Jon Davies to Saints???

Great signing for Saints....

Downey out JD in.

http://m.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/saints/northampton_saints_wales_centre_davies_linked_with_switch_to_franklin_s_gardens_1_3539669

Surely that won't happen, all the drama with the international windows etc, JD is so key to Wales' future plans

Davies has already come out and said he wants to stay with the Scarlets. Guess it depends on whether or not we can compete with the offer Saints make.

I think Davies would be stupid to go at this age though. At the Scarlets and in Wales he is with a really key group of young players that are looking to build something special. He'd be better off stayin in Wales and looking for a move when he's in his late 20's.

I think Davies is the best welsh player atm honestly. I really do rate him and think he will only get better. I think he would suit 12 more than 13 though. I guess 12 is where he would play for the saints too.

That would be a great signing, and an improvement over Downey.

Yeah he is a 12, Rory, tis where he usually plays for the Scarlets.

Thing is at the minute he's playing for his home region and in the same squad as a lot of other up and coming young players like George North, Rhys Priestland etc. Why, at the age of 22/23, would he want to leave that?

Usually the big money moves come a lot later on in a players career.

rugbydreamer wrote:Yeah he is a 12, Rory, tis where he usually plays for the Scarlets.

Thing is at the minute he's playing for his home region and in the same squad as a lot of other up and coming young players like George North, Rhys Priestland etc. Why, at the age of 22/23, would he want to leave that?

Usually the big money moves come a lot later on in a players career.

Maybe Northampton are able to offer job security by means of a long term contract.

There is that. I would hope with us having Lamont off our books though, and the possibility of Rhys T retiring for next season, that we'd ahve enough money to secure Foxy on a 2-3yr contract.

Have I missed something or would moving to an English club not jeapordise his Wales' chances? Aren't the release / fixture windows different?

I imagine the money he could get at Saints would eclipse what he could earn at Scarlets by a substantial amount. Seeing players like Phillips and Hook still playing also shows it won't hinder his international ambitions.

Well Wales have an annoying habit of always playing one Autumn test outside of the international window so there is that to consider.

And it shouldn't jeapordise his chances too much I don't think. If he's still one of the 2 best centres, he'd still be picked.

I just honestly can't see him wanting to leave his local side, and the group of lads that are there at the Scarlets at the minute. Guess it's all coming down to whether we can actually offer him a competative contract or not in comparison to Saints.

And considering all the doom and gloom around regional funds at the minute, we might very well not be able to match it.

Just really don't want him to leave, he's pretty key for us.

" by Rory_Gallagher
I think Davies is the best welsh player atm honestly. I really do rate him and think he will only get better"

Really? Yes he's a good player but no way is he the best. Roberts is a better centre n that's before you even think about the back row, north etc...

I thought he'd come out and said he wanted to stay with the Scarlets and signed a new contract - around the time the Western Fail were talking about him going to the Blues.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I thought he'd come out and said he wanted to stay with the Scarlets and signed a new contract - around the time the Western Fail were talking about him going to the Blues.

When contract negotiations are looming, many say they want to stay etc, etc.

youngguns6 wrote:


" by Rory_Gallagher
I think Davies is the best welsh player atm honestly. I really do rate him and think he will only get better"

Really? Yes he's a good player but no way is he the best. Roberts is a better centre n that's before you even think about the back row, north etc...

Roberts hasn't impressed me as much as Davies this 6 nations. North has been good but overrated so far IMHO, due to playing aganst an awful irish centre partnership. His work-rate is pretty poor also. Faletau has been good in defence but pretty average going forward. Lydiate has had one game and he definitely didn't deserve MOM. Warburton has had one half so far, so doesn't really come into it.

Davies meanwhile has really shone this year. I would rather see him at 12 though.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I thought he'd come out and said he wanted to stay with the Scarlets and signed a new contract - around the time the Western Fail were talking about him going to the Blues.

When contract negotiations are looming, many say they want to stay etc, etc.

Also when contract negotiations are coming up players/agents do have a look around at what other offers are there. Even if Foxy was 99% confident he was going to re-sign to the Scarlets he would be a fool not to look around at who else wants him and how much they would pay him, as that would give him better ammunition for negotiating a better contract with the Scarlets.

Personally I don't buy into this mass exodus of Welsh internationals that the press are making out. I think that a number of older players may well be looking at cashing in on a reputation whilst they can before their performances start to slide as they get older.

Saints do need a 12 before next season and with the slight rise in the salary cap and the introduction of the marquee player they should have funds to replace Downey. Saints don't normally throw big money around these days, they have been trying to build squad depth so I wouldn't imagine that Davies will get an eye watering sum but at the same time Saints are no mugs and will offer him enough so as to elicpse what the Scarlets are offering (let's face it you won't tempt him away for less).

