Federer - is it the mind or the body?

First topic message reminder :

One or both is not working as it should anymore. Last four slams:

FO. Goes 5-2 up in the first set but loses that set and eventually loses in 4.

W. Goes 2 sets up and loses in 5.

US. Goes 2 sets up and loses in 5 (after two match points on serve).

AO. Wins first set but loses in 4. Fails to hold any break advantage outside of tie break.

His career proves him to be a player of brilliance but he no longer seems capable of holding on to a lead. So what is letting him down now - the mind or the body? Or both?

I think there is no excuse. Nadal might be even the biggest customer of Dr Fuentes ( which is quite likely) but the way Fed is losing those H2H is by playing fearful, mentally in total panic and wasting most of the numerous opportunities on the big points.

Otherwise Fed would have trashed Nadal, as simple as that.

Tenez wrote:Lucius....c'mon....What kind of plan? Hitting the lines. Good plan!

You keep going on with the mental side but it has nothing to do with it. Even if Fed had won tat 4th set he woudl have lost teh 5th 62 like 2009. Knowing this is not going to help his shot making at key points.

Fed has to play great shots one after the other and even those come back...like this one on break back point falling on the line after having kissed a seagull. Can you work a plan to handle those?

We saw the plan at teh beginning of the match. Easy...just execute well like he did in the first 4 games....but to do that you need to upper fit. If you can rally with Nadal like Djoko does, then sure no need to go for suicidal shots.

That's teh dfference.

that was funny

Tenez wrote:That's the point. Those fans would love to be able to say teh difference was that Nadal is more talented. But that is something they'll never be able to give evidence for, let alone prove.

The amusing thing is you actually think everyone is so bothered about Tenez' twisted opinions about talent and what not. I can't speak for everyone but my irritation with your posts is the sheer insufferable consistency of spamming articles with the same thing. Or your tendency to manipulate and twist every fact to suit your absurd theories. Or the peculiar habit of making things up as you go along while getting strung up in contradictions.

Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match. Like I told you before, it's just a game. Let this forum breathe, Tenez. Regurgitating the same thing over and over and over ceaselessly for years following a sport like tennis (you'll stand out even in a football forum) isn't healthy. You're really tedious.

luciusmann wrote:Only the die hand Nadal fans think Nadal is more talented. Not even Nadal seems to think he's more talented (according to his biography): what does that tell you?

Nadal doesn't have a particularly remarkable strategy or vastly superior tactics but the big difference between them is Nadal executes his flawlessly whereas Fed doesn't and therein do we see why Fed has lost the last 5 grand slam encounters.

The fact Fed has more slams alone is indicative he has more talent, until Nadal overtakes his haul, it's hard to argue he is....although talent is something which is far more subjective in nature than other things. You could easily argue if Nadal did over take Fed on the slam count he achieved more, but may not have had more talent? Again, highly subjective, depending on your perspective.

And talent toward what also? Federer obviously has the greater attacking gifts but we have to concede that defence and retrieval is a talent too.

If there is a difference between their talents, it is that Nadal's is linked to his physical self. It could only manifest itself in the body of a supreme athlete like Nadal. Federer though, just seems to be a normal guy who has been blessed with shot-making talent. It seems more 'organic', as if the talent were in place from birth and Federer just has to let it out (a gross simplification because Fed has spent thousands of hours on practise courts but that's the only way I can describe it!). I sense that Nadal's talent had to be assembled rather than be uncovered.

But this is what I am finding so frustrating about Federer over the last couple of years and why I'm developing a grudging respect for Nadal. Fed won the genetic lottery and if he could ally it with greater mental steel, he would be at 20+ slams and indisputably the greatest ever. As amazing as his achievements are, there is a lingering feeling that they could, and maybe should, have been even better.

Nadal doesn't have the same gifts but he has maximised what he does have. There is no sense that he has under achieved in any way. I don't happen to like the way in which he has maximised his talent but I would still praise him for what he has achieved. I no longer get frustrated with him for winning in such an attritious way. I now get frustrated with Fed for having all the natural gifts and all the tools to finish the job but not doing so!

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:That's the point. Those fans would love to be able to say teh difference was that Nadal is more talented. But that is something they'll never be able to give evidence for, let alone prove.

