Ireland review of Italian Game

First topic message reminder :

Ok I've watched the game twice so far and will probably watch it again later on tonight!
A definite improvement for sure. Much better in a number of different facets of play. Would like to point out the media have gone a bit (and may go further) overboard on this win but for sure it was a good game from our point of view.

Healy: 6.5
Pretty good in the scrum apart from a penalty conceeded. He was really good in defence in my opinion and hit rucks like crazy. I thought he didn't get enough of the ball in terms of carrying but what he did get was positive yardage.

Best: 7
Good lineout throwing, excellent defence and great at getting up and competing for the ball. Slowed down a lot of Italian ball and acted as a number 7 almost in his linking play. Good use of choke tackles too.

Ross: 6
Conceeded a few penalties in the scrum but carried better than in the last number of months and was a nuissance whenever the Italians tried setting a maul. Another who really went for the choke tackles.

O'Callaghan: 6
I'd have liked to have seen Ryan's mobility but DOC did well. He was another player who used the choke tackles and was hitting rucks like a man possessed. Tackled hard too.

O'Connell: 8.5
Peerless in the lineout. Serious work when it came to counter rucking, I was very impressed with him here and most surprisingly he was a much better carrier than previously in terms of leg drive and more importantly lines of running.

Ferris: 6.5
He did well, not as great re:carrying as he is for Ulster not being used wide enough still but did really well when he was making some good breaks and yards. Massive defense and work at the breakdown.

O'Brien: 6
Gave away a few too many penalties but he also slowed down a lot of ball and was good at linking some plays and making an extra few yards in moves. Didn't carry as much or effectively as last year and wasn't his best performance.

Heaslip: 8
Made a lot of turnovers and rips off the Italians. He also made the "hard" yards. Was exceptionally impressed with his performance, it was very well rounded and he was one of the most positive lads in green.

Murray: 5
Good tackler, good around the fringes, but very slow at getting the ball out, a step before passing, it just slows our game down so much and hamstrings our backs a bit. He needs to go back to what he was doing last august. He has the potential to be outstanding.

Sexton: 8
Not great in the first half with a couple of aimless kicks and the backs weren't going forward although not enitrely his fault. In the second half he was great, his range of passing and pace to the gainline make him so dangerous. His defence was very good and his goalkicking was excellent.

Trimble: 6.5
Took his try well and did very well under the high ball. He defended well and looked dangerous when the ball came his way but he didn't appear hungry enough IMO I'd like to have seen him come of his wing more.

Darcy: 6
Played pretty well in compassion to his other recent performances. Some good carrying and he defended pretty ok nothing huge to write home about but he looked better than before (it could be because it was against Italy no disrespect intended.)

Earls: 6
Wasn't wild on him really again. He ran some great support lines off Best and Ferris during the game which were beautiful and defended well. his attack was fairly limited though I thought. Off the Ferris offload too he made a break with Bowe outside, he didn't pass, ok, he didn't even look though....not a centre.

Bowe: 7
He finished his tries well and made a few breaks, also made yards outside the defence. His defence was pretty ok too and he did well chasing kicks too. Still would like to see him come inside more often.

Kearney: 8.5
I think one of our best players. great fielding of the ball and his counter attacking was exceptional. he joined the line well from depth and injected more pace into the line than any of our other players. Defence was good too and he looked pure class.

Bench:
Court did grand took his try really well
Cronin looked good from touch and got on the ball well in attack
Ryan looks pure class IMO and should start. Athletic, the way he out POC in space is something DOC just wouldn't dream of.
POM was good and majorally aggressive!
Reddan was outstanding and should start next week. Quick passing/service is the lifeblood for Sexton & co.
Rog missed a kick to touch and kicked some at McLean and Massi. Could have had a better impact.
McFadden didn't do much, glad he was in at 14 rather than 13.

All in all it was good, better than good but not so good as excellent. It is safe to say that attacking rugby is the way to go? When we play with speed width and aggression we look really good. Scrum wasn't as good as expected but lineout was very good imo. Defence was alright for the most part, but can be improved. Attack was poor during the first half but Reddan really spiced it up when he came on.

Any thoughts? Should the team be changed? Who were you happy with? Were the tactics right?

Standulstermen wrote:THe only way you beat the top teams is to starve them of possessionnand keep it yourself. The only way to retain possession is to win the collisions. Murray s pedestrian delivery from the ruck means that the defence is set and even ferris, sob and POC can't win collisions against to and three men who are setup. This means that after a few phases the box kick or the garryowen are the only options and so the opposition regains the ball.

