How often does a "freak" rugby player come around?

By 'freak' I mean someone who offers so many varied skill sets and plays in such a unique way that in all likelyhood you wouldn't see a player like that again for a generation or maybe ever.

I want to talk about home nations players. We have had some great world class world cup winning players like Wilkinson and Dallaglio, but I want to talk about the likes of BOD and Shane Williams.

Imagine if those 2 had played for England in 2003? It would have been an even more emphatic world cup. Those players to me are unique and irreplaceable because they seem to pop up anywhere on the rugby pitch and perform moves and tricks that other players simply wouldn't even attempt or be able to do.

The past 11 years watch those two on the international stage has been a joy, sometimes almost as exciting as the match itself. Whenever there would be a Wales match or an Ireland match people would say, "I wonder how BOD or Shane will play" etc etc...

Even though Ireland and Wales have pretty strong squads at the moment, the future will not be the same. Obviously Williams is already gone and I don't know how much longer BOD wants to or can play for Ireland. In all honesty I have not seen any other players on the international pitch appear in as many ridiculous or varied positions as those two and pick up tries that way.

My main question is: Is there anyone in the pipeline at the moment for any of the home nations that you think may turn out like one of these two?

For me a freak player is someone who does't have an equal anywhere in the world.

And sorry to say but neither O'Driscoll or Williams were undoubtedly the best of their generation.

I'd argue BOD was a freak to be honest. Pace, vision (not bad seeming as he is almost blind, think he can only see about 10 yards ahead of him or something stupid), skill in attack, with some moments of genius. A talismanic leader with an incredible discipline. He has an amazing try scoring record, even moreso for a centre, probably unmatched I would imagine and against modern organised defences with full time defence coaches. He played equally well in the small and big games, with huge contributions in the 6 Nations and 2 Lions tours, with being cruelly robbed of a third, when in his absolute prime. Add to all this his defensive work, there isn't a back in world rugby as good as him at ruck time, the way he fought and stayed on his feet to secure or steal the ball was like an extra flanker.

All this from an Englishman, so no bias.

biltongbek wrote:For me a freak player is someone who does't have an equal anywhere in the world.

And sorry to say but neither O'Driscoll or Williams were undoubtedly the best of their generation.

Sorry I don't understand what you're saying there can you rephrase please?

BOD - definately class and the best in his generation.
S.Williams - No, would always be 2nd fiddle to a Mr Jason Robinson

Players in the pipeline?
Greenwood and many others are raving about a kid called Joseph (Greenwood normally talks a lot of sense). I havent seen him play but I would like to.

gnollbeast wrote:

biltongbek wrote:For me a freak player is someone who does't have an equal anywhere in the world.

And sorry to say but neither O'Driscoll or Williams were undoubtedly the best of their generation.

Sorry I don't understand what you're saying there can you rephrase please?

Some of O'Driscoll and Shane Williams' greatness has come from career longevity - they've been in the top handful of players in their position for a long time over their careers, but other players have at various times matched or bettered them. It's similar to Sachin Tendulkar in cricket. Tendulkar has been one of the best batsmen in the world for most of the past 20 years, however at various times he's been shaded by a Lara or a Ponting. So for example Conrad Smith has been a better centre than BOD for the last few years, Shane Williams would have sat on the bench behind Doug Howlett and Jeff Wilson/Joe Rokocoko in the early to mid '00s.

Yeah I always wondered what happened to Rokocoko, I believe that he was physically above most other wingers at the time, but eventually other nations caught up.

gnollbeast wrote:Yeah I always wondered what happened to Rokocoko, I believe that he was physically above most other wingers at the time, but eventually other nations caught up.

A couple of injuries took the top end off his pace I think - he could still burst through tackles, but the cover defence had more of a chance.

Plus with the depth in NZ rugby there's a lot of competition for the black jersey, to hold your spot you're always having to show your best form, or the next lad will jump in. That sort of competition can be wearing on a player, and it means that often international careers can tail off. Richie McCaw is the 1st All Black to play 100 tests - most of the other major nations had had someone achieve that by 10 years ago.

Thinking about it, McCaw's another example in the BOD/Williams mould - long career, and generally in the top handful of players in his position, but at various times there's been a George Smith or a Brussow or a Pocock challenging. McCaw's probably spent more time ranked #1 in his postion than BOD or Williams, but there's not much in it.

