If Wales win a slam this year?

by Shifty Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:02 pm

I realised that if Wales win a slam this year it will make this Welsh generation just as successful as the 1969-1979 legends.
During that era we won 3 Grand Slams, 5 Triple crowns and outright championships, and beat Australia twice.

The only team who beat Wales in Cardiff between 1968 and 1982 were New Zealand who won there twice, no other country managed it.
In those 10 years between 1970-1979, we beat England 9 games in 10. We beat Scotland 8 out of 10. Ireland were beaten 8 times with 1 draw in 10. France were a bit better as we beat them 6 times with 1 draw in 10.

Clearly this generation is not as good as the 70's guys, but if we can do 3 Slams, then at least in that respect we could call this a golden era for Welsh rugby, especially since it is harder to succeed in the professional game than it was in the amateur era.

Hell if we can do 2 more before 2015 then this will be our best ever decade! Whistle

by red_stag Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:32 pm

Alyn, its a very good point.

3 Grandslams in 7 years would be an outstanding achievement yet there will be those who'll try and belittle it in comparison to the "legends" of old.

It would certainly be a modern golden era for Wales and should be celebrated now rather than certain fans continually harping back to the "good old days".

by Huwball Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:42 pm

If we manage a grand slam...

There would be so many intolerable Welsh fans on here it would be embarrassing. Tumbleweed

But let's be realistic - If, and this is a big IF we beat England, I don't think France will roll over and let us play them off the park. Sad

It would be nice but let's not count our chickens

by Gibson Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:07 am

Wales wont beat France in Paris. It wont happen. England are 50/50 at Twickers. So. Dont get carried away yet. Its decent side, A young developing side. But nowhere even near as good as the 70's side. Get a large grip Alyn.

by Taylorman Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:09 am

AlynDavies wrote:

The only team who beat Wales in Cardiff between 1968 and 1982 were New Zealand who won there twice, no other country managed it.
In those 10 years between 1970-1979, we beat England 9 games in 10. We beat Scotland 8 out of 10. Ireland were beaten 8 times with 1 draw in 10. France were a bit better as we beat them 6 times with 1 draw in 10.

Really...? Thats amazing...did not know that. Heres me thinking it was the presence of the Welsh in the Lions 71 and 74 that gave them that aura as other than that we seemed to handle them ok. didn't know they were that dominant results wise... thumbsup

by overlordofthewest Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:22 am

Gibson wrote:Wales wont beat France in Paris. It wont happen. England are 50/50 at Twickers. So. Dont get carried away yet. Its decent side, A young developing side. But nowhere even near as good as the 70's side. Get a large grip Alyn.

Certainly won't beat France in Paris this year seeing as we're playing them in Cardiff.

by Gibson Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:30 am

Shoite. True. Check before you post Gibbo. Too busy with the France v Ireland fiasco. 3 Welsh games at home too. Wales for the SLAM so.

France & Ireland have to play 3-in-a-row now. That will bu88er em both. Its all set up.

Lose it and it's your best chance gone for years.

by Woodstock Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:23 am

yeah since 2008, so long ago Erm

by Gibson Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:29 am

Woodstock wrote:yeah since 2008, so long ago

But your regions - are still abysmal.

Who knows. One day, ye may even become a proper Country.

But. I dont think so. Far too in love with, and happily owned by - the English.

by ChequeredJersey Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:06 am

Not sure how sensible that would be economically. Let's see how this Scottish referendum goes first shall we?

by Gibson Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:20 am

Chequered, we'll not not upset Alyn right? But yes, lets wait on the Scottish vote.

The Paddies? Well, we fought and died for it. We actually are a proper, self-defined, phokked-up, independent race. The Welsh? They moan a lot and do nowt about it.

I think they like being ruled. It allows them to moan - without any reponsibilty for it.

Bless em.

There will always be the Low Value Cup.

by Woodstock Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:21 am

Gibson wrote:
Woodstock wrote:yeah since 2008, so long ago

But your regions - are still abysmal.

Who knows. One day, ye may even become a proper Country.

But. I dont think so. Far too in love with, and happily owned by - the English.

