Ireland 2023/24 - RWC and Onwards

So another season is over, and we're getting ready for Andy Farrell's announcement this coming week for his initial RWC squad that will be used in upcoming warm-up games against Italy (5 Aug) , England (19 Aug) both in Aviva, and then a whittled down finalised RWC squad to play Samoa in France on 26 Aug.

The U20s RWC kicks off in South Africa in July.

After Munster's well-deserved win against Stormers, Farrell & Co may have paused for thought as to who comes into the wider squad beyond the nailed-on members. The 42 man RWC Training Squad announced is:

Forwards (22)

Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University)
Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers)
Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne)
Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere)
Gavin Coombes (Munster/Young Munster)
Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College)
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf)
Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf)
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy)
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch)
Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne)
Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians)
Joe McCarthy (Leinster/Dublin University)
Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution)
Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch)
Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD)
Cian Prendergast (Connacht/Corinthians)
James Ryan (Leinster/UCD)
Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne)
Tom Stewart (Ulster/Ballynahinch)*
Kieran Treadwell (Ulster/Ballymena)
Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD)

Backs (20)

Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians)
Caolin Blade (Connacht/Galwegians)
Ross Byrne (Leinster/UCD)
Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon)
Jack Crowley (Munster/Cork Constitution)
Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster)
Ciaran Frawley (Leinster/UCD)*
Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster)
Mack Hansen (Connacht/Corinthians)
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers)
Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD)
James Lowe (Leinster)
Stuart McCloskey (Ulster/Bangor)
Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen)
Calvin Nash (Munster/Young Munster)*
Jimmy O’Brien (Leinster/Naas)
Jamie Osborne (Leinster/Naas)*
Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD)
Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College)
Jacob Stockdale (Ulster/Lurgan)

Let the provincial in-fighting begin

I can't see there being many surprises, you've covered all the options I can think of Pot.

Hodnett could replace Timoney and Kleyn replace Treadwell, and even as an Ulster fan I would struggle to argue too much. I wouldn't put Crowley ahead of Byrne (R) yet, but they would have to be the back-ups at 10.

McCloskey should definitely be there (as should Henderson, I haven't totally lost my provincial bias), but Stockdale and Baloucoune haven't shown enough to demand selection in view, and personally I would take either Nash or Daly before Earls.

Unclear wrote:Let the provincial in-fighting begin

I can't see there being many surprises, you've covered all the options I can think of Pot.

Hodnett could replace Timoney and Kleyn replace Treadwell, and even as an Ulster fan I would struggle to argue too much.  I wouldn't put Crowley ahead of Byrne (R) yet, but they would have to be the back-ups at 10.

McCloskey should definitely be there (as should Henderson, I haven't totally lost my provincial bias), but Stockdale and Baloucoune haven't shown enough to demand selection in view, and personally I would take either Nash or Daly before Earls.

Don't have much provincial bias to fight with, Unclear. I'd question whether Larmour or O'Brien should come in at the expense of some of the Munster and Ulster players. I like Baloucounne, Nash and Haley. They have a feistiness and spikiness about them that's worth considering. Equally, I'm not convinced about Kelleher and think Herring and Stewart should be ahead of him. Agree with you on the Hodnett/Timoney switch, and think Kleyn deserves a chance but think he's been too long out of camp.

And I think Bealham and O'Toole should back up Porter and Furlong with Healy and Kilcoyne sitting further back in the bus.

Ireland squad
Forwards: Ryan Baird, Finlay Bealham, Tadhg Beirne, Jack Conan, Gavin Coombes, Caelan Doris, Tadhg Furlong, Cian Healy, Iain Henderson, Rob Herring, Ronan Kelleher, Dave Kilcoyne, Joe McCarthy, Peter O'Mahony, Tom O'Toole, Andrew Porter, Cian Prendergast, James Ryan, Dan Sheehan, Tom Stewart, Kieran Treadwell, Josh van der Flier.

Backs: Bundee Aki, Caolin Blade, Ross Byrne, Craig Casey, Jack Crowley, Keith Earls, Ciaran Frawley, Jamison Gibson-Park, Mack Hansen, Robbie Henshaw, Hugo Keenan, James Lowe, Stuart McCloskey, Conor Murray, Calvin Nash, Jimmy O'Brien, Jamie Osborne, Garry Ringrose, Jonathan Sexton, Jacob Stockdale.

