Ireland to pursue hosting of RWC 2023?

The IRFU had a few interested parties observing events in New Zealand last year - not just on the Irish team's performance, but also to make notes on how the Kiwis had managed to deliver on the NZRU RWC bid that IRFU members had agreed to support some years ago.

The IRFU are interested to see if a bid could be put together for RWC 2023 - either on their own, or perhaps with Scotland if necessary. Wales and England could be considered, but given they have hosted previous RWC, this would be unlikely to be a runner. The fact that England also rebuffed overtures from the Irish and Scottish unions for their 2015 bid may discount this possibility.

The Ireland union may also get some political support this time round from Irish Sports and Tourism Minister, Leo Varadkar, who's apparently keen to have the potential for the project sussed out fully.

Varadkar may be a bot of a Leinster fan, but he hasn't been exactly gung-ho in managing his tourism portfolio - delivering less than whelming speeches and policy decisions to the embattled tourism industry in recent months. However, it would appear he's got the bit between his teeth on this one, perhaps because it's so long term, he doesn't have to worry about the political consequences of such a move given the tab for a RWC starts with €80m plus before a ball gets kicked in anger.

Leo might do well to chat to his erstwhile colleague and failed presidential candidate, Gay Mitchell, who many years ago suggested that Ireland should bid for the Olympics. At least, though, Leo is setting his sights slightly lower.

Any bid by the IRFU - the Irish Rugby Football Union that represents the island of Ireland - would necessarily require the involvement of other sporting organizations in order to supply the necessary stadia infrastructure - the GAA in particular and possibly the soccer associations in the Republic and Northern Ireland. They would need at least 12 decent-sized stadia (minimum capacity 15,000 by NZ standards, though this may not fly in a more densely populated European fan circuit able and willing to travel.)

Some likely rebuilding/expansion work would need to be done/completed to bring some stadia up to an acceptable standard, however, there have been some early green shoots, which might lend support to this.

The Northern Ireland Executive has received a recent boost from UK coffers in helping to expand Ravenhill, home of Ulster Rugby, as well as giving the Ulster GAA nearly €75m to increasing Casement Park Stadium to a 40,000 seater making it the largest one in the province. Leinster have received private monies to expand the RDS a little further to bring it past the 20,000 mark. And Munster's Thomond Park is already at 25,000. Clearly Croke Park would have to be secured for the final and possibly the semi-final stages, with Lansdowne Road bringing up the rear for other large capacity matches.

However, GAA Semple Stadium in Thurles can seat 36,000 and another 15,000 standing; Pairce Ui Chaoimh in Cork holds 43,000, with 20,000 of those in seats. Fitzgerald Stadium in Killarney, a highly popular tourism destination holds 43,000 but only 9,000 of those are seated.

If the IRFU get some political juice behind them, Varadkar-flavoured, they might be able to open a few doors to start a discussion.

Fantastic. I hope they win the bid. Great for rugby and the game. I suspect 2027 or 2031 is more realsitic. That would allow a SH country to hold a cup and maybe another developing nation. It may be difficult given 2015 is in England.

My only request if they win is please, please, please only play the games in the Island. The trading of games in the cup, make bring up questions about the integrity of the process and deminish the event.

My only request if they win is please, please, please only play the games in the Island. The trading of games in the cup, make bring up questions about the integrity of the process and deminish the event.

I don't see why an Irish/Scottish bid would diminish the integrity of the WC. And the hop from Scotland to N.Ireland is tiny - no worse than going between Islands in NZ...

A shared RWC between Ireland and Scotland would be very good i feel. I see no problem with going over to Scotland and viceversa.

I hope that they get it

It would be nice for Ireland, but could Ireland actualy afford it?
That is the big question It was said before the 2011 Rugby World Cup that New Zealand was going to make a big loss for hosting the tournament.

If Ireland could afford to do it, then good luck to them in their bid

Well, the first thing we know is the WRFU will offer support only if they can host matches in Millenium Stadium.

