Khan v Ortiz: Makes sense now!

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=30644&more=1


http://www.boxingscene.com/amir-khan-victor-ortiz-an-ideal-fight-me-147--49225


With both these fighters now looking for a big fight, surely this fight makes sense right now. Kudos to Khan were he to take this , even more kudos were he to win. I think Ortiz would take it in a flash.

This fight would be awesome fair do

Both can punch but neither is tactically astute so it would make for a good tear up

Khan has the quicker hands but Ortiz hits harder so I couldnt imagine this one going the distance

Bring it on

Is it just me or is this a nightmare fight for Khan? He can't handle pressure fighters at all, and looking at the way Ortiz pressured Berto, I can't see Khan handling him. Khan only gets away with pressure guys if he's much faster (foot speed wise), but Ortiz isn't slow...and he's very, very strong.

So you got Ortiz winning this then I take it?

Have always wanted this fight and couldn't see Khan seeing the final bell.. While Ortiz obviously has his flaws I think he has the style to take Khan out. He not far off a mix of Peterson and Maidana which equals not good for Khan. No where near as wild with his punches as Maidana and hits much harder than Peterson plus he is massive.

Very interesting fight if it where to happen.

Khan which get outmuscled and bullied imo. Ortiz has showed that he is a huge puncher and a good pressure fighter. Khan struggled vs Peterson who is a light hitting LWW.

Khan would need to work on his inside game to be able to get Ortiz off him. He doesn't hit hard enoug imo to keep Ortiz at arms length. I think this is one of the worse match ups for khan to make as styles makes fights.

Khan should stay at 140 for me, Danny Garcia, Brandon Rios, JMM, Bradley, Matthysse would all sell well and be good fights. They are smaller than Ortiz and don't hit as hard (maybe Matthysse) so they should be easier.

This being said, khan has beat Ortiz before in the amateurs so might know something we don't. If Ortiz has a fault it is his defence, he has had a lot of flash knockdowns. That was at lightweight and Ortiz will come in a t fight night possibly outweighing khan by 10lbs.

Would be a great fight, does Ortiz have the heart if things don't go his way? Can Khan out box a pressure fighter? A lot of questions could be answered in this fight.

I would be excited if this fight was made, the way things have panned out most of his targets are fighting someone else. Really tough fight i would give him some respect if he took it.

What a great fight for Khans first at ww. We all know that Khan flattened Ortiz in the amateurs so it would be a promoters dream. Both fight for Golden Boy as well, so it can't be that hard to make. I'm hoping Khan fights Kell Brook, doubt it will happen though.

I would see Khan loosing this, I cant see him taking the fight either...

tunes666 wrote:I would see Khan loosing this, I cant see him taking the fight either...

I can see Khan losing as well

But why wouldnt he take the fight? He hasnt ducked anyone since joining Golden Boy

If Khan took this I'd be very impressed with him. I think Khan should definitely be commended for breaking away from being an overprotected Olympic type, to now being willing, and actively seeking, to take on big challenges.

I just think that if past form is anything to go by, Ortiz is a stylistically difficult matchup for him. Khan has a nightmare with pressure guys - every one knows it. Maidana is a crude slugger with decent footspeed, and he gave Khan some nightmare moments. Peterson was a boxer/puncher who you would never had marked as a pressure guy - but when he switched his game plan to stay on top of Khan constantly we all saw the result...a really tough night for Khan. Ortiz is more of a challenge than both Maidana and Peterson. Look at the way he fought Berto. Constant pressure, accurate inside shots, and his outside games isn't exactly slow. With less weight cutting he's huge at the weight, and seriously strong on the inside. Do you think Ortiz will play an outside jabbing game with Khan? No, he'll cut the ring off, pressure Khan, make him eat numerous inside shots, and we'll get to see Khan on his bike again.

I love watching Khan these days. He's always in these edge-of-the-seat fights because of his world class offensive qualities coupled with his world class defensive frailties. I'd like to see him take the Ortiz fight, but if anything like the Ortiz that fought Berto turns up then Khan is in serious trouble as far as I can see.

I think this is a step too far for his first fight at WW.

He should take something a little easier just to try out the waters.

I think if he doesn't rush into a big fight at WW he potentially will be at his best at this weight (compared to LW or LWW). The extra pounds will make him more sturdier and add more power to his punches. The speed should still be there.

I'll admit i would be shocked if this fight was made.

