England fan's view on Wales team

First topic message reminder :

I think Wales have got things right with the move to Regions and after a difficult start they look ready to reap the rewards.

For the last few years Wales have had a very strong first team but have not been able to cope with a few injuries. This has changed and Wales look to have a very strong squad that can still win away in Ireland, against a strong Irish team gunning for World Cup revenge, despite missing the likes of Jenkins, Lydiate and others. Very impressive!

I thought Wales did very well in the world cup but felt the hype was a little excessive given the loses to SA and France. The 3rd place playoff is completely meaningless and does not count for much in my opinion.

If Wales manage to pull of a grand slam this year it would be a huge achievement given the difficult away games. Having seen the quality and self belief of this team against Ireland I think they can do it. I also fancy that they can get a couple of wins over the SH later in the year.

North, Felatau and Warberton look like potential world 15 players to me. I can't think of any English player with that kind of potential other than Tuilagi and he is still very raw (and not very English).

England's best players against Scotland were the South Africans Barritt and Botha. I can't help but feel that they and the likes of Robshaw and Dowson are just hard working journeymen. Morgan impressed in his 12 mins but he looks out of shape.

I can see Wales and France dominating the NH for some time to come. They will be NH's best hopes for the next world cup. England just don't have good enough players, Ireland are getting old, and Scotland consistently rubbish. Who do you think is the best in the NH and will they compete with the SH over the next world cup cycle?

RubyGuby wrote:Chelsea - you were 16-0 down against France after 10 minutes - We dominated them for 70 minutes with 14 men and you say we were awful against France - That my friend is one of the most insane comments I've seen on here - Are you Villas Boas?

Words cannot describe how poor England were against France though (first half), and at least France were decent in that first half. They were truly awful against Wales but Wales couldn't capitalise. It was a game Wales should have won, and won handily, but they didn't, because they were as awful as France.

My point was more that IMO Wales's WC campaign included only one really good performance (vs Ireland). Well though they played against SA, they didn't win...

"and who now feature in a successful national team - England have?? Tuilagi who is very lucky to be in the UK"

Ruby this is the point at which you referred to the lack of English talent. If you stand by that statement as a dispassionate and fair rugby critique then so be it.

Morgan, yes Wales did relatively well in the RWC. Yes they could be a successful side. I have acknowledged all of this already. What they haven't done, which is what I was alluding to, is actually gone out and achieved a great deal. Just participating in a RWC and 6N does not make them great players. When they start beating today's great players then fine, until then it's just potential; and if you think that playing against and losing to those great teams is enough then fine. Clearly England have even better players by that logic!

I also notice you haven't picked up on the most salient point here. What Ruby was trying to say originally, I beleive was that English talent doesn't make it through the age grades.

Firstly, some of it does as I have mentioned above. Secondly, you're right that with the mass of players available some do not get the opportunity at such a young age that some Welsh players do. Where's the problem?

beshocked wrote:England fan 1979 is obviously a Welsh WUM pretending to be English.

Obviously doesn't watch enough AP rugby. Calling the likes of Barritt and Robshaw journeyman is ludicrous.

Also Wales haven't beaten England in the last 3 6 nations matches.

Wales have a good balanced side but I am not too worried about them at Twickenham. They struggle there.

This is my first day on here and several people don't believe that I'm English. I was born in Ipswich and live in Peterborough. I come from a family of England supports. My mother even made it to the 2003 world cup final!

I just happen to think that having relegation in the premiership does not help English clubs in the HC or our international team. I also think that the Irish and Welsh regional system helps develop young players better than the English system. I also think that France and Wales look the form teams in this 6 Nations. I also think that England were not very impressive against Scotland but am happy they got away with the win. Does this make me a bad Englishman, or does it mean that I am not so blinded by patriotism that I give credit where credit is due?

bedfordwelsh it could be the same for England - 2 wins.

Don't talk to me about that 08 game! Can't blame the ref for that loss. In my opinion it was a mix of injuries to most of our backrow and Strettle in the game plus acting like headless chickens (no leadership) in the 2nd half which led to England's downfall.

Wales are a good side but they do struggle at Twickenham for whatever reason.

Yes this England side are raw, and need huge improvements in performance. And yes Wales look very good at the moment. I'm not some one-eyed England supporter. What grates with me is the attitude some people adopt when they perceive their team to be doing well.

As if somehow English rugby has this dearth of talent and can't bring through new young players. It's utter horse Poopie.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:England beat 2 of those sides last year you lost to 2.

Your point? We beat England. We beat Ireland.

Scarlets thrashed Northampton at home.

Might wanna save your talking until after the 6 Nations. You might have a torrid time in Dublin and Paris.

Morgannwg wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:England beat 2 of those sides last year you lost to 2.