The amusing thing is you actually think everyone is so bothered about Tenez' twisted opinions about talent and what not. I can't speak for everyone but my irritation with your posts is the sheer insufferable consistency of spamming articles with the same thing. Or your tendency to manipulate and twist every fact to suit your absurd theories. Or the peculiar habit of making things up as you go along while getting strung up in contradictions.

Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

What a liar, you are happy like a fool.....

mthierry wrote:Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

Please don't I'll be happy soon...by Sunday midday actually!

A while ago I had a thread about 16 slams being an underachievement...

I think Fed's mental steel is already great, it takes more mental steel to play the way he does than to play like Nadal. But his mental steel usually corrodes at key moments which makes the difference in their matches. Remember his game or what makes him special is shot making brilliance and going for difficult shots with the regularity of routine ones. It seems hi considerable mental strength falls to mere mortal levels on the key points which isn't enough to get the job done. Also with the conditions the way they were, you know he'd have to hit an outstanding shot to take his break points. Unfortunately his focus today wasn't up to the standard needed to execute his game.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:A while ago I had a thread about 16 slams being an underachievement...

I think Fed's mental steel is already great, it takes more mental steel to play the way he does than to play like Nadal. But his mental steel usually corrodes at key moments which makes the difference in their matches. .

It's a good start but it's not that it corrodes at key moments, its simply that Nadal sends a ball that is simply too difficult to handle. Against Murray and Djokovic the ball is not as violent meaning Federer can control it and therefore control the rally a bit better. The targets are also bigger cause they don;t loop the ball as much for a passing. Djoko and Murray are essentially passing Nadal on a two dimension world. Nadal with his loopy shots and power can effectively pass Federer at the net in a 3D world. Not only has he got to cover right and left but also high loopy shots that are risky to put away.

It's tough.

HM Murdoch wrote:Fed won the genetic lottery and if he could ally it with greater mental steel, he would be at 20+ slams and indisputably the greatest ever. As amazing as his achievements are, there is a lingering feeling that they could, and maybe should, have been even better.

“In the history of tennis, everybody’s an underachiever,” Safin said on wimbledon.org. “Everybody. Every single person. Every single player is an underachiever. Agassi should have been winning, I don’t know, 15 Grand Slams. Sampras should have been winning 20 Grand Slams. Federer should be winning, already should have 25. Rios at least five. So you know what I’m saying. It’s like everybody’s an underachiever. Everybody could do better.”

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:That's the point. Those fans would love to be able to say teh difference was that Nadal is more talented. But that is something they'll never be able to give evidence for, let alone prove.

The amusing thing is you actually think everyone is so bothered about Tenez' twisted opinions about talent and what not. I can't speak for everyone but my irritation with your posts is the sheer insufferable consistency of spamming articles with the same thing. Or your tendency to manipulate and twist every fact to suit your absurd theories. Or the peculiar habit of making things up as you go along while getting strung up in contradictions.

Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

What a liar, you are happy like a fool.....

What cave did this dim-wit emerge from? Are you another bitter fanboy? Hang in there, sunshine.....it gets easier.

Federer is one of those who refuses to play dull but efficient tennis, it's like he has his arms tied because of who he is and that he promotes a flair and exciting brand of tennis. I hope by some miracle Fed wins 1 of FO/Wimb/Olympics otherwise he should retire and make big bucks in the exhibitions, he doesn't need to be subjected to animalistic/defensive/anti tennis.

So yes it is the mind.

Tenez wrote:
It's tough.

Darn tough. But Federer doesn't lack talent, hand-eye co-ordination or imagination, so is it just a SHBH thing then? Because Novak has proved that that shot can be dealt with.

mthierry

Nadal's only way to win is through dull neutral tennis and lulling greater opponents to sleep, he is lucky that the conditions make for such pathetic defensive tennis. He is the modern day Chang

reckoner wrote:

HM Murdoch wrote:Fed won the genetic lottery and if he could ally it with greater mental steel, he would be at 20+ slams and indisputably the greatest ever. As amazing as his achievements are, there is a lingering feeling that they could, and maybe should, have been even better.

“In the history of tennis, everybody’s an underachiever,” Safin said on wimbledon.org. “Everybody. Every single person. Every single player is an underachiever. Agassi should have been winning, I don’t know, 15 Grand Slams. Sampras should have been winning 20 Grand Slams. Federer should be winning, already should have 25. Rios at least five. So you know what I’m saying. It’s like everybody’s an underachiever. Everybody could do better.”