Proper country? my word, are you Irish Gibson? Thank God for Welsh Prime Ministers aye hahahaha We are as proper as they get son. Now crawl back under your stone and stop insulting nations.

by Woodstock Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:22 am

DAVID L GEORGE nuff said, or you'd still have red phone boxes Yahoo

by ChequeredJersey Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:31 am

I predict this conversation being stopped in a hurry...

by Gibson Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:39 am

Cheq.

Cheers man. I just deleted a virtual incendiary-device.

Bit pished. But love to bring em out to play.

Must stop.that.com. guinness

by Woodstock Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:44 am

Gibson wrote:Cheq.

Cheers man. I just deleted a virtual incendiary-device.

Bit pished. But love to bring em out to play.

Must stop.that.com.

Pop into a few pubs in North Wales and discuss. See how you fare hahahaha braveboy.

by Gibson Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:50 am

I love Wales. Most of my closest rugby friends are there.

Love the way ye play. Love the way ye party. Love the way ye are - with some exceptions.

Balance. Its all about the balance, man. Like Lydiate, Warburton and Faletau. zen

Credu.

by majesticimperialman Thu 16 Feb 2012, 5:46 am

If Wales winh a Grand Slam this year. it will be a miracle.

It will also be because of the weather, what with France and Ireland having to play 3 games in a row.

Why not waite and see If, If you beat England first, before you even think about Grand Slams.

by **Biltong** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 6:12 am

From 1968 to 1982 Wales won 30 out of 37 matches, with 2 draws and 5 losses at home for a home success rate of 84%, and away Wales played 34 test matches winning 13, losing 18 and drawing 3 for a 43% away record, their total matches were 71 matches played, winning 43 matches, losing 23 and drawing 5 for a total winning percentage of 64%.

In contrast, Wales since 2000 has had a 53% home record, a 37% away record and a total home and away record including world cups on neutral ground of 47%.

I think your golden era of from 68' to 82' is quite safe. Wink

by Gibson Thu 16 Feb 2012, 7:43 am

Alyn,
In answer to your question, and as ye bloody Welsh are obsessed with SLAMs and are not happy just winning 6-N Championships...

Yes, I think Wales will win the SLAM this year.

Who's going to stop ye?

Comparing this team with the 70's team. I dunno man. I saw em play. It was rugby-porno tbh. 15 men - all individually sublime and in sync with each other. For the Lions too.

But, this team has something special about them and they are growing nicely. Give it time.

Credu.

by eirebilly Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:00 am

Wales have a very decent chance on winning a GS this year. France have only played Italy so we will have to wait and see how they go next up and against the Irish but Wales would be my favourites for the GS

by Shifty Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:31 am

Gibson wrote:Wales wont beat France in Paris. It wont happen. England are 50/50 at Twickers. So. Dont get carried away yet. Its decent side, A young developing side. But nowhere even near as good as the 70's side. Get a large grip Alyn.

I think you might of missed the point of my topic, which is that if this Welsh team do win the slam they would of emulated the feats of our greatest ever generation of players and done it in 7 years not 10!

by slartibartfast Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:39 am

Can we beat England first please?

I thought after the last two grandslams the press would stop going on about the 70s

Ps. Funny how countries want independence and then join European federation

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:46 am

AlynDavies wrote:I realised that if Wales win a slam this year it will make this Welsh generation just as successful as the 1969-1979 legends.
During that era we won 3 Grand Slams, 5 Triple crowns and outright championships, and beat Australia twice.

The only team who beat Wales in Cardiff between 1968 and 1982 were New Zealand who won there twice, no other country managed it.
In those 10 years between 1970-1979, we beat England 9 games in 10. We beat Scotland 8 out of 10. Ireland were beaten 8 times with 1 draw in 10. France were a bit better as we beat them 6 times with 1 draw in 10.

Clearly this generation is not as good as the 70's guys, but if we can do 3 Slams, then at least in that respect we could call this a golden era for Welsh rugby, especially since it is harder to succeed in the professional game than it was in the amateur era.

Hell if we can do 2 more before 2015 then this will be our best ever decade!