My guess is baring injury non of the uncapped players will make it.
Stewart could nudge Herring or a dubious fitness Kelleher out of the frame.
Treadwell and McCarthy fitting out out if Henderson not 100% otherwise neither will go.
Prendergast and Coombes fitting for one slot
Blade wont make it
Stockdale, and Earls fitting fitting for one slot. Earls only there if Stockdale come up short which could easily happen.

So my guess is the planned 9 to miss out are
Earls, Blade, Treadwell, McCarthy, one of Coombes and Prendergast and the 4 uncapped players.

On an Ulster front that leaves Herring, O'Toole, Henderson, McCloskey, Stockdale - 5
Connacht - 3 maybe 4
Munster - 6 maybe 7

The big yawning weakness is LH Healy and Kilcoyne - both well past it

Out of interest who do you think is going to be the backup fullback?
Are any of the other back 3 players considered as a 15?
I know Earls, henshaw, Hansen and Stockdale have all done a bit, but I'm not sure any are international 15s
So could we be looking at one of Frawley, Nash, O'Brien or Osbourne getting a few of the warm up games at the back?

Or are we all just hoping Keenan is actually unbreakable and will play every game

carpet baboon wrote:Out of interest who do you think is going to be the backup fullback?
Are any of the other back 3 players considered as a 15?
I know Earls, henshaw, Hansen and Stockdale have all done a bit, but I'm not sure any are international 15s
So could we be looking at one of Frawley, Nash, O'Brien or Osbourne getting a few of the warm up games at the back?

Or are we all just hoping Keenan is actually unbreakable and will play every game

Out of those, I reckon O'Brien and Hansen are the most suited, experienced in position and preferred.

It seems a bit silly that Kleyn is switching back. He’s an average international anyway but to play with Ireland in the previous one and SA in the upcoming one… That said, Tonga are looking really good.

Kleyn going to the last RWC was a big surprise as Toner was better than him as are Baird, Henderson, Ryan and Beirne so realistically he wasnt going to make this years squad. Im guessing he wont play for SA either as there are likely to be a few ahead of him there too.

mikey_dragon wrote:It seems a bit silly that Kleyn is switching back. He’s an average international anyway but to play with Ireland in the previous one and SA in the upcoming one… That said, Tonga are looking really good.

Excellent move by the Bok setup. The guys has been in and around a main rival set up for few years building up to the RWC and now you get to pick his brains, unsettle a chief pool rival. Lineout calls, pack tendancies, the underlying logic for what they want to achieve. Even if you just have him hold a tackle bag in practice.

I presume he gets guaranteed one cap? Just to lock the switch in permanently. If they just got him into the squad but didn't use for rugby championship, could the irish setup call him back up?

Yeah a good move no doubt in that regard, and he’ll feature in the warm-ups for sure. I think SA also have several locks better than him though.

Kleyn hasnt been in an Ireland squad in four years and never with Farrell as head coach nor Paul OConnell as forwards coach. Having him in the Boks squad isnt really any more of an advantage as having Jason Jenkins who plays for Leinster nor any of their other French nor English based players etc. He also isnt that good really. If anything Jenkins might be more useful.

True, but he does know a bit having featured for Munster and played many times against the other provinces. Jason Jenkins would be a better option for sure. I also think SA have a few locks better than him. I believe his last cap was an attempt to stop Ireland for capping him under the new laws.

Any one think Sexton will get a ban? I hadn't followed it at all but thought it was all done and dusted as the final was so long ago. Seems a mountain out of a molehill to me really.

yappysnap wrote:Any one think Sexton will get a ban? I hadn't followed it at all but thought it was all done and dusted as the final was so long ago. Seems a mountain out of a molehill to me really.

They're waiting for the referee & his assistants reports by all accounts. Some media outlets thinking he could get a mid range ban which would stand about 24 weeks which could include meaningful matches rather than consecutive weeks as part of the punishment.

Dylan Hartley got a 12 week ban for calling Wayne Barnes an f***ing cheat so I guess it'd down to what Sexton actually said. One might argue that Sexton had no business talking to the referee given he wasn't part of the Leinster match day set up.

It makes no difference if he was part of the squad or not you shouldn't abuse the refs. That said I'm sure he will get a ban but probably just miss some or all of the warm ups and that will be that. It will add plenty of unnecessary attention and pressure though because everything is exaggerated, ramped up and knives sharpened for a world cup. Farrell seems like a coach well equipped to manage such eventualities.

