Have England finally learnt to play limited overs cricket?

by **Fists of Fury** Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:40 pm

Evening all

Here is my latest blog. What do we all think of England's current ODI strategy? It has just proved to be successful against Pakistan, but in the long run is our more traditional method of building an innings preferable to going for a power based game, as many ODI sides do?

Thoughts appreciated.

England and ODI cricket are rather akin to politicians and honest expense claims; they rarely go together, are liable to embarrass and typically result in somebody getting the axe. Until now, that is.

From being perpetual whipping boys on the Indian sub-continent a mere three months ago, Captain Alastair Cook appears to have engineered a transformation that would earn a satisfied nod of approval from Optimus Prime himself.

A cause for such a dramatic shift in the fortunes of this England ODI side is somewhat difficult to fathom; after all, it is almost the same set of players, and in similar conditions. Even more remarkable is the point that England entered the limited overs format on the back of a 3-0 hiding in the preceding Test series; an episode of cricket where each and every batsman appeared to be holding a HB pencil in place of a cricket bat, such was their ineptitude against the spin bowling of Pakistan.

Some will point to the fact that India are indeed world champions in the ODI format of the sport, in stark comparison to the middle of the road ranking currently held by Pakistan. Others will suggest that the absence of senior bowlers James Anderson and Stuart Broad throughout that forgettable tour drew England’s sting.

But what of strategy?

Much like Haile Gebrselassie deciding upon a whim to try and compete with Mr Bolt in the 100 metre sprint at the London Olympics, England have for years now attempted, rather fruitlessly, to adopt the philosophy of some of their adversaries when it comes to limited overs cricket. A new breed of big hitting opening batsmen, utilising brute strength to clear the in-field and indeed the boundary rope during the initial powerplay overs has seen the likes of West Indies’ Chris Gayle and Australia’s David Warner prove exceedingly destructive. Countless combinations of opening batsmen were tried and tested by England, ranging from the wild yahoos of Luke Wright to the current number six batsman Craig Kieswetter. None succeeded.

The whole tumultuous saga was akin to a twig being used as a battering ram: essentially made of the same stuff, but pathetically ineffective at emulating the real thing. Just as Gebrselassie is of insufficient build to harbour any hopes of competing in the 100 metre sprint, the same very much applies to England’s hopes of bootlegging a similar big hitting policy.

Indeed, it was perhaps for this reason that the appointment of Captain Cook was met with a fair degree of scepticism by the brainwashed cricketing public. After interminably being told that the key to success in an ODI was to get off to a flying start with big hitting batsmen leading the way, questions were inevitably asked as to why England’s selectors had appointed an opener with a distinct lack of flamboyancy as captain, thus making his inclusion inevitable.

How times change. Since that moment Cook has scored runs aplenty, with an overall strike rate not too far shy of a run a ball; and all with conventional cricket shots, too. No slogging from this opener, he is an Englishman, he will play cricket how Englishmen should play cricket, not in this uncouth anti-establishment manner being so distastefully demonstrated elsewhere on this planet. Huzzah!

In all seriousness, Captain Cook has indeed steered the good ship HMS England clear of the rocky waters of brute strength bay, guiding her in to the rather more serene harbour with a firm hand, and always leading from the prow. On the proviso of making a steady start to an innings, keeping wickets in hand and looking to gradually increase the run rate as the innings progresses, England have finally stumbled upon a strategy that they actually appear comfortable implementing.

It might be ‘old fashioned’ and somewhat less entertaining to the modern cricket fanatic, but sport is mostly about winning, right? By reverting to the more traditional method of setting about building an ODI innings, have England finally got their limited overs tactics right and resurrected what has historically been an abysmally inconsistent outfit to put them in with a chance of winning the next World Cup, or will they find themselves left behind by their rather more adventurous rivals? Or am I just being typically English and getting ludicrously carried away by one small dose of success?

http://andy-bloxham.blogspot.com/2012/02/have-england-learnt-to-play-limited.html

by eirebilly Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:03 am

I am not so sure that its a question of whether England have learnt to play limited over cricket but more that a couple of players really stepped up in the last series. Finn, KP and Cook. If it wasnt for them, i am sure that England would have struggled.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:13 am

If we can get some big hitters down the order then we have on paper a good team.

eirebilly

Three players performing is fine with me. It's not like we rely on a couple of players all the time. For instance, Trott, Anderson and Broad are three other players who have been successful for us in 50 over cricket and may well be this summer.

by eirebilly Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:23 am

I know what you mean stella, i just feel that England have lived a little bit of a charmed life that there has usually been 1 or 2 players step up every game.

