Oh Andy Dont!

by hawkeye Fri 10 Feb 2012, 7:10 am

Will Andy never learn? Does he have a coach? Where is he? He should be sacked.

This is how Andy responded to questions about the British need for a slam. From The Times (PPV)

“The problem in the semis or final is not nerves; it is staying in the moment. The temptation is to start thinking about victory, about what would happen if you could just win the next few points or games. But that is deadly, because you stop thinking about tactics and the other things that really matter. The trick is to stop your mind running away.”

“It is brutal, but I know that my life in tennis will always be judged on that single question,” he says. “But you don’t have to worry, because I am going to win one. Actually, more than one.”

Andy "the problem" could have something to do with the competition. Give your opponants more respect! You say you start thinking of victory and of course that must be nice and you say that stops you thinking of tactics and of course that is probably true.... and then you say with confidence you are going to win more than one. Keep these thoughts to yourself. All players must have these thoughts but do you see them telling jouunalists? Its quite simple really don't blow your own trumpet! Let your tennis do the talking. By that I mean really let your tennis do the talking and not "threaten" a 16 slam holder that when you next meet thats what you intend to do.

Murray is not my favourite tennis player but he is so in need of good coaching advice sometimes I can't help myself...

by legendkillar Fri 10 Feb 2012, 8:06 am

Murray is not my favourite tennis player but he is so in need of good coaching advice sometimes I can't help myself...

Never!!

by Tenez Fri 10 Feb 2012, 8:32 am

“But you don’t have to worry, because I am going to win one. Actually, more than one.”

Call me superstitious but I would never say somthing like that.

by Guest Fri 10 Feb 2012, 10:00 am

So he is feeling confident and declared he will win a slam. What would you prefer he said when asked if he will win one?

"Actually I dont think I will win a slam."

Where is the facepalm smiley when you need it.

by barrystar Fri 10 Feb 2012, 10:47 am

He's damned whatever he says it seems - Phil Mickelson said something similar before he won the Masters in 2004 (although perhaps his stature in Golf was a bit higher than Murray's in tennis).

by Josiah Maiestas Fri 10 Feb 2012, 11:02 am

“But you don’t have to worry, because I am going to win one. Actually, more than one.”

If you have video evidence of him saying that then it's much appreciatted.

by Calder106 Fri 10 Feb 2012, 1:09 pm

“It is brutal, but I know that my life in tennis will always be judged on that single question,” he says. “But you don’t have to worry, because I am going to win one.Actually, more than one.”

Unless there was a seperate interview I think Matthew Syed who wrote the article has used a bit of journalistic licence here. This converation seems to have come from a BBC 5 Live program which was broadcast last night and you can find on podcast (see Jonathan Overend) on which Mattew Syed was one of the stage party. What is said in the quote above has a lot of similarities to the conversation between about 11 and 15 minutes in. However Murray does not say the first bit in bold above. I think it is Syed himself or Overend. Murray chips in in a laughing voice that he will will one for sure (so the quote is correct there). He then goes on to talk about Federer and Nadal and how they are regarded as greats of the game and the fantastic year Djokovic had last year. He goes on to say IF he could get a few slams then he could be mentioned in the same breath as them. (he doesn't say actually more than one).

I didn't hear the show nor have I listened to the full podcast and as I have said earlier maybe there was a different interview so he may have fully said as quoted above. However apart form the actual way it is reported it sounds very similar to the portion of the show I've described.

Anyway listen for yourself if interested. I'll try and listen to the whole podcast sometime as covers much more that this.

by **laverfan** Fri 10 Feb 2012, 1:12 pm

hawkeye wrote:Murray is not my favourite tennis player but he is so in need of good coaching advice sometimes I can't help myself...

May I gently suggest refraining from writing on subjects which contain your least favourite subject and pick something which is closer to what you are passionate about.