Your point? We beat England. We beat Ireland.

Scarlets thrashed Northampton at home.

Might wanna save your talking until after the 6 Nations. You might have a torrid time in Dublin and Paris.

considering we're not going to Dublin, yeah, could be really tough

Chjw,

Thye have in the passed struggled to bring through the talent and this time its obviously through neccesity but for me you have some very good players.

What, to me still seems to be the main problem is a lack of creativity in the centre, I know Tuilagi is injured which will gibe you the go forward ball Roberts gives us and who knows how he and Farrel will go.

Lancaster and whoever takes over needs to have faith in these guys and not drop them like happened with Tait.

You have top notch forwards in the likes of Cole, Lawes, Botha look handy, Wood, Morgan etc so its not all doom and gloom.

Maybe and hopefully from a Welsh view point this 6 Nations is to early as they say and a work in progress

Fine England fan 1979. It just seems odd that your first posts are hailing the Welsh as deities.

I apologise.

Of course Wales and France were better on the day. England won though and to me that's all that matters.

I would love to play free flowing rugby but a calcutta cup game in Murrayfield is not the time to do so!

I have seen my club side playing their part in a really exciting Guinness Premiership final. They played free flowing rugby but lost. The season after they played a more conservative gameplan and won the AP final.

I would rather take the win. As my side's first decent silverware it means a lot.

In terms of preference:
Win beautifully
Win ugly
Lose beautifully
Lose ugly


The Welsh win against Ireland is a lot more impressive than the French win against Italy.

beshocked wrote:
Also Wales haven't beaten England in the last 3 6 nations matches.

Wales have a good balanced side but I am not too worried about them at Twickenham. They struggle there.

I believe it is the last 2, actually Beshocked. We then lost a warm-up game in Twickenham before winning the return in Cardiff. The last time we saw a '3 on the bounce' in the 6 Nations between these two was by Wales in 2009 .

You can be confident. But from what I have seen of England, i am also confident. There is another game to go and a break before our next fixture I believe so my mind is also subject to change.

I'm just a bit suspicious about any who's called "[Country] fan" or who starts articles with "as a [Country]man" or some other variation.

The reason why Staunton is preferred over 19 year old Ford is because Ford's salary does not come into the salary cap unless he plays above a certain number of games. If he does then his whole wage is included and I think we can be pretty sure that Tigers are straining the wage to the limit. Instead he's been on loan to a championship side and getting regular rugby. In terms of the English players coming through....Cole, Hartley (if he counts), Corbisiero, Lawes, Attwood, Croft, Haskell, Youngs, Flood, Tuilagi, Foden and Ashton have all been brought in in their very early 20s (or earlier). Not really worried about. Also our U20 are generally more experienced than or British or Irish equivalents.

EDIT: I would have thought you knew all this as an English rugby fan.

Apologies Morgannwg you are correct. England had won 3 in a row (including that home friendly win). It's only 2 in the 6 nations so far but could be 3 soon hopefully.

Yes you should be confident looking at England vs Scotland! We always look abysmal when playing against them. Normally win though.

England are a lot tougher at home in the 6 nations though bar against the Irish (though there was the game when Noon and Cipriani put the Irish to the sword).

Interesting post and I was impressed by the Welsh but why are the Welch clubs so rubbish in Europe ( Ok Cardiff won the Amlin cup sometime ago ) when they have the same regional system as the Irish and a better balanced national team

The Provincial system served Ireland well for so many years. In my opinion, they don't blood enough young guys. They lost by 2 points in the last minute so they are hardly bad. They executed the same tactics that failed them in the world cup, a few changes and they might have won. They can win in Paris, and in Twickenham.

rosbif very true the Welsh sides in particular the Ospreys underachieve in Europe.

Cardiff seem to fare better but will likely be out of Europe once they play Leinster.

The Dragons have been a weak Welsh club for some time.

Scarlets are a work in progress.

Ospreys simply underachieve and seem to have lost confidence. A new coaching set up is needed.

They were always going to struggle in their group but to be put to the sword like they did vs Biarritz isn't good enough.

alot of talk is about the english system v the welsh system.

people dont like relegation- its as if they play a different breed of rugby because of it- everyone is frightened to loose!?

fristly we need to get rid of the wage cap- we need a man u,man city,chelsea in the aviva premiership. a few teams that pay through the noses to get the best talent available. that way we can get the best engloish playing together week in week out, the best players will get rewarded with a nice wage, and they wont have to be scared to loose they just wont loose that much!

get rid of the wage cap- job done.

its the future- it will also get rugby more on the map- people/fans will flock to see the massive match ups..

get some balls RFU kill the cap- go with the flow- make some money, make good players some real money as well!

mystiroakey wrote:i think you have missed the point guby.

anyway you raise the point at the end. something noone seems to be mentioning.

england have been very brave with selection, something no other team has the bottle to do!!

we have plans, we have big aspirations, as we should and we are not worried about the short term!

senghenydd1913 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:i think you have missed the point guby.

anyway you raise the point at the end. something noone seems to be mentioning.

england have been very brave with selection, something no other team has the bottle to do!!

we have plans, we have big aspirations, as we should and we are not worried about the short term!

and?

complete and utter rollocks-brave with selection? "something that no other team has the bottle to do" whatever bubble your living in must be filled with sais laughing gas

the truth is most see the 6n's as the be all and end all- england dont!