I have still enjoyed it though

by **Biltong** Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:25 am

Sure it has been working, but then you need to look at it in context, rarely have they managed to get to 300, which by all accounts is the target you should aim for when playing against the top ODI teams.

What has been very effective for england in this ODI series was their bowling and perhaps a little bit of ineffective batting by the Pakistani's.

Cook has shown that he can accumulate runs during the innings without taking too mnay risks, that is a very good way of doing it if you target to get somewhere between 240-260 runs.

Problem is, how will england react if they chase 300+.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:28 am

Sure it has been working, but then you need to look at it in context, rarely have they managed to get to 300, which by all accounts is the target you should aim for when playing against the top ODI teams.

---------------------------------

That's when a we need some power down below. Maybe Kieswetter, Buttler or Bairstow can provide that?

by eirebilly Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:29 am

Thats a good point biltong. England, i feel, have lived a bit of a charmed life but to me they dont look like a very effective team, more full of effective individual performances.

I am not complaining as they are winning Very Happy

by **Biltong** Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:45 am

Stella I think england is onto a winning formula, but to a certain extent tey are in the same boat as SA, when you look at our record when chasing 250
+ it is very poor indeed.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:50 am

biltongbek wrote:Stella I think england is onto a winning formula, but to a certain extent tey are in the same boat as SA, when you look at our record when chasing 250
+ it is very poor indeed.

You lot don't have a Kluesner or Kemp in your side (correct me if I'm wrong). These players are like gold dust when the last 10 overs come. Chasing is also a mental thing, something that South Africa lack at times. Saying that the word 'powerplay' is like kryptonite to England's batsmen.

by eirebilly Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:58 am

One thing that i will say, i have been very impressed with Cook as captain. I personally think that he is doing a better job than Strauss.

by **Biltong** Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:59 am

Yep, we have been trying with Albie morkel, but he isn't very consistent at all.

I think if you have a shortage of batsmen that really have the ability to be explosive then accumulating is very important.

Amla and smith can both bat at close to a run a ball from the start.

Kallis these days can bat at a strike rat eof 75-80, but he rarely stays in for long enough when he tries to up his tempo.

Duminy is very succesful at tkaing his time in the early stages of his innings (strike rate 65) and then can accelerate to end his innings on a run a ball. Problem with him is if he gets out after only a few overs he would have wasted balls.

FAf du Plessis in my view shouldn;t be there.

AB is very good at reading the match situation and can bat at just about any rate required.

Problem is we have a long tail at the moment.

our current side looks like this normally.

Smith
Amla
Kallis
FaF du Plessis - not good enough would replace with Ingram
De Villiers
AB Morkel - would rather have someone like Levi who looks like he can bludgeon and perhaps move him to 3.
Botha
Steyn
Morkel
Tsotsobe
Parnell

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:19 am

eirebilly wrote:One thing that i will say, i have been very impressed with Cook as captain. I personally think that he is doing a better job than Strauss.

Early days but so far so good.

by eirebilly Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 am

I know its early days but i do like the look of what he is doing Stella. He adjusts more to the situation rather than sticking to a preset game plan as i always thought Strauss did.

by Guest Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:34 am

i dont think we should go too far with this guys...yes its a fantastic series win, however it was only a couple of months ago that we got demolished in india...who are A MUCH BETTER ODI SIDE, than pakistan.

by eirebilly Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:35 am

Exactly cf90. Keep the feet firmly on the ground Very Happy

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:42 am

Eirebilly

Bopara was also having a decent time of it before injury.