Think the saints have made JD a good offer - while the Scarlet's are still trying to put packages together for their out of contract players. Apparently the Scarlet's are holding out for 200k for Ben Morgan, which is some way off the 100k offered by Gloucester. They are desperately trying to to generate enough money to offer better terms to their out of contract players. So while Ben Morgan is in contract they are playing hard ball. Think Dominic Day is off cause his agent Derwyn Jones has managed to secure a 6 figure contract from Bath, while the Scarlet's have only offered him the same terms as his last contract. Bit off topic but does any Gwent boys know anything about this second row Lewis Rawlins we've signed from Cross Keys? Also apparently Robin Mcbryde has identified some North Walian prop for us? Does anyone know who he is? It's not Cai Griffiths by the way, although he and his Ospreys' team mate bevington have been linked.

Personally think the Scarlet's will announce that JD is staying after the 6 nations. They seem to like to make one big announcement about the players that have resigned. Although I personally would like them to announce it as soon as the players has signed on the dotted line - would save all this speculation and rumours of players exodus!

Although I personally would like them to announce it as soon as the players has signed on the dotted line - would save all this speculation and rumours of players exodus!.

Could be worse you could be a Tigers fan and therefore generally find things out half way through the negociation process ("so and so is close to re-signing") and then nothing more unless someone else announces they've got them instead.

Apparently the Scarlet's are holding out for 200k for Ben Morgan, which is some way off the 100k offered by Gloucester.

Can't see them getting £200k off of Gloucester, that would be the same as paying an international forward for a season. Where as Glaws would have to pay that and then Morgan's wage on top which would be a Castro esque expense in the first season and Morgan wouldn't be worth that much to Glaws.

pioden gorllewin wrote: Think Dominic Day is off cause his agent Derwyn Jones has managed to secure a 6 figure contract from Bath, while the Scarlet's have only offered him the same terms as his last contract.

Cracking stuff and he's a rugby pundit for S4C too.

sam:

Don't think the Scarlet's are expecting to get the 200k they are asking for, but hoping they can bump up the 100k offer they have received.

Dave:

Yeah by all accounts our Derwyn can sell sand to arabs. It's surprising how good you can make a rugby player look if you condense all his good clips from a 2-3 year period into a DVD for potential clubs.

pioden gorllewin wrote:

Dave:

Yeah by all accounts our Derwyn can sell sand to arabs. It's surprising how good you can make a rugby player look if you condense all his good clips from a 2-3 year period into a DVD for potential clubs.

Here's a short clip of Derwyn in action for Wales;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0gDO0txxvQ

Derwyn is an agent for a lot of players in Wales. It's never sat well with me that he's also a pundit on rugby tv and can then actively talk them up. Just something not right about that.

Ever wonder how papers get hold of these rumours?

Sure Northampton probably tabled a bid but this is probably another leak from JD's management just to make the Scarlets aware of the interest.

I really cant see him go to Northampton. They wouldnt offer Ashton more than 250K a year so I dont see the offer for JD being any bigger. And I would imagine the Scarlets offer wont be that much lower.

Until you read the "has signed for" i wouldnt make to much of any news article concerning transfers.

Ashton wasn't eligible for the "Marquee signing" as he already played for Saints. As far as I'm aware (may be wrong), Saints could offer JD 300k and use this as their one signing outside the cap.

Welshmushroom wrote:Ever wonder how papers get hold of these rumours?

Sure Northampton probably tabled a bid but this is probably another leak from JD's management just to make the Scarlets aware of the interest.

I really cant see him go to Northampton. They wouldnt offer Ashton more than 250K a year so I dont see the offer for JD being any bigger. And I would imagine the Scarlets offer wont be that much lower.

Until you read the "has signed for" i wouldnt make to much of any news article concerning transfers.

Oh no it probably will be

I really cant see him go to Northampton. They wouldnt offer Ashton more than 250K a year so I dont see the offer for JD being any bigger. And I would imagine the Scarlets offer wont be that much lower.

Wow. £250k a year for a centre! Can't see Saints paying that, forward yes, scrum half yes, fly half maybe but not a back. Foden might get a substantial contract because he's showed loyalty but that would be a massive signing, same money Mauger went to Tigers for. Saints have a game plan based around being pragmatic and smashing the opposition backwards, they need to re-inforce heavilly before next season and don't have a sugar daddy so that would be a big old contract to hand out when they need a number 8, lock, additional flanker and winger (at least one) just as badly.