It is not good for oneself to be constantly writing about the least favourite subject(s). It can cause severe self-esteem and self-confidence issues. Wink

Would you care for some writing advice from Lendl? Very Happy

SA:Federer::Hawkeye:Murray.

by newballs Fri 10 Feb 2012, 1:34 pm

Just to add a little bit of balance to this one did anyone else catch the Murray clan (Andy, Jamie and naturally enough Judy) on Radio 5 last night.

Probably nothing better than hearing these things from the horse's mouth so if you have the odd 90 minutes to spare here's the link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01bnfdw/5_live_Sport_An_Audience_with_Andy_Murray/

If you can put up with that rather irritating Johnathon Overend and his sycophantic ways actually contains some interesting insight. Ivan obviously couldn't make it so nice of Judy to step in!

by hawkeye Fri 10 Feb 2012, 1:42 pm

laverfan

Sometimes the best advice can come from someone who has a little emotional distance don't you think? I wasn't trying to hide the fact that Murray isn't my favourite player but the advice offered was genuine.

Take a step back and try and forget that it was me that offered the advice. Do you think Andy gets any benefits from such talk? I don't in fact I think he gets "negatives" from it. He comes across like the Murray Fan from newballs link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItlmLSb5Vxc&feature=related

As for Lendl. Of course if he has some writing tips I would be willing to listen. It pays in life to keep an open mind...

Josiah Maiestas and Calder106

Your both suggesting that Murray has been misquoted. I only have the quote from The Times but he has said similar stuff in the past. IMO Murray and his PR team has the British Press eating out of his hands and him "blowing his own trumpet" is a line both him and his PR team have chosen to go with. Who knows what Lendl thinks. As I've said I think it is a mistake. He has nothing to gain from this bravado and much to lose...

by newballs Fri 10 Feb 2012, 1:45 pm

calder106 sorry missed your link about the program before posting the above.

Only caught bits of the discussion myself so missed that Andy quote. Agree that the whole interview is worth listening too. And YES even a hardened critic like myself found that I was agreeing with a lot of what he said. For what it's worth IMO he came over very well but I can't help that lingering feeling that his mother always has to be there in the background pulling the strings.

by Guest Fri 10 Feb 2012, 1:46 pm

Hawkeye, what would you have preferred Andy to say? That he didnt think he would win a slam?

by Josiah Maiestas Fri 10 Feb 2012, 1:52 pm

Andy is faltering under the pressure because of his mother. She should stay away from tournaments and allow Andy to man up. Since Roger's mother started coming to his matches in the slams his results have been worse. It is no coincidence.

by hawkeye Fri 10 Feb 2012, 2:01 pm

Y I Man wrote:Hawkeye, what would you have preferred Andy to say? That he didnt think he would win a slam?

If I was Andy's coach I would have preferred him to say that he's working hard, that it would be a dream to win one and that he will do his best. What's difficult about that?

by noleisthebest Fri 10 Feb 2012, 2:11 pm

Murray's proven he's no media wizzard by now. At least, he's honest and doesn't play mind games.
Honesty and truth initially can hit you like cold wind, but once you've recovered, you like it , don't you Smile

by newballs Fri 10 Feb 2012, 2:21 pm

Listening to the relevant bits Andy was rather cornered into what he said by Syed

MS: everyone will regard this magnificent career as a failure if he (Andy) doesn't win one
PAUSE
AM: I'm going to win one... don't worry

Previously though Judy had shown what it's all about when she revealed she hadn't been able to watch the match but had received nothing but positive comments about the way Andy had played. Apologies for saying this but it sounded like a parent's verdict at the end of a parents' evening discussing little Johnny's progress that year.

by Calder106 Fri 10 Feb 2012, 2:50 pm

Agree with you Newballs that he probably needs to distance himself a bit more from Judy. Hopefully now he is working with Lendl he will be listening more to him. In the case of this interview though it was run through the auspices of the Set4Sport initiative which Judy is quite involved in.

by break_in_the_fifth Fri 10 Feb 2012, 2:51 pm

He should have said he plans to win 10.