We seem to have a lot of options at present but what is the right team?

by eirebilly Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:46 am

The right team!!!!!! Stella, thats a horrible question. I have absolutely no idea to be honest.

I think that England have the players to adjust to any conditions and thats where Cook comes into play with his selections. I have a lot of faith in Cook.

by **Fists of Fury** Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:51 am

One thing I would say is this: with Finn, Broad, Anderson Swann etc in the bowling attack, we are unlikely to be chasing 300 too many times.

by liverbnz Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:11 am

Is Jimmy even first choice any more? I'm not sure his form in ODis has been good enough these last few years. It's been a complete turnaround in both formats for him since 2007.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:12 am

liverbnz wrote:Is Jimmy even first choice any more? I'm not sure his form in ODis has been good enough these last few years. It's been a complete turnaround in both formats for him since 2007.

He is in England.

by liverbnz Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:23 am

Stella wrote:
liverbnz wrote:Is Jimmy even first choice any more? I'm not sure his form in ODis has been good enough these last few years. It's been a complete turnaround in both formats for him since 2007.

He is in England.

Is he? I'd rather a fit and in-form Bresnan now myself. Even Dernbach would be pushing him on recent form. Besides the next World Cup is 3 years away and is not in England. We should be building towards that now instead of waiting until the WC warm-ups as we seem to have done the last 3/4 WCs.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:26 am

England have won ODI series before. They have also not been whitewashed in test series before.
These things happen in cricket, lets reserve judgement on both formats till the summer. Theres still problems in the team. Moprgan used to be the only English batsman wortth a spot...now he cant buy a run. Patel and Bopara are really only fill in players. Swanns threat has deserted him in all formats.

It has been an oddity over the last few years that England have had a very good test side and a very good T20 side, but largely an abysmal ODI side.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:27 am

liverbnz wrote:
Stella wrote:
liverbnz wrote:Is Jimmy even first choice any more? I'm not sure his form in ODis has been good enough these last few years. It's been a complete turnaround in both formats for him since 2007.

He is in England.

Is he? I'd rather a fit and in-form Bresnan now myself. Even Dernbach would be pushing him on recent form. Besides the next World Cup is 3 years away and is not in England. We should be building towards that now instead of waiting until the WC warm-ups as we seem to have done the last 3/4 WCs.

Bresnan's ODI record isn't great and you need wicket takers up top. But like you said the next world cup is in Aus and maybe a.nother might get the nod.
I do think Jimmy if fit will start the ODI's this summer with Broad, Finn and Swann making up the four. Like the batting. Lot's of options.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:35 am

Stella wrote:
liverbnz wrote:
Stella wrote:
liverbnz wrote:Is Jimmy even first choice any more? I'm not sure his form in ODis has been good enough these last few years. It's been a complete turnaround in both formats for him since 2007.

He is in England.

Is he? I'd rather a fit and in-form Bresnan now myself. Even Dernbach would be pushing him on recent form. Besides the next World Cup is 3 years away and is not in England. We should be building towards that now instead of waiting until the WC warm-ups as we seem to have done the last 3/4 WCs.

Bresnan's ODI record isn't great and you need wicket takers up top. But like you said the next world cup is in Aus and maybe a.nother might get the nod.
I do think Jimmy if fit will start the ODI's this summer with Broad, Finn and Swann making up the four. Like the batting. Lot's of options.

Finn is the strike bowler, Broad offers a genione threat too.
The advantage of Bresnan is that he helps the side play 5 proper bowlers, rather than having to pack in guys like Patel and Bopara just because they need to fiddle out 10 overs from somewhere.

by alfie Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:39 am

Never mind the exact pecking order of bowlers , which would vary with form and conditions anyway - with all the cricket played now you need a lot more than one set of 4 bowlers for ODIs.
I imagine a rotation policy will be in place during the home internationals this coming summer , important Test bowlers especially like Broad and Anderson surely will be rested at some point.

