Really Enjoyable Match

Hi all, have to say that Ireland v Wales match today rekindled my interest in the 6 Nations after many many years of being indifferent to it.

The most enjoyable international match I've been to in a LONG time.

I loved that the most important thing was what happened at the 80 minute mark not testing combinations for a game a few months away or anything. It was a win at all costs match and I loved it for that.

I loved that with 5 minutes to go and Bradley Davies in the sin bin the Welsh were shaking my hand saying Ireland would probably get the win and were gracious winners when they snatched it.

I loved above all else that we were watching a modern rugby rivarly at its peak. This isn't the usual "everyone has a rivarly with England as 800 years ago they took our land". This was a sporting rivarly that has been bubbling since 2005 and has now reached boiling point. Wales and Ireland are so intertwined and this has been the latest in their on going saga.

Long may it continue. I was really disinterested in the 6 Nations for a long long time. Looking forward to next weekend already.

Looking forward to next weekend but today confirmed to me I care far more for ulster than I do ireland. As someone who grew up supporting Ireland and not really being interested in ulster I find that really hard to reconcile. Its something that has been growing for a while but I haven't really wanted to acknowledge it.

Have to agree re the fans though. It's great to meet proper rugby folks like I did today.

I like the Wales Ireland rivalry too. They're so familiar with each other from the Pro 12, that the games are always close. At test level we went way ahead in the early 00's but they caught up and we've been trading wins for a few years. They really have the upper hand now, so we'll have to raise our game.

Hopefully we can do that and force them to raise the bar in turn. It can only be good for European rugby that Wales and Ireland have improved so much in the pro era. An England-France monopoly would have been boring. And I think we'd still have that if it wasn't for regionalism, the Pro 12 and the Heineken Cup.

I think Wales still has problems with regionalism. But we seem to have a problem that the national team isn't capturing the public imagination like the provinces are. It shouldn't be the case for either country.

I remember when Wales v Ireland was seen as just another Test match, one that we wanted to win but nothing more. It's only relatively recently that the rivalry's really developed and I think it's great. Two nations going at it hammer and tongs and desperate to win, but purely for rugby reasons.

I thought it was a brilliant game too, one of the best years. Two very good teams going hammer and tong.

Our rivalry with Wales reminds me a bit of Nadals with Djockovic right now.
Unfortunately we are the Nadal in the rivalry and have to find another way to beat Wales because our traditional strengths are not effective any more against them.

Wales will win the GS now I feel but I've seen enough to believe that we can win our remaining games.

Brilliant game. But, I cant keep watching Wales play like that I must have aged about 20 years.

We were almost masters of our own demise again, after we missed all those kicks and Davies being a complete dicke. I had to leave the room for the winning kick, just couldnt watch it

............ I won't interrupt the enjoyment of this post....... Happy for those who did enjoy it. But Stand's comments, honestly put out there, kinda puts some of the things I want to say in perspective. But I'll leave those for another thread.

It was a combative game but only one side deserved the win. They got it too. Philip's is the kind of man that rubs people up the wrong way, and admitted as much in the aftergame interview... but if ever a man deserved the spoils, he did. For the passion alone - he and his side deserved the last penalty.

SecretFly, you've intrigued me now.

One thing I have learned above all else over a number of years is that Rugby Fans the world over are normally gracious in victory and in defeat. Yesterday was no exception.

I sat beside two Welsh supporters. The guy beside me had a cracking set of JPR Williams sideburns. He belted out the Welsh National Anthem in a fantastic Tenor voice and then joined in the singing of Ireland's Call.

Rava wrote:One thing I have learned above all else over a number of years is that Rugby Fans the world over are normally gracious in victory and in defeat. Yesterday was no exception.

I sat beside two Welsh supporters. The guy beside me had a cracking set of JPR Williams sideburns. He belted out the Welsh National Anthem in a fantastic Tenor voice and then joined in the singing of Ireland's Call.

I guess we all so readily appreciate the effort that goes into a game of rugby. It's usually written all over the player's faces in the end. We admire that effort when we witness it... and don't shirk giving respect to those who have entertained us by putting their bodies and sometimes even lives on the line.