Collapse2005 wrote:It makes no difference if he was part of the squad or not you shouldn't abuse the refs. That said I'm sure he will get a ban but probably just miss some or all of the warm ups and that will be that. It will add plenty of unnecessary attention and pressure though because everything is exaggerated, ramped up and knives sharpened for a world cup. Farrell seems like a coach well equipped to manage such eventualities.

Ah I totally agree, my comments were more geared to he had even less reason to talk to the referee.

I'll be amazed if his ban doesn't extend into the RWC given he had 2 goes at the referee.

Depends on what he said in my view. Difference between having a go and saying you’re an f’ing disgrace if that is actually what he said. Thats almost as bad as saying youre a cheat.

Collapse2005 wrote:Depends on what he said in my view. Difference between having a go and saying you’re an f’ing disgrace if that is actually what he said. Thats almost as bad as saying youre a cheat.

I haven't seen or heard what he said but apparently he was involved in whatever happened at half time & then of course the pictures we've seen at the full time whistle.

Why would you expect him to miss some RWC games if you havent seen what he said? The half time incident was between players and staff preventing Rog from talking to the ref. It was mainly OGara and OBrien. Id say at most he will miss warm up games or they will get a fine.

If Sexton didn't verbally insult any officials then it's all media hype and click-bait. If however he did then they can't make allowances, bye bye Johnny and bye bye any chance Ireland have of getting to that elusive semi.
Maybe the IRFU shouldn't have been so keen to exclude the only truly viable next best Irish 10 for life.

Collapse2005 wrote:Why would you expect him to miss some RWC games if you havent seen what he said? The half time incident was between players and staff preventing Rog from talking to the ref. It was mainly OGara and OBrien. Id say at most he will miss warm up games or they will get a fine.

Because the entry point level for that sanction is 12 weeks & when the articles I have read suggest they will take into account meaningful games over fallow weeks, I fully expect him to miss part of the RWC i found guilty.

Sexton was involved at half time & as he was in a suit he had no place there as he wasn't part of the match day set up, not even a water carrier.

balls.ie wrote:The Irish Independent would soon report that that incident in question involved Leinster's Johnny Sexton and Sean O'Brien, as well as La Rochelle's Ronan O'Gara and Will Skelton.

It was also reported that Sexton confronted referee Jaco Peyper after the game.

ETA: Locking online Sexton told the officials "You're a f***ing disgrace"

Yes it was reported he said you are an F'ing disgrace (after the game 1 incident with a ref) as I said above which deserves a ban if true, probably 12 weeks which wont extend to the RWC. The other incident it hasnt been confirmed that he had any interaction with referees or exactly what his involvement was at all. Most reports suggest Rog and OBrien were the main actors.

Its meaningless to me that he wasnt in the match day squad as he is a key member of the team so is entitled to be there, unless you are aware of a specific rule against it.

Collapse2005 wrote:Yes it was reported he said you are an F'ing disgrace (after the game 1 incident with a ref) as I said above which deserves a ban if true, probably 12 weeks which wont extend to the RWC. The other incident it hasnt been confirmed that he had any interaction with referees or exactly what his involvement was at all. Most reports suggest Rog and OBrien were the main actors.

Its meaningless to me that he wasnt in the match day squad as he is a key member of the team so is entitled to be there, unless you are aware of a specific rule against it.

But he had no duties on that day, he wasn't a water carrier or someone bringing the tee on - he had no right to approach an official in such a manner.

Oakdene wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Yes it was reported he said you are an F'ing disgrace (after the game 1 incident with a ref) as I said above which deserves a ban if true, probably 12 weeks which wont extend to the RWC. The other incident it hasnt been confirmed that he had any interaction with referees or exactly what his involvement was at all. Most reports suggest Rog and OBrien were the main actors.

Its meaningless to me that he wasnt in the match day squad as he is a key member of the team so is entitled to be there, unless you are aware of a specific rule against it.

But he had no duties on that day, he wasn't a water carrier or someone bringing the tee on - he had no right to approach an official in such a manner.

Yes he didnt have a right to call the ref a disgrace but being part of the match day squad equally doesnt grant him the right. Thats a bit of a non story for me. Anyway how do you know he had no duties? He is part of the leadership group.