Seriously an Irish bid would be fantastic for Rugby, and pretty darned great for Ireland as well. I would enthusiastically support (though the IRB aren't asking me at the moment). Are we talking about an IRFU bid or a Republic bid. I'd guess this might be a bit tricky. After all the Republic won't invest in the North?

But, in general, the questions are somewhat similar to those which New Zealand faced. Ability to fund upgrades to stadia (standing room does not count for the IRB and benches would have to be replaced). Ability to house the fans/tourists (are there sufficient decent quality hotels/inns and so on). Infrastructure to move teams and fans.

To me the investment, thinking on the high side of let's say as much as €250 million is an investment in tourism in the future. Most likely they will not recapture all those costs at their RWC but would be paid back in the future. This is different that New Zealand since Ireland is easy and inexpensive to travel to.

If the concept of an all-Ireland bid becomes too costly, or if the hotel situation is a bit challenging, then I like the idea of an Irish led Celtic bid. If there can be a Celtic League, why not a Celtic bid? This would have major matches is existing large stadia - and even have some matches played in Italy which supports the growth of Rugby there. Imagine matches played in Dublin, Cork, and Belfast. Also matches in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Cardiff, and Milan/Rome. What a fantastic event that would be.

docter grey

I would hope that If, Ireland are going to make a bid for the 2023 rugby world cup, The it would be a bid for the (WHOLE) Of Ireland.

(The whole COUNTRY) But then again i do wish Ireland good luck.

Agree mate, I hope so too.

I'm sure it would be a bid that incorporated ALL IRFU 'territory'. It'd be kind of a smack in the lip to the Northern players who would be asked to play for Ireland if one section of one IRFU region was denied participation and the monetary benefits of travelling fans spending money before, during and after games.

Someone said a while back that the Irish caricature in this 606 is that we're 'insane' Well, yes - but not dumb.

Now, having said all that.............. the hosting of a WC wouldn't be as high on my agenda as using the money envisaged for a WC bid to further increase rugby awareness and participation in this country..and for it to be used to enhance the consistency and competitiveness of our Provinces and team Ireland itself.

I'd be a might embarrassed if come 2023 we had spent a bucket load of money on the bid, another bucket on the promotion of a successful bid, and another bucket on the running of the Competition itself, if by then Irish sides had sunk back into the mire of also rans at European level and if the International side had bedded down into another 60 or 70 years of woodenspoon contenders.

If the potential bid is a serious one I hope priorities are not over-ridden in the greedy rush for 2023 tourism figures.

I'd love Ireland to get it. And, while I'd obviously like games to be in Wales, I don't agree with this sharing of games across nations. For me, even as a Welshman, Wales playing games at the MS when the world cup was in France was ridiculous. Also, us hosting the world cup in 1999 but farming games out across the UK was ridiculous too. If it was officially a UK tournament and bid then fair enough, but I don't like the voting to get games thingy that goes on.

Anyway, it would be great to see it in Ireland.

I think this would be a great idea. Ireland does tourism very well and with the GAA stadia probably has the facilities. I would hope its just for Ireland and not split with anyone else as I think thats better for the cup.

In sporting yes it would be great. But didn't the Irish economy nearly collapse recently. Do you really think Ireland could afford it? I know it's 10 years away but I think Ireland should sort itself out first.

Well Britain is hosting the Olympics in a year when warnings about their credit rating are becoming ominous.

You might even say that Ireland's last boom was a direct result of the psychological rise that football was giving us back then. Maybe a new goal will drag us back onto our feet quicker than sitting in a gloomy room and waiting for the clouds to pass over.

You can't stop life happening just because you've been dropped into a crisis.

London didnt win the Olympics whilst in recession though. And the uk economy was never in need of a bailout.
No you can't stop life going on, but you do have to make cuts and tighten belts, hosting a major sporting event is the opposite.

