Stuart Lancaster

The media are all getting very excited about Stuart Lancaster's appointment to the RFU. Yesterdays Players and Coaches Press Day at the opening of the 6N tournament has created a clamour for Lancaster's thoughts suppositions on the weeks to come.

He has had a meteoric rise from Head oif Elite Player Development to England first team Boss over night. Again the RFU have selected a man with no senior International coaching experience who hasn't even run a Premiership team.

Will he be a success despite having no credentials?

what a daft poll

do well
do well
no
no

how about a bit more imagination

Hold up as Coach but lack progress on the field

Show good ideas and intention but have a poor 6N standing

Sets a good standard for players and England have a surprising 6N

Nothing can save him, the RFU will appoint a 'Big Name' by the end of the 6N

The RFU took the only sensible option in appointing him on a temporray basis and clealry communicating this

They learnt the lesson form Johnson, a coach who was appointed without the people he was working for wanting him there. They spent the next 4 years trying to make him look as bad as possible, that cant happene again.

The decision to appoint the head coach has to be made by the people he will be working under, and done through an open and honest process looking at a range of candidates....not through backroom politics. To get to that stage they need to settle down whos actually employed elsewhere within the organisation and exactly what Rob Andrews job is and who he is likely to stab in the back in an attempt to get his knighthood.

The only sensible choice for a temporary appointment was Lancaster. He has worked with most of the players, and knows the chaps to bring through from the Saxons.
To me though he does appear a little out of his depth and a little too desperate to impress. I hope he doesnt loose the players with this. Seniority though does always breed repsect, look at the mess Brian Ashton got into despite decades of experience. The senior squad had no faith in him, and he didnt build a strong team.
Ashton though was the RFUs other option, but from what I understabnd made it clear he didnt want to get involved. Cant really blame him.


Lancaster has said hes applied for the permanent job. Well his application can be judges on the 6 nations. Maybe this will sharpoen him up a bit, previously hes been talking down the importance of results and banging on about building a team etc.
It would be nice to think he wants to win the odd game along the way.
Starting with Scotland. Im sure Gary Neville will give thm all the tactical insight they need into how to wear a shirt required for winning that.

He has a lot more experience than Johnson as a coach. He was already within the set up of the RFU. That is a good CV compared with the Johnson appointment.

There were and are plenty of other people who were available to caretaker manage England for the Six Nations.

Lancaster will certainly be the coach that everyone will be wondering if he has any ability.

Even if he does show ability it seems that there is a rugby clamouring to dispense attributing any success to him.

Clive Woodward said last week in the Guardian.

"Considering the fact that he's never coached a team at Premiership level he must be thinking how lucky he is to get this opportunity," Woodward told the Guardian.

"You wish him well but international rugby is a tough environment. My advice to him would be to play it down.

"Look, he's spoken a lot of common sense but it's easy to talk common sense. How can we make any judgments when we've not seen how his teams even play? In the end he will be judged solely on results. The Six Nations is a tough competition and he's got a lot to prove."

maestegmafia wrote:There were and are plenty of other people who were available to caretaker manage England for the Six Nations.

Such as ?

Warren Gatland?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:There were and are plenty of other people who were available to caretaker manage England for the Six Nations.

Such as ?

Warren Gatland?

No Warren Gatland was in contract with the WRU.

Wayne Smith would have been a good choice with a lot more international experience, John Kirwan too...!

I am frankly amazed at the amount of faith in Lancaster, would anyone like to offer up some suggestions as to why they think he will do well....?

Not sure how well he will do, though I just have a feeling he will do better than most are expecting.

Thing is they (RFU) were looking for an interim/caretaker coach and surely Lancaster was obvious choice.

If you have an A Side then for me the coach should be someone who in the long term is seen as good enough to coach the top side and as a coach its the natural progression.

maestegmafia wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:There were and are plenty of other people who were available to caretaker manage England for the Six Nations.

Such as ?

Warren Gatland?

No Warren Gatland was in contract with the WRU.

Wayne Smith would have been a good choice with a lot more international experience, John Kirwan too...!

I am frankly amazed at the amount of faith in Lancaster, would anyone like to offer up some suggestions as to why they think he will do well....?

Didnt they refuse to take the job if it wasnt permanent?
Pretty sure Ashton ruled himself out too, obviously it was beneath SCW.. and now way theyd let Andrew in on it even though he had a sniff. Dean Richards still serving his ban.
Really there wasnt much other option than to bring Lancaster up, theres also sensible reasons why despite his l;ack of expereine it was a smoother transition with gettng to temp job. In theory it should also be much easier for him to jump straight in with this bunch of players, its only a handful of the experienced ones he hasnt worked with before (and Morgan) .