Dan Carter possibly has more claim to the "freak" title, but that's more because he was the 1st #10 to be very good at every aspect of the modern fly-half's game. Even then, at each individual aspect you can point to another player who does it better - Carter's a good defender, but not as good as Wilkinson, a good goal kicker but not as good as Steyn or Patterson, a very good tactical kicker, but not as good as Mehrtens, a good runner but not as good as Cooper, a good passer, up there with Mehrtens and Spencer.

That for me is the thing with a true freak or great, and what england have desperatly lacked in recent years...players who are at the top of the game for their whole careers.
People bang on about Wilko but the reality is that he traded off his early career, post 2003 he was largely on a par with Dan Parks in tests. He just didnt realx for England, although he is hugley regarded at Toulon.


Williams and BOD are both players who kept on doingw hat they do, even in struggling sides (Williams), even after injuries (BOD).
Perhaps never the out and out best at any single moment, but legends of the NH. And its not down to them being physical freaks ( as Lomu was when he came onto the scene) .

For Wales i think George North, Halfpenny and/or Harry Robinson have the potential to be "freaks".
Funny how its always in the backs

Although I do think Faletau can grow into a Parisse type of player for us.

gowales, i was going to mention Faletau, he's looke the complete 8 for the dragons this season.

if he can keep up his performances like that for wales, hes certainly going to be some player.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

gnollbeast wrote:Yeah I always wondered what happened to Rokocoko, I believe that he was physically above most other wingers at the time, but eventually other nations caught up.

A couple of injuries took the top end off his pace I think - he could still burst through tackles, but the cover defence had more of a chance.

Plus with the depth in NZ rugby there's a lot of competition for the black jersey, to hold your spot you're always having to show your best form, or the next lad will jump in. That sort of competition can be wearing on a player, and it means that often international careers can tail off. Richie McCaw is the 1st All Black to play 100 tests - most of the other major nations had had someone achieve that by 10 years ago.

Thinking about it, McCaw's another example in the BOD/Williams mould - long career, and generally in the top handful of players in his position, but at various times there's been a George Smith or a Brussow or a Pocock challenging. McCaw's probably spent more time ranked #1 in his postion than BOD or Williams, but there's not much in it.

Dan Carter possibly has more claim to the "freak" title, but that's more because he was the 1st #10 to be very good at every aspect of the modern fly-half's game. Even then, at each individual aspect you can point to another player who does it better - Carter's a good defender, but not as good as Wilkinson, a good goal kicker but not as good as Steyn or Patterson, a very good tactical kicker, but not as good as Mehrtens, a good runner but not as good as Cooper, a good passer, up there with Mehrtens and Spencer.

Blimey, could you be more NZ bias? Conrad Smith is class and the best 13 in the world, but is he a freak? He does everything very well and makes it look easy, but he isn't a freak, I'd argue Nonu is more of a freak.

Man I miss Rockocoko in his prime, he was a freak, such a big bloke, but an incredible athlete. That old blues backline was pant wetting good.

Spencer
McAllister
Rockocoko
Caucau
Howlett

I'm sure i missed someone out as well.

Oh and that reminds me, surely the biggest freak of them all is Caucau?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
People bang on about Wilko but the reality is that he traded off his early career, post 2003 he was largely on a par with Dan Parks in tests. He just didnt realx for England, although he is hugley regarded at Toulon.

Thanks, that's made my day, absolutely hilarious!

I think that is the next step with Wales. Players scared to lose and scared to lose their positions.

Gatland not scared to drop anyone if they have 1 bad performance.

gnollbeast wrote:By 'freak' I mean someone who offers so many varied skill sets and plays in such a unique way that in all likelyhood you wouldn't see a player like that again for a generation or maybe ever.

I want to talk about home nations players. We have had some great world class world cup winning players like Wilkinson and Dallaglio, but I want to talk about the likes of BOD and Shane Williams.

Imagine if those 2 had played for England in 2003? It would have been an even more emphatic world cup. Those players to me are unique and irreplaceable because they seem to pop up anywhere on the rugby pitch and perform moves and tricks that other players simply wouldn't even attempt or be able to do.

