England vs Wales - Match ups.

The Back Three

Wales Likely - North - Halfpenny - Cuthbert.

England Likely: Ashton - Foden - Strettle

England's back three contains more pace, whilst Foden on his day can be electric, although was poor against Italy and Brown will feel unlucky to miss out, Ashton has looked out of sorts on the left wing, whilst Strettle has been solid if not spectacular. The Welsh wings will prove a real handful for England and they need to find a way to negate them. North is world class in attack - he has it all, pace, power and vision, however his defensive work-rate may need work on, whilst Cuthbert is also fast and powerful. Halfpenny has been goal kicking well, he's looked mostly solid under the high ball and there is no doubt he has gas and is creative in attack. Therefore I'd have to say that Wales have the edge here.

Centres

Wales Likely: Roberts - Davies

England Likely: Barritt - Tuilagi/Farrell - Tuilagi

The Welsh centre partnership is extremely potent and many have labelled both Davies and Roberts as a future Lions centre pairing. Davies is in the form of his life, both players have a physical presence and are strong ball carriers, both have a high defensive work-rate and both are surprisingly fast. England on the other hand must pick Tuilagi as he has the x-factor and could potentially damage Wales (both in attack and defence!) the problem is, who to play him with. If England pick Barritt at 12 they have a rock wall defensively and a player who will aim to get you across the gainline in a one dimensional manner. If England pick Farrell at 12, they can rely on his composed goal kicking, and in attack he may offer more creativity than Barritt although hasn't really had the chance to show this against Scotland and Italy, there will also be question marks surrounding whether his defence will be able to cope with the likes of North, Roberts and Davies running at him. Therefore I would pick Barritt and Tuilagi in the centres, I feel the could combine well together and would be rock solid defensively. Wales have the edge here by a clear margin.

Half Backs

Wales Likely: Phillips - Priestland

England Likely: Dickson - Hodgson/Youngs - Flood/Dickson - Flood

Both Welsh half backs are extremely dangerous, in defence Phillips acts as an extra flanker, whilst in attack he can ball carry effectively and provide good service. Priestland attacks the gainline, has a very strong kicking game and is solid in defence. England have a tough choice to make regarding scrum half - Youngs has been out of sorts, whilst Dickson has looked lively when he has come on and is buzzing for a start. Arguably the most important decision England need to make is at fly half, between Flood and Hodgson. Hodgson hasn't done anything wrong, he defended very well against Scotland and Italy, he didn't have the burden of goal kicking, whilst he has scored two opportunist charge down tries in two games, although he has struggled to ignite the England backline. I'd go with Flood, simply as Flood is an established international goal kicker - which means England can have Barritt and Tuilagi in the centres, whilst Flood also has the ability to get the backline moving and he can bring the best out of Ben Youngs and Manu Tuilagi. Tough call on Hodgson though. Wales again have the edge at half back.

Back Row

Wales Likely: Warburton (c) - Faletau - Lydiate

England Likely: Robshaw (c) - Morgan - Croft

Wales have potentially the best back row in world rugby. Lydiate is a traditional blindside who carries hard, has a huge defensive work-rate and does the grafting. Faletau has an even higher defensive work-rate than Lydiate which really says something, and he is a huge ball carrier, at 21 his potential is ridiculous. Warburton is also a fantastic player already, he is fast, powerful and can compete with the best in the world at turning the ball over at the breakdown. England in the back row are a work in progress, Robshaw playing at 7 is a traditional blindside - his work-rate is phenominal, however he lacks the scavenging skills and pace of an openside. Croft is an unorthodox blindside, who tends to go missing in games, however on his day he can be very effective, and his lineout skills are unquestioned. Morgan is a direct, powerful number 8 with a good defensive work-rate and deserves a chance to start. Again Wales have the edge here.

Second Row

Wales Likely: Evans - Jones

England Likely: Botha - Palmer

Evans is a solid lock, who tackles hard and carries well in the tight, whilst Jones looks a reborn player in the second row at the minute and really acts as an extra flanker around the pitch. England will look to gain the upper hand in the lineout with Palmer calling the shots and Croft able to help out, whilst Botha will look to make his physical presence felt around the park. The engine room of England's scrum may also be more effective than the Welsh with Botha a particularly strong scrummager. Therefore I feel England have the edge here.

