Thoughts
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
Page 1 of 1
Thoughts
The recent comments by Sir Clive Woodward,Sir Graham Henry,and Chris Rattue about England etc. has prompted me to write this.
When SCW or SGH speak they have the authority of being THE most successful Coaches in the Game over a 7 year period and RWC
winners.You listen they talk form on high,Chris Rattue speaks of the top of his head and is just being provocative trying to stir it.
ALL teams have highs and lows,some that go on for decades,AFTER the abolishment of the 2-3-2 Scrum,in the 1930`s the All Blacks
adopted the Bok 3-4-1 Scrum without learning the dynamics of it.
For the period 1935-49 the All Blacks effectively had no Scrum,they lost 3 Series in this time that was a major factor[lineouts could be taken for Scrums then].Only due to the generosity of Dr Danie Craven with the assitance of BO Wintle was it fixed,also about this time 1947?
The Cavanaghs Jr.and Snr.evolved the Classic RUCK[a loose 2-3-2 scrum]all the ploys of the original 2-3-2 Scrum worked form 1950-65
The All Blacks lost a single series that narrowly to the Boks[2-1-1]1960 by Forward power,backs tackled and kicked,in 1966 the laws
changed.Sir Feddie Allen adapted his Game plan accordingly,forwards won the ball,backs run it he had an unbeaten record all games
over 3 years.
BUT 1969 the Laws changed again,the NH had taken to Coaching in a big way,The All Blacks methods had been overtaken. Carwyn James
and others lead the way 1970`s was a dark age for the AllBlacks.Losses to Lions 1971,Boks 1970,1976,should have lost to the Lions 1977.
Since then there troughs have been relatively few,1991,1998 when old players exited,and 2009 when injuries and failure to adapt put them
and Coaches under pressure.
It took Woodward and Henry 7 years to build RWC`winning sides,and they lost one along the way,Henry after 2004 only had one bad year 2009
and that evened itself out.
You build your team around what you have at any level,a Power Pack,a great Goal kicker,or an average pack and running backs AllBlacks[Don Clarke Era]or [Carlos Spencer era] or in between[Merthens/Fox/Carter era].
England had good backs in many eras and average packs by SH standards,or Good ones by NH standards,Andrew was preferred over Barnes who was more of a runner,Carling.Not to mention the era when ALL NH sides had running backs,like Sharp,risman,Butterfield,Morgan,Brace,Ken Jones, O`reilly,Hewitt etc.
WHAT England Coach has had a chance to build a team post SCW,Robinson and Ashton,maybe even Johnson had better win /loss stats over
there period of office.Up to there dismissal than Sir Clive.
Do you judge a team on ALL results,Championships or Matches won or RCW results,IF the latter there are a hell of a lot of failures out there.!!!
There will be tinkering with the laws around Breakdown and Scrums at least,and TMO plus Refs reporting foul Play will also make a difference.
IF Ashton in particular had been able to work with Johnson and the others over a similar period to Sir Clive,then we may have seen the REAl England.
The large number of overseas players at Club level does`nt help and National Coaches don`t have the influence over Club/Provincial sides the SH do.
Most of the S15 sides play in the style of there national test sides.
When SCW or SGH speak they have the authority of being THE most successful Coaches in the Game over a 7 year period and RWC
winners.You listen they talk form on high,Chris Rattue speaks of the top of his head and is just being provocative trying to stir it.
ALL teams have highs and lows,some that go on for decades,AFTER the abolishment of the 2-3-2 Scrum,in the 1930`s the All Blacks
adopted the Bok 3-4-1 Scrum without learning the dynamics of it.
For the period 1935-49 the All Blacks effectively had no Scrum,they lost 3 Series in this time that was a major factor[lineouts could be taken for Scrums then].Only due to the generosity of Dr Danie Craven with the assitance of BO Wintle was it fixed,also about this time 1947?
The Cavanaghs Jr.and Snr.evolved the Classic RUCK[a loose 2-3-2 scrum]all the ploys of the original 2-3-2 Scrum worked form 1950-65
The All Blacks lost a single series that narrowly to the Boks[2-1-1]1960 by Forward power,backs tackled and kicked,in 1966 the laws
changed.Sir Feddie Allen adapted his Game plan accordingly,forwards won the ball,backs run it he had an unbeaten record all games
over 3 years.
BUT 1969 the Laws changed again,the NH had taken to Coaching in a big way,The All Blacks methods had been overtaken. Carwyn James
and others lead the way 1970`s was a dark age for the AllBlacks.Losses to Lions 1971,Boks 1970,1976,should have lost to the Lions 1977.
Since then there troughs have been relatively few,1991,1998 when old players exited,and 2009 when injuries and failure to adapt put them
and Coaches under pressure.
It took Woodward and Henry 7 years to build RWC`winning sides,and they lost one along the way,Henry after 2004 only had one bad year 2009
and that evened itself out.
You build your team around what you have at any level,a Power Pack,a great Goal kicker,or an average pack and running backs AllBlacks[Don Clarke Era]or [Carlos Spencer era] or in between[Merthens/Fox/Carter era].
England had good backs in many eras and average packs by SH standards,or Good ones by NH standards,Andrew was preferred over Barnes who was more of a runner,Carling.Not to mention the era when ALL NH sides had running backs,like Sharp,risman,Butterfield,Morgan,Brace,Ken Jones, O`reilly,Hewitt etc.
WHAT England Coach has had a chance to build a team post SCW,Robinson and Ashton,maybe even Johnson had better win /loss stats over
there period of office.Up to there dismissal than Sir Clive.
Do you judge a team on ALL results,Championships or Matches won or RCW results,IF the latter there are a hell of a lot of failures out there.!!!
There will be tinkering with the laws around Breakdown and Scrums at least,and TMO plus Refs reporting foul Play will also make a difference.
IF Ashton in particular had been able to work with Johnson and the others over a similar period to Sir Clive,then we may have seen the REAl England.
The large number of overseas players at Club level does`nt help and National Coaches don`t have the influence over Club/Provincial sides the SH do.
Most of the S15 sides play in the style of there national test sides.
emack2- Posts : 3686
Join date : 2011-04-01
Age : 81
Location : Bournemouth
Similar topics
» The Weekend Pre Six Nations 2012 Previews are out...! What are your thoughts on their thoughts...?
» Thoughts on the 4Ns
» Thoughts
» Some thoughts
» Thoughts 2 on the 4Ns
» Thoughts on the 4Ns
» Thoughts
» Some thoughts
» Thoughts 2 on the 4Ns
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
Page 1 of 1
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum