Nadal's Greatest Challange

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For once during the match yesterday i had a belief Nadal might just be starting to turn his recent woes against Djokovic even if it wasn't for yesterdays match. Congratulations first to Djokovic for a great victory, he is one of the greatest players ever and for me easily the greatest player i have seen in his peak. The boy is amazingly good. His return of Nadal's serves yesterday was a sight to behold and i'm sorry he is just the best returner of servers in the history of the sport. A great champion he has become and at this rate, he might end up with 7 slams by year end.

For Nadal, he played a great match, was average from the middle of the 2nd set to the 4th but recovered well and contributed to a great spectacle. Had his chances but that's never good enough in pro sport where the finals verdict is : Win or Loss. This time though, he could take positives from this defeat than before and from the press conference, he sounded he is about to get better against Djokovic. He was outplayed at Wimbledon but since USO he has been getting better and we await curiously to see how far he will have to adjust to his new racquet and changes in February. Djokovic's quick rise still comes in a very short time, getting to almost a year and with tournaments during the season, it was always going to be hard to make changes to counter him but they were notable ones yesterday. He added more slice to his shots and the DTL backhand and forehand to unsettle Djokovic's rhythm which worked well. His serve needs improving and his return of serve was poor yesterday, one of the factor in my opinion why he lost. I thought both players were even on the baseline battles yesterday which was an improvement for Nadal this time compared to meetings prior to USO final.

Djokovic simply has become Nadal's greatest challenge and make no mistake, his greatness will be defined in the context of his meetings against Djokovic just as Federer's will be against his main rivals and there is no sugar coating this. For Nadal, the head to head recently is 7-0 but still he has the 16-14 lead, the slightest. The slam finals head to head is 3-1 to Djokovic but Nadal still leads 5-3 in slam meetings so not bad at the moment but he will have to find a way to rise to this challenge. You just cannot be the Greatest Ever when you don't dominate your main rivals. Nadal has Djokovic alone to worry about but Federer unfortunately has both Nadal and Djokovic, even Murray to worry about on his record. Seeing this match yesterday, i just thought one thing, if you put Djokovic, Nadal, Federer all at peak in the same career, the Swiss will struggle to win a slam. These two have taken tennis to an even better level. Djokovic and Nadal are bringing out the best tennis from each other and that is good. Nadal could simply get worse anytime he plays Djokovic like Federer is when he plays Nadal but he is getting better and it's going to be an interesting year full of suprises.

Julius how do you know i don't care about Nadal of course i am a fan but does not hide the fact Djokovic is dominating him. It's not hard to admit as i like Djokovic. He plays the kind of tennis i enjoy watching. Can attack and defend well. Returns serve like a God and has essentially no weaknesses. Could have been a worse case of Nadal losing to Federer, that will be a worry giving the Swiss' poor technique at the backhand and laughable volleying. All we need is Murray to join the party in beating Federer in slams and he would have been owned by 3 of his main rivals and ending up witg negative head to head against them.

Simple_Analyst wrote:Julius how do you know i don't care about Nadal of course i am a fan but does not hide the fact Djokovic is dominating him. It's not hard to admit as i like Djokovic. He plays the kind of tennis i enjou watching. Can attack and defend well. Returns serve like a God and has essentially no weaknesses. Could have been Nadal losing to Federer, that will be a worry giving the Swiss' poor technique at the backhand and laughable volleying.

You have "hidden" bigger facts than that.



The poor swiss technique is hurtig Federer much more than Nadal. Is that a fact difficult for you to admit?

hmmmmm

Murray got Djokovic dead on his feet and still Nadal's best efforts was not enough to get the job done.

Its looking more and more likely that Nadull's best days are behind him, some younger phenoms will start owning him at this stage of his career like Nadull was fortunate to achieve over the swiss.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:hmmmmm

Murray got Djokovic dead on his feet and still Nadal's best efforts was not enough to get the job done.

Its looking more and more likely that Nadull's best days are behind him, some younger phenoms will start owning him at this stage of his career like Nadull was fortunate to achieve over the swiss.

Sad. Murray just needs to toughen up a bit and he'll do to Nadal what Djokovic does; essentially their game plan can be very similar against him - taunt the backhand and then flash a short wide one to the forhand side and watch him run like crazy to scoop it into the crowd.

Rinse and repeat.

bogbrush wrote:
Sad. Murray just needs to toughen up a bit and he'll do to Nadal what Djokovic does; essentially their game plan can be very similar against him - taunt the backhand and then flash a short wide one to the forhand side and watch him run like crazy to scoop it into the crowd.