Khan would KO Ortiz. Ortiz is wide open, dodgy chin, questionably desire and very beatable. The Berto fight made him look better than he actually is. Having said that Berto is no great shakes either.

Khan's speed and Ortiz;s lack of defence will be his undoing. Khan KO in 3.

I do not know if Khan would ko Ortiz but he would be too quick for him.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:I do not know if Khan would ko Ortiz but he would be too quick for him.

I dont rate Khan highly, but his style is perfectly suited to KO'ing Ortiz.

He has beaten Ortiz already in the amatures so I give him the edge.

Saying that Taylor beat Pavlik in the amatures and got whooped in the pros.

azania wrote:Khan would KO Ortiz. Ortiz is wide open, dodgy chin, questionably desire and very beatable. The Berto fight made him look better than he actually is. Having said that Berto is no great shakes either.

Khan's speed and Ortiz;s lack of defence will be his undoing. Khan KO in 3.

Absolute tripe. I wouldn't be overly surprised if Khan won on points or late TKO but in 3 is pure nonsense. Khan will still be on his bike at this stage and who was the last decent fighter he stopped early? Doesn't have the power to take Ortiz out early. Whereas I wouldnt question Ortiz's power. You're underestimating Ortiz greatly and a lot of your comments could easily apply to Khan.

Did Duran have questionable desire? Ortiz would be a potential nightmare for Khan and at worse a tough night's work. Could see him walking through him and stopping him anytime after halfway.

paperbag_puncher wrote:

azania wrote:Khan would KO Ortiz. Ortiz is wide open, dodgy chin, questionably desire and very beatable. The Berto fight made him look better than he actually is. Having said that Berto is no great shakes either.

Khan's speed and Ortiz;s lack of defence will be his undoing. Khan KO in 3.

Absolute tripe. I wouldn't be overly surprised if Khan won on points or late TKO but in 3 is pure nonsense. Khan will still be on his bike at this stage and who was the last decent fighter he stopped early? Doesn't have the power to take Ortiz out early. Whereas I wouldnt question Ortiz's power. You're underestimating Ortiz greatly and a lot of your comments could easily apply to Khan.

Did Duran have questionable desire? Ortiz would be a potential nightmare for Khan and at worse a tough night's work. Could see him walking through him and stopping him anytime after halfway.

Tripe? And then you come ut with this nonsense. Ortiz couldn't walk a dog. Over-hyped glory boy front runner. He basically quit against Floyd. His happy smiley reaction after the fight tells its own story.

His square on stance is made to measure for Khan who would pepper him with rapid combinations and KO him. Khan isn't that good, but Ortiz is shocking.

When was the last time Khan Ko'd a decent fighter let alone in 3? Thats the tripe I'm talking about. No issue with you thinking Khan will win. But you're talking about Ortiz like he's a binman. Hes a lot better than that and has all the tools to give Khan a hard night's work. In fairness you don't exactly have to be JCC to walk down Khan. He has no pop at the highest level and moving up a weight won't help that.

Hope this fight is made. Can see Khan being a big favourite and would strongly fancy Ortiz who may be as fragile as Khan in some ways but has the punch and style to get Khan out of there. Yep not getting up after taking 2 shots cold from the best there is, is obviously quitting....

It did after all take Mayweather four rounds to knock him out and that took a couple of pot shots which were fully justified.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It did after all take Mayweather four rounds to knock him out and that took a couple of pot shots which were fully justified.

Why bother? Someone hits you when you're not expecting it and the chances are you're going down (whether it was justified or not)

Same happened against Gatti, put him down in the first after a bit on confusion but thereafter couldn't put him down despite hitting him at will.

Tough fight. A lot depends upon Ortiz's publicized mental fragility. Khan's beaten him before - that will almost certainly play on his mind - even if it shouldn't.

Ortiz at 147 has the tools and talents to dismantle Khan. Bigger punch, inside game.

Khan at 147 leaves us a few questions. Will his punches have a bit more kick at 147 than at 140? Will he be able to keep Ortiz off him? How will opponents fight Khan now they've seen Lamont Peterson's approach?

No way is this an easy fight for Khan. Khan could inflict a Pacquiao-ODLH stoppage on Ortiz - by peppering him and stopping him from getting off - for successive rounds. Doubt he could score a clean KO on Ortiz - whereas we know that Ortiz has the power to score a clean KO on Khan.

This is a fight I've been wanting to see for quite some time.

Really would be a great fight because of their styles and I'd be very impressed with Khan for taking the fight (to be fair he doesn't really duck anyone).