Standulsterman,

Usually I much prefer Munsters HEC matches to Irelands Six Nations ones.

The fans are together and not squabbling about whose provinces should have most players. The line about building for RWC gets trotted out when teams lose and there appears to be a lack of must win matches at test level. . . .matches where it is so sweet to win and hurts so much to lose.

I was at Munster v Northampton where ROG slotted the last minute drop goal in Thomond. I genuinely enjoyed Ireland v Wales as much as that yesterday and not once have I ever felt that at a 6 Nations match before.

red_stag wrote:Standulsterman,

Usually I much prefer Munsters HEC matches to Irelands Six Nations ones.

The fans are together and not squabbling about whose provinces should have most players. The line about building for RWC gets trotted out when teams lose and there appears to be a lack of must win matches at test level. . . .matches where it is so sweet to win and hurts so much to lose.

I was at Munster v Northampton where ROG slotted the last minute drop goal in Thomond. I genuinely enjoyed Ireland v Wales as much as that yesterday and not once have I ever felt that at a 6 Nations match before.

You're just catching the bug, relatively late in life Stag Welcome to the club.

Rava wrote:One thing I have learned above all else over a number of years is that Rugby Fans the world over are normally gracious in victory and in defeat. Yesterday was no exception.

I sat beside two Welsh supporters. The guy beside me had a cracking set of JPR Williams sideburns. He belted out the Welsh National Anthem in a fantastic Tenor voice and then joined in the singing of Ireland's Call.

I too notice this about rugby fans in real life. Where I find it different is on internet message boards (not saying anything about this game as the vast majority of Irish have been really gracious), and my fellow Welshmen are some of the worst. Maybe it's the type of people they attract, or the anonymity of postings, but there's a huge amount of bile on the message boards these days that you just don't get in real life, shoulder-to-shoulder, fan interaction.

I love the banter in Cardiff on a Wales home match, and none is better than when Ireland come to town. Always good Craic, plenty of banter, no trouble. That's what I can't understand about these boards. Maybe it's much easier and/or socially acceptable to bicker online than in real life???!

Secret,

Its a nice feeling. I'm off to Paris next weekend for the France v Ireland game (anyone wants to come let me know #shamelessplug)

But really I'm going to another 3 Six Nations games which I am looking forward to.

I don't get it either Griff. I think a big part of it is that it is so hard to judge tone when it is written. A huge amount of the fun is harmless banter between pals - which is near impossible to replicate online with strangers.

I've met up with loads of posters from this site and I know now who I can joke and banter with.

[quote="Griff"]

Rava wrote:I love the banter in Cardiff on a Wales home match, and none is better than when Ireland come to town. Always good Craic, plenty of banter, no trouble. That's what I can't understand about these boards. Maybe it's much easier and/or socially acceptable to bicker online than in real life???!

Well... a little excuse for what you talk about is the idea that some people can't detect emotions easily over the internet. It's either a skill you have or don't have and if you're skilled it's because you learned those skills over time. Me, I'm constantly trying to work out the 'tone' of the writer. Some you know you can have a few heated words with and it'll be back to normal the following week. Some you know are irritable charaters that would pick a fight with their fingernails - and you either ignore those or yep, at times goad them because you're really telling them their behavior isn't all that bright and they aren't going to push their opinions down people's throats.

Now you meet all sorts in real life and usually strangers meeting - first rule is you try to be courteous. But we all too, in our heart of hearts, know that the guy who is inoffensive in real life might actually be one of the nutcases on here!!!

What I really hate to see on these boards are 'fans' who can't just be happy their side won, they have to come back and rub it in. We all know that schadenfreude can be a nice buzz, but it's really poor to mock someone whose team has just lost, irrespective of what he said before the game.

Rava wrote:One thing I have learned above all else over a number of years is that Rugby Fans the world over are normally gracious in victory and in defeat. Yesterday was no exception.

I sat beside two Welsh supporters. The guy beside me had a cracking set of JPR Williams sideburns. He belted out the Welsh National Anthem in a fantastic Tenor voice and then joined in the singing of Ireland's Call.