Rinse and repeat.

It works the other way around - shove em out wide to the forehand and watch Nadal race back to cover the possibility of a backhand, although you run the risk of a dtl stinker if you don't execute very well.

I must say that Murray doesn't have that key FH Djoko has. But I agree that Murray could certainly beat Nadal now cause Djoko actually doesn't need to play particularly well to play Nadal. Murray can also use the same tactics....but would need a bit more running.

The final was most of the time like the game of a cat with mouse. Nadal did not show how to outplay Novak. There could be only problem of a low concentration, which fortunately was not the case. Nadull position on the return is a disaster and playing often sliced BH can only make a match longer, no way.
I do think that Murray will also beat Nadull this year and replace him on 2nd position soon.

paulcz wrote:
I do think that Murray will also beat Nadull this year and replace him on 2nd position soon.

Yes I also think Ljubicic will beat Djokovic this year and replace him on 1st position soon.

amritia3ee wrote:

paulcz wrote:
I do think that Murray will also beat Nadull this year and replace him on 2nd position soon.

Yes I also think Ljubicic will beat Djokovic this year and replace him on 1st position soon.

Unfortunately Ivo does not have such stamina as Novak

Murray does not have as much stamina as Nadal

or maybe not

I am convinced that Ivan will teach Murray to find enough stamina to beat Nadal

You mean:
'I am hoping that Ivan will teach Murray to find enough stamina to beat Nadal

I meant, if Murray wants to be coached by Ivan long, then he needs to find a way how to get enough stamina to beat Nadal There is no other way than to beat Nadal anyhow.

Anyone who calls Nadal "Nadull" is way too biased to be trusted to give any sort of rational analysis...

Just put the highlights on Eurosport.

I am struck by how lean Nadal is. He used to be much more 'rounded'. I think this Is the fittest he's ever been.

bogbrush wrote:Just put the highlights on Eurosport.

I am struck by how lean Nadal is. He used to be much more 'rounded'. I think this Is the fittest he's ever been.

This is what I was telling you in the other thread. Even when he closes his eyes, there is a kind of a cave between his eyelid and eyebrow. Not sure how to explain it ....but he is extremely lean with huge arms.

bogbrush wrote:Just put the highlights on Eurosport.

I am struck by how lean Nadal is. He used to be much more 'rounded'. I think this Is the fittest he's ever been.

He should thank to Novak to help him to look so lean

Simple_Analyst wrote:For once during the match yesterday i had a belief Nadal might just be starting to turn his recent woes against Djokovic even if it wasn't for yesterdays match. Congratulations first to Djokovic for a great victory, he is one of the greatest players ever and for me easily the greatest player i have seen in his peak. The boy is amazingly good. His return of Nadal's serves yesterday was a sight to behold and i'm sorry he is just the best returner of servers in the history of the sport. A great champion he has become and at this rate, he might end up with 7 slams by year end.

For Nadal, he played a great match, was average from the middle of the 2nd set to the 4th but recovered well and contributed to a great spectacle. Had his chances but that's never good enough in pro sport where the finals verdict is : Win or Loss. This time though, he could take positives from this defeat than before and from the press conference, he sounded he is about to get better against Djokovic. He was outplayed at Wimbledon but since USO he has been getting better and we await curiously to see how far he will have to adjust to his new racquet and changes in February. Djokovic's quick rise still comes in a very short time, getting to almost a year and with tournaments during the season, it was always going to be hard to make changes to counter him but they were notable ones yesterday. He added more slice to his shots and the DTL backhand and forehand to unsettle Djokovic's rhythm which worked well. His serve needs improving and his return of serve was poor yesterday, one of the factor in my opinion why he lost. I thought both players were even on the baseline battles yesterday which was an improvement for Nadal this time compared to meetings prior to USO final.