I could see Khan stopping Ortiz because I question whether Ortiz has the heart and temperament to push through when things aren't going his way (i.e. Maidana & Mayweather). I thought he showed it against Berto but then ballsed it all up when he fought Floyd.

But at the same time I could see Ortiz steam roller Khan. Too big & powerful.

Hope this fight can be made because it's a fantastic fight either way & I'd probably lean towards Ortiz.

Ortiz took some really solid shots from Peterson, more than khan did and wasn't hurt once. he went down from clean shots from maidana and berto, one huge puncher and one heavy handed welterweight.

Ortiz will weight in as high as 165. He will walk down khan and will throw big shots. If khan carries the weight well he may well survive, but if he continues his macho approach he will get stopped.

I can't see khan stopping Ortiz. He flaps his punches and can score a flash knockdown but not a proper stoppage

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It did after all take Mayweather four rounds to knock him out and that took a couple of pot shots which were fully justified.

knocking a guy out when he is not fighting you is justified? ... hmmmm fair enough.

tunes666 wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It did after all take Mayweather four rounds to knock him out and that took a couple of pot shots which were fully justified.

knocking a guy out when he is not fighting you is justified? ... hmmmm fair enough.

After he's deliberately headbutted you and busted your lip in doing so, yes it is justified.

paperbag_puncher wrote:When was the last time Khan Ko'd a decent fighter let alone in 3? Thats the tripe I'm talking about. No issue with you thinking Khan will win. But you're talking about Ortiz like he's a binman. Hes a lot better than that and has all the tools to give Khan a hard night's work. In fairness you don't exactly have to be JCC to walk down Khan. He has no pop at the highest level and moving up a weight won't help that.

Hope this fight is made. Can see Khan being a big favourite and would strongly fancy Ortiz who may be as fragile as Khan in some ways but has the punch and style to get Khan out of there. Yep not getting up after taking 2 shots cold from the best there is, is obviously quitting....

Styles makes fights. Ortiz doesn't display much movement. Zip head movement. He stands square on. Khan has very fast hands and is a deceptively hard puncher. Question marks hover over Ortiz's chin (as Khan's chin). Ortiz doesn't have the skill to walk down Khan. No movement. Stand and trade then he'll beat Khan no doubt. Khan wont trade withhim. Instead he'll catch him walking in. 3 rounds.

Mayweather is not a big puncher. Wasn't one at LW and definately not one at WW.

Mayweather is a deceptively hard puncher, fighters quickly respect his power very quickly. He could have a better knockout ratio if he wanted but he has always been happy to cruise to a 12 round decision, he very rarely ups the tempo to force a stoppage which other fighters would.

Look if anyone hits you when you have your hands down and aren't expecting it your gonna be in trouble. I wouldn't use that as a slight against Ortiz's chin which may be questionable. He's taken some massive shots and gotten up in fairness to him.

azania wrote:

paperbag_puncher wrote:When was the last time Khan Ko'd a decent fighter let alone in 3? Thats the tripe I'm talking about. No issue with you thinking Khan will win. But you're talking about Ortiz like he's a binman. Hes a lot better than that and has all the tools to give Khan a hard night's work. In fairness you don't exactly have to be JCC to walk down Khan. He has no pop at the highest level and moving up a weight won't help that.

Hope this fight is made. Can see Khan being a big favourite and would strongly fancy Ortiz who may be as fragile as Khan in some ways but has the punch and style to get Khan out of there. Yep not getting up after taking 2 shots cold from the best there is, is obviously quitting....

Styles makes fights. Ortiz doesn't display much movement. Zip head movement. He stands square on. Khan has very fast hands and is a deceptively hard puncher. Question marks hover over Ortiz's chin (as Khan's chin). Ortiz doesn't have the skill to walk down Khan. No movement. Stand and trade then he'll beat Khan no doubt. Khan wont trade withhim. Instead he'll catch him walking in. 3 rounds.

Mayweather is not a big puncher. Wasn't one at LW and definately not one at WW.

"Khan is a deceptively hard puncher". If so - why couldn't he keep Peterson off him?
"Ortiz doesn't have the skill to walk down Khan". but Peterson - not known as an inside fighter (UNLIKE Ortiz) did?
"He'll catch him walking in". Who has Khan stopped in 3 at 140? And this would be at 147...

Sometimes, rarely, you come out with a nugget of common sense. This isn't one of those times.