Na - Look at the players they are releasing first. The 3.5 million salary cap only aplpies to the first 40 squad. It makes not mention of Prem based players etc. Sweeney is already being lined up for a move to Ponty which essentially will be another way the Blues keep a backup quality fly half in Wales without being part of the Blues Budget.

I'm guessing the scarlets probably are already paying him 100k or so. I'm not sure how much the Scarlets are over the 3.5 million cap but there are ways round it. I reckon he will stay but its more likely dependant on who they release. I'd imagine I. Thomas, R. Thomas, D. Manu are just 3 of the big salaried players on their way out (incl Lamont). They will defnitley have wiggle room to keep him I'd imagine.

Why do they need a lock?

Lawes, Manoa, Day, Sorenson is a pretty awesome set of 4, with Clark covering.

And Clark, Wood, Dowson are good flankers with Morgan at 8. Am i missing something or does anyone else think Saints are fine 4-8?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

I really cant see him go to Northampton. They wouldnt offer Ashton more than 250K a year so I dont see the offer for JD being any bigger. And I would imagine the Scarlets offer wont be that much lower.

Wow. £250k a year for a centre! Can't see Saints paying that, forward yes, scrum half yes, fly half maybe but not a back. Foden might get a substantial contract because he's showed loyalty but that would be a massive signing, same money Mauger went to Tigers for. Saints have a game plan based around being pragmatic and smashing the opposition backwards, they need to re-inforce heavilly before next season and don't have a sugar daddy so that would be a big old contract to hand out when they need a number 8, lock, additional flanker and winger (at least one) just as badly.

Sam, totally worth it at the moment. Based on form at the moment I reckon he's probably the best centre in the UK.

Hmm not sure about the best centre in the UK though he is a very good player and it would be close. It would be a change in tactics for Northampton, they have almost uniformerly signed underrated players and built up the team around solid bases first with flair second. Signing Davies would be a significant indulgence in attacking flair when the pack which is the basis for their success is in need of reinforcement.

I'd be suprised if they offered as much as £250k because the cost of retaining their talented youngsters and the needed reinforcements would put them close to the new higher wage cap. Then again they could make Davies their marquee signing and fit him under the cap that way.

story smacks of an agent furiously trying to demonstrate valid moves on the table after his client ruined the negotiating position by letting slip that he wants to stay at Scarlets.

just like the rob kearney to france this time last year, or jamie heaslip to france this time last year, etc.

Or the Richie Gray to Sale story......

If Ireland could rob one Welsh player it would be JD, the little bollix has me heart broken but he's good. Hope h stays with Scarlets, in fact I hope all the Welsh, Scottish and Italian players stay in their country, the stock of our league would only continue to rise.

I don't see Saints need to do much to their pack other than 1 new backrow to replace Wilson. I think a top class 12 should be their next priority.

JD would be flushing his career down the toilet by going out of Wales, a forward can get away with it to an extent but a back is easily replaced.

I wouldnt be suprised if the back came from the Scarlets either! He is too young to leave, he should wait 2-3 more years.

I don't see Saints need to do much to their pack other than 1 new backrow to replace Wilson. I think a top class 12 should be their next priority

They've lost 1 lock to retirement (Eustace) which leaves them with only 3 on the books (Sorenson, Lawes and Day with Lawes away regularly on international duty), Sharman the hooker is supposedly off leaving them Hayward and Hartley so they'll need one of each. Backrowers with Wilson gone are Dowson, Clark, Wood and Nutley. They realistically need two more of those in case of injuries and international call ups as I think Lawes was covering there at the weekend. A winger/fullback may be on the cards as the only specialised 15 they have after Foden is Tonks and he's average at best though with the young academy winger Elliott coming through they might get away without signing a direct replacement for Ashton.

What is wrong with English and French rugby? Keep your disgusting mits off Welsh players ffs.

What a useful and constructive comment! Whats the problem, Stephen Jones returned a hugely better player from Wales, Byrne has found real form that deserted him for 2 years at the Ospreys, Hook also playing well. Gill in such good form that he got internationally capped. Apart from Dwayne Peel, i'm not sure what you have got to whinge about?

Bathite wrote:What a useful and constructive comment! Whats the problem, Stephen Jones returned a hugely better player from Wales, Byrne has found real form that deserted him for 2 years at the Ospreys, Hook also playing well. Gill in such good form that he got internationally capped. Apart from Dwayne Peel, i'm not sure what you have got to whinge about?

With Steve Jones I would argue that he was a quality player before hand, however due to the way welsh rugby is it took an outside party to say 'Jesus look how good he is' for the nation as a whole to admit he was a good player. I think that the Jeff is a good place for our forwards to spend some time in, the league is (from my view point) a bit more based around hard working grunt in the pack, which is a welsh weak point. However I really don't see, with the obvious expection of money (and possibly better lifestyle in the cities), what playing in the Jeff has to offer our backs.