I certainly agree that on faster conditions, and had PRP treatment been forbiden like it was up to Sept 2009, the Federer woudl have had a better chance to add some slams.



Federer needs the help of teh other players to win slams nowadays. I thought at first it was an advantage to have Nadal in his quarter....but obviously maybe not. He needs the physical players to do the job for himself.

HM Murdoch wrote:

Tenez wrote:
It's tough.

Darn tough. But Federer doesn't lack talent, hand-eye co-ordination or imagination, so is it just a SHBH thing then? Because Novak has proved that that shot can be dealt with.

Indeed, it makes a huge difference on those slow surfaces.

mthierry wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:That's the point. Those fans would love to be able to say teh difference was that Nadal is more talented. But that is something they'll never be able to give evidence for, let alone prove.

The amusing thing is you actually think everyone is so bothered about Tenez' twisted opinions about talent and what not. I can't speak for everyone but my irritation with your posts is the sheer insufferable consistency of spamming articles with the same thing. Or your tendency to manipulate and twist every fact to suit your absurd theories. Or the peculiar habit of making things up as you go along while getting strung up in contradictions.

Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

What a liar, you are happy like a fool.....

What cave did this dim-wit emerge from? Are you another bitter fanboy? Hang in there, sunshine.....it gets easier.

You are a liar, you are unappealing, you are a dull Nadal fangirl. Shortly: the worst poster on this forum. Get out please!

Tenez wrote:

mthierry wrote:Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

Please don't I'll be happy soon...by Sunday midday actually!

That's the spirit! Maybe you should learn to actually enjoy the sport more. I've liked Rafa since I first saw him despite the tics and rituals and grunting and El Pirata looks but I've never been so bitter even when Nole beats him consistently. I guess I actually enjoy the sport and can never be viscerally invested enough in a player to dislike or hate or consistently deride others. It's just not worth my time.

I think you should try it more often.

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:That's the point. Those fans would love to be able to say teh difference was that Nadal is more talented. But that is something they'll never be able to give evidence for, let alone prove.

The amusing thing is you actually think everyone is so bothered about Tenez' twisted opinions about talent and what not. I can't speak for everyone but my irritation with your posts is the sheer insufferable consistency of spamming articles with the same thing. Or your tendency to manipulate and twist every fact to suit your absurd theories. Or the peculiar habit of making things up as you go along while getting strung up in contradictions.

Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

What a liar, you are happy like a fool.....

What cave did this dim-wit emerge from? Are you another bitter fanboy? Hang in there, sunshine.....it gets easier.

You are a liar, you are unappealing, you are a dull Nadal fangirl. Shortly: the worst poster on this forum. Get out please!

lol.......you certainly do need your meds. Calm down, sunshine: it's just a game.

mthierry wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:That's the point. Those fans would love to be able to say teh difference was that Nadal is more talented. But that is something they'll never be able to give evidence for, let alone prove.

The amusing thing is you actually think everyone is so bothered about Tenez' twisted opinions about talent and what not. I can't speak for everyone but my irritation with your posts is the sheer insufferable consistency of spamming articles with the same thing. Or your tendency to manipulate and twist every fact to suit your absurd theories. Or the peculiar habit of making things up as you go along while getting strung up in contradictions.

Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

What a liar, you are happy like a fool.....

What cave did this dim-wit emerge from? Are you another bitter fanboy? Hang in there, sunshine.....it gets easier.

You are a liar, you are unappealing, you are a dull Nadal fangirl. Shortly: the worst poster on this forum. Get out please!

lol.......you certainly do need your meds. Calm down, sunshine: it's just a game.

Tenez wrote:

reckoner wrote:

HM Murdoch wrote:Fed won the genetic lottery and if he could ally it with greater mental steel, he would be at 20+ slams and indisputably the greatest ever. As amazing as his achievements are, there is a lingering feeling that they could, and maybe should, have been even better.

“In the history of tennis, everybody’s an underachiever,” Safin said on wimbledon.org. “Everybody. Every single person. Every single player is an underachiever. Agassi should have been winning, I don’t know, 15 Grand Slams. Sampras should have been winning 20 Grand Slams. Federer should be winning, already should have 25. Rios at least five. So you know what I’m saying. It’s like everybody’s an underachiever. Everybody could do better.”