Front Row

Wales Likely: Jenkins - Bennett - Jones

England Likely: Corbisiero - Hartley - Cole

There is no doubt on his day Jenkins is the best loosehead prop in the world especially around the park with his ball carrying, defence and handling particularly impressive. Jones is a powerful tighthead and Bennett may need to work on his consistency in the lineout, where England will target him. England's front row is also a work in progress - Corbisiero, Hartley and Cole have all scrummaged well against the Scots and Italians. Hartley has been very effective in the loose, his lineout has mostly been impressive, whilst Corbisiero and Cole will want to make more of an impression around the park. Even call in this department.

Conclusion

Wales have the upper hand in most departments, however England will look to dominate in the set-piece and if the right selections are made I can see England potentially pulling off an upset. (Funny to say that about a home game at Twickenham) Maybe I am just living in hope.

Robshaw's Barmy Army.

It will be no upset. Believe me. We have yet to see the talent of this England side unleashed. Clever coaching and conditions have seen to that.

If Wales can't switch their selections to fix their lineout they are in trouble, especially with a further weakened front row (it won't be Bennet).

I expect England to have an embarrassment of possession, dominate territory with a clever touch finding kicking game and to finally unbridle our unmatched (in the 6N) back three and giant mid-field.

I can't see Wales living with us this time.

I don't think Wales have scrummaged that well and with pop up hearlity in the front for England much will depend on ref interpretations.

As Mite has mentioned England need decent weather to be able to pass the ball beyond Hodgeson, if they can do that then tualgi has the class to do some damage, whether by breaking the gain line or causing injury to the defender.

Anyone know the teams are announced? Wales will probably be delayed 10mins before kickoff due to 75 calf strains.

slartibartfast wrote:
Wales will probably be delayed 10mins before kickoff due to 75 calf strains.

Amazing the power one or two idiots have in ruining threads...

Anther factor to think of - kicking. 1/2p is (or will be) a great player and has a long range boot but in reality he is an average kicker at best. He could well have 'one of those days' and take every chance he gets but he isnt as reliable as Flood or Farrell

At the risk of being criticesed for how I answer this post I think england's biggest problem is they lack cohesion, Wales have that.

If England can somehow find that cohesiveness it will be likely that they can win this one, if they however keep on playing like 15 inidividuals they will most likely lose.

A good original post and then a few truly lamentable contributions Unless of course the irony is lost on me, then I appologise.

I think Halfpenny is more than an average kicker. His kicking performance against Scotland was phenomenal, and I would honestly say he is more reliable than Flood.

Can't any kickers have 'one of those days' ??

Form says that Wales should win this but England at Twickers are a different beast. I honestly expect a very tight and close game.

If i was England i would pick Dickson 9, Farrell 10, Barritt 12 and Tuilagi 13. That may not sound like a great attacking line but it will certainly bulk up the English defence and that is where i feel the game will be won.

wow, I apologise for the use of an emoticon.

Monday morning indeed.

A good original post and then a few truly lamentable contributions Unless of course the irony is lost on me, then I appologise.

eirebilly wrote:

If i was England i would pick Dickson 9, Farrell 10, Barritt 12 and Tuilagi 13. That may not sound like a great attacking line but it will certainly bulk up the English defence and that is where i feel the game will be won.

That's exactly the backline I would go for, and as you say, it offers good defence as well as a blend of attacking prowess. My only concern is I don't think Lancaster will pick Farrell at 10 considering he's only played 12 so far and Flood's returning from injury. Barritt and Tuiliagi for me have to start in the centres, to cope with the size and power of the Welsh backline.

1/2p is a hugely consistent kicker, tis why he's been kicking for the Blues instead of Parks (and kicking is his main strength!)

Sure he might miss one or two, but he's less likely to let a miss effect him then say the likes of Flood or Priestland.

Halfpenny has come along in leaps and bounds with his goal kicking. 2 years ago i would have considered him purely a long range kicker and inconsistent overall but he has worked extremely hard and is now a very consistent goal kicker. Its the perfect situation for Wales as it relieves the pressure on Priestland and allows him to concentrate on getting the back line working.... Which he is doing very well so far.

As most are saying this looks a 50/50 game for most fans. Wales are the favourites but there's not much in it when you factor in home advantage. Any fans think that clear favourites are guaranteed a victory in the 6 nations need to go back and look at Wales v England 1999 when a shambolic welsh team somehow managed to win against a strong english team. Lets just hope for a cracking game, Wales will come and run it with power and pace as usual so England will have to come out and play, although something tells me they will play sensible set piece rugby using the percentage plays as their guideline. Should be a great match up.