AD, a third grand slam would certainly put the current group's achievements as far as GS's go on a par with the 70s crew, but there's all their other achievements (highlighted above) which have not been matched - that being said, that may not happen in the modern era, so doesn't detract from what the current group has managed

by bedfordwelsh Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:49 am

Gibson wrote:Wales wont beat France in Paris. It wont happen. England are 50/50 at Twickers. So. Dont get carried away yet. Its decent side, A young developing side. But nowhere even near as good as the 70's side. Get a large grip Alyn.

Gibson,

Good job we playing them in Cardiff then

by SecretFly Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:51 am

The only problem I have is with this line:

"I realised that if Wales win a slam this year it will make this Welsh generation just as successful as the 1969-1979 legends."

You say that and then you go on to disprove the 'just as' bit with the rest of your post. Successful yes - just as successful, no.

by **Biltong** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:52 am

AlynDavies wrote:
Gibson wrote:Wales wont beat France in Paris. It wont happen. England are 50/50 at Twickers. So. Dont get carried away yet. Its decent side, A young developing side. But nowhere even near as good as the 70's side. Get a large grip Alyn.

I think you might of missed the point of my topic, which is that if this Welsh team do win the slam they would of emulated the feats of our greatest ever generation of players and done it in 7 years not 10!

With a significantly poorer home record. The golden era team, dominated teams at home, it was a fortress.

This past decade Millenium stadium has been no where near as strong.

The question is how do you balance the importance of a trophy with that of a poor home record?

1969 Wales 1st and a triple crown.
1970 wales combined first with France.
1971 Wales grandslam
1972 Wales leads the tournamnet, but never completed due to political unrest in Dublin
1973 a draw, all teams win 2 matches, Wales on points difference leads the table. Shared by all nations
1974 Wales 4th
1975 Wales wins
1976 Wales Grandslam
1977 Wales 2nd
1978 Wales Grandslam
1979 Wales Triple Crown
1980 wales tied for 2nd

An awesome period for Wales.

Compare that to

2000 Wales 4th
2001 Wales 4th
2002 Wales 5th
2003 Wales 6th
2004 Wales 4th
2005 Wales Grandslam
2006 Wales 5th
2007 Wales 5th
2008 Wales Grandslam
2009 Wales 4th
2010 Wales 4th

The thing about a great side, is a group of players that dominate for a specific period, now if you look at the welsh side for over a decade since 1968, there would have been a core of players which was the foundation of a great side.

Winning a grandslam and then coming 2nd last for a few years, then winning a grandslam and then coming 4th for a few years, does not a great side make.

If the current side staty together, perhaps they can start a new dominant era for Wales, they certainly have the potential.

by Guest Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:05 am

I would probably be happier winning a test series in Australia this year than winning a grandslam.

After all this years 6 nations is completely devalued am I right? Its after a world cup, teams are rebuilding, weather is cold, France have less of a break and so on..

by SecretFly Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:12 am

Correct Ironmike, ...whoever wins this season, even the GS, will probably have been 4th best side in real terms.... when you subtract all the rebuilding and frost and French moans and Irish whimpers, and Scot's sweat, and English arrogance ( Wink

) you just always have to include that one or the English would feel they were snubbed..... where was I? English arrogance or downright unsettling lack of it! ______ and, Welsh nostalgia.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:17 am

The problem we have had over the last decade is the old 'all or nothing' syndrome.

We have had very little cocnsistency:

04 4th
05 GS
06 5th
07 5th
08 GS
09 4th

by fa0019 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:20 am

Winning a GS is good but it hardly means much in the global game... Wales record for all of their plaudits against SH sides is still woeful.... 2 wins in 25 matches vs. 3N sides.... that is the worst record since 2005 of all 6N sides bar Italy.

France 6 wins in 23 (26%)
England 5 wins in 24 (21%)
Ireland 4 wins in 17 (24%)
Scotland 2 wins in 11 (18%)
Wales 2 wins in 25 ( 8%)

Hardly the record of a vintage team & era.

This side has potential and they should be congratulated for going to places such as Dublin and (maybe??) Twickenham and coming home with victories.... but until they start beating 3N sides regularly at home.... let alone away, the mentioned records will be pretty meaningless.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:25 am

People forget however that even our 'Golden Era' never beat the All Blacks and in those days Australia were nowhere near the force they have become.

by fa0019 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:35 am

bedfordwelsh

If thats the case where would you rank England in the early 00's compared to the legends then?