I certainly agree that on faster conditions, and had PRP treatment been forbiden like it was up to Sept 2009, the Federer woudl have had a better chance to add some slams.



Federer needs the help of teh other players to win slams nowadays. I thought at first it was an advantage to have Nadal in his quarter....but obviously maybe not. He needs the physical players to do the job for himself.

But, the physical players aren't going away, so he needs to find another solution. I mean - if he didn't lapse into timid play he would have won two sets comfortably today. He needs a hypnotist or something I reckon.

Wilander was saying he wants to hear Federer shouting "Come on" in Swiss German - I'd give anything for him to go over to Nadal's chair and kick his water bottles into the crowd. He needs to leave himself and his opponent no doubt that he wants to win, that defeat is no option even if it means appearing less gracious or gentlemanly. It would look less foolish in my opinion than making basic errors when trying to close a point.

Anyway, what a shame that all that preparation came to nothing and he made the job so much harder for himself. Nadal was there for the taking in the first 2 sets.

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:

mthierry wrote:Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

Please don't I'll be happy soon...by Sunday midday actually!

That's the spirit! Maybe you should learn to actually enjoy the sport more. I've liked Rafa since I first saw him despite the tics and rituals and grunting and El Pirata looks but I've never been so bitter even when Nole beats him consistently. I guess I actually enjoy the sport and can never be viscerally invested enough in a player to dislike or hate or consistently deride others. It's just not worth my time.

I think you should try it more often.

It's because I love tennis and am no fanboy like you that I cannot appreciate to see the greatest talent tennis has ever had to play the Russian roulette on every shot cause a player who typically gets bagelled running out of breath in a 2 setter outside slams suddenly finds the form of his life in teh next slam as many of us predicted 2 months ago.

I would say, it's not funny anymore.

However I do enjoy watching Nadal play against other players who can sustain a rally with him witout having to go for broke on every shot. However seeing Nadal cramping in the 4th set of that USO final and walk like he had he had an umbrella squeesed between his legs cause the lactic acid coudl not be evacuated on time, was as beautiful as Federer's DTL SHBH.

It is pleasing to see so much passion for the game expressed on this thread.

Tenez wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:

mthierry wrote:Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

Please don't I'll be happy soon...by Sunday midday actually!

That's the spirit! Maybe you should learn to actually enjoy the sport more. I've liked Rafa since I first saw him despite the tics and rituals and grunting and El Pirata looks but I've never been so bitter even when Nole beats him consistently. I guess I actually enjoy the sport and can never be viscerally invested enough in a player to dislike or hate or consistently deride others. It's just not worth my time.

I think you should try it more often.

It's because I love tennis and am no fanboy like you that I cannot appreciate to see the greatest talent tennis has ever had to play the Russian roulette on every shot cause a player who typically gets bagelled running out of breath in a 2 setter outside slams suddenly finds the form of his life in teh next slam as many of us predicted 2 months ago.

I would say, it's not funny anymore.

However I do enjoy watching Nadal play against other players who can sustain a rally with him witout having to go for broke on every shot. However seeing Nadal cramping in the 4th set of that USO final and walk like he had he had an umbrella squeesed between his legs cause the lactic acid coudl not be evacuated on time, was as beautiful as Federer's DTL SHBH.

nice one Tenez

mthierry wrote:What kind of moderators are on this forum where a bunch of losers hiding behind internet anonymity can post slanderous, libelous garbage on an article because they can't get over their bitterness.

Seriously, lines are getting crossed here and many react with apathy. Shameful!

Laverfan is too saddened by todays result to do her job.

But who cares, it's amusing to read.

Tenez you're really not happy about this loss. Fed didn't play as well as he needed to or close to as well as he could. Look at all those wide forehands and net tapes. I do sympathise with you in that Nadal was still 5m behind the baseline all the time on a hard court which is not good. I can understand if this was a spectacular Fed performance that thoroughly deserved the win but it wasn't.

reckoner wrote:Wilander was saying he wants to hear Federer shouting "Come on" in Swiss German - I'd give anything for him to go over to Nadal's chair and kick his water bottles into the crowd. He needs to leave himself and his opponent no doubt that he wants to win, that defeat is no option even if it means appearing less gracious or gentlemanly. It would look less foolish in my opinion than making basic errors when trying to close a point.

