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All Black 1905 jersey for sale

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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 7:59 pm

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Cash-crisis-forcing-club-sell-shirt-survival/story-15290896-detail/story.html

Sadly my local club is going through some real stress at the moment, We are being forced to sell our most treasured possession an All Black jersey from the 1905 tour match against the All Whites. Any rich kiwis who would like a piece of their history back?

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:02 pm

Wow, Tycroes, that's very sad to hear - a wonderful piece of history for whoever gets it

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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:04 pm

Aye were all pretty gutted were going to lose the shirt, but I guess better that than we lose the club.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:12 pm

Great to see that this jersey is being used to serve a pragmatic purpose,and I wish your club all the best in the future.

But wouldnt it have been a great opportunity to "market" the auction by playing a game against the original owners club or province and really drawing some attention to the auction.

Do we know who wore the jersey?

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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:18 pm

Honestly I dont know who wore the jersey Laurie but I guess we do know or can find out pretty easily. Certainly if the originals club was touring the UK then we would be overjoyed to welcome them and play a match.


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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:22 pm

your right though about the pragmatism, whist its a great piece of history and weve relished having it (initially on display) I think keeping the club alive is more important. four generations of my family have played for the club and I would be devestated to see us go under.

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Post by miteyironpaw Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:24 pm

Something sounds odd there with the whole X-Factor debacle.

How is it being sold? It doesn't say?
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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:29 pm

Yeah we got stung bya promoter but hes now being investegated for fraud, It doesnt help us though even if he gets convicted.

Auction I believe.

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Post by miteyironpaw Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:49 pm

Where's the auction? Do you have any details?
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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:51 pm

can let you know when its sorted, I assume its going to be a legit auction house rather than somthing like ebay.

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Post by miteyironpaw Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:54 pm

Yeah, I'd hope so!

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Post by Glas a du Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:57 pm

Why don't we organise a v2 whip round to buy it back for the Club?
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Post by miteyironpaw Thu 23 Feb 2012, 9:10 pm

I'd be in to help out, anyone else? Although it could fetch a tidy sum at auction. Might be kinder to let it run there. I would've thought 10k was a bit of a bargain, assuming (and I say this in the nicest possible spirit, that everything checks out)
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 9:14 pm

Glas a du wrote:Why don't we organise a v2 whip round to buy it back for the Club?

starting to think theres only 5 posters on here with multiple accounts, we wouldnt get much

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Post by miteyironpaw Thu 23 Feb 2012, 9:15 pm

Laugh That would be hilarious.
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Post by aucklandlaurie Thu 23 Feb 2012, 9:24 pm

The more I think about this,this should sell for some real serious money,as they say on the Antiques roadshow you have to get the right bidders at the same auction.
Possible bidders.
G.Henry: ex wales and All Black coach,and got S..t loads of money.

W.Gatland; former All Black and coach of Wales,I think he earns S..t loads of money.

Robbie Deans: former All Black,and great nephew of one of the members of 1905 All Black team,I think he earns s..t loads of money.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 9:27 pm

is there any rugby museums in NZ- they may take a piece of the action

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Post by aucklandlaurie Thu 23 Feb 2012, 9:35 pm

strictly speaking this jersey should be in a museum,however i cant help but think that the real serious money would come from an individual buyer.

I have a feeling that there is one of these jerseys was in a glass case in the boardroom at Eden Park.

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Post by miteyironpaw Thu 23 Feb 2012, 9:38 pm

If it's legit and mint, then it's a genuinely limited bit of historic rugby iconography, a complete treasure and essentially is surely priceless in a sense. Agree with the museum comments. Anyone who snaffles it for the prices they're bandying is sitting on a gem.
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Post by Hood83 Thu 23 Feb 2012, 9:38 pm

You'd like to think there's ONE rugby professional out there who has enough about them to buy this and give it back to the club.

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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 9:49 pm

Guys you have restored my faith in 606v2.

Firstly, mitey it is legit there is no question about that, its provenance has been proven. Its in good condition, its been in a safe for quite a few years, it was on display in a glass case when we initially got it but given its worth sticking it in a safe was considered safer (forgive the pun). Thats the thing as well at least in a museum it would be on display.