From 2000-2003 England won 35 out of 40 matches against all 4N & 6N sides inc. 12 in a row (with 5 away) against 3N sides.

They won 3 6N championships, 2 Triple Crowns, 1 Grand Slam and 1 RWC.

Surely there is no better record in European rugby then that in history?

by eirebilly Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:37 am

4 in 17 for 24% for Ireland. Thats not too bad at all compared to the rest. I was expecting to be one of the worst if truth be known.

Thank god for South Africa Wink

by **Biltong** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:39 am

eirebilly wrote:4 in 17 for 24% for Ireland. Thats not too bad at all compared to the rest. I was expecting to be one of the worst if truth be known.

Thank god for South Africa

and Paul Honiss. Doh

and not travelling away from dublin. Headscratch

by bedfordwelsh Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:39 am

fa,

I think its hard to compare players, let alone teams from different generations.

England in the early 00's were by far and away the best and most consistent team around with regular wins against the SH teams both home and away.

In the 70's they were very poor but again in those days the games against the SH were more one of and special, as I said Australia weren't the team they have become and SA was banned until 95.

by SecretFly Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:40 am

fa0019 wrote:bedfordwelsh

If thats the case where would you rank England in the early 00's compared to the legends then?

From 2000-2003 England won 35 out of 40 matches against all 4N & 6N sides inc. 12 in a row (with 5 away) against 3N sides.

They won 3 6N championships, 2 Triple Crowns, 1 Grand Slam and 1 RWC.

Surely there is no better record in European rugby then that in history?

But then European rugby is second fiddle and that was a mighty impressive innings by a second fiddle side. The problem with European rugby is that it loves itself and navel gazes far too frequently. The SH sides love rugby and are more often dedicated to proving the point than navel gazing.

by Guest Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:40 am

majesticimperialman wrote:If Wales winh a Grand Slam this year. it will be a miracle.

It will also be because of the weather, what with France and Ireland having to play 3 games in a row.

Madge, all teams in the tournament generally play five games in a row before the end. Headscratch

I am not sure why you have mentioned Ireland as having to play three games in three weeks, as although it is true you can only really try devaluing our potential GS because of France having to do that seeing as we have already beaten Ireland. Plus in theory France will remain more battle hardened, so it depends which way you look at it. With that, I would be disappointed to lose to France at home anyway (even without their "three games in a row"), because we should be looking to be pretty unbeatable at home.

Don't you think it is a little contradictory of you to say wait until we have beaten England first before we start thinking about it, after you are already trying to devalue it Madge?

by eirebilly Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:41 am

biltongbek wrote:
eirebilly wrote:4 in 17 for 24% for Ireland. Thats not too bad at all compared to the rest. I was expecting to be one of the worst if truth be known.

Thank god for South Africa
and Paul Honiss. and not travelling away from dublin.

Jaysus PK, that was a quick response Laugh

You knew i was after you didnt you Wink

by **Biltong** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:41 am

eirebilly wrote:
biltongbek wrote:
eirebilly wrote:4 in 17 for 24% for Ireland. Thats not too bad at all compared to the rest. I was expecting to be one of the worst if truth be known.

Thank god for South Africa
and Paul Honiss. and not travelling away from dublin.

Jaysus PK, that was a quick response

You knew i was after you didnt you

But of course mate. boxing

by damngoodOvalball Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:44 am

Gibson wrote:
Woodstock wrote:yeah since 2008, so long ago

But your regions - are still abysmal.

Who knows. One day, ye may even become a proper Country.

But. I dont think so. Far too in love with, and happily owned by - the English.

Nice grenade you've thrown there Gibbo! 1.29am eh? Few Oranjebooms and a reefer?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:46 am

damngoodOvalball wrote:
Gibson wrote:
Woodstock wrote:yeah since 2008, so long ago

But your regions - are still abysmal.

Who knows. One day, ye may even become a proper Country.

But. I dont think so. Far too in love with, and happily owned by - the English.

Nice grenade you've thrown there Gibbo! 1.29am eh? Few Oranjebooms and a reefer?

by Shifty Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:47 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:fa,

I think its hard to compare players, let alone teams from different generations.