Anyway, what a shame that all that preparation came to nothing and he made the job so much harder for himself. Nadal was there for the taking in the first 2 sets.

Wish it was that simple. Wilander is a good commentator but remember he is Nadal's father. He was a pretty gutless player and one of the first to moonball his way to slams with little risk in his game. So it makes me laugh when he advises federer. You can say that almost all shots of Federer are actuallly gutsy. If he had teh power and energy to rally he would, like he does against weaker players. But against Nadal, he knows that it's a wasted case you have Djoko stamina and a dble HBH.

I do not believe it's in the mind. If it was in the mind, why does he consistanstly lead in slams and even TMS when he is fresh? If you are nervous, then you start nervous. But it's always when his edge goes that UEs crip in.

Tenez wrote:Wish it was that simple. Wilander is a good commentator but remember he is Nadal's father. He was a pretty gutless player and one of the first to moonball his way to slams with little risk in his game. So it makes me laugh when he advises federer. You can say that almost all shots of Federer are actuallly gutsy. If he had teh power and energy to rally he would, like he does against weaker players. But against Nadal, he knows that it's a wasted case you have Djoko stamina and a dble HBH.

I do not believe it's in the mind. If it was in the mind, why does he consistanstly lead in slams and even TMS when he is fresh? If you are nervous, then you start nervous. But it's always when his edge goes that UEs crip in.

Well, if he was the prototype for Nadal perhaps he has insight into the mental side of things? Yeah it's true he was losing his edge but remember that Nadal started very nervily and Fed should have sought to keep him under the cosh a bit more IMO.

Anyway - it's easy for us to criticise - as someone said nothing is impossible when someone else has to do it!

reckoner wrote:
Anyway - it's easy for us to criticise - as someone said nothing is impossible when someone else has to do it!

That's what it is. You can see that when he is facing Djokovic, he is also fighting like a lion and his nerves are actually magically solid against him...almost too relxed as we saw on the MPs. But against Nadal, the ball has much more energy and cannot be controlled. That's what people don;t understand. It has too much energy and spin.



As said million times, when Nadal is not "slam-fit" Federer has no problem handling that ball and dictates beautifully.

Some don't want to see it...They see themselves in their dream pulling the winners Federer can't and say "it's in the mind".

Josiah Maiestas wrote:mthierry

Nadal's only way to win is through dull neutral tennis and lulling greater opponents to sleep, he is lucky that the conditions make for such pathetic defensive tennis. He is the modern day Chang

Why exactly are you telling me this? I've never begrudged Fed anything and never said he's inferior to Rafa cos I just don't care.

I think a lot of these Fed fanatics are incapable of comprehending the simple fact that you can actually enjoy tennis and cheer a player without animousity towards his rivals or juvenile one-upmanship bickering reserved for playground kids.

This forum is really pathetic.

mthierry is perhaps at the stage of evolution we all will hopefully reach as posters on a forum (I mean it in a good way). Complete emotional detachment is probably the best way forward but I guess that's difficult when you're a fan of a player.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:mthierry is perhaps at the stage of evolution we all will hopefully reach as posters on a forum (I mean it in a good way). Complete emotional detachment is probably the best way forward but I guess that's difficult when you're a fan of a player.

I would disagree, calling a forum pathetic while posting in it is a little pathetic in itself

mthierry wrote:

This forum is really pathetic.

LOL! Yes. It;s a tennis forum. What do you expect when their sport has been pirated by a WWF figure.

Tenez wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:

mthierry wrote:Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

Please don't I'll be happy soon...by Sunday midday actually!

That's the spirit! Maybe you should learn to actually enjoy the sport more. I've liked Rafa since I first saw him despite the tics and rituals and grunting and El Pirata looks but I've never been so bitter even when Nole beats him consistently. I guess I actually enjoy the sport and can never be viscerally invested enough in a player to dislike or hate or consistently deride others. It's just not worth my time.

I think you should try it more often.

It's because I love tennis and am no fanboy like you that I cannot appreciate to see the greatest talent tennis has ever had to play the Russian roulette on every shot cause a player who typically gets bagelled running out of breath in a 2 setter outside slams suddenly finds the form of his life in teh next slam as many of us predicted 2 months ago.