Reddan speed means that defences can't reset and also that they can't commit as many men to disrupting our ball as they will be out of the defensive line. Murray has a lovely pass he just needs to work on his speed and decision making. It will come with experience .

You must remember that was only Murray's 3rd start with Sexton. Sexton has his own confidence issues to deal with. Murray is usually playing with a very confident outhalf who bosses the game & his scrumhalf. While Murray didn't have a great game (though I believe their was quite an issue with Kaplan getting in the way a lot in the first half - mentioned a few times by Donal Lenihan in his radio commentary) Reddan isn't physical enough to head to Paris. In my mind's eye I can see him throwing at least 3 intercept passes because he doesn't really think enough. Murray does have a nice pass, he just needs to be told to pass a bit more than he does.

Kaplan was cheating then! As he had no right to be on the field.

Sin you've outdone yourself with that one!

roddersm wrote:I've had a change of heart regarding Murray, not in terms of his performance as his service has far too slow, but I would start him against France.

I think we need to play it tighter against France, certainly in the early stages and attack them around the fringes. Scotland were able to make plenty of yards up the middle but Murray service needs to be quicker.

Bring Reddan on around 55- 60 min to speed things up.

I'd bring Reddan in against Scotland and England though as I think we can really open those sides up with quick ball.

ROG was very poor when he came on. Missed touch with the penalty and for some bizarre reason was standing back in the pocket for a drop goal in the build up to Courts try(I think). His kicking range seems to be gone and I'm not sure he has it at this level anymore.

Still, Ireland scored 2 tries after ROG came on.

Court's try: Its possible that ROG was trying to pull out the defence with the threat of a crossfield kick to the wingers.

SecretFly wrote:Kaplan was cheating then! As he had no right to be on the field.

Opps, got my saffer refs mixed up!

Agree with you rodders regarding Earls. As this was his first game I won't criticise him too much, but if that is all he will have to offer then I don't know what those people who think he is best at 13 are smoking. I think it will be quite clear soon that playing in the back three is where he belongs. He is a fantastic player, but he needs to live up to his potential or he will find himself getting overtaken.

Also Sin, Sexton was fantastic in this game. Can you not at least admit that?

Sin é wrote:Court's try: Its possible that ROG was trying to pull out the defence with the threat of a crossfield kick to the wingers.

It would have been a penalty to Italy then because all his players were in front of him. Why he would consider a drop goal with us 20 points up is beyond me. To be honest I think his legs are gone and he should have retired after the RWC.

I'm not saying anything about O'Gara.

But I'll ask this about him. Am I the only one who thinks he's lost some, if not a lot of weight? I could be wrong but it's something that struck me when watching him play in his last Munster game... I don't know why my eyes would question it if it isn't true.

It had nothing to do with the ref in the way IMO, there were times where he didn't even look where Sexton was and barrelled into the Italian fringe defense, that is not the job of a scrumhalf. he should have more sense, awareness and vision than that.

Physicallity isn't what is needed in france from our scrumhalf IMO. Leave physicallity to our other players, the 9 has to be something of a general and be able to control the pace of the game and know when to attack wide or close in.

I'd agree with some here that ROG looked poor when he came on. His missed kick to touch, his kick straight to mcLean, getting absolutely nailed when trying to bring the ball to the line at one stage. Just not a good day for him but he is still class one way or the other.

SecretFly wrote:I'm not saying anything about O'Gara.

But I'll ask this about him. Am I the only one who thinks he's lost some, if not a lot of weight? I could be wrong but it's something that struck me when watching him play in his last Munster game... I don't know why my eyes would question it if it isn't true.

Not sure Secretfly, hes always been pretty lightly built.

One think I've noticed stretching back to last years 6N is that he isn't getting any distance on his kicks now. The range seems to be gone. He also kicks a lot less than he used to and in general his game management has declined markedly. He just drifts in and out of games now and generally looks like a guy counting the clock down to retirement.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:Court's try: Its possible that ROG was trying to pull out the defence with the threat of a crossfield kick to the wingers.

It would have been a penalty to Italy then because all his players were in front of him. Why he would consider a drop goal with us 20 points up is beyond me. To be honest I think his legs are gone and he should have retired after the RWC.

Your telling porkies rods. I just watched the Court try and ROG was stuck in a ruck when Court scored his try. Trimble's try was from the Ireland half.

