How will England score tries?

by 123456789 Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:16 pm

With Jones' try Scotland overtook England try scoring wise, both of England's from charge downs, so I shall ask the patronising question: How will England score tries in open play?

by Guest Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:19 pm

123456789 wrote:How will England score tries in open play?

Charge-downs aren't open play?

I wonder if this free-scoring, adventurous Scottish team will avoid the Whitewash and just get the Spoon?

by majesticimperialman Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:23 pm

It doesnt realy matter about scoring tries though does it?

It is all about winning the game. Just look at Scotland today, scored some good tries, but still lost.

by 123456789 Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:24 pm

I expect we will win our next two games just as England shall lose theirs

by Manu's Boxing Coach Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:28 pm

123456789 wrote:I expect we will win our next two games just as England shall lose theirs

A justification would be nice

by Guest Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:31 pm

123456789 wrote:I expect we will win our next two games just as England shall lose theirs

Scottish arrogance. Tut tut. Wink

by slartibartfast Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:33 pm

England will score, welsh defence were just too good for them yesterday.

by idris Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:39 pm

They will only score tries if chargedown charlie returns.

by **Biltong** Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:41 pm

Chargedown Botha almost got one, Wink

by idris Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:47 pm

That would have been hilarious if they HAD got it and won the match.

by **Biltong** Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:49 pm

idris wrote:That would have been hilarious if they HAD got it and won the match.

yeah, for quite a number of reasons. laughing

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:51 pm

The worst of it is that even Andy Robinson can get Scotland scoring tries.

Its plain embaressing just how little Lancaster is getting out of guys like Ashton.

by idris Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:53 pm

England were good. Their defence countered Wales for most of the match, but they STILL haven't scored a try other than 2 chargedowns.

I can't see England winning in Paris and the deflation from 2 defeats in a row will only turn to more misery when a resurgent Ireland win at Twickenham.

by slartibartfast Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:56 pm

idris wrote:That would have been hilarious if they HAD got it and won the match.

Eh?

by Knowsit17 Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:58 pm

Hilarious or just sad on both sides? Wales because ultimately it's not learning from an easy mistake to avoid even when two sides in a row made that mistake against England. And England themselves because it would confirm inability to score tries from anything other than mad moments of opposition mediocrity.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:59 pm

Im not sure how a good side would cede the majority of possession, teritory and points to a shaky wales side at home on a day when their star FH has a mare and gets carded.

If England were good they wouldve won the game. Theyve beaten wales home and away without being partiulalry brilliant in the previous two tournaments.

by Manu's Boxing Coach Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

idris wrote:England were good. Their defence countered Wales for most of the match, but they STILL haven't scored a try other than 2 chargedowns.

I can't see England winning in Paris and the deflation from 2 defeats in a row will only turn to more misery when a resurgent Ireland win at Twickenham.

I do agree that France away probably will be too much for England at this time but if Twickenham get behind the team as they did against Wales and England continue to improve I can definitely see England winning that one. Bullying the Irish midfield in a similar way to the Welsh.

by idris Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Im not sure how a good side would cede the majority of possession, teritory and points to a shaky wales side at home on a day when their star FH has a mare and gets carded.

If England were good they wouldve won the game. Theyve beaten wales home and away without being partiulalry brilliant in the previous two tournaments.

Same as Wales. Their attack was rubbish in Cardiff in August and their attack was quite poor yesterday and they beat England both times.

by Heaf Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:09 pm

England did score a try ... Just unfortunate the officials couldn't see it ... Replay again in the build up to Scotland v France match clearly showed Strettle scored

by TycroesOsprey Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:13 pm

They wont, they have France next in Paris who will shut them down, you see the French know how to pass a ball outside to their strike runners. After that they have an Irish side that is looking very good but it is in Twickenham so they may be able to make a game of it, cant see them getting a third win realistically. I do hope Lancaster has done enough to keep his job as he is the right man to lead England forward and back up the rankings, but another two defeats will see them in 7th place and the RFU will probably go to Mallett who will start again.

by Heaf Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:31 pm

Sadly I think you may be right about the next couple of matches, although more hopeful against Ireland. Who is the right coach for the future I'm just not sure ...

by Morgannwg Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:44 pm

Heaf wrote:England did score a try ... Just unfortunate the officials couldn't see it ... Replay again in the build up to Scotland v France match clearly showed Strettle scored

England didn't score a try thought, hence there was nothing for the officials to see.

by Heaf Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:51 pm

Yes they did ... Shown clearly again today on BBC ... Just not given

by Guest Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:52 pm

Heaf wrote:England did score a try ... Just unfortunate the officials couldn't see it ... Replay again in the build up to Scotland v France match clearly showed Strettle scored

There was nothing clear about it, hence it's still discussed. No matter how many times I see it I still do not see it actually making contact with grass. I see images where, with a bit of imagination, you could guess that it makes contact, but no clear visual. Therefore, how could the TMO give it?

by Heaf Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:57 pm

Did you see the angle shown in the Scotland v France build up today? Didn't see that one yesterday but this one seemed pretty clear to me.

by Cymroglan Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:58 pm

The Ref's initial reaction was that it was held up he asked the TJ if he had seen anything.
He went upstairs and the TMO confirmed that he was correct.
If the TMO had not been available the try would not have been given anyway as the ref had already deemed it as being held up.