I would say, it's not funny anymore.

However I do enjoy watching Nadal play against other players who can sustain a rally with him witout having to go for broke on every shot. However seeing Nadal cramping in the 4th set of that USO final and walk like he had he had an umbrella squeesed between his legs cause the lactic acid coudl not be evacuated on time, was as beautiful as Federer's DTL SHBH.

Tenez, please don't ever call anyone a fanboy cos you make a serious caricature of yourself when you can't see through the irony - irony being that you exhibit every trait of a fanboy including your amusing indignation at today's result.

You make it sound like supporting Roger is some mark of a connoiseur of the game which is hilarious considering any glory hunter could easily support Fed.

I find Nadal's game compelling but respect the opinions of those who don't think so except the insufferable self-styled purists like yourself who make it a point to suffocate this forum with your bile and bitterness.

You seriously do need to grow up.

reckoner wrote:

break_in_the_fifth wrote:mthierry is perhaps at the stage of evolution we all will hopefully reach as posters on a forum (I mean it in a good way). Complete emotional detachment is probably the best way forward but I guess that's difficult when you're a fan of a player.

I would disagree, calling a forum pathetic while posting in it is a little pathetic in itself

Well how else would he let the forum know it's pathetic. He's just lost patience with where we're all at, having less of a vested interest in players seems to be the way forward especially when the game isn't going out of it's way to do us any favours in terms of desirable results.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:

reckoner wrote:

break_in_the_fifth wrote:mthierry is perhaps at the stage of evolution we all will hopefully reach as posters on a forum (I mean it in a good way). Complete emotional detachment is probably the best way forward but I guess that's difficult when you're a fan of a player.

I would disagree, calling a forum pathetic while posting in it is a little pathetic in itself

Well how else would he let the forum know it's pathetic. He's just lost patience with where we're all at, having less of a vested interest in players seems to be the way forward especially when the game isn't going out of it's way to do us any favours in terms of desirable results.

... by refraining from posting or casting insults?

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:

mthierry wrote:Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

Please don't I'll be happy soon...by Sunday midday actually!

That's the spirit! Maybe you should learn to actually enjoy the sport more. I've liked Rafa since I first saw him despite the tics and rituals and grunting and El Pirata looks but I've never been so bitter even when Nole beats him consistently. I guess I actually enjoy the sport and can never be viscerally invested enough in a player to dislike or hate or consistently deride others. It's just not worth my time.

I think you should try it more often.

It's because I love tennis and am no fanboy like you that I cannot appreciate to see the greatest talent tennis has ever had to play the Russian roulette on every shot cause a player who typically gets bagelled running out of breath in a 2 setter outside slams suddenly finds the form of his life in teh next slam as many of us predicted 2 months ago.

I would say, it's not funny anymore.

However I do enjoy watching Nadal play against other players who can sustain a rally with him witout having to go for broke on every shot. However seeing Nadal cramping in the 4th set of that USO final and walk like he had he had an umbrella squeesed between his legs cause the lactic acid coudl not be evacuated on time, was as beautiful as Federer's DTL SHBH.

Tenez, please don't ever call anyone a fanboy cos you make a serious caricature of yourself when you can't see through the irony - irony being that you exhibit every trait of a fanboy including your amusing indignation at today's result.

You make it sound like supporting Roger is some mark of a connoiseur of the game which is hilarious considering any glory hunter could easily support Fed.

I find Nadal's game compelling but respect the opinions of those who don't think so except the insufferable self-styled purists like yourself who make it a point to suffocate this forum with your bile and bitterness.

You seriously do need to grow up.

sportslover wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:

mthierry wrote:

Tenez wrote:

mthierry wrote:Your emoticon fools no one. I actually felt sorry at your palpable bitterness after this match.

Please don't I'll be happy soon...by Sunday midday actually!

That's the spirit! Maybe you should learn to actually enjoy the sport more. I've liked Rafa since I first saw him despite the tics and rituals and grunting and El Pirata looks but I've never been so bitter even when Nole beats him consistently. I guess I actually enjoy the sport and can never be viscerally invested enough in a player to dislike or hate or consistently deride others. It's just not worth my time.

I think you should try it more often.

