South African limited overs cricket at an all time low.

Just thought I want to put it out there that CSA really need to stop the direction they are taking our limited overs cricket.

Our bowlers are pathetic, and our batsmen aren't making runs.

I am beginning to think limited overs cricket in SA is seen as a transformation tool and a development tool where young players are tested and other players who aren't good enough get an opportunity to play international cricket.

Not sure what their thinking is, but for goodness sake, nothing is happening and nobody seems to improve.

We've been fiddling with the team since AB took over. But, Im not overly worried, I dont even know what the ICC ODI rankings look like, I suspect most people dont, mainly because it doesnt mean diddly in a format with a World Cup.

As for the squad itself, its not that bad, really. Amla and AB swap the #1 rankings for fun when theyre bored. Duminy then comes in averaging 40, Robin Peterson is at least equal with anything weve ever had in the shorter format re: spin. Aaron Phangiso was the best spinner on the domestic scene for two seasons. David Miller has come along leaps in the last year. Alviro hasnt had a great start to his return to ODI, but he is the back-up... and averages 35 first class. Tsotsobe has played really well last two ODI's, as has Morkel. The problem imo, lies in that middle order. Faf and Farhaan average about 55 between the two of them. That is schockingly low.

As an aside, I wouldnt say this is the absolute low... Nothing beats CWC 2003. Being knocked out before the Super Sixers in your home country: 'oh: We havent won in Sri Lanka for 20 years, cant criticise the team for doing something we generally dont do.

I strongly suspect that the success of your Test side is related to this. The 50 over game had a bad effect on English Test batting for two decades in my opinion, and Australia have lost several matches playing one day cricket in Tests against us over the last few years. The BBL only seems to be accelerating an existing trend.

By separating the codes as England have done, they appear to have had some success in creating what might be called different mental spaces where you play using completely different techniques. Are SA achieving the same effect for Tests by simple prioritization, but at the expense of the shorter forms?

kingraf wrote: David Miller has come along leaps in the last year. Tsotsobe has played really well last two ODI's.

Miller I like.

Tsotsobe is one of the worst international players I have ever seen. His attitude at Essex last season really stunk, and then when I saw him in the ODIs last season and the Champions trophy this season he was appalling.

Maybe, but he is a wicket-taker. Six wickets in three games this series. The last twelve months has included a lot of time on the physio's bed for him, so I dont think its fair to judge his quality on that. He was the fastest South African to fifty sticks, and taken 24 wickets in sixteen games post Tour of England.

The real problem is South African cricket treats ODI's with the middle child contempt it deserves. Post 2011 World Cup, we have played 35 ODI's, Steyns played in seventeen of them, Kallis seven, Morkel 22, and Smith 21...

I think its just a natural thing that happens when you play good test cricket.

It happened to england.. Every time you smash it at test cricket and then play ODI's after you lose..

When you play a similar team with the same core it really is tough to adjust.

The fact is SA cricket is at an all time high.

Dont cut your nose of to spite your face. If you start shinning at ODI cricket you may lose that test edge!

Mystiroakey - I agree, ODI is the red-haired step child. Other countries need to treat this vile with the same disdain South Africa does.

Look dude I dont agree with your sentiment at all. Just that its very tough to have a good test team and a good ODI team at the same time!!

And test cricket is the more important.

The ODI game is the world game and is still very valid!

Odi's are just not relevant anymore. The ICC effectively killed them off. I don't think they should completely go mind, but the fact of the matter is the ICC have a ICC Test world championship in the pipeline, T20 has global tournaments, and world championships. ODI? They just cancelled the Champions Trophy. ICC middle-fingered ODI... Simple as that. Might as well use it as a stepping stone to develop talent for Test cricket. Warne said something similar.