The thing is that it was from the All Whites tour match rather than one of jerseys from the international games in 1905 if it was from the wales game then I would think that it would be worth a fortune. It is from the last match of the tour though.

I agree if it was going to go anywhere a museum or a glass case in Eden Park would be the place for it.

Laurie is right though putting it in front of interested parties is the way forward. Anyone got any friends at Eden Park? lol

Glas thats a nice commemt from someone who I assume is an Ammanford RFC or Amman United fan after youve been poaching our players for a century its good to see local rivals want to help Very Happy

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Post by chewed_mintie Thu 23 Feb 2012, 10:36 pm

Tycroes - really sad that this has come about. I take it this is after the Alexandra burke debacle? Really hope your club comes through it alright.

I'd give my left nut for that top, a real piece of NZ history. Sadly there is no market for loped-off nuts (as far as I am aware) and that will not help your cause.

I would guess it would fetch a handsome sum through an auction house.

NZRFU might be interested....for what it is worth, I have emailed a link from the story on thisissouthwales to Stuff.co.nz, not sure if they will follow up but it would be of interest in NZ i am sure

Good luck

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Post by aucklandlaurie Thu 23 Feb 2012, 10:44 pm

tycroes
The moment you can identify who wore the jersey and where they came from (in NZ) then you guys will be in a position to know in which direction approachs should be made.

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Post by red_stag Thu 23 Feb 2012, 10:50 pm

Tyroes, please let me know when the auction is taking place.

I work for a rugby tour operator and will definitly help spread the word through our social media networks.
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Post by B91212 Thu 23 Feb 2012, 10:51 pm

Can't add much but another who is sad to hear of your teams plight and really do wish you all the best. It's sad that in an attempt to maintain and boost the finances of your local club the exact opposite has happened. I know we don't know the full story and I guess you can't comment for legal reasons seeing as there is an investigation ongoing but I'm guessing most rugby fans would happily lynch the guy regarding the booking.

Would not the Welsh RFU be interested? This is what I would class a major piece of rugby history. I really hope it either stays in Wales or ends up on display in NZ.

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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 11:02 pm

Cheers guys, I know there is a comittee meeting on monday so I will pop along and see what I can find out re the auction. I will also find out the number on the back of the jersey so as to figure out which of the originals wore it if we dont know already. would the NZRFU have a record of who played in the tour matches and their position?

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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 11:03 pm

In fact my next door neighbour is on the committee so I will ask him tomorrow about the number.

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Post by red_stag Thu 23 Feb 2012, 11:05 pm

I would also advise asking the regions, WRU, Celtic League, Nigel Owens AKA bloody anyone you can for more merchanise and try get a big auction to help your club,
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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 11:13 pm

Agreed Stag thats why I thopught I would mention it on here. Personally I think it should either be in NZ or with the All Whites.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Thu 23 Feb 2012, 11:27 pm

game was played on 30 Dec 1905 at swansea.
New Zealand 4,swansea 3.
All blacks did their haka,swansea won the toss and kicked off with the assistance of a strong wind from the Mumbles end.I have the team,but not the numbers..

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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu 23 Feb 2012, 11:32 pm

Excellent Laurie, I would assume that the position played and number would be pretty easy to put to a name once I know the number on the back. I will keep you updated. I know the whites were british club champions at the time and that it was a really tough game for the tourists although with it being the last match in the UK and with only the French to play maybe the originals minds were on the journey home. They had a few tough games in Wales that year.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Thu 23 Feb 2012, 11:38 pm

TO
I have the positions as well... reference being a book "centenary 100 years of All Black rugby" put out by NZ rugby historians R.Chester and N.McMillan publ. in 1984.

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Post by Taylorman Thu 23 Feb 2012, 11:46 pm

Wow, such history. Wish you well with your club Tycroes, its important to keep going where you can. After all its the people that make up the club, its members and its history, not an old jersey.

Sometimes in these situations the eventual buyer is a collector and no better place to store it than with those who will treasure it and value it the most.

So lets hope it comes back in the end. Hug

All the best...!

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Post by eirebilly Fri 24 Feb 2012, 7:12 am

Such a shame that a club is forced to sell such a treasure and a piece of history.