Cause for rejoicing there are so many options at present.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:40 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
Stella wrote:
liverbnz wrote:
Stella wrote:
liverbnz wrote:Is Jimmy even first choice any more? I'm not sure his form in ODis has been good enough these last few years. It's been a complete turnaround in both formats for him since 2007.

He is in England.

Is he? I'd rather a fit and in-form Bresnan now myself. Even Dernbach would be pushing him on recent form. Besides the next World Cup is 3 years away and is not in England. We should be building towards that now instead of waiting until the WC warm-ups as we seem to have done the last 3/4 WCs.

Bresnan's ODI record isn't great and you need wicket takers up top. But like you said the next world cup is in Aus and maybe a.nother might get the nod.
I do think Jimmy if fit will start the ODI's this summer with Broad, Finn and Swann making up the four. Like the batting. Lot's of options.

Finn is the strike bowler, Broad offers a genione threat too.
The advantage of Bresnan is that he helps the side play 5 proper bowlers, rather than having to pack in guys like Patel and Bopara just because they need to fiddle out 10 overs from somewhere.

I can see the point in playing Bresnan but IMO he would need to bat at 8 and not 7. This is where we have come unstuck in the past, by having a bowling allrounder to high in the order.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:48 am

But we have also come unstuck by having too m,any bits and pieces players trying tio make up for not having 5 proper bowlers or a Collingwood who can genuinly weigh in with 10 legimate overs on a regular basis.
I dont see Patel or Bopara as being that player, and the way they have played recently its been the top 6 making the runs anyway. Its a pity Briggs cant bat really.

by liverbnz Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:50 am

I agree with Stella on this one, Bresnan is no higher than a number 8 - in both forms. Patel has done ok with the ball recently. He's added some wickets and has decent control. If he could find some consistency with the bat he could be the number 7 that England have been looking for. We all know his issues, but I think he is worth persevering with.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:53 am

True Peter but Patel/Bopara do give us flexibility.

My first team would be:

Cook
Pietersen
Trott
Bopara
Morgan
Patel
Kieswetter/Buttler
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Finn

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:58 am

Cant say Id be surprissed or upset by that side. Depnding on conditions etc Bresnan and Dernbach should also be in the frame. Possibly Briggs if you wanted to be daring in spin friendly conditions. Buttler should be given a chance to pressure Keisweters spot, another place England still have a question mark is a power finisher ( although this is something that sides have leanrt from T20 and are much better at restricting now)

On the bowling front the inclussion of Finn has shown that England have leanrt from the likes of Malinga blasting through sides the importance of an agressive quick bowler as a wicket taker, challenging both top order players and finishers.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:00 am

That was my team for this summer btw.

A team for Aus may differ but the world cup is three years away and a lot can change.

Bairstow is another who can bash it near the end.

by liverbnz Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:06 am

Stella wrote:
Bairstow is another who can bash it near the end.

Was just about to mention him. He's another option for wk too, although his keeping skills are probably not up to the required standard atm.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:08 am

liverbnz wrote:
Stella wrote:
Bairstow is another who can bash it near the end.

Was just about to mention him. He's another option for wk too, although his keeping skills are probably not up to the required standard atm.

I've never seen him keep but I have heard that he isn't the best behind the stumps.

by liverbnz Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:14 am

He's spent a lot of his early career undecided about whether he wanted to keep or be a pure batsman. From what I here, his mother, who has a little bit of influence at Yorkshire wanted him to pursue the batsman only route, but Jonny himself was keen to follow in his father's footsteps or being a wk batsman for England. His keeping is improving, and I think he kept wicket throughout most of last season's County Championship, he just needs a little more time I think.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:28 am

Both Buittler anbd Bairstow will be hard to include in the current England side unless they do become proper keepers. Without a genuine all rounder in the side they need batsmen who can bowl. Even though Morgans had a bad run his place in the side isnt under any threat right now surely

by liverbnz Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:35 am

Is the current incumbent a 'proper' keeper? As far as I can remember he didn't keep wicket for his county last season.

I'm not disagreeing with you by the way. I think if you want ot keep wicket at international level you should be better than the likes of Craig Keiswetter, and indeed Bairstow and Buttler.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:36 am

Can anyone please tell me why Prior hasn't been successful in ODI's?