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Fri 10 Feb 2012, 3:14 pm

I don't think this as a case of being misquoted. Murray as his history with media suggests, does keep saying such things. He said about reaching #1 when for a very brief period be reached #2. Remember the match fixing in tennis thing, plan for a strike etc etc. Going by what he said after the AO semis loss, I'm not surprised he said this. He is saying these more to himself and wants his fans to believe him. I don't think he himself believes it. He only like to think it. If one believes in something he doesn't need to keep telling it every time, to media and especially things like winning . Let the racquet do the talking. Why talk too big about wining more than one when he hasn't even won a single one as yet. I don't see anyone talking like that. But hey!, this is Andy Murray. Players all talk about a good chance, playing well etc. not like that I'm catching up or I'm going to win a slam or many slams.

by newballs Fri 10 Feb 2012, 3:55 pm

raiders have to agree but then if you're constantly asked if and when you're going to win a slam it is an awkward one to answer. If he said "I'll give it my best shot" then he'd be criticised by others for that approach too.

What he probably needs to do is think twice about any soundbites he's prone to give and as you say let his tennis do most of his talking for him. Once he's beaten a top 3 player other than Nadal in a slam then perhaps he's entitled to sound off.

by banbrotam Fri 10 Feb 2012, 4:22 pm

barrystar wrote:He's damned whatever he says it seems - Phil Mickelson said something similar before he won the Masters in 2004 (although perhaps his stature in Golf was a bit higher than Murray's in tennis).

You make a good point, I remember 'Big Phil' getting loads of flack for that and then going on to win his first major

After all Hawkeye (who sounds remarkably similar to an annoying pneumatic drill type person, who was on the 606 boards - who's name alludes me) previously there was far too much of "I'm not worthy" from Andy, which though nice and respectful, some of us suspect was how he felt

For me these comments come as a great positive. Suddenly, in the space of 5 months (as we shouldn't forget that the 'new' (or renewed!!)Murray first surfaced when he beat Nadal in the autumn) we've gone from a player who seemed to doubt as to whether he could win a slam to one who thinks he will win several

Andy has many critics. Nearly all of whom, misread his character - but even those would admit that he's not prone to blowing his own trumpet for the sake of it

And actually he is equivalent in status to Mickleson in 2004 - as usual we don't dare to appreciate that

by banbrotam Fri 10 Feb 2012, 4:35 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:I don't think this as a case of being misquoted. Murray as his history with media suggests, does keep saying such things. He said about reaching #1 when for a very brief period be reached #2. Remember the match fixing in tennis thing, plan for a strike etc etc. Going by what he said after the AO semis loss, I'm not surprised he said this. He is saying these more to himself and wants his fans to believe him. I don't think he himself believes it. He only like to think it. If one believes in something he doesn't need to keep telling it every time, to media and especially things like winning . Let the racquet do the talking. Why talk too big about wining more than one when he hasn't even won a single one as yet. I don't see anyone talking like that. But hey!, this is Andy Murray. Players all talk about a good chance, playing well etc. not like that I'm catching up or I'm going to win a slam or many slams.

It would be great if people actually listened to the full extracts of Andy's alleged 'faux pas' before commenting.

For instance I never heard him ever utter the words "plan a strike". I do remember him getting asked a direct question about if striking was being considered

I also don't remember him saying that he thought he would (emphasised, becasue there is a key difference between that and 'go for') reach No.1

"If one believes in something he doesn't need to keep telling it every time, to media and especially things like winning" Yep! I suppose when asked constant questions about your chances, he should keep saying that he's the 4th best by a distance and having getting beaten every time by his rivals and no forehand or serve to speak of, then he has no chance Whistle

Alternatively he could refuse to answer

Alternatively, he could refuse not to take part in such a feature - that would help greatly of course, given that it would give the media something new to negative about and we can forget about the World Cup 2006

If only life could be as simple as people like Raiders, obviously think it is Erm

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Fri 10 Feb 2012, 5:30 pm

banbrotam wrote:
It would be great if people actually listened to the full extracts of Andy's alleged 'faux pas' before commenting.