I too notice this about rugby fans in real life. Where I find it different is on internet message boards (not saying anything about this game as the vast majority of Irish have been really gracious), and my fellow Welshmen are some of the worst. Maybe it's the type of people they attract, or the anonymity of postings, but there's a huge amount of bile on the message boards these days that you just don't get in real life, shoulder-to-shoulder, fan interaction.

I love the banter in Cardiff on a Wales home match, and none is better than when Ireland come to town. Always good Craic, plenty of banter, no trouble. That's what I can't understand about these boards. Maybe it's much easier and/or socially acceptable to bicker online than in real life???!

One of the best matches i have seen for a long time, maybe not in terms of outright quality but certainly in edge of the seat entertainment.

Massive congrats to the Welsh team as the were more than deserved winners. Cracking match for the neutrals that one.

Nice post Stag! I really enjoyed the match too and will write a post on it now. Good to see you other Irish lads echoing those sentiments of having witnessed a great game.

Now for France next weekend. Many didn´t think Wales could win in Ireland so why not dream the impossible and think of a victory in Paris. That would really set this tournament alight!

Kia,

I think we can win in Paris. And if anyone wants to come let me know

Yep it was definitely worth watching.

I promised myself I should at least once in my life watch a whole six nations and decided this is the year to do it.

After the first two matches I myself was quite indifferent to what I have seen although I won't say it was a waste of time, but a little disappointing.

At least it seems, France, Wales and Ireland wants to play the game.

Enjoyable - yes! Nerve racking - YES! I don't think I could do another game like that. I will re-watch the game this week in the calm knowing that we have won and probably enjoy it even more. From my sober eyes (yep sober) I witness 2 very closely matched teams go at each other for 80 minutes, with moments of brilliance at times and sheer physicality that borderd on insane.

Kudos to Ireland and I guess the Irish fans will be disappointed with the result but that was a hard fought and VERY close match! Good luck in Paris!

Impossible Standards - I wish every match was as nerve racking. Thats what I love about rugby.

Thanks for the good luck - I on the other hand wish Wales ill fortune in next outing and hope Scotland beat you (I do like Wales but a Scottish win gives Ireland a chance to get back into the tournament)

Stag it's ok i'm not bitter!

Stag

I hope to have a similar experience at an international in the future but for the time being I will stick to going to ulster games I think. At least until the boy is of age to go.

Not a reflection on the fans yesterday at all. Cracking the ones around me. I have mentioned before in our wee group of ulster fans there are two welshmen and a Scotsman. 6N is great banter with them in the pub but come to HEC/ pro 12 time we are all Ulstermen.

biltongbek wrote:Yep it was definitely worth watching.

I promised myself I should at least once in my life watch a whole six nations and decided this is the year to do it.

After the first two matches I myself was quite indifferent to what I have seen although I won't say it was a waste of time, but a little disappointing.

At least it seems, France, Wales and Ireland wants to play the game.

Biltongbek, I would include Italy in that as well. They actually tried to play some open Rugby which was a refreshing change from the Mallett era.

Very true Rava, there was much more ambition on show from Italy on Saturday. At home this coming weekend, we should see more of the same.

They still don't make any line breaks through the backs though. They were just going side to side passing the ball back and forth most of the time. They need to be more direct in my opinion.

Rava wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Yep it was definitely worth watching.

I promised myself I should at least once in my life watch a whole six nations and decided this is the year to do it.

After the first two matches I myself was quite indifferent to what I have seen although I won't say it was a waste of time, but a little disappointing.

At least it seems, France, Wales and Ireland wants to play the game.

Biltongbek, I would include Italy in that as well. They actually tried to play some open Rugby which was a refreshing change from the Mallett era.

You are correct, they did look a little pedestrian though, and will take a while to get it right.

Gowales I agree, but at least there was intent to try the expansive game. They wouldn't have the quality and the French are very good defensively so we'll see how they get on in the next couple of games. I found it refreshing anyway compared to the predictable up the jumper and seriously slow stuff we were used to.

Rava I agree with you about Italy. Good shout. I think they will cause England problems next week I really do.