Correct me if I'm wrong but as the UK officials were accepting the Olympic Flag from the Chinese hosts at the end of the 2008 Olympics, wasn't the UK in recession and knew it would be a struggle to achieve the objectives they wanted to achieve on the budgets they had initially projected for them?

Of course, the UK is a much bigger economy than Ireland and the Olympics is a much bigger deal, but the stimulating boost the construction work alone has given the UK economy in the intervening years is proof that big projects in lean times can often, counter-intuitively perhaps, be the stepping stones that often help an economy return to health or at least to stabilse.

Like you, I think money in Ireland might be better spent in the period between now and 2023 than looking for the Rugby WC...but looking objectively, as a project that's doable if government really got behind it, then yes I'd say it is doable.

You do raise some good points and I suppose if the ecomy is in a state of recovery the construction could be big boost. But if the economy isn't moving in the right direction it could cripple it. I don't pretend to be an expert. Just raising concerns

wonder_man wrote:You do raise some good points and I suppose if the ecomy is in a state of recovery the construction could be big boost. But if the economy isn't moving in the right direction it could cripple it. I don't pretend to be an expert. Just raising concerns

Irish economy is doing reasonably well (as good as most EU countries) - exports are on the up. The problem is we have a lot of money to pay back for the banking losses. In 10 years time, I suspect we will be a lot better off.

SecretFly wrote:I'm sure it would be a bid that incorporated ALL IRFU 'territory'. It'd be kind of a smack in the lip to the Northern players who would be asked to play for Ireland if one section of one IRFU region was denied participation and the monetary benefits of travelling fans spending money before, during and after games.

It would not work like that - host cities (like Limerick, Cork, Killarney, Belfast, Derry - anyone with the infrastructure) would put in bids (with money) to host games in their locality. Dublin City Council would also be expected to contribute a few bob even though its obvious that games will go there. It really wouldn't be that different a situation than a joint bid for Scotland-Ireland supported by the Govs. of NI, ROI & Scottish Executive.

By the way, Failte Ireland market the island of Ireland. There are any number of cross-border boards doing this kind of thing, especially food where Ireland has an excellent reputation.

I for one think this Irish split has gone on for too long.. But that's another story.....

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I'm sure it would be a bid that incorporated ALL IRFU 'territory'. It'd be kind of a smack in the lip to the Northern players who would be asked to play for Ireland if one section of one IRFU region was denied participation and the monetary benefits of travelling fans spending money before, during and after games.

It would not work like that - host cities (like Limerick, Cork, Killarney, Belfast, Derry - anyone with the infrastructure) would put in bids (with money) to host games in their locality. Dublin City Council would also be expected to contribute a few bob even though its obvious that games will go there. It really wouldn't be that different a situation than a joint bid for Scotland-Ireland supported by the Govs. of NI, ROI & Scottish Executive.

By the way, Failte Ireland market the island of Ireland. There are any number of cross-border boards doing this kind of thing, especially food where Ireland has an excellent reputation.

To clarify my original post: it is an all-island bid by the IRFU which represents the four provinces. Any govt backing sought by IRFU would likely seek the support of both jurisdictions.

Minor correction - Failte Ireland are a state body focused on ROI. Tourism Ireland is one of the six all-island bodies set up under the Good Friday Agreement with a remit to promote the island abroad.

Pot Hale wrote:
Minor correction - Failte Ireland are a state body focused on ROI. Tourism Ireland is one of the six all-island bodies set up under the Good Friday Agreement with a remit to promote the island abroad.

Should have remembered it would be highly unlikely for an organisation promoting the two jurisdictions would have Irish in its name.

After all the Republic won't invest in the North?

The Republic is always quite keen to invest in the North. And any opportunity for cross border cooperation is jumped at.

I do wonder where the money would come from though.

IMF: So, Ireland, how are all those cuts going? Getting that enormous deficit down, like we talked about?
Ireland: Eh....
IMF: What's up? You look like you want to tell me something.
Ireland: Eh yeah. We're hosting the Rugby World Cup. It's only a hundred million euros or so. But don't worry. We'll just scrap pensions altogether and still meet your targets.
IMF: Oh dear.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

After all the Republic won't invest in the North?