Just as well that ROG uses his head, and isn't dependent on his legs. 6 out of 6 says there is nothing wrong with ROG.

Something different about him in recent weeks....physically speaking. Oh well, we're all going one way and it ain't the getting younger way.

On the player... he's played a long time (for a rugby player) and the clock is ticking. He knows that. But I think he has a few more game changing run-outs in him before he looks for his tax back.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:It had nothing to do with the ref in the way IMO, there were times where he didn't even look where Sexton was and barrelled into the Italian fringe defense, that is not the job of a scrumhalf. he should have more sense, awareness and vision than that.

Physicallity isn't what is needed in france from our scrumhalf IMO. Leave physicallity to our other players, the 9 has to be something of a general and be able to control the pace of the game and know when to attack wide or close in.

I didn't hear what Lenihan said himself. Just read it on another message board. They said that Lenihan was doing his nut about it - it happened about 6 times in the first half apparently that he was in the line of vision which meant Murray had to turn the other way. Said it stopped after Half Time and surmised that someone must have said it to Joubert.

Problem with reddan is that he flings the ball without seeing or thinking who is passing to. Interesting that schmidt starts boss away from home and against french teams.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:It had nothing to do with the ref in the way IMO, there were times where he didn't even look where Sexton was and barrelled into the Italian fringe defense, that is not the job of a scrumhalf. he should have more sense, awareness and vision than that.

Physicallity isn't what is needed in france from our scrumhalf IMO. Leave physicallity to our other players, the 9 has to be something of a general and be able to control the pace of the game and know when to attack wide or close in.

I didn't hear what Lenihan said himself. Just read it on another message board. They said that Lenihan was doing his nut about it - it happened about 6 times in the first half apparently that he was in the line of vision which meant Murray had to turn the other way. Said it stopped after Half Time and surmised that someone must have said it to Joubert.

Problem with reddan is that he flings the ball without seeing or thinking who is passing to. Interesting that schmidt starts boss away from home and against french teams.

It is an issue. They do make a nuisance of themselves in tight spaces and close down options for players often enough. You also see players using the ref position as cover for subtle exchanges and passing moves (ie. sometimes the ref gets in the way because teams head for him rather than around him.) It's one thing to worry about bad refereeing but when they become part of the live game it can be infuriating, especially when the ref knows he's impeded a side but still let's the opposition run with the advantage.

Sin é wrote:
Your telling porkies rods. I just watched the Court try and ROG was stuck in a ruck when Court scored his try. Trimble's try was from the Ireland half.

Just as well that ROG uses his head, and isn't dependent on his legs. 6 out of 6 says there is nothing wrong with ROG.

No it was a few phases back. Not 100% it was courts try, maybe Bowes second... Reddan went to pass it to him and then did a double take because ROG was way back in the pocket in front of the sticks. Couldn't believe it. It was deep in the Italian 22. ROG then gets closed down and abandons the attempted drop goal.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Agree with you rodders regarding Earls. As this was his first game I won't criticise him too much, but if that is all he will have to offer then I don't know what those people who think he is best at 13 are smoking. I think it will be quite clear soon that playing in the back three is where he belongs. He is a fantastic player, but he needs to live up to his potential or he will find himself getting overtaken.

Also Sin, Sexton was fantastic in this game. Can you not at least admit that?

I thought he was good (not MOTM though).

My point is that Murray is used to having ROG bossing him whereas Sexton doesn't do that as yet as he is still finding his feet. They need more than 3 games to develop a decent partnership.

SecretFly wrote:Something different about him in recent weeks....physically speaking. Oh well, we're all going one way and it ain't the getting younger way.

Fly if Kidney didn't seriously doubt his physical and mental state he'd be in line for starting I believe. This looks like it could be the first 6N where ROG doesn't get a start. I think he's shot physically and the management know it.

I wouldn't be surprised if he hangs up his boots at the end of the season.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Your telling porkies rods. I just watched the Court try and ROG was stuck in a ruck when Court scored his try. Trimble's try was from the Ireland half.

Just as well that ROG uses his head, and isn't dependent on his legs. 6 out of 6 says there is nothing wrong with ROG.

No it was a few phases back. Not 100% it was courts try, maybe Bowes second... Reddan went to pass it to him and then did a double take because ROG was way back in the pocket in front of the sticks. Couldn't believe it. It was deep in the Italian 22. ROG then gets closed down and abandons the attempted drop goal.

Nope, ROG wasn't on for Bowe's 2nd try.

