The 'New' England +/- Thread

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

New era for England 1 game played = 1 win

So give us you thoughts both positive and negative.


Positives

We won.
1st win at Murrayfield since 2004.
Farrell can kick.
Discipline was better.
Morgan can't play for wales.

?????


Negatives

Same Poopie, different team
lack of imagination.
Performance was poor to very poor
Still can't do a rolling maul.
Did we have any wingers on the pitch?

????

[ChequeredJersey]

Well what was everyone expecting? Playing Scotland in the rain and wind at Murrayfield with a team of youngsters? I thought they should fantastic spirit, and for a team who had only been together for a few days I thought they did well. The big thing is that they won a game they could have lost. England looked better than Scotland for 60 minutes in my opinion and then Scotland had a good 10 minutes where they should have seen us off. The fact they didn't was testament to poor decisions under pressure on their behalf and England simply not giving up.

Yes, England need to play a lot better, but I think they will. We missed Tuilagi in the centres, but most of the mistakes were simply down to not having played together before.

One player I would highlight who doesn't seem to have been is Strettle. If you watch him in the game he was really putting in the commitment. I think Lancaster has succeeded on that front, getting them to really WANT the shirt. Now, with a game against Italy we need to show a bit more cohesion and start getting some phases together. Then, onwards and upwards. I doubt we will beat Wales, Ireland and France, but I reckon we will beat at least one of them.

Totally agree .....

Whilst he didnt get many chances offensively...he worked his socks off defensively....and i remember seeing him power in to a couple of rucks like a man possessed.

Absolutely, in some other thread there were comments along the lines of 'didn't see him much' but if you watch it back he made a number of tackles and then heavily attacked the rucks.

Which again leads to my question why dont we play Joe Worsley on the wing if we have no intetion of getting the ball, or worse doing anything of value with it when we have it?

He did also make one of our few halfbreaks and took a x-field kick well which would have been a try except for phenomenal reactions and speed from Denton

[Chjw131]

Don't be ridiculous PSW, it's clear we do have a plan of what to do with it when it arrives at the wing...

Option a) Pass it back from whence it came

Option b) Drop and form ruck

For these reasons Joe Worsley would be no good as he is a) retired and b) cannot pass a ball. I would've thought Mike Tindall on the wing would have been a better option.

[eirebilly]

Was Englands Discipline really that much better? They still conceeded 11 penalties.

Englands discipline might have improved marginaly but not that much and in fairness, Clancy being Clancy, could have pinged them alot more.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Well what was everyone expecting? Playing Scotland in the rain and wind at Murrayfield with a team of youngsters? I thought they should fantastic spirit, and for a team who had only been together for a few days I thought they did well. The big thing is that they won a game they could have lost. England looked better than Scotland for 60 minutes in my opinion and then Scotland had a good 10 minutes where they should have seen us off. The fact they didn't was testament to poor decisions under pressure on their behalf and England simply not giving up.

Yes, England need to play a lot better, but I think they will. We missed Tuilagi in the centres, but most of the mistakes were simply down to not having played together before.

One player I would highlight who doesn't seem to have been is Strettle. If you watch him in the game he was really putting in the commitment. I think Lancaster has succeeded on that front, getting them to really WANT the shirt. Now, with a game against Italy we need to show a bit more cohesion and start getting some phases together. Then, onwards and upwards. I doubt we will beat Wales, Ireland and France, but I reckon we will beat at least one of them.

Totally agree .....

Whilst he didnt get many chances offensively...he worked his socks off defensively....and i remember seeing him power in to a couple of rucks like a man possessed.

Absolutely, in some other thread there were comments along the lines of 'didn't see him much' but if you watch it back he made a number of tackles and then heavily attacked the rucks.

Which again leads to my question why dont we play Joe Worsley on the wing if we have no intetion of getting the ball, or worse doing anything of value with it when we have it?

He did also make one of our few halfbreaks and took a x-field kick well which would have been a try except for phenomenal reactions and speed from Denton

True, but why is Tom Croft in the side if hes going to do that?
And Worsley was harder to bring down.

[nathan]

Youngs has taken a lot of criticism - who would we rather play? Or is it a case of Youngs being the only option?

To be fair, each and every scrum half struggles on the back foot and people seem to forget it was his first ever game alongside Hodgeson. He does need to get back into form but i wouldn't say drop him. Hopefully he will have a better game when flood returns.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Youngs has taken a lot of criticism - who would we rather play? Or is it a case of Youngs being the only option?

To be fair, each and every scrum half struggles on the back foot and people seem to forget it was his first ever game alongside Hodgeson. He does need to get back into form but i wouldn't say drop him. Hopefully he will have a better game when flood returns.

Bit of both. The criticism of Youngs is way OITT given what he had infront and outside him. People just hate seeing the SH kick, any player whos ever done it is critisized for it ( booting that one straighht to touch probably didnt help either) whether its the right thing to do or not. His passing was pretty accurate on the few times he did it, and contrary to internet opinion he did pass the ball straight from the ruck on the few oocassions it was possible and there was someone there to receive it in a useful position. The side lacked aggresive rucking and lacked organisation in the backline, its hard for a SH to produced magic with that. Dissapointing he didnt find any gaps to run into, he and Flood used to be very good at manufacturing those but Hodgson has all the running threat of Mike Tindall carrying a dwarf so defences arent really going to get split apart by him moving up.
England are playing a very simple game at the moment, nothing fancy. Basics rugby ...sounds very much like Johnsons plan B after his first few games in charge. Its a depressing circle we seem to go through. The team as a whole isnt exactly being encouraged to play the sort of agressive attacking game you get from Wales, and to be fair its too soon to expect them to be able to pull it off.
Chopping and changing the squad excessivley wont help rebuild that. Chucking away most of the side that they spent 4 yearsd building ( plus injuries) means going right back to the drawing board. It will take a while, chucking away more proven performers like Youngs is a big mistake. He was the one who came in with Flood and gave England their sharpness in Australia. Hopefuly when Flood and Tuilagi are back and the side is more settled we will start to see and England capable of moving the ball forward.

With other options theres Dickson whos comepletly new and not massively adventurous. He broke his hand so his training this would would have been limited a bit. Then theres Simpson who everyone used to love but apparently hes awful now. There would be Care but Lancaster has banned drinking in class so hes not allowed to play with them any more. After that he was looking at the other Dickson and Micky Young who cant get a game for Tigers.
So yeah without Care there isnt really that much pressure on Youngs right now.

[eirebilly]

I honestly dont think that Youngs had a bad game. He didnt get much protection but he did ok considering the pressure England were being put under.

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