HERSH wrote:It would have been better if they had done it without the foul play and the Refs not bottling it, again!

Would giving Davies a red card instead of yellow have cancelled out the three tries we scored? Or stopped Ferris from even thinking about slightly lifting Evans legs in the tackle right in front of the posts with less than a minute to go? Foul play and refs bottling it only have a bearing on the result in your mind because YOU want it

mystiroakey wrote:the truth is most see the 6n's as the be all and end all- england dont!

Do they value international rugby at all these days or is it all about the clubs and the HEC...? Or are you referring to England Prioritising the RWC...?

Bedford,God willing,I will have a ticket as I would hate to miss this one.

mystiroakey wrote:alot of talk is about the english system v the welsh system.

people dont like relegation- its as if they play a different breed of rugby because of it- everyone is frightened to loose!?

fristly we need to get rid of the wage cap- we need a man u,man city,chelsea in the aviva premiership. a few teams that pay through the noses to get the best talent available. that way we can get the best engloish playing together week in week out, the best players will get rewarded with a nice wage, and they wont have to be scared to loose they just wont loose that much!

get rid of the wage cap- job done.

its the future- it will also get rugby more on the map- people/fans will flock to see the massive match ups..

get some balls RFU kill the cap- go with the flow- make some money, make good players some real money as well!

Since this is a guarenteed failure and would kill off the international teams chances for the forseeable future. I wholeheartedly support this idea. Please RFU take these ideas on board, nevermind the influx of foreign players that would stunt young english development, never mind the unsustainability of that system which would lead directly to clubs folding, nevermind the detrimrnt of the National Side as the AP becomes more important to players as in wendyball. forget all tha,t MS is spot on I and any other NH fan should support this.

-absolute tosh-what a cop out-you would see the 6N's as the top dollar IF you were champions(which you wont be)-stop living in the past and get real-2nd rate rugby nation,2nd rate players-come back to this post at the end of this 6N's and lets discuss it again.

senghenydd1913 wrote: -absolute tosh-what a cop out-you would see the 6N's as the top dollar IF you were champions(which you wont be)-stop living in the past and get real-2nd rate rugby nation,2nd rate players-come back to this post at the end of this 6N's and lets discuss it again.

we are 6ns champions pal. or did you forget!!

as i said before though we are looking at the long game!

we will be back- laugh all you like but deep down you know it!

TycroesOsprey wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:alot of talk is about the english system v the welsh system.

people dont like relegation- its as if they play a different breed of rugby because of it- everyone is frightened to loose!?

fristly we need to get rid of the wage cap- we need a man u,man city,chelsea in the aviva premiership. a few teams that pay through the noses to get the best talent available. that way we can get the best engloish playing together week in week out, the best players will get rewarded with a nice wage, and they wont have to be scared to loose they just wont loose that much!

get rid of the wage cap- job done.

its the future- it will also get rugby more on the map- people/fans will flock to see the massive match ups..

get some balls RFU kill the cap- go with the flow- make some money, make good players some real money as well!

Since this is a guarenteed failure and would kill off the international teams chances for the forseeable future. I wholeheartedly support this idea. Please RFU take these ideas on board, nevermind the influx of foreign players that would stunt young english development, never mind the unsustainability of that system which would lead directly to clubs folding, nevermind the detrimrnt of the National Side as the AP becomes more important to players as in wendyball. forget all tha,t MS is spot on I and any other NH fan should support this.

barcenlona- spain.

anyone?

If you cant see the benefit of allowing the market to dictate rugby union- it will never become a global sport- sadlyquailty club teams are needed for the future of the sport. If it doesnt happen the world will get swallowed up by other sports and rugby will just be the game played by a few nations and a few nations only. The yanks are trying to get there sports into this country and if our other sports dont make changes they could all get swallowed up by 'money' games.

mystiroakey wrote:
as i said before though we are looking at the long game!

What do you mean?

senghenydd1913 wrote: -absolute tosh-what a cop out-you would see the 6N's as the top dollar IF you were champions(which you wont be)-stop living in the past and get real-2nd rate rugby nation,2nd rate players-come back to this post at the end of this 6N's and lets discuss it again.

