england changes for next game

i think England have to make changes for Italy match.i would bring in Morgan for dowson to add more power to pack, Dickson for youngs,flood for hodgson if fit.on bench I would have marler, Webber,parling,dowson, Simpson,turner-hall,sharples.
when everyone is fit for England hopefully for Wales game team should be:
1corbiesro2hartley3cole4lawes5botha6wood7robshaw8morgan9dickson10farrell11ashton12barritt13tuilagi14strettle15foden.

Are any of our injured players (including Trinder) fit?

I'd like to see Dickson and Morgan given starts, but I'd stick with Hodgson for the Italy game with the same bacline. How Hodgson plays will then affect who makes way for Tuilagi - Barrit or Farrell?

The only changes i would make for the next game. Is Dickson for Youngs, Morgan For Dowson, and if fit Sharple for Strettle. and that is it.

England need:

a better balanced backrow - Morgan would give that
a better balanced centre partnetship - Manu would give that
a change at 9 - bring in Dickson

I've never liked Dickson but Youngs was abject, again, so i'd make that change. I'm a little worried about Morgan starting, i'm not sure his workrate and fitness is good enough yet. BUT, Dowson was poor so i'd probably make that change.

I think the balance of the backs is all wrong, but i have no idea who is fit and capable of changing that. If Tuilagi isn't back i'd stick with this OR, and i'm thinking loco people, i'd stick Farrell at 10, Barritt at 12 and JJ at 13. That's right, literally zero experience but i'm feeling dangerous. I'd like to keep Hodgson for his distribution and Farell for his kicking but not sure it works. Barritt's defence was a big plus.

Don't worry about Morgan's fitness or workrate. He looks unfit but hes just massive! He gets around the park a lot and is a big ball carrier.

Actually i'd have

10. Flood (he's fit i think, just about, and has a better all round game than Hodgson plus can kick)
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi

Farrell and JJ on the bench...

Basically i have no idea, no-one really puts their hand up!

gowales wrote:Don't worry about Morgan's fitness or workrate. He looks unfit but hes just massive! He gets around the park a lot and is a big ball carrier.

Ok, i'll take your word for it gowales, chuck him in!

Hood83 wrote:I've never liked Dickson but Youngs was abject, again, so i'd make that change. I'm a little worried about Morgan starting, i'm not sure his workrate and fitness is good enough yet. BUT, Dowson was poor so i'd probably make that change.

I think the balance of the backs is all wrong, but i have no idea who is fit and capable of changing that. If Tuilagi isn't back i'd stick with this OR, and i'm thinking loco people, i'd stick Farrell at 10, Barritt at 12 and JJ at 13. That's right, literally zero experience but i'm feeling dangerous. I'd like to keep Hodgson for his distribution and Farell for his kicking but not sure it works. Barritt's defence was a big plus.

Isn't JJ injured too?

ChequeredJersey wrote:Are any of our injured players (including Trinder) fit?

By definition they are not

I'm not sure whether they will be. I believe Tuilagi, Flood, Lawes and Wood are all realistically only expected back for the Wales game (and since there's a free week in between rounds 2 and 3 this gives them extra time to be integrated into the squad.

One problem with Tuilagi now is that he's so unique in terms of the players we have available that him being injured means we basically have to restructure the whole attack. It'll be really interesting to see what impact he has when he comes back.

On Morgan - it's a bit of an open secret that his fitness could still improve, but a season of international rugby should set that straight.

Hood83 wrote:Actually i'd have

10. Flood (he's fit i think, just about, and has a better all round game than Hodgson plus can kick)
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi

Farrell and JJ on the bench...

Basically i have no idea, no-one really puts their hand up!

Thats a decent centre pairing. Tuilagi is very strong in attack and defence, he will sure up the midfield.

Well, if they are not back in time, give Youngs one last chance against Italy, but bring Dickson on as soon as he looks sub-par, maybe start Morgan- he'll get owned by Parisse but so will Dowson tbh. Until we can magic up a 7, keep Robshaw there, put Sharples on the bench please, no point in having JTH on the bench against Italy and Stretters was covering outside centre yesterday anyway. Marler on the bench, maybe start Parling but not sure.

As soon as they are back, the team should be

Foden
Strettle
Tuilagi
Barritt/Farrell, I don't care which, horses for courses probably
Ashton
Flood
Dickson (unless Youngs plays well)

Corbs
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Palmer/Botha (Palmer is more experienced but he was poor yesterday - see after Italy)
Robshaw
Wood c.
Morgan (probably)

Marler
Webber
Parling
Croft
Youngs
Farrell/Barritt
Sharples

Flood played for Tigers yesterday so is back on the pitch.

Lawes, Wood, Flood and Manu will beef up the side.

Back row should be Robshaw, Wood and Morgan.

Centres Barritt and Manu.