The Republic is always quite keen to invest in the North. And any opportunity for cross border cooperation is jumped at.

I do wonder where the money would come from though.

IMF: So, Ireland, how are all those cuts going? Getting that enormous deficit down, like we talked about?
Ireland: Eh....
IMF: What's up? You look like you want to tell me something.
Ireland: Eh yeah. We're hosting the Rugby World Cup. It's only a hundred million euros or so. But don't worry. We'll just scrap pensions altogether and still meet your targets.
IMF: Oh dear.

The IMF would get their money back on the tax take from drink alone


Key findings of Rugby World Cup impact and benefits are {Deloitte & Touche):

* £610 million - £2.1billion total economic impact to a Host Nation, including indirect impact ripple effects.
* £260 million - £1 billion in Total Gross Value Added (the accepted measure of additional economic impact) to the Host Nation
£200 - £810 million in direct expenditure into the Host Nation Economy by RWC visitors
* £100 million potential additional sales tax income to a Host Nation Government
* 44-day event leads to high visitor numbers and impact
Limited stadium investment is required compared to other global sports events (such as Olympic Games, FIFA World Cup, Euro 2008 and Commonwealth Games)
* Impact spread across whole of Host Nation due to spread of matches

Rugby World Cup 2007 delivered:

* Over 4 billion global cumulative TV audience in 238 countries
* 2.3 million paying spectators
* 94% average stadium utilisation
* 350,000 international visitors
* 28% increase in registered Rugby players following tournament

From a purely selfish point of view and not taking into account economy, fairness or anything like that I prefer major tournaments in rugby (and other sports) to be somewhere else and not on these isles.

For example, having the Olympics at home doesn't really excite me as I want to see how another country and culture handle an event and see more "exotic" places and stadia.

I also think that playing games in other countries (basically as a thank-you for votes) should be avoided if possible. If a new bid cannot guarantee all games in that country then no thanks.

SafeAsMilk wrote:From a purely selfish point of view and not taking into account economy, fairness or anything like that I prefer major tournaments in rugby (and other sports) to be somewhere else and not on these isles.

For example, having the Olympics at home doesn't really excite me as I want to see how another country and culture handle an event and see more "exotic" places and stadia.

Yes, but then exotic isn't something that is the definition of palm trees, hammocks, white sand beaches and bikinis...exotic is something usually just far away and different. And so, brace yourself!!!, but to people in China, Japan, Bolivia, and other far flung corners of the world, boring, rain swept northern Europe IS exotic. So you have to keep things fair, if you get the grass skirts and tropical diseases one year then they have the right to experience bad tempered bus drivers and daytime Antiques TV the following year

SafeAsMilk wrote:From a purely selfish point of view and not taking into account economy, fairness or anything like that I prefer major tournaments in rugby (and other sports) to be somewhere else and not on these isles.

For example, having the Olympics at home doesn't really excite me as I want to see how another country and culture handle an event and see more "exotic" places and stadia.

I also think that playing games in other countries (basically as a thank-you for votes) should be avoided if possible. If a new bid cannot guarantee all games in that country then no thanks.

England is the only country with the facilities to host a modern world cup. I wonder if it shouldn't be staged here indefinitely until the rest of the rugby playing nations mature sufficiently to host the tournament without bankrupting themselves.

SecretFly wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:From a purely selfish point of view and not taking into account economy, fairness or anything like that I prefer major tournaments in rugby (and other sports) to be somewhere else and not on these isles.

For example, having the Olympics at home doesn't really excite me as I want to see how another country and culture handle an event and see more "exotic" places and stadia.