Im sure that there are those that would like to see him banned for the RWC but its quite unlikely to happen. There has also been so much speculation and hype about the incident with very little definitive confirmation of the facts. Lets see when the facts are confirmed.

Sexton is the club captain is he not, so surely he had duties on that day...

This is something they need to nip in the bud, as the half time incident also seems a bit nasty and unnecessary. I’m not sure what Leinster had to complain about at half time tbh, but things evened out in the second half. I’m sure both sides were looking to influence the ref in that incident and this is perhaps something that needs to be prevented.

FYI, some ref’s have been terrible this season and should be held accountable for it.

The Hartley one is a bit different as he has history. And calling a ref a cheat as you play is very different to possibly confronting them afterwards.

I can see Sexton getting 12 weeks or a bit more, reduced by half and potentially further reduced by mitigation such as a course or the player writing a letter to the ref etc. I can also see the ref not wanting to escalate, which would help Sexton. As a big ban might put more pressure on referees too.

How long can a ref delay filing their report? It should only take a couple of days.

Ireland will wilt at the rwc like always.

But other teams are genuinely threatened.

So, Sexton will be banned. The medjia will clutch their pearls and ask us to think of the children.

Meanwhile concussions will be brushed under the Matt because big games are coming up and nothing will be said.

Uncomfortable truth is Sexton was rash and emotional, shouldn’t have been within 20m of the ref. I wonder if the frustration is really that the injury is killed his chance of an rwc appearance anyway and this was just a cheap excuse to vent?

It appears ROG has been crying into his Guinness again. Is he interested in being Wales' next coach?

mikey_dragon wrote:It appears ROG has been crying into his Guinness again. Is he interested in being Wales' next coach?

There isn't a guinness big enough to hold the tears needed for that particular sh17show

Pete330v2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:It appears ROG has been crying into his Guinness again. Is he interested in being Wales' next coach?

There isn't a guinness big enough to hold the tears needed for that particular sh17show

What sh1t show? The loss to Toulouse? That was a great game. Thought Ntamak was quite average for most of the game then came up with an absolute gem of a try. I suppose as long as he does that he will be highly rated.

To be fair to La Rochelle too they have been involved in some highly entertaining games.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:It appears ROG has been crying into his Guinness again. Is he interested in being Wales' next coach?

There isn't a guinness big enough to hold the tears needed for that particular sh17show

What sh1t show? The loss to Toulouse? That was a great game. Thought Ntamak was quite average for most of the game then came up with an absolute gem of a try. I suppose as long as he does that he will be highly rated.

To be fair to La Rochelle too they have been involved in some highly entertaining games.

No, the sh17show is Welsh rugby. La Rochelle are very far away from a sh17show.

Ah right get you now. Dont know if you saw the top 14 final but it was an amazing game.

Interesting that Leinster will now have to get past La Rochelle at the group stages next year too if they want to win the champions cup.

If ROG is to paid in Guinness then I'm sure it can be arranged. I remember him being bitter after the 2009 Lions tour too. He was also given air time WRT the 2019 tour, not sure why, but he was still being bitter then. Gee, imagine being that arrogant. He seems an okay coach though, and assuming we clean up our mess then maybe we'll offer him the job of backs coach .

Collapse2005 wrote:Ah right get you now. Dont know if you saw the top 14 final but it was an amazing game.

Interesting that Leinster will now have to get past La Rochelle at the group stages next year too if they want to win the champions cup.

I did and it was indeed yet another amazing final, we've been well and truly treated this season in that respect. Finals that aren't cagey and dull, how modern
La Rochelle have become Leinster's bogey team. With other sides you'd say there'll be a mental block after the history they have but I reckon the Leinster guys will be out for blood. They won't take their defeats lying down. Look out ROG.

mikey_dragon wrote:If ROG is to paid in Guinness then I'm sure it can be arranged. I remember him being bitter after the 2009 Lions tour too. He was also given air time WRT the 2019 tour, not sure why, but he was still being bitter then. Gee, imagine being that arrogant. He seems an okay coach though, and assuming we clean up our mess then maybe we'll offer him the job of backs coach .

Of course he's arrogant and extremely competetive as well as a very bad loser. 3 things vital to extract the absolute best from someone be it a coach or a player.
Welsh rugby will be back, there's lots to learn from the current mess but there's no way Welsh rugby will be in the doldrums for long. After that you never know, we might let you borrow him for a wee bit

Yeah I imagine it wont be too long for Wales to become a force again, despite the mess it also wont be long for top coaches to be attracted to the Welsh job but it might take a bit of hard work and a fallow period before its a top ticket role again.