The reason Khan is not really hurting anyone is two fold, firstly he is not that big a puncher and secondly he is petrified to actually sit down on his punches and commit to them because to do this he would have to sacrifice so much in movement that for someone with poor punch resistance, a leaky defence and no inside game it does not justify the risk.

Mayweather can punch, but he is wary of his hand problems and tends to use his phenomenal skills instead.

The two posts above me highlight my opinions perfectly.

Khan can punch as can Mayweather but for very different reasons they choose not to, I would pick Mayweather as the bigger puncher of the two though.

Oxy my man. Why does everything have to be so black and white? Shades of grey apply in this case. Khan didn't employ a jab hence he couldn't keep Peterson off him. But let's not forget that even with the dodgy deductions, many had khan winning that fight. Plus Peterson didn't come in straight lines and standing square on as Ortiz generally does.

Why didn't he KO Peterson? Why is that a slight on Khan and not on Ortiz who 'lost' to peterson? Ortiz is a southpaw. Khan has the best southpaw pressure fighter to train with. The bottom line is, Ortiz is overrated. If I were Khan I'd jump at this fight and do a number on Ortiz. 3 rounds. No mas.

And calm it down and stop being provocative. Its unbecoming.

Ortiz never lost to Peterson. Ortiz is too big and strong for him to enforce his gameplan on, if Mayweather couldn't take him out in three then there is no chance that Khan could.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Ortiz never lost to Peterson. Ortiz is too big and strong for him to enforce his gameplan on, if Mayweather couldn't take him out in three then there is no chance that Khan could.

I put "lost" in inverted commas because I had Peterson winning their fight. So what if Mayweather couldn't put him away in 3. He couldn't put Castillo away yet Hatton blew him away.

Hatton could work the body to a greater extent than Mayweather as well as punch, Khan on the other hand can't do anything better than him nor can he punch harder.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Hatton could work the body to a greater extent than Mayweather as well as punch, Khan on the other hand can't do anything better than him nor can he punch harder.

So what? PBF is always a cautions fighter. The best counter puncher out there. He does what he has to do to win. At WW he is more cautious and doesn't press the fight.

Khan winning in 3 won't make him a better fighter. There are many times when the better boxer has taken longer to ko a similar opponent. Its meaningless. Just see Ortiz being made for Khan.

azania wrote:Oxy my man. Why does everything have to be so black and white? Shades of grey apply in this case. Khan didn't employ a jab hence he couldn't keep Peterson off him. But let's not forget that even with the dodgy deductions, many had khan winning that fight. Plus Peterson didn't come in straight lines and standing square on as Ortiz generally does.

Why didn't he KO Peterson? Why is that a slight on Khan and not on Ortiz who 'lost' to peterson? Ortiz is a southpaw. Khan has the best southpaw pressure fighter to train with. The bottom line is, Ortiz is overrated. If I were Khan I'd jump at this fight and do a number on Ortiz. 3 rounds. No mas.

And calm it down and stop being provocative. Its unbecoming.

I think you'll find that Ortiz drew to Peterson and khan lost to Peterson, and Ortiz was just as unlucky not to be given the win as khan.

Also, I know a lot of people who thought Peterson won, and whether the deductions where right, it has to be taken into consideration as they were legit.

Look at the khan-peterson and Ortiz-berto fights them you will see that Ortiz is a much better pressure fighter, closing the ring off better and doesn't come in straight lines like you say. Peterson had already lost ground by the time he changed into a pressure fighter. If Ortiz starts off like that then it could be comfortable.

Khan speed and movement will win rounds to a decision but Ortiz would rush him at some point in the fight and thats his best chance. Ortiz could win as his goal would be to knock Khan out as he ill not try to out box Khan.

WHU, I used the inverted commas because I had Peterson winning against Ortiz. I'm aware of the actual result.

Berto/Ortiz was very exciting but Berto was never much cop imo. More hype than substance. Lucky in a previous fight. Ortiz just isn't that good. A good name for Khan though.

rowley wrote:The reason Khan is not really hurting anyone is two fold, firstly he is not that big a puncher and secondly he is petrified to actually sit down on his punches and commit to them because to do this he would have to sacrifice so much in movement that for someone with poor punch resistance, a leaky defence and no inside game it does not justify the risk.

I know Jeff - its rather odd that Khan has suddenly turned into a "big puncher" - when he has hardly any pop in his punches at 140.