It's because I love tennis and am no fanboy like you that I cannot appreciate to see the greatest talent tennis has ever had to play the Russian roulette on every shot cause a player who typically gets bagelled running out of breath in a 2 setter outside slams suddenly finds the form of his life in teh next slam as many of us predicted 2 months ago.

I would say, it's not funny anymore.

However I do enjoy watching Nadal play against other players who can sustain a rally with him witout having to go for broke on every shot. However seeing Nadal cramping in the 4th set of that USO final and walk like he had he had an umbrella squeesed between his legs cause the lactic acid coudl not be evacuated on time, was as beautiful as Federer's DTL SHBH.

Tenez, please don't ever call anyone a fanboy cos you make a serious caricature of yourself when you can't see through the irony - irony being that you exhibit every trait of a fanboy including your amusing indignation at today's result.

You make it sound like supporting Roger is some mark of a connoiseur of the game which is hilarious considering any glory hunter could easily support Fed.

I find Nadal's game compelling but respect the opinions of those who don't think so except the insufferable self-styled purists like yourself who make it a point to suffocate this forum with your bile and bitterness.

You seriously do need to grow up.

There are plenty of posters who devotedly back their player / wind up their opponents. Bit unfair of you two to single out Tenez.

It's just that I make sense when I address Nadal. That's what they don't like.

Oh and for Sportlover, it;s a bit different, he alsways comes here when there is a bit of arguing, gets burned but comes back to support those ready to face me.

He is like a little brother hiding behind his big brother telling him where to punch.

Have fun SL!

Tenez wrote:It's just that I make sense when I address Nadal. That's what they don't like.

Oh and for Sportlover, it;s a bit different, he alsways comes here when there is a bit of arguing, gets burned but comes back to support those ready to face me.

He is like a little brother hiding behind his big brother telling him where to punch.

Have fun SL!

Oh, do they always behave like this?

This is a public forum where everybody is allowed to express an opinion so long as it does not break the house rules. If that is difficult for some to stomach then perhaps they should join a fan forum or just not bother posting at all.

In life there are always people that you may not get on with or who's views are antithetical to your own. It is better to debate the points or move on and engage with another thread or poster. Throwing the toys out of the pram is not a solution.



emancipator - wise one from the ancient times

Tenez wrote:It's just that I make sense when I address Nadal. That's what they don't like.

Oh and for Sportlover, it;s a bit different, he alsways comes here when there is a bit of arguing, gets burned but comes back to support those ready to face me.

He is like a little brother hiding behind his big brother telling him where to punch.

Have fun SL!

If I had to join the Q of those wanting to punch you there would be a lot of people in front of me!

And not just those from the previous two sites which you have been banned from.

Don't know if some of the " newbies" are aware of that however.

I miss "AIR"

Even Murray has more chance against Nadal at grandslam level than the 16 time GOAT has had, it leaves one a bit perplexed at the state and future of tennis after the king retires.

sportslover wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's just that I make sense when I address Nadal. That's what they don't like.

Oh and for Sportlover, it;s a bit different, he alsways comes here when there is a bit of arguing, gets burned but comes back to support those ready to face me.

He is like a little brother hiding behind his big brother telling him where to punch.

Have fun SL!

If I had to join the Q of those wanting to punch you there would be a lot of people in front of me!

And not just those from the previous two sites which you have been banned from.

Don't know if some of the " newbies" are aware of that however.

isn't that a bit of a bullying tone? it's only a tennis forum, why get so aggressive and personal?!

I'm sure if you and Tenez actually met you'd have a whale of a time discussing tennis in a pub somewhere, boring all the non tennis fans around you senseless!

sportslover wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's just that I make sense when I address Nadal. That's what they don't like.

Oh and for Sportlover, it;s a bit different, he alsways comes here when there is a bit of arguing, gets burned but comes back to support those ready to face me.

He is like a little brother hiding behind his big brother telling him where to punch.

Have fun SL!

If I had to join the Q of those wanting to punch you there would be a lot of people in front of me!

And not just those from the previous two sites which you have been banned from.

Don't know if some of the " newbies" are aware of that however.