It's early days for Italy under Jacques Brunel but there were promising signs. Paris is a tough place to play so let's see how they fare in Rome.

Good on you Stag for your unshaking belief. I think it´d be great to see Ireland win there and breathe life into the tournament early on making it clattered at the top rather than the middle down as has often happened in recent times. A loss certainly gives Ireland extra motivation as they approach the game now in Paris thinking this is their tournament chances already on the line.

As for Italy, it might not be the finished article yet but at least it is a recognised change in tactic. Scotland would do well to take that shift in thinking on board. Starting with the demise of Parks and putting someone more adventurous in at flyhalf. AR went for safety first as he thought the result was more important. Now he has a loss and perhaps the motivation to see the safety approach way relying on conservatism isn´t foolproof and maybe chancing their arm like two years ago in Cardiff is the way to go.

Standulstermen wrote:Looking forward to next weekend but today confirmed to me I care far more for ulster than I do ireland. As someone who grew up supporting Ireland and not really being interested in ulster I find that really hard to reconcile. Its something that has been growing for a while but I haven't really wanted to acknowledge it.

+1

I've started becoming the same with Leinster.

Ireland has disappointed me a lot over the last 3 years and Leinster rugby is so much more attractive to watch.

I thought that Italy played very well. Some very poor errors in defence saw France wrack up some points but on the whole Italy played well and if they play like that against England then i see a hug shock in the making.

I would also add that Italy wanted to play just as much rugby as France, Wales and Ireland did. Huge credit to them.

Even though Wales beat Ireland yesterday, i am still on a high from the match. It really was fantastic and i saw enough from Ireland to think that they may worry France

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Looking forward to next weekend but today confirmed to me I care far more for ulster than I do ireland. As someone who grew up supporting Ireland and not really being interested in ulster I find that really hard to reconcile. Its something that has been growing for a while but I haven't really wanted to acknowledge it.

+1

I've started becoming the same with Leinster.

Ireland has disappointed me a lot over the last 3 years and Leinster rugby is so much more attractive to watch.

I understand from an aesthetic point of view what you´re saying. But really to put your provincial team above your country is unthinkable for me. My team is the Crusaders and they´re no slouches when compared with the ABs. Much of the team is the ABs after all! But national glory is the coveted prize. Provincial glory is the icing on the cake. Just because your national side isn´t performing as well as you´d like shouldn´t change that. I´m not having a go at either of you but such talk I find very strange.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Looking forward to next weekend but today confirmed to me I care far more for ulster than I do ireland. As someone who grew up supporting Ireland and not really being interested in ulster I find that really hard to reconcile. Its something that has been growing for a while but I haven't really wanted to acknowledge it.

+1

I've started becoming the same with Leinster.

Ireland has disappointed me a lot over the last 3 years and Leinster rugby is so much more attractive to watch.

But you can't effect what happens on the field, pete. Your allegiances can swing or at any point in your life emphasise one over the other. The players themselves don't have that choice. They are honoured by getting picked - they are being told they are a special elite by being picked; and I pray to God that they are not having the same doubts about which is the more important as yourself and Stand have admitted today.

Not denying you your choices and preferences, but yeah, if these players are taking up positions that uses an Irish shirt (and there are plenty of players crying out for the chance) I do deny them the double-thought of what the more valuable shirt is.

If they even have a hint of suspicion that the Six Nations is a break from the real business of HC, then they should declare themselves unavailable for the Irish shirt. Because that doubt is more than enough to influence the game you witness on the field and how disappointed you (and I) are in it.

Fly, I would still consider that I am more ecstatic at the final whistle of a Heineken Cup victory than a Six Nations one and more upset at the defeats.

However yesterday was a first but hopefully we can build on it.

Bunch of fairweather fans!

I think it's unfortunate that Ireland have become so uninspiring and frustrating to watch over the last few years under Kidney, while simultaneously the provinces have been getting better and better and have been involved in a seemingly endless stream of cracking matches. Remember ROG's drop goals this year, Zebo's hat trick, Leinster entering a the stratosphere in terms of attacking brilliance and playing in one of the most stunning HEC finals ever, Ulster climbing up the European ladder again, Connacht's first HEC win.