I'm not sure why would that be needed. I already mentioned that I don't think Murray has been misquoted. I do expect him to say such things to media.

banbrotam wrote:
For instance I never heard him ever utter the words "plan a strike". I do remember him getting asked a direct question about if striking was being considered

The only player with whom a possibility of strike was in news is Andy Murray. He said he has spoken to other players. But lets not bring this old topic again.

banbrotam wrote:
I also don't remember him saying that he thought he would (emphasised, becasue there is a key difference between that and 'go for') reach No.1

yes, unless Murray specifically says the very exact words, its impossible to know what he is trying to say. He was on that occasion was being too much of big mouth blowing his trumpet like on this occasion.

banbrotam wrote:

"If one believes in something he doesn't need to keep telling it every time, to media and especially things like winning" Yep! I suppose when asked constant questions about your chances, he should keep saying that he's the 4th best by a distance and having getting beaten every time by his rivals and no forehand or serve to speak of, then he has no chance

I've seen lots of players who have been asked about their chances of winning the up coming Grand Slam, but I never have seen anyone say things like what Andy says. He can say it little more diplomatically like he is playing well, feeling confident and is going to try his best. And he also said things like getting closer to the top3. I never heard anyone say like that either after a loss. Why does he need to start counting his chickens even before the eggs hatch. This is strange.

by banbrotam Fri 10 Feb 2012, 8:42 pm

Raiders

I hazard a guess that as we hear every utterance that Andy says, given that we're likely to be scribed at more than say what the Serbs are saying to Nole or, years ago, the Czech's to Lendl - then there is more room for 'amazement'

Nothing Andy has said, is particularly remarkable for such a player of his status, with the possible exception of him saying he deserved to be No.2, which he clearly didn't

Westwood, Monty, Faldo are just three other such sporting stars who every words were / and are microscopically examined to a ridiculous degree

I note, you've not suggested exactly what he should do, to ensure he gets the exact balance you think he lacks

by legendkillar Fri 10 Feb 2012, 10:51 pm

I'm not sure why would that be needed. I already mentioned that I don't think Murray has been misquoted. I do expect him to say such things to media.

I don't think a half arsed article of what is said holds any creditability. Unless of course you choose to abuse it down to a dislike for someone

The only player with whom a possibility of strike was in news is Andy Murray. He said he has spoken to other players. But lets not bring this old topic again.

Ummm wrong. Rafael Nadal mentioned first and then Andy Murray and Andy Roddick jumped on the bandwagon. Facts first please

yes, unless Murray specifically says the very exact words, its impossible to know what he is trying to say. He was on that occasion was being too much of big mouth blowing his trumpet like on this occasion.

Hmmm seems you want to blow your trumpet and he is not allowed to. Strange thinking.

I've seen lots of players who have been asked about their chances of winning the up coming Grand Slam, but I never have seen anyone say things like what Andy says. He can say it little more diplomatically like he is playing well, feeling confident and is going to try his best. And he also said things like getting closer to the top3. I never heard anyone say like that either after a loss. Why does he need to start counting his chickens even before the eggs hatch. This is strange.

4 comes after 3. How about he says I am nearer to number 5? If he is falling away at the latter stages of tournaments with the players ranked 1,2 and 3 I would say that was close. Unless I am wearing my rather crap coated glasses.

by Josiah Maiestas Fri 10 Feb 2012, 11:09 pm

Dunno about you LK. But when Fed said in the past he's getting closer to Nadal on clay it didn't fill with me confidence. I'd rather Murray said after losses to Nadal/Djokovic/Federer that 'it's a missed opportunity to reach the final/win the tournament.