Pete330v2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If ROG is to paid in Guinness then I'm sure it can be arranged. I remember him being bitter after the 2009 Lions tour too. He was also given air time WRT the 2019 tour, not sure why, but he was still being bitter then. Gee, imagine being that arrogant. He seems an okay coach though, and assuming we clean up our mess then maybe we'll offer him the job of backs coach .

Of course he's arrogant and extremely competetive as well as a very bad loser. 3 things vital to extract the absolute best from someone be it a coach or a player.
Welsh rugby will be back, there's lots to learn from the current mess but there's no way Welsh rugby will be in the doldrums for long. After that you never know, we might let you borrow him for a wee bit

That's fair enough and he is fastly becoming a top coach. Gotta admire yours and his honesty too . Any idea what his current salary is? Not sure we could pay more than 400-500K per season for a coach - that's our ball park based on the current and previous.

It never ceases to amaze me how every thread on this forum becomes a discussion about Wales rugby.

Pot Hale wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how every thread on this forum becomes a discussion about Wales rugby.

And it would all be fine and dandy if they just let 606-contributors run it

Any word on the under-20s squad or when the RWC final squad is released?

Unclear wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how every thread on this forum becomes a discussion about Wales rugby.

And it would all be fine and dandy if they just let 606-contributors run it

Any word on the under-20s squad or when the RWC final squad is released?

Speaking of the U20s, I'm gutted it's not being broadcasted on any TV channels. I don't suppose there's any youtube channels showing it. Anyone know?

Pete330v2 wrote:

Unclear wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how every thread on this forum becomes a discussion about Wales rugby.

And it would all be fine and dandy if they just let 606-contributors run it

Any word on the under-20s squad or when the RWC final squad is released?

Speaking of the U20s, I'm gutted it's not being broadcasted on any TV channels. I don't suppose there's any youtube channels showing it. Anyone know?

Yes there is

https://youtu.be/KDf-m_6KBio

Also pretty sure it will be shown on virgin media sports tomorrow

Collapse2005 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

Unclear wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how every thread on this forum becomes a discussion about Wales rugby.

And it would all be fine and dandy if they just let 606-contributors run it

Any word on the under-20s squad or when the RWC final squad is released?

Speaking of the U20s, I'm gutted it's not being broadcasted on any TV channels. I don't suppose there's any youtube channels showing it. Anyone know?

Yes there is

https://youtu.be/KDf-m_6KBio

Also pretty sure it will be shown on virgin media sports tomorrow

Not all heroes wear capes. That's me sorted. Cheers

Playing out as expected so far. England have a number of impressive players but they play as individuals and Ireland play as a team. If the Irish 10 could kick it wouldn't be anywhere near as close. I thought he was supposed to be the second coming of Sexton but looks a bit loose in his play.

Looked like England had the nudge on at the scrum at the end of the half but the 9 never left it in long enough. CCS picking from the base of the scrum and then running against the wheel was also poor.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Playing out as expected so far. England have a number of impressive players but they play as individuals and Ireland play as a team. If the Irish 10 could kick it wouldn't be anywhere near as close. I thought he was supposed to be the second coming of Sexton but looks a bit loose in his play.

Looked like England had the nudge on at the scrum at the end of the half but the 9 never left it in long enough. CCS picking from the base of the scrum and then running against the wheel was also poor.

Prendergast is usual much more accurate off the tee but he definitely had an off day in that respect. As far as being the next Sexton, he's a bit to go yet to prove he can be but the potential is certainly there. He has a lot more in his bag of tricks than Sexton had at his age, Sexton was nowhere remotely close to the finished article at a similar age so time will tell. He's an extremely talented and confident individual but that doesn't always translate post U20s.
It was a great game, England have some frightening forwards and they beasted a very good Irish pack.
It was the first game and both sides were sloppy enough and weren't in their respective grooves but it was a very enjoyable battle.

Good win by Ireland U20.

Yeah great to get the bonus point in the end, SH sides getting thumped today.

Well Sexton is having a hearing on 13th July following his recent annoyance with refereeing.

That pitch is atrocious. Madness to think about playing 3 games in a row on it. These are adults, not u8s.