The past 11 years watch those two on the international stage has been a joy, sometimes almost as exciting as the match itself. Whenever there would be a Wales match or an Ireland match people would say, "I wonder how BOD or Shane will play" etc etc...

Even though Ireland and Wales have pretty strong squads at the moment, the future will not be the same. Obviously Williams is already gone and I don't know how much longer BOD wants to or can play for Ireland. In all honesty I have not seen any other players on the international pitch appear in as many ridiculous or varied positions as those two and pick up tries that way.

My main question is: Is there anyone in the pipeline at the moment for any of the home nations that you think may turn out like one of these two?

As classy as Shane was, we had Jason Robinson who fulfilled the same role at least as well, plus could play Internationally at centre or FB too. So I'm not sure he would have started, unless we put JR at FB (but then Lewsey fulfilled that role so well...) as having 2 wingers who beat people doing the same thing wouldn't be as well balanced as having a powerful lump like Cohen opposite them. We also Greenwood who I'd say isn't that far off BOD either, though BOD has a better overall game probably. So I don't think they are good choices as freaks. Lomu, oth, or Carter are different. But I think all in all there is no way I'd drop Greenwood or Robinson for BOD or Williams in 2003

Bathite wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

gnollbeast wrote:Yeah I always wondered what happened to Rokocoko, I believe that he was physically above most other wingers at the time, but eventually other nations caught up.

A couple of injuries took the top end off his pace I think - he could still burst through tackles, but the cover defence had more of a chance.

Plus with the depth in NZ rugby there's a lot of competition for the black jersey, to hold your spot you're always having to show your best form, or the next lad will jump in. That sort of competition can be wearing on a player, and it means that often international careers can tail off. Richie McCaw is the 1st All Black to play 100 tests - most of the other major nations had had someone achieve that by 10 years ago.

Thinking about it, McCaw's another example in the BOD/Williams mould - long career, and generally in the top handful of players in his position, but at various times there's been a George Smith or a Brussow or a Pocock challenging. McCaw's probably spent more time ranked #1 in his postion than BOD or Williams, but there's not much in it.

Dan Carter possibly has more claim to the "freak" title, but that's more because he was the 1st #10 to be very good at every aspect of the modern fly-half's game. Even then, at each individual aspect you can point to another player who does it better - Carter's a good defender, but not as good as Wilkinson, a good goal kicker but not as good as Steyn or Patterson, a very good tactical kicker, but not as good as Mehrtens, a good runner but not as good as Cooper, a good passer, up there with Mehrtens and Spencer.

Blimey, could you be more NZ bias? Conrad Smith is class and the best 13 in the world, but is he a freak? He does everything very well and makes it look easy, but he isn't a freak, I'd argue Nonu is more of a freak.

Man I miss Rockocoko in his prime, he was a freak, such a big bloke, but an incredible athlete. That old blues backline was pant wetting good.

Spencer
McAllister
Rockocoko
Caucau
Howlett

I'm sure i missed someone out as well.

Oh and that reminds me, surely the biggest freak of them all is Caucau?

Yeah the fact that even when he was fat he could skin anyone probably qualifies

Bathite wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

gnollbeast wrote:Yeah I always wondered what happened to Rokocoko, I believe that he was physically above most other wingers at the time, but eventually other nations caught up.

A couple of injuries took the top end off his pace I think - he could still burst through tackles, but the cover defence had more of a chance.

Plus with the depth in NZ rugby there's a lot of competition for the black jersey, to hold your spot you're always having to show your best form, or the next lad will jump in. That sort of competition can be wearing on a player, and it means that often international careers can tail off. Richie McCaw is the 1st All Black to play 100 tests - most of the other major nations had had someone achieve that by 10 years ago.

Thinking about it, McCaw's another example in the BOD/Williams mould - long career, and generally in the top handful of players in his position, but at various times there's been a George Smith or a Brussow or a Pocock challenging. McCaw's probably spent more time ranked #1 in his postion than BOD or Williams, but there's not much in it.

Dan Carter possibly has more claim to the "freak" title, but that's more because he was the 1st #10 to be very good at every aspect of the modern fly-half's game. Even then, at each individual aspect you can point to another player who does it better - Carter's a good defender, but not as good as Wilkinson, a good goal kicker but not as good as Steyn or Patterson, a very good tactical kicker, but not as good as Mehrtens, a good runner but not as good as Cooper, a good passer, up there with Mehrtens and Spencer.