I am with Glas, i dont mind chipping in so that it stays at your club.
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Post by Glas a du Fri 24 Feb 2012, 7:19 am

Just read up. Swansea scored a try and the All Blacks a drop goal. The scoring system then meant Swansea lost. I bet the kicker who missed the conversion was gutted!
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Post by chewed_mintie Fri 24 Feb 2012, 7:28 am

Tycroes - amazingly my email to stuff.co.nz has been picked up and the article has been repeated under Editor's Picks

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/6475175/Welsh-despair-at-selling-All-Blacks-1905-jersey

Hopefully this will open up a new market for you! I've had a reply from the website so as soon as you know when and where it will be auctioned, let me know and I can pass the info on to them....or perhaps put you guys in touch with them?

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Post by eirebilly Fri 24 Feb 2012, 7:29 am

Thats a really nice thing you have done there Mintie.
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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri 24 Feb 2012, 7:31 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: TO
I have the positions as well... reference being a book "centenary 100 years of All Black rugby" put out by NZ rugby historians R.Chester and N.McMillan publ. in 1984.

Anyone got a copy of "Men in Black"*? There was a copy in the Blenheim public library when I was a kid,I'm guessing a fair few other public libraries in NZ have it.



* Released in the '80s it held match reports for every AB's match ever played up uintil that point
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Post by eirebilly Fri 24 Feb 2012, 7:49 am

There is a Men in Black book from 1978 that i know of Kiwi, could they be the same one?
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Post by TycroesOsprey Fri 24 Feb 2012, 8:09 am

Minty you are a legend,

Im just off to work but I have emailed the club chairman so will have the number as soon as he replies or I will pop round and see my neighbour when I get home tonight,

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Post by Glas a du Fri 24 Feb 2012, 8:10 am

Get onto your region Tycroes, if their PR bod has anything about him/her they will realise that a plaque in your club house saying

"the Committee would like all patrons to note the generosity of the Scarlets whose donation of £x saved the 'Originals' jersey for the club and ensured its financial survival"

10-15k would be repaid in the good will of Tycroes people pretty quickly I'd say.

(P.S. I'm fully aware that some of Ammanford's best players have lived in Tycroes)
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Post by TycroesOsprey Fri 24 Feb 2012, 8:21 am

Aye Glas, from Ike Fowler to my own grandfather ending up playing for Ammanford RFC of course the Ammans best player came from the other side of the valley and part of me wishes he was playing tomorrow. I have a history of Tycroes RFC coming out soon for the centenary so please tell any locals to grab a copy when they see it in the bazaar.

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Post by Glas a du Fri 24 Feb 2012, 8:23 am

thumbsup
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Post by TycroesOsprey Fri 24 Feb 2012, 8:30 am

I do wonder how many jerseys the originals would have had, did they do a single jersey for each game in those days?

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Feb 2012, 8:33 am

Don't be too disheartened about having to sell it. There's no point having an All Blacks jersey with no club to display it in. If that happened then it would probably just be sold later on in the future anyway. While it would be a huge loss, the club is more important.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Fri 24 Feb 2012, 8:49 am

Glas a du wrote:Why don't we organise a v2 whip round to buy it back for the Club?

Hand on heart you would get a tenner from me. If you have PayPal account I'm happy to contribute. Hug
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Post by Glas a du Fri 24 Feb 2012, 8:50 am

Yeah, cheers Griff Rolling Eyes
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Post by Glas a du Fri 24 Feb 2012, 8:56 am

Radge has a point. I donated to Parks through some online thing - set a target of £18k to 'save the jersey' but explain that it is a donation to the club and doesn't guarantee that donations will be returned if the target is not met and hey presto, all you have to do then is get as much publicity for the link as you can. If you can get a celebrity ambassador, all the better (just don't ask Ms Burke thumbsup)
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Post by Glas a du Fri 24 Feb 2012, 8:57 am

In the other hand, she could take it on as a cause to highlight rouge agents win:win!
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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 24 Feb 2012, 9:13 am

Glas a du wrote:Just read up. Swansea scored a try and the All Blacks a drop goal. The scoring system then meant Swansea lost. I bet the kicker who missed the conversion was gutted!
Apparently we Scots have been proposing to the IRB that we should go back to the old scoring system! Whistle

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