Both Ashton and Stretts are too flaky in defence but don't know anybody better.

gowales wrote:He looks unfit but hes just massive! He gets around the park a lot and is a big ball carrier.

Sounds like a discription of Nick Easter. Is that what we have? A youngfer Nick Easter?

No way. Hes much more dynamic and explosive.

I want to guard against being reactionary towards Youngs. I don't like the idea of pushing him out of the team after a couple of bad performances. We need to let players know that even though they are fighting for the places, they will not be cut for having an off day.

We need the team to be able to play without fear. Youngs is a fantastic talent and will come good again, I'd like to see him get a chance to play his way there.

Cumbrian wrote:I want to guard against being reactionary towards Youngs. I don't like the idea of pushing him out of the team after a couple of bad performances. We need to let players know that even though they are fighting for the places, they will not be cut for having an off day.

We need the team to be able to play without fear. Youngs is a fantastic talent and will come good again, I'd like to see him get a chance to play his way there.

yeah- let him play against Italy. Otherwise have him on the bench. Unfortunately it would be great to let him stay in the team until he gets his form back but with a 9 that is hard as (just like a 10) a shocker there can destroy any attempt to play rugby. He was in no way entirely to blame, but he was a huge contributor to the lack of attacking ability yesterday

ChequeredJersey wrote:Well, if they are not back in time, give Youngs one last chance against Italy, but bring Dickson on as soon as he looks sub-par, maybe start Morgan- he'll get owned by Parisse but so will Dowson tbh. Until we can magic up a 7, keep Robshaw there, put Sharples on the bench please, no point in having JTH on the bench against Italy and Stretters was covering outside centre yesterday anyway. Marler on the bench, maybe start Parling but not sure.

As soon as they are back, the team should be

Foden
Strettle
Tuilagi
Barritt/Farrell, I don't care which, horses for courses probably
Ashton
Flood
Dickson (unless Youngs plays well)

Corbs
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Palmer/Botha (Palmer is more experienced but he was poor yesterday - see after Italy)
Robshaw
Wood c.
Morgan (probably)

Marler
Webber
Parling
Croft
Youngs
Farrell/Barritt
Sharples

Shame if JJ is injured, did that happen in the Saxons game?

Pretty much agree with this. Disappointing for Hodgson but that's the way it is. Great passer but his goal kicking is behind both Flood and Farrell, if only we could merge all three.

Although i expect Palmer to improve i really think Garvey deserves a crack on the bench. Yes it's a step up, and again, as with Morgan, although he does get around the pitch, i'm not 100% convinced his workrate is international level yet. However, he's stood out for the Saxons and we are at least 1 ball carrier short in the pack. I think given the amount of work that will be done in the tight, Italy would be a perfect game to play him in. The only issue i have with him is - both Palmer and Botha look better at affecting turnovers.

Not convinced by Sharples, i've actually been more impressed by May, who can also cover full-back and centre at a push.

Possibly use May, pretty bold choice though

I don't know how injured everyone is but I'd like to see:

Corbs
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Botha
Wood
Robshaw
Morgan
Youngs
Flood
Sharples
Barritt
Tuilagi/Trinder
Strettle
Foden

start against Italy.

Cumbrian wrote:I want to guard against being reactionary towards Youngs. I don't like the idea of pushing him out of the team after a couple of bad performances. We need to let players know that even though they are fighting for the places, they will not be cut for having an off day.

We need the team to be able to play without fear. Youngs is a fantastic talent and will come good again, I'd like to see him get a chance to play his way there.

That's fair. One thing that worried me about Youngs though was hearing him say he modelled himself on Yachvili, in terms of dictating the tempo of the game. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player, but the only aspect Youngs seems to have modelled himself on is to slow the game down. When Yachvili does this it's because he looks out and sees a fixed defence with more men in the line than his team has attacking. When Youngs does this, it's often when we have an overlap. Standing imperiously at the back of a ruck, pointing, shouting and organising does not a Yachvili make. Oh, and Yachvili can also kick, brilliantly.

The more i think about it the more disappointed i am by Youngs development. I don't rate Tigers coaches and he appears to be going backwards. Could be a blip but someone needs to tell him to a) get to the breakdown quickly b) evaluate the options quickly and c) make a decision. He seems to be arriving at rucks with a pre-determined decision. If that is the case, it needs to be to pass it.

Well, for changes:
Farrell:
I would give Farrell his chance at 10. I am not remotely convinced by this kid (but he is still a kid), and Italy is his best chance to show if he is capable of managing a game at this point in his career. We saw Hodgson and know what he is (I want Andy Goode back).

Morgan:
I agree about giving Morgan a run at 8, but Dowson was involved with at a lot of breakdowns and if England lose that, then no one will be involved. But England need a more dynamic ball carrier from the base though. Let's see if Morgan can do it.