Blimey, could you be more NZ bias? Conrad Smith is class and the best 13 in the world, but is he a freak? He does everything very well and makes it look easy, but he isn't a freak, I'd argue Nonu is more of a freak.

Man I miss Rockocoko in his prime, he was a freak, such a big bloke, but an incredible athlete. That old blues backline was pant wetting good.

Spencer
McAllister
Rockocoko
Caucau
Howlett

I'm sure i missed someone out as well.

Oh and that reminds me, surely the biggest freak of them all is Caucau?

Bathite - can't see where KRD has said Conrad Smith is a freak?

Anyway, you think that backline was freakish? As a Hurricanes fan we once had:

15. Cullen
14. Umaga
13. Ieremia
12. Steinmetz
11. Lomu
10. Holwell
9. Spice

5 All Blacks and probably the best back three ever fielded in an provincial/club team.....they also all took the field for Wellington in the NPC (winners 2000). Holwell and Spice aren't big names but they complemented the centres impeccably well and Ieremia was perfect for unleashing his outside backs...

On the subject of freaks....there are two in that backline; J Lomu and C Cullen

Yeah, I still have my Cullen 'Canes shirt! I'm a bit younger so, I loved watching the years when Umaga was bringing through a young freakish centre / wing called Nonu. Knew he would be a star from the start, incredible!

"On the subject of freaks....there are two in that backline; J Lomu and C Cullen."

Lomu was definitely a freak, primarily for his power and balance - I've never seen anyone go through as many would-be tacklers.

Cullen was simply not human. Didn't look to do anything particularly spectacular in terms of footwork (certainly not in the Jason Robinson / Shane Williams mode) and at first glance looked quick but not electrifyingly fast, but somehow when he got the ball everyone else looked to be moving in slow motion and he had such a beautifully balanced running style that he would move through gaps (or half gaps) with minimal drama. I understand that the gym tests the ABs did indicated that he was phenomenally strong as well, but he rarely had to use that because defenders just couldn't get to him in an open field situation.

Pierre Spies and Victor Vito have been the biggest "freak" let downs by far.

Bathite wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

gnollbeast wrote:Yeah I always wondered what happened to Rokocoko, I believe that he was physically above most other wingers at the time, but eventually other nations caught up.

A couple of injuries took the top end off his pace I think - he could still burst through tackles, but the cover defence had more of a chance.

Plus with the depth in NZ rugby there's a lot of competition for the black jersey, to hold your spot you're always having to show your best form, or the next lad will jump in. That sort of competition can be wearing on a player, and it means that often international careers can tail off. Richie McCaw is the 1st All Black to play 100 tests - most of the other major nations had had someone achieve that by 10 years ago.

Thinking about it, McCaw's another example in the BOD/Williams mould - long career, and generally in the top handful of players in his position, but at various times there's been a George Smith or a Brussow or a Pocock challenging. McCaw's probably spent more time ranked #1 in his postion than BOD or Williams, but there's not much in it.

Dan Carter possibly has more claim to the "freak" title, but that's more because he was the 1st #10 to be very good at every aspect of the modern fly-half's game. Even then, at each individual aspect you can point to another player who does it better - Carter's a good defender, but not as good as Wilkinson, a good goal kicker but not as good as Steyn or Patterson, a very good tactical kicker, but not as good as Mehrtens, a good runner but not as good as Cooper, a good passer, up there with Mehrtens and Spencer.

Blimey, could you be more NZ bias? Conrad Smith is class and the best 13 in the world, but is he a freak? He does everything very well and makes it look easy, but he isn't a freak, I'd argue Nonu is more of a freak.

Man I miss Rockocoko in his prime, he was a freak, such a big bloke, but an incredible athlete. That old blues backline was pant wetting good.

Spencer
McAllister
Rockocoko
Caucau
Howlett

I'm sure i missed someone out as well.

Oh and that reminds me, surely the biggest freak of them all is Caucau?