If you want to listen to the nonsense spewed out by BBC studio pundits thats your choice they also said that Warburton did not deserve a red in the WC.

by Morgannwg Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:01 pm

Heaf wrote:Did you see the angle shown in the Scotland v France build up today? Didn't see that one yesterday but this one seemed pretty clear to me.

Of course it would be clear to your one eye. It clearly wasn't grounded by Strettle, hence why it was not a try.

by KickAndChase Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:03 pm

Both England and Scotland (day 1) scored tries disallowed by the TMO. Downward pressure on the ball over the line. Try.

by KickAndChase Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:04 pm

It's worth noting I don't think England would have won their match from it. Scotland might have.

by Heaf Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:06 pm

I'm not listening to nonsense as I saw the replay with my own eyes. I'm not disputing what the ref said but just stating you could see the ball grounded ... albeit for a brief period but there is no rule stating it has to be in contact with the ground for a minimum period of time.

And the TMO said it was inconclusive - he didn't say held up. It was also stated the angle shown today wasn't available to the TMO - whether that is correct or not I can't say.

I wasn't commenting on the match as such, rather the question as to whether England can score tries, which this replay shows they can.

by nobbled Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:16 pm

I think England showed enough threat to see where trys can come from. A couple of times Tuilagi was tripled team tackled - that creates space elsewhere. It will happen.

by Morgannwg Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:16 pm

So Heaf, all evidence points to no try being scored. So these particular replays do not show England can score tries because they did not score.

by freeman lowell Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:35 pm

ok ..it wasnt at try cos it wasnt given....England have a new coach,new caps,new combinations......
....key players are coming back from injury or struggling to find form....Lancaster has correctly focused on defence first...there has been steady improvement there is no reason to suppose they wont score tries....

by majesticimperialman Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:54 pm

This is one of those things that could go on fopr ever, some saying it was a try, some saying it wasn't a try. The fact is the TMO says is it was inconclusive. So he could not award a try. end of.

That does not mean that England wont score trys in games to come.

You may as well ask the Question, when are Scotland going to win a game?

by HERSH Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:09 pm

nobbled wrote:I think England showed enough threat to see where trys can come from. A couple of times Tuilagi was tripled team tackled - that creates space elsewhere. It will happen.

It did happen, it just wasn't given and I still don't know why? Shocked

by Morgannwg Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:09 pm

I am not saying England won't score tries if any of the last two posts are aimed at me.

by freeman lowell Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:32 pm

well mine was aimed squarely at the op

by munkian Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:38 pm

Ashton needs replacing. Like Youngs he doesn't seem interested.

He'll start playing well again when he gets settled at his new club

by RubyGuby Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:40 pm

I am sure England will score trys in the future if their coaches encourage them to put the ball down on the grass when they've crossed the whitewash thumbsup

by robbo277 Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:45 pm

I honestly don't know the answer to this question. I thought grounding the ball on or over the try line would be enough to score us tries, but apparently not. #notbittermuch

by RubyGuby Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:00 pm

"I thought grounding the ball on or over the try line would be enough to score us tries, but apparently not"

Correct, someone has to see the ball grounded otherwise we'd all have to rely on the players view of events, which is a bit silly - We can't ask a player "did you touch the ball down?" and when he sais "yes" award a try - That would be like asking a linesman"did they thrown in with the correct ball?" Yahoo

by Morgannwg Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:53 pm

Scrum V confirms it wasn't a try.

by PJHolybloke Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:09 am

The TMO said it was inconclusive, surely that ends the matter?

The fact that Strettle got over the line and grounded the ball is immaterial as to what anyone else thinks, including Scrum Vee, no?

Wales have had a knack recently of edging the key decisons but failing to go on and win games, they turned the tables yesterday and came out on top on both counts, so by that rationale I fully expect Wales to lose their remaining two games with a most valiant (but ultimately insufficient) effort.