The frustration with the national team is widespread among fans now, I think. They're playing neanderthal tactics and losing loads of games. They only seem really fired up for a match about once or twice a year. They seem unmotivated most of the time. It's understandable that many rugby fans are currently getting more joy from the provinces.

red_stag wrote:Fly, I would still consider that I am more ecstatic at the final whistle of a Heineken Cup victory than a Six Nations one and more upset at the defeats.

However yesterday was a first but hopefully we can build on it.

Yes Stag, but I know you do realise that if a few of our players have the same thoughts in their heads (and they are human and so will have various thoughts bordering on the thoughts of their fans) but if they have those thoughts, that in itself would be a major issue in determining what we see on the International field - where it must be said, quite often in games that need intensity, it doesn't make an appearance. Munster, Ulster and Leinster can lose, but I don't think anyone questions that when they know they need to have a big game, it's played that way.

I don't want to think of mixed emotions amongst players - we have trouble enough without that complication; that of course has been shot across their bow before, by some of the players themselves.

It's nothing to do with success (I'm an ulster fan for crying out loud) but I just am more emotionally involved with ulster than I am Ireland. I shout and scream till I am hoarse at raven hill but other than the anthems I didn't really feel inclined to yesterday.

Kia

I used t be of that mindset but over the years my point of view has changed gradually but now it seems completely the opposite.

Secret, yes I know. I would hate to think that is the case. It remains something of an elephant in the room which was briefly examined in 2009 but it was only Munster who were successful at the time. Now all the provinces have experienced a surge in their achievements and their fans and players know what it is like to taste victory in the must win big Euro games.

It remains an elephant in the room.

red_stag wrote:Secret, yes I know. I would hate to think that is the case. It remains something of an elephant in the room which was briefly examined in 2009 but it was only Munster who were successful at the time. Now all the provinces have experienced a surge in their achievements and their fans and players know what it is like to taste victory in the must win big Euro games.

It remains an elephant in the room.

If its Munster players its because they only play for their province.
If its Leinster players its because of the tactics of the despicable ex Munster coach (who keeps picking them I might add)

I don't think there's any elephant in the room stag. There was a bit of friction between Leinster and Munster players in 2009, but they sorted it out and won a Grand Slam. I don't see players from one particular province not trying for Ireland. I don't see any friction between players from different provinces either. They all seem like friends. I see the entire Irish team, regardless of province looking like they lack confidence and direction.

or ability...

Was I talking Munster v Leinster? You only mention them and you get hung in these parts.

I said I hope players from all Provinces (all of them) realise that playing for your country is an honour that is envied by those who don't get the opportunity - and the responsibility to that honour is, to put it bluntly, that you play out of your skin on each occasion and not save yourself the hassle of injury that might ruin any provincial aspirations.

Nothing to do with friction between provinces, just hoping all their hearts are in the right place. I think they are.

Not at all fly...was just making a point concerning the supporters..

Feckless,

Friction between Munster and Leinster players isn't what I am talking about.

So far on this thread a Munster, Leinster and Ulster fan have all said that they prefer supporting their province rather than their club.

The worry is do the players feel the same way. Does Sean O'Brien get a bigger thrill playing for Leinster than Ireland. Does O'Connell prefer Thomond than Aviva Stadium. Does Rory Best see himself an Ulster player first and an Irish player second.

Probably not. But in 2009 the issue Kearney raised was that Munster players seemed to reach another level playing for their province than nobody in the squad could reach for Ireland. Since then Leinster and arguably Ulsters players too have raised their game and put their bodies on the line and turned in amazing performances for the provinces.

The question Fly is asking and that I think remains an elephant in the room - do they want it as much when they wear the green shirt or is there the tiniest bit more excitement in the provincial jersey?

Possibly one or two but I think its a lame excuse and bit of red herring in a long list of lame excuses and red herrings. Maybe just maybe the only players we have had that were world class were Wood, BOD and POC. The players we have now are good and better than the options we have had in the past (recent and distant). But we still suffer from not having enough worldclass or maybe even very good players.