Parks scored a try this weekend

Ulster

Sorry for the double post - all fingers and thumbs this morning. On a serious note I think England should sacrifice Barritt for Tuilagi. Not that he's played poorly, but Tuilagi offers more options.

if I were England I'd play Dixon, Hodgson, Farrell, Tuilgi

I expect a very tight game. England are more than capable of stepping up at Twickenham, but Wales have a real chance.

Think one of the most intriguing aspects of this game could be the front row battle. Jones and Jenkins are obviously world class, but Cole and Corbs are establishing themselves and have had a very impressive tournament so far. I think both Jones and Cole could significantly improve their loose game, and increase their carrying, much like Jenkins and Corbs bring to the table. It's going to be a brilliant battle up front, but with the big boy Ian Evans behind them, I think the Welsh boys could just shave it.

offload wrote:Sorry for the double post - all fingers and thumbs this morning.

No problem, it's just another lamentable post on this topic page

I think what people forget about 1/2p sometimes, is that he's goal kicked all his rugby career, all throughout age grade as well, he's always been 1st choice kicker. Wales obviously only used him before the for the long range stuff, but if he keeps kicking as he has been, I hope he's our first choice kicker for a long time

What I really want to see from Wales this weekend is an improvement with our lineout. I'd love to see what we could do if we secured clean and quick ball from there every time! We saw in Wales' 2nd try against Ireland how affective it can be when it works properly.

rugbydreamer wrote:I think what people forget about 1/2p sometimes, is that he's goal kicked all his rugby career, all throughout age grade as well, he's always been 1st choice kicker. Wales obviously only used him before the for the long range stuff, but if he keeps kicking as he has been, I hope he's our first choice kicker for a long time

What I really want to see from Wales this weekend is an improvement with our lineout. I'd love to see what we could do if we secured clean and quick ball from there every time! We saw in Wales' 2nd try against Ireland how affective it can be when it works properly.

In fairness dreamer, that should happen. Wales have played Ireland and Scotland, two of the most disruptive teams in the line outs so you were bound to lose a few. I dont think that Wales lineout is actually that bad to be honest. They were just put under incredible pressure by to very good teams in the lineout.

bluestonevedder wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

If i was England i would pick Dickson 9, Farrell 10, Barritt 12 and Tuilagi 13. That may not sound like a great attacking line but it will certainly bulk up the English defence and that is where i feel the game will be won.

That's exactly the backline I would go for, and as you say, it offers good defence as well as a blend of attacking prowess. My only concern is I don't think Lancaster will pick Farrell at 10 considering he's only played 12 so far and Flood's returning from injury. Barritt and Tuiliagi for me have to start in the centres, to cope with the size and power of the Welsh backline.

I honestly feel that defence is Englands best chance this weekend. Barrit has been very good defensively and not to shabby on attack, we all know what Tuilagi will bring to the field so that just leaves the 10. To me its between Flood and Farrell because England need a kicker. For all his good work, Hodgson will not be picked i feel.

Think the lineout looked a whole lot better when Ken Owens came on. He was impressive, both in the set piece and the loose. A more than capable replacement for Huw Bennet, who although he found some form at the WC, might be a little past his best.

Hmm, perhaps Billy. It's been our main weakness for years now though. And the likes of Croft have seriously disrupt that part of our game before as well.

If we start with Owens, he's going to be under huge pressure, and throwing in is the weakest aspect of his game. Adding to that we may only have Hibbard as back up and he isn't the strongest in the lineout either! No.2 could definitely be a weakness in the set piece for us, although I guess the likes of Owens will more than make up for it with is work rate in the loose.

bluestonevedder wrote:

offload wrote:Sorry for the double post - all fingers and thumbs this morning.

No problem, it's just another lamentable post on this topic page

Touché

eirebilly wrote:

I honestly feel that defence is Englands best chance this weekend. Barrit has been very good defensively and not to shabby on attack, we all know what Tuilagi will bring to the field so that just leaves the 10. To me its between Flood and Farrell because England need a kicker. For all his good work, Hodgson will not be picked i feel.

You're right about the defence. Some people are calling for Barritt to be dropped, but I think he would be sorely missed if SL did so! His work rate has been second to none, and hischannel is a brick wall- just what we need against this Welsh team. Take some of the defensive duties off of Farrell (although his defence very good) with a big centre pairing, and let him develop an attacking mindset.

