Wales and England differing match fitness approaches?

I would really appreciate some help with this because it is vexing me somewhat.

Wales and England seem to have diametrically opposed approaches to match fitness and returning players (or have i missed something?? if so what??)

While England supporters and most likely coaches torture themselves over questions of match fitness and how best to reintegrate Lawes, Flood and Tuilagi all of whom played for their clubs on the weekend….Wales seem to be more than happy to parachute players returning from injury straight back into the starting XV without any care in the world…….

Warburton, North, AWJ ?

Is this a mistake by the Welsh or are England too worried about match fitness

Spot on Triangulation - Gatts just sends them out whilst others perhaps overdo the gently easing them back in thing - Maybe it's the Poland effect but its a good point. So far it doesn't seem to have been a mistake by the welsh but a calculated risk. Lets not forget Warburton did not play because of a dead leg which is hardly injury of the year. Likewise we had 6 players missing against Ireland so I think there is a care in the world but just a slight one.

This reminds me of a game I played in for Neath under 18's against Swansea - I was full back and with about 65 minutes gone I went for a high ball (caught it) and fell awkwardly on my arm. I was down for a while and carried on rather whimpishly - I looked over to the coach gesturing about my arm and he said "get on with it you xxxxing Valley ponce" (the '70's was just so encouraging in Wales.) Anyways, I carried on and my arm hurt that evening when out in town for a few pints. I turned up for training on the Tuesday with my arm in plaster as I had broken my wrist in 2 places. I looked at the coach and he said - "I knew you'd xxxing broke it straight away!!" - Them were the days and we don't want to go back

Warburton and North have both played internationals recently to be fair, whilst Flood, Tuilagi and Lawes hadn't played any rugby at all for a long time until 10 days ago.

I think it depends on the injury and how long the lay off has been. Also younger players tend to recover better from injuries hence why North and Warbs can come back more quickly.

Also lets not forget the fact that Gatland is comfortable in his role and knows the players and what they're capable of. He also doesn't have to worry so much about his job.

Lancaster on the other hand is not secure in his job and therefore is naturally going to be more cautious. He also hasn't been in it as long and so doesn't know the players and their recovery times as well.

chuckle. I think it's in part the two week gap. I know I for one have talked myself into total confusion about England selection!

Perhaps it's a club vs region difference - I know we worry about bringing players back too early because of the pressures of the Premiership and I have the impression this is less of an issue with the regional set up. Perhaps this feeds into English concerns when selecting Nationally...?

Perhaps it's a lack of confidence in depth? Or a pointer to England's willingness to be in a building phase, versus the Welsh desire to win and push home some kind of psychological advantage? or break some psychological barrier?

Or maybe both coaches are similarly looking for continuity, England relucatant to change a winning side and Wales willing to risk returning players to fit into established systems?

Maybe it's all a rouse and the named team won't be the team that takes the field, like last time around where we had a fluid team sheet up until minutes prior to kick off?

thomh

thanks that helps a bit. But isnt your match fitness reset to zero when you're helped from the field unable to walk by yourself and then hobbling about with a boot on your foot?!

If North were in the England approach would he not be sent back to his club to recover / play a club game as sharples has been?

mckay

i think blind freddy knows Tuilagi Flood and Lawes are capable of. They are not newbies.

It just adds to the magic of this welsh side for me. All their trips to poland.

I suspect that this is either Welsh sorcery or some kind of faustian pact with the devil that Gatland has made......

Triangulation wrote:
mckay

i think blind freddy knows Tuilagi Flood and Lawes are capable of. They are not newbies.

It just adds to the magic of this welsh side for me. All their trips to poland.

I suspect that this is either Welsh sorcery or some kind of faustian pact with the devil that Gatland has made......

I just meant their recovery times. I know what they're capable of on the pitch but as a coach he's not going to risk rushing them back before they're ready.

mckay

they're all young men who'v just played club games. i do not see the issue.

it seems that lancaster is more about continuity and loyalty to the starting xv and is using "easing back in after injury" as a bit of cover to give himself leeway with the press.

he has also talked up the importance of the bench.

he might pull a suprise and tell england to go with a game in 2 parts

part 1 - 50-60 minutes -

play conservative containing game. use strike moves when its on in the attacking 22 otherwise contain the game. play territory.

part 2 - unleash the bench with instructions to go nuts

tuilagi, lawes, morgan even, youngs with instructions to chance his arm even all on the bench?

there is logic to this.

Im confused.

I thought A.W. Jones is being touted for a bench spot. Would imagine Wales will continue with Evans and Ryan in the second row.

Owens will probably move into the Hooker spot with Hibbard as backup.

So in terms of non match fit players both wont start and are probably looking at a off the bench 20-30 mins. Dont see any risk in that.

Triangulation wrote:thomh

thanks that helps a bit. But isnt your match fitness reset to zero when you're helped from the field unable to walk by yourself and then hobbling about with a boot on your foot?!

For as long as you're hobbling around with a boot on your foot, yes, but the question is whether someone who played rugby consistently for months and then missed a game with a one week injury is in better match fitness once that injury heals than someone who missed over a month of rugby but has played two comeback games. Obviously there are a lot of variables there, but I'd say it will take more than a week for North and Warburton's aerobic fitness levels to drop too far, whereas Tuilagi was out for so long that it could take more than two games to bring it back up. North and Warburton have played a lot more in the last 6 weeks.

I'm not saying that Tuilagi shouldn't play - just that there are enough differences in the respective players' situation that it isn't simply a Wales/England question.

Wales have a settled coach and a confident team. England have an interim coach and a team in the air.

Of course one coach is going to be eager to return his firebrands to a game as charged as England. Of course the England coach, who is trying to fill in his CV as his team play, is going to be more cautious about upsetting something he's taken cautiously through two games and two wins,

I doubt Gatland would play anyone who wasn't 100%, except maybe in desperate circumstances, that which these are not. Look at how anxious people were at Priestland and Roberts being thrown back in against Ireland, yet Gatland had faith and neither have looked in bad shape at all (except Priestland's boot).

Maybe this is the Poland fitness shining through, back in NZ many were also bouncing back quickly from injury.

A small wum inside my head is telling me to write something along the lines of

Gatland is playing unfit player because he is desperate for the win to seal his Lions coaching gig and he puts that ahead of player welfare. He is also lacking in faith in the depth of the welsh talent.

BUT i have squashed that wum flat - he is saying what i would like to be true rather than what is true. All of the above is of course arrant nonsense.

I'm not listening.

Were going to get done like kippers in front of our own crowd.

Wales by 15 points. Arrrrrrrrrrrgh!

I just started ny desert and now your spewing over here!!!!!!