Overall though I can see what hawkeye is doing trying to attract Murray fans into verbal battleground. Whistle

by hawkeye Fri 10 Feb 2012, 11:45 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Dunno about you LK. But when Fed said in the past he's getting closer to Nadal on clay it didn't fill with me confidence. I'd rather Murray said after losses to Nadal/Djokovic/Federer that 'it's a missed opportunity to reach the final/win the tournament.

Overall though I can see what hawkeye is doing trying to attract Murray fans into verbal battleground.

Huh? Well no! I did say what I was trying to do. Despite Murray not being my favourite player he appears to be getting such poor advice that I feel forced to help. Many of his fans are quite happy for him to sound like the Murray tennis fan in the link posted by newballs in their article "Ultimate Murray Argument". Do you think Murray should follow the so called Murray fans advice or mine?

by Guest Sat 11 Feb 2012, 12:56 am

Y I Man wrote:... Where is the facepalm smiley when you need it.

Spoiler:

by Calder106 Sat 11 Feb 2012, 1:47 am

hawkeye wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:Dunno about you LK. But when Fed said in the past he's getting closer to Nadal on clay it didn't fill with me confidence. I'd rather Murray said after losses to Nadal/Djokovic/Federer that 'it's a missed opportunity to reach the final/win the tournament.

Overall though I can see what hawkeye is doing trying to attract Murray fans into verbal battleground.

Huh? Well no! I did say what I was trying to do. Despite Murray not being my favourite player he appears to be getting such poor advice that I feel forced to help. Many of his fans are quite happy for him to sound like the Murray tennis fan in the link posted by newballs in their article "Ultimate Murray Argument". Do you think Murray should follow the so called Murray fans advice or mine?

Don't know what you are saying here Hawkeye. If you listen to the podcast refered to earlier he shows lots of respect to Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. If you read The Times it reads different as big parts of what he actually said on the podcast are missing, including who brought up the subject first.. Pesonally I would rather believe the spoken word by the actual player than the written interpretation.

Btw I've no issues with Matthew Syed who is in my opinion a good journalist who has played at a high level in his sport so therefore knows what it is all about. He also knows a lot about the psychological side of playing at top level.

by hawkeye Sat 11 Feb 2012, 7:49 am

Calder106

I agree Matthew Syed is a good journalist and as an ex sportsman himself must have an extra degree of understanding. He is also working for a British newspaper that goes out of its way to portray Murray in a favourable light. I'm not sure if you read any of the other stuff in The Times yesterday but it was all "glowing". How he loves his Mum, his brother lots of positive stuff about his game and prospects. There were even some soft focus pictures of him hugging his mum.

So why do you think Syed would twist what Murray said or feed him a line to get the quote “But you don’t have to worry, because I am going to win one. Actually, more than one.” ? I can only comment on what he reportedly said. Why should we assume he didn't say it?

Do I sense that you agree with me that it was unwise to say such a thing if indeed he did say it?

by Calder106 Sat 11 Feb 2012, 10:17 am

If he did say as reported then I don't think it was the best thing to say. However the written word does not show the question that was asked, the context it was asked in, and the tone of voice used. For instance when you hear the clip in the podcast where Murray says 'Don't worry I'm going to win one for sure' it is clearly said in a light-hearted way.

I don't think that Matthew Syed is trying show him up badly. He is probably trying to show that Murray is still positive about the future even after his latest defeat. I still think it's a lift though from the show which has been edited slightly.

Anyway lets leave it at that. No point in stretching this out further.

by banbrotam Sat 11 Feb 2012, 12:30 pm

hawkeye wrote:Calder106

I agree Matthew Syed is a good journalist and as an ex sportsman himself must have an extra degree of understanding. He is also working for a British newspaper that goes out of its way to portray Murray in a favourable light. I'm not sure if you read any of the other stuff in The Times yesterday but it was all "glowing". How he loves his Mum, his brother lots of positive stuff about his game and prospects. There were even some soft focus pictures of him hugging his mum.