I agree with you on Caucau

I wasn't trying to suggest Smith was a freak, just using him as a reason why BOD isn't a freak (career longevity aside). I argued that McCaw wasn't a freak too, and suggested Carter was close to being one.

gowales wrote:Pierre Spies and Victor Vito have been the biggest "freak" let downs by far.

Agree on Spies, especially with all the hype that goes with him and his gym statistics etc, but why Vito? Was he ever considered a potential um.. "freak"? He looked very average at the RWC. One of the most average 8s in the competition actually.

He was hyped up a lot from NZ fans. I remember him being a star in 7's and he was touted to be the next Lomu! Hes also Apparently one of the fastest runners in the Hurricanes squad.

Interesting. I remember hearing of him a lot like 3 years ago or so, but not so much in recent times. Was it a confidence thing at the RWC then? Is he normally a good ball carrier? TBH I thought he was very average in contact, and looked rather slow.

Haven't been impressed with him either TBH. For a man that is supposed to be quick and powerful he isn't very good in the contact areas. I don't think hes shined for the Hurricanes in recent times either, plenty of other NZ back rowers have outplayed him. And I don't think its a confidence thing.
He was an excellent 7s player but he doesn't seem to have the nous for the full game.

Vito has played 6 7 and 8 and for me doesn't look like a good fit for any of those to be honest. Not physical enough ball carrying for a blindside, not enough work on the deck to be a 7. Arguably his best position is 8, but didn't really have the physcial game to gain the hard yards there.

Bathite
Sounds a bit like a description of Tom Croft as well - very fast for a back row forward, but is perceived to lack the physicality of others playing in the same position.

Does Parisse count as a freak, or is that at least in part caused by the fact that he's the best player in about 5 positions for Italy (they could do with his clones in the 2nd row, blindside and in both centre positions)?

Kiwireddevil wrote:

gnollbeast wrote:Yeah I always wondered what happened to Rokocoko, I believe that he was physically above most other wingers at the time, but eventually other nations caught up.

A couple of injuries took the top end off his pace I think - he could still burst through tackles, but the cover defence had more of a chance.

Plus with the depth in NZ rugby there's a lot of competition for the black jersey, to hold your spot you're always having to show your best form, or the next lad will jump in. That sort of competition can be wearing on a player, and it means that often international careers can tail off. Richie McCaw is the 1st All Black to play 100 tests - most of the other major nations had had someone achieve that by 10 years ago.

Thinking about it, McCaw's another example in the BOD/Williams mould - long career, and generally in the top handful of players in his position, but at various times there's been a George Smith or a Brussow or a Pocock challenging. McCaw's probably spent more time ranked #1 in his postion than BOD or Williams, but there's not much in it.

Dan Carter possibly has more claim to the "freak" title, but that's more because he was the 1st #10 to be very good at every aspect of the modern fly-half's game. Even then, at each individual aspect you can point to another player who does it better - Carter's a good defender, but not as good as Wilkinson, a good goal kicker but not as good as Steyn or Patterson, a very good tactical kicker, but not as good as Mehrtens, a good runner but not as good as Cooper, a good passer, up there with Mehrtens and Spencer.

ROG is the best tactical kicker of the last few year, go away with Mehrtens!

Kiwireddevil wrote:

gnollbeast wrote:Yeah I always wondered what happened to Rokocoko, I believe that he was physically above most other wingers at the time, but eventually other nations caught up.

A couple of injuries took the top end off his pace I think - he could still burst through tackles, but the cover defence had more of a chance.

Plus with the depth in NZ rugby there's a lot of competition for the black jersey, to hold your spot you're always having to show your best form, or the next lad will jump in. That sort of competition can be wearing on a player, and it means that often international careers can tail off. Richie McCaw is the 1st All Black to play 100 tests - most of the other major nations had had someone achieve that by 10 years ago.

Thinking about it, McCaw's another example in the BOD/Williams mould - long career, and generally in the top handful of players in his position, but at various times there's been a George Smith or a Brussow or a Pocock challenging. McCaw's probably spent more time ranked #1 in his postion than BOD or Williams, but there's not much in it.

Dan Carter possibly has more claim to the "freak" title, but that's more because he was the 1st #10 to be very good at every aspect of the modern fly-half's game. Even then, at each individual aspect you can point to another player who does it better - Carter's a good defender, but not as good as Wilkinson, a good goal kicker but not as good as Steyn or Patterson, a very good tactical kicker, but not as good as Mehrtens, a good runner but not as good as Cooper, a good passer, up there with Mehrtens and Spencer.