It's a mystery to me given his success in tests.

by liverbnz Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:48 am

Easy to set fields to I guess. He's an offside player so pack that side with as many fielders as the restrictions allow and bowl wide of off-stump (which the opposition often do) and he'll often pick out the fielders. Easier to remain patient in a Test match and wait for the odd bad ball which will release that pressure. In ODis the pressure remains almost constant, and too many balls that pick out fielders will always add to it.

His List A record is not very impressive either, so it's certainly not a case international limited overs being a step too far for him. His Test record will also attest to that.

That's always been my take on it anyway.

by Stella Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:51 am

liverbnz wrote:Easy to set fields to I guess. He's an offside player so pack that side with as many fielders as the restrictions allow and bowl wide of off-stump (which the opposition often do) and he'll often pick out the fielders. Easier to remain patient in a Test match and wait for the odd bad ball which will release that pressure. In ODis the pressure remains almost constant, and too many balls that pick out fielders will always add to it.

His List A record is not very impressive either, so it's certainly not a case international limited overs being a step too far for him. His Test record will also attest to that.

That's always been my take on it anyway.

Sounds pretty accurate.

Still, you would have thought somebody with his talent could learn to adapt. Anyway, he has had his chance and failed, so time to move on.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:00 pm

liverbnz wrote:Is the current incumbent a 'proper' keeper? As far as I can remember he didn't keep wicket for his county last season.

I'm not disagreeing with you by the way. I think if you want ot keep wicket at international level you should be better than the likes of Craig Keiswetter, and indeed Bairstow and Buttler.

OK well what I was trying to say is that its as the kepper and replacing Keiswetter that they are most likely to get picked aside from in experimental lineups in the short term.

by **Fists of Fury** Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:35 pm

a) Kieswetter is the sort of player we need in the England middle order - a proven boundary hitter.

b) Yes, he did keep wicket for Somerset last year.

c) I actually quite like him, talented and well worth persevering with, though many of the 'jump the gun' English supporters might say otherwise.

by liverbnz Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 pm

I agree with you Fists. I think he, like Patel is worth sticking with to see if they can produce to their potential. It's worked with many others before, so no need to change the policty now.

by JDizzle Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:04 pm

I've always backed Kieswetter, although that may be because I am a Somerset fan. But he has a good List A record, he hits boundaries in different areas to other players and can biff it out of the ground at any time. He has also done it on the biggest stage before (World T20 Final) so he can do it, and his record whilst being not phenomanal isn't overly poor at international level and I hope that innings the other day will be a watershed for him.

As for his keeping, he did keep when Buttler played aswell last year but their are murmurings that that may not be because Craig is a better keeper, but because Jos is a much better outfielder.

by Jetty Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:45 am

I would say that you need a stable of 6 fast bowlers who all play together until the 2015 World Cup. Finn, Anderson, Broad, Bresnan, Shahzad and Dernbach. If there are 5 ODIs in a series the main bowlers play in the first 3 and the reserves in the next two. That way everyone gets experience against different batsmen in different conditions around the world.

Broad has played 87 ODIs but not one in Australia.

Anderson 17 ODIs 28 wickets at 27.71 econ 5.16 s/r 32.2
Shahzad 5 ODIs 6 wickets at 40.50 econ 5.15 s/r 47.1
Finn 3 ODIs 3 wickets at 56.33 econ 5.63 s/r 60.0
Bresnan 2 ODIs 4 wickets at 27.00 econ 5.68 s/r 28.5
Dernbach - not played in Aus

by hodge Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:54 am

liverbnz wrote:Is the current incumbent a 'proper' keeper? As far as I can remember he didn't keep wicket for his county last season.

Kieswetter always keeps when he plays for Somerset

by liverbnz Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:14 am

hodge wrote:
liverbnz wrote:Is the current incumbent a 'proper' keeper? As far as I can remember he didn't keep wicket for his county last season.

Kieswetter always keeps when he plays for Somerset

Okay doke. My bad.

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