So why do you think Syed would twist what Murray said or feed him a line to get the quote “But you don’t have to worry, because I am going to win one. Actually, more than one.” ? I can only comment on what he reportedly said. Why should we assume he didn't say it?

Do I sense that you agree with me that it was unwise to say such a thing if indeed he did say it?

The most sensational thing about this discussion is how anyone can think that a player who has reached the last 5 Slam finals - now makes an annual appearance in the final (2010/11), beat the GOAT in their last two Masters finals and bageled Nadal in their last meeting is wrong for having the confidence to say "But you don’t have to worry, because I am going to win one. Actually, more than one.”

Fed says the same thing about himself!! We can agree that the GOAT comes from a better pedigree, but is he so much more justified saying at age 30, than a player still to reach his peak

No. It's the usual let's take any words Murray states and make them sound negative or silly, a very lazy way of having a discussion. After all take any words that person speaks and they can be twisted to suit whatever agenda someone wishes to have

by Calder106 Tue 09 Jul 2013, 1:04 pm

Remembered this thread the other night whilst celebrating Andy's victory. So thought I would look it up. It was soon after he lost in the AO semi to Nadal in 2012. I've copied the bit I think most relevant :

“The problem in the semis or final is not nerves; it is staying in the moment. The temptation is to start thinking about victory, about what would happen if you could just win the next few points or games. But that is deadly, because you stop thinking about tactics and the other things that really matter. The trick is to stop your mind running away.”

“It is brutal, but I know that my life in tennis will always be judged on that single question,” he says. “But you don’t have to worry, because I am going to win one. Actually, more than one.”

Well now he has got two it maybe should be retitled "Andy Murray a Man of his Word"

by banbrotam Tue 09 Jul 2013, 1:13 pm

Calder106 wrote:Remembered this thread the other night whilst celebrating Andy's victory.

Well now he has got two it maybe should be retitled "Andy Murray a Man of his Word"

by barrystar Tue 09 Jul 2013, 1:50 pm

hawkeye wrote:
Murray is not my favourite tennis player but he is so in need of good coaching advice sometimes I can't help myself...

Who'd have known it - step forward Ivan "hawkeye" Lendl

by bogbrush Tue 09 Jul 2013, 1:56 pm

barrystar wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
Murray is not my favourite tennis player but he is so in need of good coaching advice sometimes I can't help myself...

Who'd have known it - step forward Ivan "hawkeye" Lendl

Has anyone ever seen them together?

by CaledonianCraig Tue 09 Jul 2013, 2:01 pm

bogbrush wrote:
barrystar wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
Murray is not my favourite tennis player but he is so in need of good coaching advice sometimes I can't help myself...

Who'd have known it - step forward Ivan "hawkeye" Lendl
Has anyone ever seen them together?

Here perhaps?

Oh Andy Dont! 2wdxafk

by R!skysports Tue 09 Jul 2013, 5:00 pm

Calder106 wrote:Remembered this thread the other night whilst celebrating Andy's victory. So thought I would look it up. It was soon after he lost in the AO semi to Nadal in 2012. I've copied the bit I think most relevant :

“The problem in the semis or final is not nerves; it is staying in the moment. The temptation is to start thinking about victory, about what would happen if you could just win the next few points or games. But that is deadly, because you stop thinking about tactics and the other things that really matter. The trick is to stop your mind running away.”

“It is brutal, but I know that my life in tennis will always be judged on that single question,” he says. “But you don’t have to worry, because I am going to win one. Actually, more than one.”

Well now he has got two it maybe should be retitled "Andy Murray a Man of his Word"

Classic

Bringing this up might make someone choke on their warm milk

by Guest Thu 11 Jul 2013, 12:22 am

My god theres a response from Tenez here... i nearly had a heart attack

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