Who's got better game management than Carter though? (genuine question, not assuming that there isn't anyone, but his is excellent)

Mayfield was a freak. Not so much physically but his psychic ability at the lineout definitely makes him a freak

Also anyone who says that Shane isn't a great of his generation should look at the ask time scoring records.

mckay1402 wrote:Also anyone who says that Shane isn't a great of his generation should look at the ask time scoring records.

Not saying that but the question mentioned imagining them playing for England in the 2003 World Cup and I am not sure Shane would have taken JR's place in the team.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

gnollbeast wrote:

biltongbek wrote:For me a freak player is someone who does't have an equal anywhere in the world.

And sorry to say but neither O'Driscoll or Williams were undoubtedly the best of their generation.

Sorry I don't understand what you're saying there can you rephrase please?

Some of O'Driscoll and Shane Williams' greatness has come from career longevity - they've been in the top handful of players in their position for a long time over their careers, but other players have at various times matched or bettered them. It's similar to Sachin Tendulkar in cricket. Tendulkar has been one of the best batsmen in the world for most of the past 20 years, however at various times he's been shaded by a Lara or a Ponting. So for example Conrad Smith has been a better centre than BOD for the last few years, Shane Williams would have sat on the bench behind Doug Howlett and Jeff Wilson/Joe Rokocoko in the early to mid '00s.

Thanks Kiwi, I wasn't available this afternoon to answer that, but you are spot on.

At his peak when Lomu came into world rugby he was a freak.

That is the only one I can truly call freakishly monsterous and deadly, go ask some Englishmen, they'll tell you what happens when you face a freak.

If you mean by freak,a player who changed the nature of the game,HennieMuller and Jonah Lomu are two.AndrewMerthens
was the best of his generation no he did`nt defend like JW.
No one did at FH for most of his era,he ticked all the boxes
otherwise [still does somewhere in France age 38]
Best of there Generation George Nepia,Bob Scott,Colin Meads
Michael Jones,arguably Ritchie McCaw,Dan Carter.
Mike Gibson was as near a genius at FH/IC,Peter Jackson at
out thinking an opponent.
Tana Umaga at wing or centre,Joe Rokococo for his early strike rate
a try a test average for the first 20 or so.

Jason Robinson for being true International class at centre, wing and FB and in two codes with a try in every 2 games and a World Cup medal?

Yes , Jason Robinson was a very talented player,but one thinks that there will always be good centres,wings and fullbacks from League making a success of it in Union.What we wont see again is a League second rower converting to Union and playing International rugby at lock for one of the top teams in the World,now that is truely "freakish"....B.Thorn....

I think longevity is the key to being a freak in the terms mentioned above. There are plenty of players over the years that have been amazing over periods of 2-3 years but to be at the top consistently at the top for a decade takes something else.
Guys have a good year or two and think they have made it. The "Freaks" never accept that they've made it. BOD, McCaw, Williams, Carter, Howlett of those in recent times have never let their standards drop.

BOD for me changed how modern centre's play they game. While maintaining a playmaker role with line breaks off loads and miss passes he became extra backrow when the going got tough and the forwards were getting pushed around. Throw in his propensity for the sheer amazing when the need was greatest and you have a freak.
McCaw - I don't know how many times over the last few years I'd watch a tri-nations and see the likes of Pocock or Brussow get the better of him, I'd start to think gees - is this the end for McCaw? But when the next game would come around McCaw would ensure that the young contender was put firmly back in his place.
Williams and Howlett are similar. As time started to affect their bodies they would adjust their game in such away that still gave them an advantage.

How many players have we seen disappear after a good season or 2 to loose all form? Or guys who look great when in the top teams but who struggle when they have to be the leader rather than the led.

Longevity - to me - is a huge part of being great. Being able to adjust your game to give you an advantage, as time takes its toll and your environment evolves. Fortunately in rugby I feel we have had quite a few, some through talent and some through sheer force of will.

My freak would be Jonah Lumu.
However it is slightly tainted because for a guy his size and ability I think he could have been the best 6 or 8 we have ever seen.