I think it might help if we have 2 natural 2nd rows playing!!!! - Like Bluestone said Owens is a smooth operator with the lineout and around the park and he was my pick for Wales 2 years ago. Nice to see him getting some game time as he is a complete footballing hooker.

I know it has dreamer but throwing aside, Wales havent lost that many lineouts that i can remember this 6N?

It hasnt been spectacular but it has been effective. Too much pressure is put on the set moves from a line-out. Personally i would prefer a line out that is unspectacular but effective.

Barritt must start bluestone. To me he has been Englands best player so far.

eirebilly wrote:Barritt must start bluestone. To me he has been Englands best player so far.

Yep, him and Corbs for me are our players of the tournament I think. We'll see what combination SL has decided on come Thursday!

Yeah, i forgot Corbs. He has been very good as well

Ruby - as a Scarlet fan, I can definitely assure you that Owens' throwing in can have severe wobbly moments! He is, as he's getting older, recovring from these blips a lot more quickly.

his first throw in against Scotland was an absolute shambles, but where as before it would have gone to pieces for the entire match, he re-grouped and started throwing in well.

Billy - sure it doesn't need to be spectacular, but I don't like it when we lose lineout ball. Tis just handing the ball back to the opposition, and I like Wales to hold on to it as much as possible

Do you really think that SL will play Farrell at 10?

I cant see it, in which case he'll keep Farrell at 12 and will have to decide between Barritt and Tuilagi.

biltongbek wrote:At the risk of being criticesed for how I answer this post I think england's biggest problem is they lack cohesion, Wales have that.

If England can somehow find that cohesiveness it will be likely that they can win this one, if they however keep on playing like 15 inidividuals they will most likely lose.

Completely agree. There are still loads of selection calls to be made with this England team as well and, assuming at least a couple of changes to the starting lineup, this makes it an even bigger ask for England to 'click'. Even if they don't, though, I think they've shown enough heart to assume they won't roll over....but would expect Wales to win a tight game due to their greater cohesiveness and confidence in what they try to do.

But I'm still holding out hope.....maybe Charlie will bring his world class charge-down game?...

I can't see him playing him there- it's more wishful thinking. I think England's centre pairing has to be Barritt-Tuilagi for this game, but with all the media hype surrounding Farrell, I'm not sure whether he'll be dropped.

Adam wrote:

biltongbek wrote:At the risk of being criticesed for how I answer this post I think england's biggest problem is they lack cohesion, Wales have that.

If England can somehow find that cohesiveness it will be likely that they can win this one, if they however keep on playing like 15 inidividuals they will most likely lose.

Completely agree. There are still loads of selection calls to be made with this England team as well and, assuming at least a couple of changes to the starting lineup, this makes it an even bigger ask for England to 'click'. Even if they don't, though, I think they've shown enough heart to assume they won't roll over....but would expect Wales to win a tight game due to their greater cohesiveness and confidence in what they try to do.

But I'm still holding out hope.....maybe Charlie will bring his world class charge-down game?...

Well they say third time is a charm.

rugbydreamer wrote:Billy - sure it doesn't need to be spectacular, but I don't like it when we lose lineout ball. Tis just handing the ball back to the opposition, and I like Wales to hold on to it as much as possible

Again, i just think that aside from a few bad calls/throws/pressure?, Wales line-out has looked solid. We will see this weekend and i really hope Wales get lots of possesion because you are playing some draw droppinginly good rugby


Just no more first phase kicking away of possesion after a turnover

offload wrote:Do you really think that SL will play Farrell at 10?

I cant see it, in which case he'll keep Farrell at 12 and will have to decide between Barritt and Tuilagi.

I think that SL will pick Dickson 9, Flood 10, Barritt, 12 and Tuilagi 13. To me i think thats also very good but feel that Farrell is the better defensive 10.

Hello Hersh

eirebilly wrote:

offload wrote:Do you really think that SL will play Farrell at 10?

I cant see it, in which case he'll keep Farrell at 12 and will have to decide between Barritt and Tuilagi.

I think that SL will pick Dickson 9, Flood 10, Barritt, 12 and Tuilagi 13. To me i think thats also very good but feel that Farrell is the better defensive 10.

Well, I'll be very surprised if Farrell is dropped. His kicking has been excellent and Flood was a mixed bag for Leicester yesterday.

Yes offload, thats why i would suggest that Farrell be given the 10 shirt ahead of Flood, not only for his kicking but his defensive skills.

If Flood is selected then it has to be Farrell that misses out. I cant see SL picking Farrell over Barritt to be honest.