He still has a lot to prove if his application for the fulltime job is to be taken seriously, but I cant really see who else the RFU could or should have put in place at this point.

Mind Martin Johnson was available.

There's no option in the poll for Lancaster being good as England coach but being let down by his players. The 'silk purse' option.

England have a pretty decent squad. A good coach should be able to get a result out of them.

Still no opinions on why fans think he will do well.

I don't think anyone knows very much about the guy yet.

maestegmafia wrote:England have a pretty decent squad. A good coach should be able to get a result out of them.

Still no opinions on why fans think he will do well.

I don't think anyone knows very much about the guy yet.

We know he was pretty succesful with the Saxons, but they were rarely tested against good opposition.
We know he has a love for uitility players on the bench rather than speacilist 10's.
We know he beleives if you get a bunch of falir backs and let them play they will. What worries me a bit about this is that hes used to having a Saxons side that generally bosses its opposition all over the park. England will rarely do that, he may find that the free flowing chuck it around showing off players struggle when they are being hammered buy a rampant South African pack.
His selections for the most part so far have been pretty much as expected, although slightly more ruthless with the older players than perhaps expected. Hes been quite iopen about this approach then and made it clear hes interested in starting from scracth. We know he wanted Wood as his capatin, so hell have to look for a similar age guy. He obviously doenst care if they have a lot of caps or not. Hes spoken about "finding out of premiership experince counts", which suggests Robshaw will be tried out to me.
He seems to be nmaking a real effort on the finer details of sqaud preperation. Elsewhere Ive questioned just how important it is for him to do a tour of small clubbs and get Gary Neville in to talk about something....but this is part of his grand plan to rip it upo and start again. Take a bunch of kids and mould them into model professionals, then worry about of they can actually play rugby and are fit enough later. Johnsons approach was to get a bunch of kids, chuuck them in at the deep end, critisize their fitness and attitude and drop them, get the old guys back then moan they werent good enough, have a huff and say OK well lets try scoring then see if that works, get a breif smile when it worked, then treat them all to a nbice holiday in New Zealand that just happened to coincide with a world cup. Lancasters approach may work better, Im open on that.

But sure like the whole England squad we areally dont know how things are going to go. He has a lot to prove, as do the players. Hes saying all the things to please the fans and increase the myth that all Englands failings were down to Johnsons and a bit of mucking about on tour by middle aged men. Cant really critisize him for wanting to try and creat a psoitive vibe in the press and public opinion around his team.

He will be judged more after the tournament

I thought he coached Leeds when they were in the prem??????????

tooboredtowork wrote:I thought he coached Leeds when they were in the prem??????????

He was DOR, not coach. One season in the premiership ( relegated horribly). Prior to that he ran the academy.

He is on a hiding to nothing with SCW already sniping. He has tried to bring in younger players but that will take time to develop. Unfortnatly for Lancaster I dont think he is going to be guven the time.

Hes a talented coach who could lead an england revival but I dont think its going to happen for him. Once Mallett or whoever is in charge Lancasters work will have provided a good foundatin, its just a shame Lancaster wont see it in himself.

Tycroes,

I think he's in a win win rather than hiding to nothing, people are expecting him to fail so if he does nothing lost.

If he does get them to do well then he has Poopie a lot of people up. SCW might want to think what his early years were like.

After reading some of the reports especially the Woodward opinion I saw it the other way round, that if England do well it will be because the different players are making the difference and not the coach...!!

Ah but Bedford even if he does well in the six nations he is going to be out of a job come the summer. Thats what I mean by hiding to nothing. He could win a grand slam but he will still be out the door when the RFU bring in their "big hitter" thats whhy I said hiding to nothing. what the fans think is going to be immaterial its what the suits at the RFU think that will matter and for them Lancaster is a stop gap nothing more.

Nah i think if he wins the tournament they will find it near impossible to not keep him on.


What they will do though is bring in a father figure as elite director to oversee him, that will be the big name.

His a Temp, if he does well then well done, but that shouldn't mean he gets the job full time.

For once I think the RFU have taken the right option, we don't need to rush into this, 2015 is our No1 target.

We have to get the right man to take us forward, if that means sacrificing this years 6 nations then so be it.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Nah i think if he wins the tournament they will find it near impossible to not keep him on.


What they will do though is bring in a father figure as elite director to oversee him, that will be the big name.

Peter,

If he does win it then I hope they have the decency to offer him the job BUT I have said a few times now that I think the RFU want the 'marque' name to come in that they can hang their hat on and be the saviours of English rugby etc etc.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Nah i think if he wins the tournament they will find it near impossible to not keep him on.


What they will do though is bring in a father figure as elite director to oversee him, that will be the big name.