England in the early 00's were by far and away the best and most consistent team around with regular wins against the SH teams both home and away.

In the 70's they were very poor but again in those days the games against the SH were more one of and special, as I said Australia weren't the team they have become and SA was banned until 95.

I don't think it's fair to compare players from different generations either, because some were amateur and professional, they played under different rules too, in the 70's there was far more room on the pitch for backs to play and nearly all the forwards were involved in rucks and mauls, putting forwards in the defensive line to plug gaps wasn't really done to the extent it is today.

The best team may well of been the England team in the early 90's, didnt they win 3 slams on the trot? I think Wales messed it up for them in 1993 when we won 10-9 in Cardiff.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:49 am

AlynDavies wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:fa,

I think its hard to compare players, let alone teams from different generations.

England in the early 00's were by far and away the best and most consistent team around with regular wins against the SH teams both home and away.

In the 70's they were very poor but again in those days the games against the SH were more one of and special, as I said Australia weren't the team they have become and SA was banned until 95.

I don't think it's fair to compare players from different generations either, because some were amateur and professional, they played under different rules too, in the 70's there was far more room on the pitch for backs to play and nearly all the forwards were involved in rucks and mauls, putting forwards in the defensive line to plug gaps wasn't really done to the extent it is today.

The best team may well of been the England team in the early 90's, didnt they win 3 slams on the trot? I think Wales messed it up for them in 1993 when we won 10-9 in Cardiff.

If you spoiled their '93 GS effort, and we won the slow-walk GS in '90, then I think it can only have been two?

by fa0019 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:49 am

Bit of a myth to say that SA were banned until 1995.

From 1960 - 1990 they played over 80 tests... admittedly most in the 60s but they still played NZ 8 times in the 70s losing only 2.

SA were easily the most dominant side of the era.... from a rugby point of view its a real shame that they were prevented from playing... though understandable why they were banned eventually.

It was only really from mid 80s that their participation in rugby was removed.

Wales were probably at best the 3rd best side in the world during the 70s.

by **Biltong** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:53 am

fa0019 wrote:Bit of a myth to say that SA were banned until 1995.

From 1960 - 1990 they played over 80 tests... admittedly most in the 60s but they still played NZ 8 times in the 70s losing only 2.

SA were easily the most dominant side of the era.... from a rugby point of view its a real shame that they were prevented from playing... though understandable why they were banned eventually.

It was only really from mid 80s that their participation in rugby was removed.

Wales were probably at best the 3rd best side in the world during the 70s.

FA it seems we are still rebuilding back to our best after the ban, it is just taking longer than we expected. Very Happy

by bedfordwelsh Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:53 am

The yard stick now is defintely beating the SH teams especially away from home but was it the same yard stick before the inaugral WC in 87.

by fa0019 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 10:02 am

biltongbek

You're right dude... SA was the best team in history until they came back from the 84-92 ban. That 8 years killed SA rugby in terms of experience and 95 was won on emotion rather than skill.

Perhaps now that PDV is gone SA can erase much of the damage he did.

Well until SARU de-franchises the lions and allows then 10th best side in SA to take its place for political reasons.... hmm, didn't the kings lose 88-0 to the lions the other day. It will be sheer embarrassing when the come in in 2013.

Let them earn their way I say.

by **Biltong** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 10:07 am

Yep, SA rugby is fraught with danger, but I read the 5 Super Rugby Franchises are standing together that they will not mege, dissappear and will not allow the inclusion of the Kings to harm them in any way.

There has even been talk of starting a super 6 competition on the basis of

Border, SWD, EP and Franchise in waiting (combining players that otherwise have not made a super franchise and then the best team from the western conference and the best team from the eastern conference of the USA.

Playing five away and 5 home matches.

by bsando Thu 16 Feb 2012, 10:22 am

AlynDavies wrote:Hell if we can do 2 more before 2015 then this will be our best ever decade!

I think the only question mark on that is your record against the SH

Wales have beaten Australia twice since 1991 with one draw. Last win was 2008.

They have beaten SA once since 1994

The last time they beat NZ was in 1953

If Wales beat Aus twice this summer then I think that Wales will have achieved something very special, far better than a GS.

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