I certainly don't agree with tenez on a lot of things and he is good @ going on and on about Nadal but he by no means is the worst. His tone is rarely condescending (if ever), he is mostly polite (not always) and while his idea of 'evidence' is debatable to the rest of us (actually, rather dubious to be honest!), he does @ least attempt to provide what he thinks is evidence, compared to others who just assert things and occasionally lace it with evidence (if they can be bothered). Other posters are also just as guilty of selectively picking the evidence that suits them as much as he is (on occasions).

The best thing is not to engage in futile debates about physicality/lungs, we all know tenez's position, why so many posters engage in that debate is beyond me, I never do.

reckoner wrote:

sportslover wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's just that I make sense when I address Nadal. That's what they don't like.

Oh and for Sportlover, it;s a bit different, he alsways comes here when there is a bit of arguing, gets burned but comes back to support those ready to face me.

He is like a little brother hiding behind his big brother telling him where to punch.

Have fun SL!

If I had to join the Q of those wanting to punch you there would be a lot of people in front of me!

And not just those from the previous two sites which you have been banned from.

Don't know if some of the " newbies" are aware of that however.

isn't that a bit of a bullying tone? it's only a tennis forum, why get so aggressive and personal?!

I'm sure if you and Tenez actually met you'd have a whale of a time discussing tennis in a pub somewhere, boring all the non tennis fans around you senseless!

Tenez doesn't need to go to a pub - he already does it on this forum.

Just ask those that are not disciples of Federer.

sportslover wrote:

reckoner wrote:

sportslover wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's just that I make sense when I address Nadal. That's what they don't like.

Oh and for Sportlover, it;s a bit different, he alsways comes here when there is a bit of arguing, gets burned but comes back to support those ready to face me.

He is like a little brother hiding behind his big brother telling him where to punch.

Have fun SL!

If I had to join the Q of those wanting to punch you there would be a lot of people in front of me!

And not just those from the previous two sites which you have been banned from.

Don't know if some of the " newbies" are aware of that however.

isn't that a bit of a bullying tone? it's only a tennis forum, why get so aggressive and personal?!

I'm sure if you and Tenez actually met you'd have a whale of a time discussing tennis in a pub somewhere, boring all the non tennis fans around you senseless!

Tenez doesn't need to go to a pub - he already does it on this forum.

Just ask those that are not disciples of Federer.

OK clearly you guys have history, but hey maybe you could just be peaceful with each other. Even if you strongly disagree.

I don't wish to worsen the situation, so will leave you to it, have a nice evening.

luciusmann wrote:
The best thing is not to engage in futile debates about physicality/lungs, we all know tenez's position, why so many posters engage in that debate is beyond me, I never do.

After what you saw earlier today on the court you still think those debates about physique and lungsare futile???

Lucius...Do you really think the problem is in the mind?

It's futile in the sense that none of those who engage in it will agree. It would be far more sensible to agree to disagree.

From what Fed's said (I quoted him earlier) and the fact Nadal has a clear plan (as he says in his biography) yes, mental. It doesn't really matter how good Nadal's plan is to be honest, it doesn't even need to be really good but the key is that he executes it superbly and that rattles Federer because he doesn't know how to reply. Hitting better shots will win Federer a few battles during the match, but as we seen today, we know who won the war.

luciusmann wrote:It's futile in the sense that none of those who engage in it will agree. It would be far more sensible to agree to disagree.

From what Fed's said (I quoted him earlier) and the fact Nadal has a clear plan (as he says in his biography) yes, mental. It doesn't really matter how good Nadal's plan is to be honest, it doesn't even need to be really good but the key is that he executes it superbly and that rattles Federer because he doesn't know how to reply. Hitting better shots will win Federer a few battles during the match, but as we seen today, we know who won the war.

Sad but true. He would have to break down his game and come up with a simple plan of his own and has probably left it too late to do so. He needs to go in and find a way to do ANYTHING to win. Pull a Fernando Gonzalez and start arguing with himself. Argue about the time Nadal is taking. Disrupt his rhythm, annoy him, use a dbh, vary where he stands to receive serves break a racquet, kick Rafa's bottles over (my fave!!) whatever. All the stuff that he's too classy to do.

As Wilander put it, it seems like to Federer this match is worth a lollipop...

But hey - it is all gravy for Federer from now on (actually it has been for a while now), so if he somehow finds a way to do it a couple of times I'll be delighted for him, but it's not that significant to me in the greater scheme of things. I still enjoy watching the guy play!