Sharples:
Strettle was invisible. Granted there were whole periods where the entire England attack was invisible, but we saw Ashton looking for work as usual. Strettle didn't. England need a big attacking spark. I doubt Sharples can change everything, but I do believe he is more dynamic and is a better choice.

Dickson:
England had terribly slow ball. Dickson's strength is his fast delivery. Not a great runner like Youngs, but is lively, a better passer, and a much better communicator.

Mike Brown:
What to do with this lad? Foden was one of the best England players on the pitch yesterday. Brown is a great attacker, which England need. But just not as good as Foden. Shame he can't play on the wing. I am not suggesting he should, but saying it is a shame.

Props:
As much as I don't like saying so, the scrum improved when Stevens came on. Grudgingly, I think he should start.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Possibly use May, pretty bold choice though

I'd like to see him or JJ (if fit) bench. They can cover a number of positions and offer something different. If it's not Italy it's going to be against very good Welsh, Irish or French teams. Not ideal. I do feel like these are the players we need to try at international level to see if they can cut it, albeit around some experience.

Its a shame about Simpson-Daniel. He would have been the perfect wing to complement Ashton and Foden and hes a left wing specialist as well.

Youngs was shockingly poor and has been for some time for England bar a cameo against Argentina.Possibly start Simpson in his place.

Dowson was poor. Get Morgan in at no 8.

Leave the rest for now.

Flood played most of the second half at the weekend, whilst Hoidgosn was by no means the worst player on the field there has to be a case for bringing him back. He will give Youngs more options and some kind of running threat.

Tullagi wont be back in time for this game, so its hard to see what can be done about the centers. Barrit Tuilagi when he is back with Flood at 10 has a bit more invention about it, but Farrell gets another chance this weekend to prove he is actually up to this level of rugby. He seemed pretty anonymous and offered nothing with the ball in hand against Scotland.

Take a risk on Morgan for some more energetic running in the back row. Its hard to jusdge him from teh weekend as he barely got a chance to do anything, but something has to improve their. England lacked anyone really driving forwards and noone broke a tackle all game, thats a serious problem. Its no wonder Youngs couldnt get the game moving with no oone strecthing the defence.

Front row fine. Second row, well Lawes over Botha when hes fit otherwise I guess stays as it is.



Other than the obvious players returning though its hard to see who woudl really make a difference to this side. They still seem to have the same collective lack of zip and inability to drive over the ball at rucks.
They looked out of shape and poorly organised a lot of teh tiem too, something that wont be fixed by Gary Neville or by chopping and changing the team.

As bad a collective performance as it was wholesale changes for the next game would be premature, and they did actually win for once.

Dowson was poor, have Morgan at 8. Dowson to cover all the backrow on the bench.

Lawes and Botha is an big and powerful second row but I'd give Palmer another shot. He's usually a very consistent performer so I don't think he'll be so awful another game on the trot.

I think Palmer is the lineout caller as well. Neither Lawes or Botha have experience in that department. Although Croft could take that responsibility in the future.

1) You cant rush Flood straight back in
2) The front row generally went well i thought...and corbs had a very good game.
3) I hated the idea of Botha being picked...but he surprised me with his performance..but i would bring Garvey on to the bench to give him a run out..

Id put out:

1 Corbs
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Palmer
5 Botha (Garvey 2nd Half)
6 Croft
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan

9 Spencer (Call up)
10 Farrell
11 Strettle
12 Barritt
13 JJ
14 Ashton
15 Foden

GeordieFalcon wrote:1) You cant rush Flood straight back in
2) The front row generally went well i thought...and corbs had a very good game.
3) I hated the idea of Botha being picked...but he surprised me with his performance..but i would bring Garvey on to the bench to give him a run out..

Id put out:

1 Corbs
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Palmer
5 Botha (Garvey 2nd Half)
6 Croft
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan

9 Spencer (Call up)
10 Farrell
11 Strettle
12 Barritt
13 JJ
14 Ashton
15 Foden

Wales did fine with Roberts and Preistland, Flood actually played half a game at the weekend.

You cant rush Flood back but you can play Spencer & JJ who arent even part of the sqaud?

If Farrell wasnt up to playing 12 or 10 at the weekend, and doesnt play 10 for his clubn because he wasnt good enough when he was tried there is it really a good idea to stick him at 10, only to drop him regardless when Flood is "ready not to be rushed back in".
England have a first choice 10. Farrels medium term future is the center and bench cover. Hes a way off being a starting 10 for England.

I agree with Geordiefalcon to a certain extent. Would certainly prefer Spencer to Youngs.

Youngs has been awful for England since his Argentina cameo where he came off the bench against a knackered opposition. His confidence is shot.

Still unsure where Farrell fits into the mix but certainly doesn't look out of place on the international scene.