I think everyone suspects that Barritt/Tuilagi is the best centre partnership. The problem is that you can't play these guys alongside Hodgson due to goalkicking. So then he has to bring in Flood. The risk here is replacing two pretty pivotal positions with two guys coming back from injury.....massive ask for them to hit the ground running without playing themselves in, and Wales won't be giving Flood an inch...

I'd be almost tempted to leave the backline unchanged apart from Dickson (who absolutely has to come in). There probably won't be all that much expansive rugby played in the first half anyway, so go with the solid, tried and tested formula, then bring in Flood and Tuilagi early in the second half - both guys who could genuinely change a game. Youngs can also come on at this point - with his running game and his old pal Flood it could be just the thing to get him fizzing again...

....by the way, I'm by no means convinced by my own arguments here !

Adam, i see what you are saying and in a way agree with you but i do feel that England will need the physical presance of Tuilagi to start. For me its all about Flood v's Farrell.

eirebilly wrote:Adam, i see what you are saying and in a way agree with you but i do feel that England will need the physical presance of Tuilagi to start. For me its all about Flood v's Farrell.

Stranger things have happened (he did select a guy with 1 cap as his skipper), but I just can't see Lancaster chucking Farrell the starting 10 shirt yet. But then has Flood shown enough form? Honestly, I'd stick with Hodgson to start, Flood on the bench...

miteyironpaw wrote:

HERSH wrote:England will lose.


We are playing the team that should have won the RWC but was robbed by a terrible set of circumstances, that and failing to score more points than the opposition.

We all know they are the best team in the NH due to that 4th place at the RWC, ummm apart from France!

But don't worry England fans We have to remember that this 6 nations was always going to be a struggle, as long as we are facing in the right direction then all we have to do is keep on walking.

You're forgetting HERSH, that France had a poor world cup (losing to NZ twice - whereas Wales would have beaten NZ if they'd played them according to Edwards), and France might have won the semi-final on points but it was a moral victory for Wales. Had Wales happened to score more points than France, they would have beaten NZ, rather than losing to Australia who NZ had only beaten because South Africa had tired out Australia in the Quarter-final after South Africa had been sharpened to world best quality thanks to Wales, and rememeber SA only lost to Australia because of the poor refereeing by none other than a New Zealander.

It should be plain then to everyone, that Wales are better than France, who beat England, and hence Wales will win this weekend. I know this is a reversal of what I've said in the past, but I've been convinced by all the arguments on here that England are not good enough and Wales will win. A sad day for we English indeed.

To Hersh and miteyironpaw,

Can you provide a link to a post where a Welsh poster has made any of the above points in the last month?

Can you also explain what bearing the above has on a thread discussing match ups between England and Wales on Saturday?

If not, can I suggest you stop trying to derail threads with your boring and completely humourless attempts at winding people up please?

HERSH wrote:I forgot about Wales moral victory, well play once more guys, did Wales get a trophy for that?

Can we keep this stuff on the England Vs Wales thread please? After all - that's what it's there for.

How much experience does Farrell have at 10? It's a bad omen if he has little and Flood isn't back in form yet.

Wales have a large back line, only ha'penny is not large. Something I've been calling for England to do for years. I hope the days of people the size of Flutey and Tait are behind us for good.

Trouble is the England back line is small by comparison even now. There are only so many times you can run in to 'large' in a match before the strain tells and things start to crack.

Because I'm such a believer in 'large back lines' at test level I only see one result. A welsh win and by a good margin. Am I right or am I wrong?

Adam wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Adam, i see what you are saying and in a way agree with you but i do feel that England will need the physical presance of Tuilagi to start. For me its all about Flood v's Farrell.

Stranger things have happened (he did select a guy with 1 cap as his skipper), but I just can't see Lancaster chucking Farrell the starting 10 shirt yet. But then has Flood shown enough form? Honestly, I'd stick with Hodgson to start, Flood on the bench...

Normally i would agree with you but i dont think that Hodgsons defence is as good as it once was and i seriously believe that defence is the key to any possible English victory.

eirebilly wrote:i really hope Wales get lots of possesion because you are playing some draw droppinginly good rugby

You slag!

I think it will be a mistake to start with Flood, Priestland looked well off the pace when he came back from injury for Wales, although it doesn't look it at times International rugby is a lot faster than the normal games we watch and love.

I'd give Farrell a go at 10, what have we got to lose and he looks like he enjoys his rugby maybe he can create something out of nothing.