Nevermind, there's always next year. How will England score tries? 3610695981

How will England score tries? 3610695981

Hobson! Fetch me the big net, what? Yes the fecking big one, these are going to be keepers, now run along and look sharp, there's a good man! Jeldhi jeldhi!

by Morgannwg Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:16 am

Yeah, the TMO decision is all that matters I guess. Except England fans can't accept that. He got over the line just, but was underneath the ball so couldn't have grounded it. The angle of it shown on Scrum V should now confirm this for everyone, that's all.

by RubyGuby Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:17 am

PJHolybloke wrote:The TMO said it was inconclusive, surely that ends the matter?

The fact that Strettle got over the line and grounded the ball is immaterial as to what anyone else thinks, including Scrum Vee, no?

Wales have had a knack recently of edging the key decisons but failing to go on and win games, they turned the tables yesterday and came out on top on both counts, so by that rationale I fully expect Wales to lose their remaining two games with a most valiant (but ultimately insufficient) effort.

Nevermind, there's always next year.

More grapes sir

Hobson! Fetch me the big net, what? Yes the fecking big one, these are going to be keepers, now run along and look sharp, there's a good man! Jeldhi jeldhi!

by PJHolybloke Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:20 am

RubyGuby wrote:
PJHolybloke wrote:The TMO said it was inconclusive, surely that ends the matter?

The fact that Strettle got over the line and grounded the ball is immaterial as to what anyone else thinks, including Scrum Vee, no?

Wales have had a knack recently of edging the key decisons but failing to go on and win games, they turned the tables yesterday and came out on top on both counts, so by that rationale I fully expect Wales to lose their remaining two games with a most valiant (but ultimately insufficient) effort.

Nevermind, there's always next year.

More grapes sir

Hobson! Fetch me the big net, what? Yes the fecking big one, these are going to be keepers, now run along and look sharp, there's a good man! Jeldhi jeldhi!

The bitter - the better isn't it Ruby How will England score tries? 810156456

Feck it! Fetch me the grapefruit Hobson!

by Cowshot Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:20 am

PJH: chuckle.

Well, I've rewatched the game and must admit am impressed by how much sheer tackling work Parling got through especially in the first half. That the Welsh put it through the forwards much more in the second half and that worked well for them pulling in the English forwards. Was impressed by Cole's work in the loose and Warburton generally.

Am pleased with the fact that England have taken great strides forward in each game and although the try didn't come this game I saw enough to think it will.

Still think the main thing Wales should take from the game is that they won it despite not playing particularly well. (And England take at least some credit for stopping them playing)

I thinks Stretts scored, but it wasn't given and I'm not interested in it as a topic any more. History now.

by RubyGuby Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:22 am

Cowshot wrote:PJH: chuckle.

Well, I've rewatched the game and must admit am impressed by how much sheer tackling work Parling got through especially in the first half. That the Welsh put it through the forwards much more in the second half and that worked well for them pulling in the English forwards. Was impressed by Cole's work in the loose and Warburton generally.

Am pleased with the fact that England have taken great strides forward in each game and although the try didn't come this game I saw enough to think it will.

Still think the main thing Wales should take from the game is that they won it despite not playing particularly well. (And England take at least some credit for stopping them playing)

I thinks Stretts scored, but it wasn't given and I'm not interested in it as a topic any more. History now.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:24 am

Cueto was utterly convinced hed scored that try in the 2007 final even after the pictures were published showing he had strayed in touch. The Scottish lad still swears blind he scored in this years calcutta cup.

Sometimes players are wrong. Its a big step up that Strettle even got close enough to make it controversial, bit of quality from Flood to give him the chance and some strength from him to even get over the line. like the magic 11 point try from 2007 it still wouldve left England with a draw at best had the tough conversion been nailed.

wales were the better side over 83 minutes with more possession, territory and points on the board despite having a chap binned and butchering a few chances of their own.

Scotland are a better attacking side than England at the moment despite starting their rebuild a game later than England.

by Cowshot Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:48 am

Scotland are a better attacking side than England at the moment despite starting their rebuild a game later than England.

You really are a glass half empty man at the moment! Didn't even Tigers' win over Newcastle cheer you up a bit?

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that every game England have added a bit more to their game. It's certainly not there yet, but we we hadn't seen anything in attack until this game and then we did. It didn't lead to a score, but it was there when it wasn't before and THAT to me is the key point. This is the least experienced and youngest England team I can remember and in the intensity of modern pro Rugby things could have gone a lot worse.

Lancaster is putting together something potentially rather tasty, it seems to me. I want to see Farrell and Tuilagi again, with the England players around Tuilagi knowing rather more about him and with him a bit fitter. I want to see if that will bring in the wingers and give Foden a bit more space. The back row is still an issue and I don't have a clue what the answer is there. I'll leave it to those who do. Smile

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