Apart from Dwayne Peel, i'm not sure what you have got to whinge about?.

Peel is in cracking form for Sale.

However I really don't see, with the obvious expection of money (and possibly better lifestyle in the cities), what playing in the Jeff has to offer our backs.

Learning to play in a more physical enviroment where space is normally a premium? It's a fair point the AP is a league that is built on power and hard work more than flair. Players like Geordan Murphy have come over and flourished though.

[quote="formerly known as Sam"]

Apart from Dwayne Peel, i'm not sure what you have got to whinge about?.

Peel is in cracking form for Sale.

But unavailable for wales, hence bad for wales

He's as available for Wales as Andy Powell who keeps making the team.

"formerly known as Sam

However I really don't see, with the obvious expection of money (and possibly better lifestyle in the cities), what playing in the Jeff has to offer our backs.

Learning to play in a more physical enviroment where space is normally a premium? It's a fair point the AP is a league that is built on power and hard work more than flair. Players like Geordan Murphy have come over and flourished though.

I appreciate where you are coming from with that, however I also think that the Jeff will stiffle the desire to run the ball from everywhere that a number of the backs who have been linked with moves away from Wales seem to like to play. I guess it is all how the players addapt. I think the Jeff sides would be better looking at some of the lads with talent who struggle to get into regional sides (previous examples being Lee Thomas, Nick McCloed, Phil Dolman), and seeing if the Jeff style suits them better as sometimes a average player for the regions is a good player in the Jeff (and vice-versa), so maybe instead of Jon Davies someone like Gavin Evans (Blues), Andrew Bishop (Ospreys), or Gareth Maule (Scarlets) would be a better choice.

[quote="Bathite"]

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Apart from Dwayne Peel, i'm not sure what you have got to whinge about?.

Peel is in cracking form for Sale.

But unavailable for wales, hence bad for wales

formerly known as Sam wrote:He's as available for Wales as Andy Powell who keeps making the team

To be honest I think that Peel is not in Gatland's plans. Whether it was him moving to Sale just after Gats came out with Gats Law, meaning he had to try and make an example of him, or whether it is Gats believes he is not as good as Williams, Knoyle, Webb and Co. I don't know. But what I would like is the national setup to stop making excuses suchas he is out of shape, or that him playing for Sale makes his selection awkward.

I guess it is all how the players addapt. I think the Jeff sides would be better looking at some of the lads with talent who struggle to get into regional sides (previous examples being Lee Thomas, Nick McCloed, Phil Dolman), and seeing if the Jeff style suits them better as sometimes a average player for the regions is a good player in the Jeff (and vice-versa), so maybe instead of Jon Davies someone like Gavin Evans (Blues), Andrew Bishop (Ospreys), or Gareth Maule (Scarlets) would be a better choice..

Depends on the team and playing style, one man's rubbish is another man's treasure and all that. Not sure Bishop would really fit in at the Saints as I don't think he offers more than what they already have. Maule would be a better bet as he is a physical centre and would be more of a like for like replacement for Downey and also considerably cheaper. If I was the Saints management I really wouldn't be looking to spend that sort of money on a young talent like Davies, I'd be looking for a more experienced option to add stability to the backline and bring on the attacking instincts of Lamb.

Certainly Davies will struggle to fit into a team as well as he has with the Scarlets. The game plan and the players around him are perfect for his style of rugby and if he can haggle a decent wage rise he really would be silly to leave.

I heard Scarlets Spiderman- though this is just a rumour - that Peel is quite outspoken in training and Gats likes Yes men (like Bennett) and clashed with Peel and as a result decided not to include him in his plans - it didn't help that he played in Aviva and had a drop in form.

It's a shame as he's meant to be playing really well these days and at his prime he was excellent, but I doubt he'll get another chance to change Gats mind as time isn't on his side and there's a lot of youngsters coming through.

I wouldn't be surprised Smirnoff. Gatland seems to be a bit of a dictator. I would assume the same thing happened with Delve.

According to peel himself, although he has never spoken out about it publically (I think). Initially gatland gave him his blessing to sign for sale. Then gatland contacted peel just after he signed for sale, and said that things had changed in the wru and he needed to return to wales (beginning of galtlands law) . Gatland had lined up peel to sign for cardiff blues to get him back to wales. But peel said he couldn't leave sale has he had pretty much just signed, and wanted to honour his contract. That was the start of the poor relationship with the both. But I agree with spiderman, I wish gatland would stop making excuse that peel is injured etc….and just come out and say he's not in his plans.

Just out of interest, why is the Aviva known as the 'Jeff' on here?