He lost to Peterson because he didn't "use the jab". Which is akin to saying if Khan had a jab like Larry Holmes - he wouldn't have lost. Which, to be fair is true. Equally, if Khan had the inside game of a Marciano, Frazier or Tyson, he wouldn't have lost either. But he didn't and at the moment, doesn't...

Just because he trains with a decent fighter doesn't make him a great fighter, or able to deal with a style. It helps- nothing more. Tyson Fury was training with Wladimir Klitschko - but I wouldn't give him a hope in hell of beating Vitali. Or to make it more relevant - it doesn't make him a favorite to beat David Price. Means precisely jack all. He's been training with Freddie Roach for 2-3 years now - and there's been no improvement on his inside game at all. He's been sparring with Manny throughout that time - so what's changed? What's new?

And more importantly - why does that mean we should live in cloud cuckoo land and pretend Khan has attributes he doesn't?

Tell you what - lets have a wager. If the fight gets made and Khan stops Ortiz in 3 - I'll get rid of my profile picture from Marciano's amazing KO of Walcott - and change it to something of your choice.

If the fight gets made and Khan doesn't stop Ortiz in 3 - you keep that profile picture of Marciano smashing Walcott's face for a month...

You don't have to be a big puncher to KO an opponent per se. You just have to hit them right. And your exaggerations are amusing but if Khan had a jab, any jab he would have won easily. Face it though, boxing fans know who won that fight regardless of the record books. As for an inside game, he'll never have one. No shame in that. Better boxers have had zero inside game. Tyson for one. He stood in the pocket and threw his combos. He didn't stand chest to chest. He was all to easily tied up when inside.

You don't know much about boxing do you?!

azania wrote:You don't have to be a big puncher to KO an opponent per se. You just have to hit them right. And your exaggerations are amusing but if Khan had a jab, any jab he would have won easily. Face it though, boxing fans know who won that fight regardless of the record books. As for an inside game, he'll never have one. No shame in that. Better boxers have had zero inside game. Tyson for one. He stood in the pocket and threw his combos. He didn't stand chest to chest. He was all to easily tied up when inside.

You don't know much about boxing do you?!

Marciano gets stopped by Orlin Norris.
Jack Johnson had poor fundamentals.
Greb couldn't hit a stationary target.
Tyson didn't have an inside game.

Yep Az. If only I had your knowledge of the sport...

azania wrote:WHU, I used the inverted commas because I had Peterson winning against Ortiz. I'm aware of the actual result.

Berto/Ortiz was very exciting but Berto was never much cop imo. More hype than substance. Lucky in a previous fight. Ortiz just isn't that good. A good name for Khan though.

I'm sorry but how could you see that fight as a Peterson win and khan beating Peterson. Ortiz easily won the 1st 4 rounds including 2 knockdowns. The other rounds were closer by Ortiz won at least 1 of those rounds.

I also can't see your critisism of berto, berto is a big welter with a lot of power , good hand speed and good skills. He was the 3rd best welter in the world but outmuscled, outgunned and out boxed by Ortiz.

People bring up maidana when taking about ortiz. I think though that has a much substance now as khan getting beat by Prescott. Both were weight drained and inexperienced and got caught by huge punchers.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:You don't have to be a big puncher to KO an opponent per se. You just have to hit them right. And your exaggerations are amusing but if Khan had a jab, any jab he would have won easily. Face it though, boxing fans know who won that fight regardless of the record books. As for an inside game, he'll never have one. No shame in that. Better boxers have had zero inside game. Tyson for one. He stood in the pocket and threw his combos. He didn't stand chest to chest. He was all to easily tied up when inside.

You don't know much about boxing do you?!

Marciano gets stopped by Orlin Norris.
Jack Johnson had poor fundamentals.
Greb couldn't hit a stationary target.
Tyson didn't have an inside game.
Yep Az. If only I had your knowledge of the sport...

He didn't have much of one. Watch his fights again. He had to get close because of his size. But when inside, he stayed within punching range but never stood toe to toe. I wouldn't say he had an inside game anywhere near Frazier. A totally different type of close up fighter.

Read and learn young man.

Khan v Ortiz makes sense....doesn't to me!! Both these guys on paper are vanquished foes!!!!

how they going to sell it??? Yes Khan is coming off a defeat to Petersen and Ortiz lost his last fight as well!!! Couple of losers at the moment...

Best to wait for one of them to win an alphabet title and then go for it!!

If Khan behaves himself he boxes Ortiz head off and has an easy night with an 11th round stoppage or sooner If Ortiz thinks the chicks might not fancy him If he takes too many more shots!!!