Well you get physical freaks that play rugby

Richard metcalfe 7ft 2
Andrew sheridan - super strength
Pierre Spies - crazy strength and speed for a big lump
Tom croft- speed for size
Nyenga, ...sheer straight line speed

and you get people that are freakishly good at rugby
Richie mcaw
Dan carter
sergio parisse
John eales
Johny W in his pomp
Campese

And then you get freaks that are freakishly good at rugby of which there is only one IMO

Jonah Lomu

this boy still stands out as the one and only true rugby freak ! ...his speed, his acceleration, power, sidestep...6ft 5, 19 stone with the speed of tom varndell and the sidestep of cullen. Most legends have had undoubted physical gifts but nothing that different from the average size or build for there position but have made themselves freakishly good due to training, dedication, a great rugby brain better vision.

Lomu was lazy, i've watched his video that why he never made it in the back row...he's just a freak...one of a kind, stick him on the wing, give him the ball and he'll either run over or round you...

I think Faletau is going to be an exceptional number 8 for Wales having seen his form since returning from the world cup.

IronMike wrote:I think Faletau is going to be an exceptional number 8 for Wales having seen his form since returning from the world cup.

Not a freak though!

There are some ridiculously premature calls on Faletau these days - and trust me I rate him highly. Just some of the claims I've seen about how he is one of the world's best 8s etc. Lets wait and see eh?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:There are some ridiculously premature calls on Faletau these days - and trust me I rate him highly. Just some of the claims I've seen about how he is one of the world's best 8s etc. Lets wait and see eh?

Hardly any different than some of the claims you see circulating on Ferris mind, including from a certain Mr Rory Best. Now I know he's more experienced and tested in the long term than Faletau but "world's best player"? As in best player of his time or simply best player of all time? I'm genuinely curious about this, might be missing the boat (again) but was that possibly tongue-in-cheek from Best?

In terms of a genuine freak, someone freakishly skilled who also played freakishly well most times he played, I can think of no one better than Gareth Edwards. For anyone who knows rugby, compare his speed off the breakdown to that of your average modern scrum half and...

Rava wrote:

IronMike wrote:I think Faletau is going to be an exceptional number 8 for Wales having seen his form since returning from the world cup.

Not a freak though!

Hold that thought

Knowsit17 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:There are some ridiculously premature calls on Faletau these days - and trust me I rate him highly. Just some of the claims I've seen about how he is one of the world's best 8s etc. Lets wait and see eh?

Hardly any different than some of the claims you see circulating on Ferris mind, including from a certain Mr Rory Best. Now I know he's more experienced and tested in the long term than Faletau but "world's best player"? As in best player of his time or simply best player of all time? I'm genuinely curious about this, might be missing the boat (again) but was that possibly tongue-in-cheek from Best?

..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZXbyx4BEK0 .....

You are saying it is premature to say Ferris is one of the world's best 6s?? He has been around for years now, Faletau is still a pup in rugby, still has a lot to prove. Ferris has been highly rated by the SH teams also, every time he goes down there and plays. He makes a huge impact on the field, with his massive tackles, runs, and rucking. Are you really saying it is premature to say Ferris is one of the best 6s, when he has been doing this since 2007?

How is that even remotely comparable to Faletau, who has been around since what the summer? Don't be daft man.

Hang on a sec Ferris has only being doing this since 2009. He didn't even play a game in the 07 world cup.

Has anyone here said that they think Faletau is the worlds best? no...

Right now there is no question that Ferris is one of the best 6's in the world, in fact apart from Kaino I can't think of anyone even close. Those two are miles better than anyone else right now and I do mean miles.

Rory Best is perfectly accurate in what he is saying and its great that Ferris wants to be the best on the planet. On this seasons form its a very realistic goal.

He has been playing for Ulster a lot longer than since 2009. Someone made a comment that he could be a freak just on here, and I have seen many claims he is one of the world's best 8s. Like I said I rate him highly, but hold your horses like, ridiculous to claim anything like that after one world cup..

gowales wrote:Hang on a sec Ferris has only being doing this since 2009. He didn't even play a game in the 07 world cup.

Wrong. Ferris was first capped in 2007 and nailed down a starting spot in autumn 2008. He's been a star in the Ulster back row long before that.