Peter,

If he does win it then I hope they have the decency to offer him the job BUT I have said a few times now that I think the RFU want the 'marque' name to come in that they can hang their hat on and be the saviours of English rugby etc etc.

Yeah which is why theyd give them the "SCW" role as a team director or whatever and keep Lancaster as a coach. The RFU bods want that structure, but most of the big names ( like Johnson) have made it clear they wouldnt be happy with that unless they knew who that person was in advance and were happy they could work with them. Keeping Lancaster on in a slightly reduced role whilst bringing in the big name for a pension fund would get round that tricky situation.

But wouldn't the big name wantto bring in his own team etc.

HERSH wrote:His a Temp, if he does well then well done, but that shouldn't mean he gets the job full time.

For once I think the RFU have taken the right option, we don't need to rush into this, 2015 is our No1 target.

We have to get the right man to take us forward, if that means sacrificing this years 6 nations then so be it.

Is that the popular opinion as well as just Hersh's...?

That England's fans are willing to sacrifice this years Six Nations? Doesn't sound like the type of option ever given to a player or coach in the England set up since about 1987 when England started taking rugby a hell of a lot more seriously.

I'm looking forward to being the underdog against that great rugby side called Scotland!

Good to see an England fan with a bit of Respect for their opponents.

I like the noises he is making and the signals he is sending. Dropping Care was a great move - sets the tone.

Results - we shall see. He doesn't have long to impressbut its win / win for him.

maes, you seem to be asking everyone for reasons why he'll do well.

How about you give us your reasons for him not doing well?

I don't know much about the guy to be honest, and that is my reason for surprise at peoples unequivocal belief in him.

He lacks the experience of any of the rival coaches at League or International level.

There has been a lot of PR, dropping of players, stern words about expelling potential trouble makers etc etc, all very well covered in the recent press. Though so little about the man himself, almost like the PR is to deflect away from the mans abilities.

We have seen good England teams for the majority of the last twenty years, almost twenty five, players come and go seamlessly into the machine. Though the last eight years that machine has faltered, stuttered and at the RWC appeared to stall.

England need a good mechanic, Geoff Cooke, Jack Rowell, Clive Woodward were all good mechanics, whether through their coaching abilities or organisational skills at putting together the right people in the right environment.

I fear that after Woodward's tenure too much of what came out of the England coaching set up was PR and spin and little of it substance.

This doesn't seem to be much of a change.

Not that credited successful accolades are the attributes of all England's better coaches and managers. Only Rowell and Ashton were appointed on the back of actual achievement.

In this thread I wanted to hear some good honest English fans opinions on the Stuart Lancaster and the position he is in. I also was hoping to find out a little more about the man himself.

Maesteg I agree with you. Ive been hounded by a certain internet psycopath over this but I fail to see whats so exciting about a man whos main aim at the moment seems to be to simply appearing as different to Martin Johnson as possible whilst for the most part doing exactly the same things he did, but with more Gary Neville.
They nitty gritty of what really matters we know very little about. We also know very little about how good these kids really will be, and how the team will gel. Its a guessing game.
Ive been accused of being over negative and having it in for him simply because I said this absence of substance makes me nervous, Id counter that by assuming England will be brilliant under him is a mixture of arrogance and the blind optimism we associate with the Welsh.
If he approaches this as he has the Saxons games hell be in for a nasty shock, the 6 nations will be a hell of a lot more physical and always seems to end up as trench warfare whatever the intentions of the various coaches are. Theres something about meaningful games between evenly matched sides in the middle of a European winter that brings out that old Somme spirit. This isnt the churchill cup.
My dread is that a bunch of fresh faced brainwashed english boys will come back from a wet windy murrayfield covered in blue warpaint after a 30 point defeat but "saying all the right things" from the steve borthwick soundbites for boys annual. Im sure we could take the positives from that but itd be nice to win too.

Sky Sports poll asking is Stuart Lancaster the right choice as England's interim head coach?

Yes 53%
No 47%

Fact is we have no idea how well Lancaster (and by that measure, England) will do until at least after the Scotland game. I like the way he's going about things, but as others have said, the important thing is how they perform on the pitch once the other stuff has calmed down. Lancaster has done the first bit ok, dealing with the media, talking the talk etc but now the real work starts.

Let's not forget that Scotland at Murrayfield is one of usually one of those stodgy, attritional games that may not tell us a great deal yet. Or, on the other hand, it could tell us a lot, good or bad.

I do like the no-nonsense back-up of Rowntree and Farrell. I read somewhere that Lancaster has worked with all but about 6 of the senior squad at some point so it's not like they're complete strangers.

This period of not quite knowing is a bit unsettling but quite exciting too!

It's difficult to have a view at this point on whether Lancaster should get a longer go at the job.