Yes, but then exotic isn't something that is the definition of palm trees, hammocks, white sand beaches and bikinis...exotic is something usually just far away and different. And so, brace yourself!!!, but to people in China, Japan, Bolivia, and other far flung corners of the world, boring, rain swept northern Europe IS exotic. So you have to keep things fair, if you get the grass skirts and tropical diseases one year then they have the right to experience bad tempered bus drivers and daytime Antiques TV the following year

I did say "from a purely selfish point of view". Though I do think those Bolivians need more exposure to David Dickinson like he needs more exposure to a sun lamp

miteyironpaw wrote:
England is the only country with the facilities to host a modern world cup. I wonder if it shouldn't be staged here indefinitely until the rest of the rugby playing nations mature sufficiently to host the tournament without bankrupting themselves.

+1 !!!!

I think if England got a sequence going - of continuous top drawer world sporting events - then you could do away with that problematic Aviva Rugby League and just have a World Event League London - sponsored by Hunter boots and affectionately called The Welly
And if the London Olympics then suffered the ignominy of being...*gulp* relegated from The Welly in any given year...then it could be given to another country until it broke back into the Hunter League again.

Well spotted, mitey!

I just call it as I see it, but thanks for the seconding SF.

miteyironpaw wrote: England is the only country with the facilities to host a modern world cup. I wonder if it shouldn't be staged here indefinitely until the rest of the rugby playing nations mature sufficiently to host the tournament without bankrupting themselves.

Which is presumably why England is using a stadium in Wales then?

The USA has much more "modern" facilities than England I would suspect. And a few other countries besides. But then you knew that already....

To be honest, I would be perfectly content with a Celtic bid led by Ireland.

Two pools in Ireland, one in Scotland, one in Wales with semi-finals in Murrayfield and the Millenium, 3rd Place Playoff in Lansdowne Road and Final in Croke Park.

GAA would open their doors for a chance to show their facilities off and get a hefty percentage of each gate.

I know people hate dividing between countries but you can very easily get between the Celtic Nations. All the venues would be closer together than an entirely French or Aussie RWC.

Not for rugby PH. American football pitches are only 2/3 the width of a rugby field.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

I do think those Bolivians need more exposure to David Dickinson like he needs more exposure to a sun lamp

There you go, I never knew! ... I never knew it was a lamp and always thought David was just a Bolivian, filling in time as a cad whilst waiting for the Olympics to start up!

I don't want to burst the proverbial bubble, but I would expect SA to have a strong case to host the RWC in 2023. It would be 28 years since 1995.

SA had a football world cup recently though. I guess that would be taken into consideration.

Also, NZ have threatened not to show up to England, I guess frightened of having another match scheduled under Wayne Barnes. Would NZ also frightened of a return to South African cuisine Biltongbek?

mitey, they can bring their own cook.

As far as the football world cup, it has nothing to do with the rugby.

England has a world cup coming up only a few years after the Olympics.

England 2015
Japan 2019
South Africa 2023
Ireland 2027

Yeah doable

Although would it not be better for SA to have a nice round figure memorial to 1995 rather than a 28 year anniversary? How about 40 years anniversary and that would tie in with 2035

I don't like how casually we plan a series of four yearly events, by the way. I'm only thinking one year at a time!

By 2035 I'll be too old to enjoy it mate.

biltongbek wrote:By 2035 I'll be too old to enjoy it mate.

Yeah... that why I think I'll just stick with dreaming of winning the Six Nations for now. Let the future take care of itself.

can't see the gaa going for it but we might get croke park. But could do two pools in Ireland and two in Scotland. i wouldn't give the welsh union a sniff.

Scotland will get the worst crowds of all.

Like a good few have already admitted here - I don't like the idea of sharing the hosting job. Your country either has the resources to hold it in its entirety or it should hold its hand up and say 'can't do it'.

But intrigued DOD. Why Scotland and not Wales?

The welsh union have at best a slightly removed relationship with the Scottish and Irish unions over the league and seem to spend a lot of their time looking across the Severn longingly, a little bit like the rest of the little province (I mean its not a real country). They have a history of going on solo runs when it comes to the wc and good luck to them.