Think it is the inconsistency of batting that is doing South Africa in in the ODI game more often than note. When Steyn and Morkel are playing and Tsotsobe beomes the 3rd rather than the first seamer, their bowling look pretty ok with Robin Peterson as the spinner. But they've had trouble at the top, Graeme Smith isn't getting any younger, but all the replacements they've tried are not half as good as the big man. He has to be back as soon as he's back to fitness, and should be hopefully available at least up to the 2015 world cup. Hashim Amla is class at the top. JP Duminy has shown some consistency at 3 in this series, but I think he could be more useful in a more middle order role with Faf du Plessis coming in at 3. AB de Villiers should not bat anywhere below 4. Miller could be a fine proposition at 6. Then they've to bring in either Quinton de Kock who despite his massive talent looks not exactly ready for international cricket as yet, or another hard hitting batsman or all-rounder. Robin Peterson could be the best number 8 ODI batsman in the world at the moment. Then Steyn, Morkel and Morris with Tsotsobe as the first reserve, if they don't consider Morris good enough to bat 7 or 8. If he bats 7 or 8, then Tsotsobe should also make to the first choice 11. Marchent de Lange is back playing for the A side, hopefully he'll be back with the ODI side soon.
Who are next in line in the South African production system of all-rounders?

Pathetic display in the Sri Lanka series.

It didn't help that Amla was unfair/unwell for 2 matches.

If Faf's going to play ODI's he should be opening or at 3.

We can't bat Duminy at 3/4 in Asia just because he's rubbish against spin.

ABDV should all ways bat at 4.

Miller is a fantastic player. He should be at 6.

Bowling was weakened by Steyn's absence.

Spin bowling was average, we need to find a Nicky Boje type player. Bats at 7/8 and bats 10 economical overs. Taking 1 wicket per match.

msp83 wrote:Think it is the inconsistency of batting that is doing South Africa in in the ODI game more often than note. When Steyn and Morkel are playing and Tsotsobe beomes the 3rd rather than the first seamer, their bowling look pretty ok with Robin Peterson as the spinner. But they've had trouble at the top, Graeme Smith isn't getting any younger, but all the replacements they've tried are not half as good as the big man. He has to be back as soon as he's back to fitness, and should be hopefully available at least up to the 2015 world cup. Hashim Amla is class at the top. JP Duminy has shown some consistency at 3 in this series, but I think he could be more useful in a more middle order role with Faf du Plessis coming in at 3. AB de Villiers should not bat anywhere below 4. Miller could be a fine proposition at 6. Then they've to bring in either Quinton de Kock who despite his massive talent looks not exactly ready for international cricket as yet, or another hard hitting batsman or all-rounder. Robin Peterson could be the best number 8 ODI batsman in the world at the moment. Then Steyn, Morkel and Morris with Tsotsobe as the first reserve, if they don't consider Morris good enough to bat 7 or 8. If he bats 7 or 8, then Tsotsobe should also make to the first choice 11. Marchent de Lange is back playing for the A side, hopefully he'll be back with the ODI side soon.
Who are next in line in the South African production system of all-rounders?

Err is this the same bloke with an ODI average of 27? Why should he even be in the team?

Faf should be nowhere near the ODI side. His record in ODIs is worse than Nohit. Kallis at 3, for me. If not, try a new guy. Maybe someone like Rilee Rossouw who is doing well with the A side? The tri series b/w A teams of Ind, SA and Aus should be interesting.

Ive said my piece about ODI, I just hope the selections dont ruin the careers of potential future superstars. A guy like Quinton de Kock averages 29 in List A cricket, vs 34 in T20, and 55 in First Class, 50-overs is his worst format, and you can just feel his intl. career being given enough rope.

Faf du Plessis has been moved around the batting order a bit too much, opened, he came in at 3 and he batted at 5 or 6 as well. He hasn't done well in ODIs as yet, but give him a more settled spot, best at 3 in my view as big Jacques is unlikely to play a lot more ODIs in a career that is coing to an end.
One reason why South Africa should give Faf a few more opportunities in a settled role is because the likes of Ingram hasn't really shown much of consistency, and the likes of de Kock aren't quite ready as yet. Besides, du Plessis is a man with a fine temperament, is a good leadership option, is a wonderful fielder and could be a handy parttime bowler as well.

ShankyCricket wrote:Faf should be nowhere near the ODI side. His record in ODIs is worse than Nohit. Kallis at 3, for me. If not, try a new guy. Maybe someone like Rilee Rossouw who is doing well with the A side? The tri series b/w A teams of Ind, SA and Aus should be interesting.

Faf's been played out of position.

He's should be opening or batting 3 in ODI.

He's only played at 3 four times.

Kallis isn't playing ODIs anymore.