Djokovic simply has become Nadal's greatest challenge and make no mistake, his greatness will be defined in the context of his meetings against Djokovic just as Federer's will be against his main rivals and there is no sugar coating this. For Nadal, the head to head recently is 7-0 but still he has the 16-14 lead, the slightest. The slam finals head to head is 3-1 to Djokovic but Nadal still leads 5-3 in slam meetings so not bad at the moment but he will have to find a way to rise to this challenge. You just cannot be the Greatest Ever when you don't dominate your main rivals. Nadal has Djokovic alone to worry about but Federer unfortunately has both Nadal and Djokovic, even Murray to worry about on his record. Seeing this match yesterday, i just thought one thing, if you put Djokovic, Nadal, Federer all at peak in the same career, the Swiss will struggle to win a slam. These two have taken tennis to an even better level. Djokovic and Nadal are bringing out the best tennis from each other and that is good. Nadal could simply get worse anytime he plays Djokovic like Federer is when he plays Nadal but he is getting better and it's going to be an interesting year full of suprises.

and you don't think if Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murrya were all the same age, that Federer would be have learned his style like the double handed backhand to better face the modern game. I love how you Nadal nuts want to compare apples to oranges. Could Laver hang with these guys? Sampras on these slow surfaces? It's not the same. If all are the same age, all of the same era- then the talent would be the same, but the styles ect would evolve to be current. Federer set a bar just like those before him, and the current players have studied it, figured out the pros and cons to it, and have evolved... while it's too late for Federer to evolve into a grinding game with two handed backhand to play on these painfully slow surfaces. The fact Federer is still this good at 30, amidst the evolved game -only tells you that prime to prime- he would have been jsut as dominant.
It's like some of you guys have no sense and no tennis knowledge.

Learn what skills? He was losing to Nadal since the Spaniard was 17. Losing to Murray when he was 18 and to Djokovic since he was barely 19. You think that is a coincidence? He lacks basic techniques on the backhand side, a two handed backhand won't even do him any good. Haven't you seen the SHB of Ljubicic, Gasquet, Almagro, Wawrinka etc?

Yawnnn

I am sure you know Federer tanked that first match v Nadal, don;t you? He had just won IW easily and convincingly. Got a bit of a flue on his way to Miami.

Struggles to beat Davydenko in 3 sets in the first round despite Davy being number 55 or so at the time....and gladly gives Nadal a win so he can get a break. You also know that Nadal at 17 got lessoned by Callieri in IW a week before and got lessoned by Gonzo a round or 2 later after.

How do you explain that Nadal at 17 could beat Federer but at 18 actually lost his match in the same tournament. You remember that tournement? The last one that Nadal played within the 20s rule which he lost asphyxiated losing the last 6 games in a row.

I thought I did mention that in the past.

Let us also do one for Murray at 18, Cincinatti and Djokovic barely 19, Toronto. I await the amusing response.

I guess that proves Murray is much better than Federer too. I mean, look at their Slam records since then.

Or it doesn't and suggests Federer threw the odd match to kids when it suited him.

Another moment for Simple.

2 different cases.

Murray...yes he tanked it too. Very similar to Nadal's first loss. Just won Montreal as usual and wanted to rest before the USO so steps out in the second round (shoudl have lost in the first actually)...and like Nadal, Murray falls a round or 2 later.

Djokovic - That is certainly not tanking. It's the final if I remember correctly and a very close one. Djokovic is already setting his mark on US HC. Fed throws away 3 set points if I remember...but got those back at the USO...when it really mattered.

Isn;t that a correct analysis? Besides teh fact it doesn;t suit your agenda?

So tanked 2 and choked 1, sounds like Federer to me.

But sloopy from the Swiss though, the 2 players he tanked the 2 against, 1 have gone on to own him in their future meetings and the other also heaving a head to head lead against him. Perhaps he could should have tannked the matches a round earlier? Poor Roddick, Ljubicic, Davydenko etc, Federer wasn't as kind as he was to Nadal and Murray.

Tenez wrote:2 different cases.

Murray...yes he tanked it too.

Yes Federer has tanked every match he has lost. Good logic.

One thing we can say for sure, Nadal didnt tank any of these last 7 finals.

He just got beat like a dog in them all.

Just his bad luck Djokovic stopped having content lens trouble

bogbrush wrote:

Just his bad luck Djokovic stopped having content lens trouble

Maybe he learned how to spell contact lens properly.

bogbrush wrote:

He just got beat like a dog in them all.

Yes was absolutely thrashed last Sunday. Only won 4 games, embarrassing for a Grand Slam final.

Nah he just learned how to keep pace in the footwork department, don't exactly need much in the way of skills to douse the flames of Rafa!

Someone said that what happened when Davy met Nadal in a slam. Well the answer is never. Davy has beaten nadal everytime they have met off clay. It could be termed as nadal's good fortune only that Davy failed to cross his path in most of the slams when he was playing good tennis.

It is Nadal's good fortune only that he does not have to overcome that challenge.