker
PDV may well end up a Coach again given the Political impact of THE first coloured Bok coach.Don`t know what politics were involved in his initial
appointment.His success rate isn`t much inferior to Jake White`s.Jake White did deliver a RWC,but in NZ where few sides have won in modern times
for ANY BOK Coach.
appointment.His success rate isn`t much inferior to Jake White`s.Jake White did deliver a RWC,but in NZ where few sides have won in modern times
for ANY BOK Coach.
emack2- Posts : 3686
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
Alan, PDV earned his record with Jake White's team. You know as well as I do he brought nothing to the team. His only good thing he did in his four years was to be astute enough to keep Jake White's players and then some of them he held on for too long.
It is the same scenario with the nulls of the past 4 years, Frans Ludeke won two super rugby titles with a squad built by Heyneke Meyer.
Sam, there has been talk of Pieter Rossouw or Paul True the springbok sevens coach as potential back line coaches.
Although there may be a question mark of whether Paul True losing touch with 15 a side rugby, he has proven himself astute whith attacking play. He might not be a bad option to get our back line play with some skill and flair.
There has also been some talk of Rassie Erasmus being the technical advisor.
As for the forward coach not sure.
It is the same scenario with the nulls of the past 4 years, Frans Ludeke won two super rugby titles with a squad built by Heyneke Meyer.
Sam, there has been talk of Pieter Rossouw or Paul True the springbok sevens coach as potential back line coaches.
Although there may be a question mark of whether Paul True losing touch with 15 a side rugby, he has proven himself astute whith attacking play. He might not be a bad option to get our back line play with some skill and flair.
There has also been some talk of Rassie Erasmus being the technical advisor.
As for the forward coach not sure.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
Hi,Biltong apparently Heyneke Meyer has been approached as theNew Coach.The Bulls are making the usual noises ,just signed 4 year contract,disgusted etc.
BUT,in the interests of SARFU will reluctatnly let him go just a matter of how much.Bulls are no longer the Force they were as key players went abroad.
SO,firstly any law changes will have to be taken into account,and whether
Overseas based players are still in the frame.A mistake in my opinion as they
came back unfit,and out of the current training loop.
You have a new young generation to build on,a sensible Coaching team will
temper the set piece game.With a running game too,as your s15 sides and in extremis Bok sides have shown recently.
Meyer will build his game around Set piece domination,Lineout without Matfield
/Botha may be less effective.Scrummage last couple of years[by the best Bpk standards] has been average at best.
The last good scrummaging Prop i`ve seen was Os Du Randt!!!,goalkickers you have bucket loads.
IF whoever remembers the forwards PRIMARY role,good ball for the backs to use.Instead of cluttering up the midfield then you have a whole new ballgame,as to PDV and Jake White.
PDV tried to introduce a more varied approach,his Senior Players would`nt let him!!!Imagine someone trying to do that to Sir Freddie Allen there eye`s would have watered how quick they were dumped.!!!
Also true PDV inherited Jake Whites team,but Whites record was`nt that clever either.OFF course a RWC whitewashes a multitude of sins,and losses.
BUT,in the interests of SARFU will reluctatnly let him go just a matter of how much.Bulls are no longer the Force they were as key players went abroad.
SO,firstly any law changes will have to be taken into account,and whether
Overseas based players are still in the frame.A mistake in my opinion as they
came back unfit,and out of the current training loop.
You have a new young generation to build on,a sensible Coaching team will
temper the set piece game.With a running game too,as your s15 sides and in extremis Bok sides have shown recently.
Meyer will build his game around Set piece domination,Lineout without Matfield
/Botha may be less effective.Scrummage last couple of years[by the best Bpk standards] has been average at best.
The last good scrummaging Prop i`ve seen was Os Du Randt!!!,goalkickers you have bucket loads.
IF whoever remembers the forwards PRIMARY role,good ball for the backs to use.Instead of cluttering up the midfield then you have a whole new ballgame,as to PDV and Jake White.
PDV tried to introduce a more varied approach,his Senior Players would`nt let him!!!Imagine someone trying to do that to Sir Freddie Allen there eye`s would have watered how quick they were dumped.!!!
Also true PDV inherited Jake Whites team,but Whites record was`nt that clever either.OFF course a RWC whitewashes a multitude of sins,and losses.
emack2- Posts : 3686
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
Biltong
In the interests of your good health and well being,DO NOT read Chris Rattues latest article in the NZ Herald entitled "When bitter and twisted goes too far".
It touches on things Springbok,Bryce Lawrence and Australia winning.....
In the interests of your good health and well being,DO NOT read Chris Rattues latest article in the NZ Herald entitled "When bitter and twisted goes too far".
It touches on things Springbok,Bryce Lawrence and Australia winning.....
aucklandlaurie- Posts : 7561
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Re: Pieter de Villiers may have caretaker role until June 2012
Aucklandlaurie it is like saying to a guy on a ledge not to look down.
What's he gonna do, he is going to look down.
Anyhow, I have read his piece and will retort on here with a response.
What's he gonna do, he is going to look down.
Anyhow, I have read his piece and will retort on here with a response.
Biltong- Moderator
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