England ARE the reigning 6 Nations champions and have won 5 out of the last 6 games in the tournament. Hardly ancient history. England have beaten Wales in the last two encounters in the tournament.

As for 2nd rate, England are ranked 5th in the world with Wales below them at 6th after the weekend. Even after Wales' "unbelievably brilliant, best ever, woohoo only lost 3 games!" World Cup and England's "abject, awful but still doing better than Wales normally do and lost one game" effort.

This appears to be another of the Wales v [insert someone here] bickering threads of which 606v2 seems to be made up of these days.

yeah i have no idea why this muppet is trying to start some sort of wales v england thing!- we have a bickering thread for that purpose- i suggest he goes there

mystiroakey wrote:the truth is most see the 6n's as the be all and end all- england dont!

With all the Hoakey Cokey at the WC England clearly dont value the WC.The lack of success in the HC shows that England dont value this either.
Ah,you are targetting your resources on the LV!!!!!!!!!!!!

mystiroakey wrote:yeah i have no idea why this muppet is trying to start some sort of wales v england thing!- we have a bickering thread for that purpose- i suggest he goes there

"muppet" oh dear oh dear-been found out have you?

Taffineastbourne wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:the truth is most see the 6n's as the be all and end all- england dont!

With all the Hoakey Cokey at the WC England clearly dont value the WC.The lack of success in the HC shows that England dont value this either.
Ah,you are targetting your resources on the LV!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh blimey i have caused a stir lol

senghenydd1913 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:yeah i have no idea why this muppet is trying to start some sort of wales v england thing!- we have a bickering thread for that purpose- i suggest he goes there

"muppet" oh dear oh dear-been found out have you?

i actually posted muppet- i posted t£$t the other day and it changed to muppet, so i just use that word now. You can guess what i mean

Taffineastbourne wrote:The lack of success in the HC shows that England dont value this either.

Yeah, it's darn difficult to wrest this trophy from the grasp of the Welsh regions

nah-you'll only cause a stir when you get beaten in Italy and then come on here and say it was the fault of Maximus Crassus

mystiroakey wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:the truth is most see the 6n's as the be all and end all- england dont!

With all the Hoakey Cokey at the WC England clearly dont value the WC.The lack of success in the HC shows that England dont value this either.
Ah,you are targetting your resources on the LV!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh blimey i have caused a stir lol

Might I suggest that to safeguard your eyesight you should get married.

senghenydd1913 wrote:nah-you'll only cause a stir when you get beaten in Italy and then come on here and say it was the fault of Maximus Crassus

here we go?

i am sure i remember you pre scotland game saying something simliar . lol

Taffineastbourne wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:the truth is most see the 6n's as the be all and end all- england dont!

With all the Hoakey Cokey at the WC England clearly dont value the WC.The lack of success in the HC shows that England dont value this either.
Ah,you are targetting your resources on the LV!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh blimey i have caused a stir lol

Might I suggest that to safeguard your eyesight you should get married.

id rather be blind

mystiroakey wrote:
as i said before though we are looking at the long game!

we will be back- laugh all you like but deep down you know it!

You say this every year.

Morgannwg wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:
as i said before though we are looking at the long game!

we will be back- laugh all you like but deep down you know it!

You say this every year.

yeah we said it in 2002 as well

eerrrmm wasnt on here prior to the Scotland(capital letter for country) game-take 100 lines that boy.-deflecting the issue are we??

mystiroakey wrote:the truth is most see the 6n's as the be all and end all- england dont!

Unless they are winning otherwise its always a devalued championship.

I know you said it in 2002, you say it every year. And I second what Bedford said, the 6 Nations being Englands training ground for the world cups they don't win.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:the truth is most see the 6n's as the be all and end all- england dont!

Unless they are winning otherwise its always a devalued championship.

I think that would go for any side and its fans, especially the Italians. According to them the 6 Nations might be over 10 years old, but none of them have counted yet!

Bedford-theres no so blind that cannot see-when the sais win the ^n's its the best comp in the world-when they dont its either devalued or some other excuse that is not really identifiable

well the italians might as well have been there for 10000 years the amount of support they are recieving at the moment!

oooohhhhh coming down in frustration on our Italian(capital letter for country)
bretheren now-still trying to deflect the issue-very unsuccessfully I might add.
See through you like saki on rice paper,

senghenydd1913 wrote:eerrrmm wasnt on here prior to the Scotland(capital letter for country) game-take 100 lines that boy.-deflecting the issue are we??

a bored teacher i take it, it must be half term for your school

is surrey part of LLoeger or is it a province of Peckham?