It was in the build up to Courts try then, if you'd watched the game you'd have seen it.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Agree with you rodders regarding Earls. As this was his first game I won't criticise him too much, but if that is all he will have to offer then I don't know what those people who think he is best at 13 are smoking. I think it will be quite clear soon that playing in the back three is where he belongs. He is a fantastic player, but he needs to live up to his potential or he will find himself getting overtaken.

Also Sin, Sexton was fantastic in this game. Can you not at least admit that?

I thought Sextons first half display was one of his worst to date. How many times did he kick aimless possession away? Second half was much improved but lets face it we were playing a very very poor Italian team.

I would love Reddan to start against France and lets see how he gets on. The French will be licking their lips

Standulstermen wrote:More than a little harsh on ferris there Pete. He was up there with POC for me.

One thing i dont like is our bloody obsession with the choke tackle. It is a decent weapon to have in the locker but Sexton tried it on Barbieri 8metres from our own line and as a consequence he bullied his way to within a metre and generated the quick ball that saw us concede.

Im not blaming Johnny for the try as of course it was a ballsed up lineout but in what world is that the right situation to employ that tackle by a 10 on a backrow. Warburtons tackle on Tuilagi showed how good going low and timing a tackle around the legs/ankles can be.

I dont know if this is a coaching thing but for every time the choke tackle works there is another time when we give up 10 yards. The net result is that often we are too upright in the tackle instead of lower and more dynamic.

Im still not seeing any grand plan to unleash our backs.

When I was watching that at the time, I thought Sexton was trying to hold the flanker up as much to stop the ball going to ground and getting recycled... I thought that he was trying to buy some time for his forwards to get back into the defensive line from the ruined lineout. That coupled with the flanker getting a great body position going into contact.

roddersm wrote:It was in the build up to Courts try then, if you'd watched the game you'd have seen it.

Nope. I have just rewatched it again. At no stage during the time that ROG was on was he sitting back in the pocket looking to take a drop goal.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:It had nothing to do with the ref in the way IMO, there were times where he didn't even look where Sexton was and barrelled into the Italian fringe defense, that is not the job of a scrumhalf. he should have more sense, awareness and vision than that.

Physicallity isn't what is needed in france from our scrumhalf IMO. Leave physicallity to our other players, the 9 has to be something of a general and be able to control the pace of the game and know when to attack wide or close in.

I didn't hear what Lenihan said himself. Just read it on another message board. They said that Lenihan was doing his nut about it - it happened about 6 times in the first half apparently that he was in the line of vision which meant Murray had to turn the other way. Said it stopped after Half Time and surmised that someone must have said it to Joubert.

Problem with reddan is that he flings the ball without seeing or thinking who is passing to. Interesting that schmidt starts boss away from home and against french teams.

True, Boss is a forwards orientated scrumhalf while Reddan is more of a backs scrumhalf. So Joe keeps things tight away from home so as not to push a game and end up making mistakes. At home, his side controls the tempo and plays a more expansive game. To be honest, it would be an interesting thing for Ireland to consider, Murray does get the back row players working better round the fringes I feel (which might be better away to France and England) while at home against Scotland should be a situation where you spread the ball and quicken the tempo (more of a Reddan scenario).

France are a different beast to Italy so while I was looking for Reddan to start the italian game, I'd be going for Murray possibly against the french.

Also, while Darcy should cope with Fofana I worry about the lines the french backs will run around Earls (Rougerie running at his outside shoulder and Malzieu drifting infield at his inside shoulder). He is still probably the best option we have for '13' who is playing that position at the minute.

Finally, as an aside question, did Hooky even watch that match? Some of his post match stuff and his article in the Indo rag felt like 5 minutes of scribbles. He was dismissing Bowe being given time at '13' as just a requirement of a substitution when anyone paying attention could see that McFadden came on in that switch and went to wing (a player who has played '13' for Ireland and Leinster). The fact that there was a positional move in that substitution was a subtle thing that completely escaped the man. Same as with Ross, this was Ross' best game that I can remember, he triggered a couple of choke tackles (don't like that description by the way) and was very disruptive at the breakdown and in defending malls. Loads a people spotted it, but not him.

Oh and on Tommy Bowe, my personal view was that he played badly throughout the game but popped up in the right place for 2 tries. If he was on his game he could have had 4. It is the mark of a class player that you can play badly and still score 2 tries but I wouldn't be giving him a pat on the back after this game.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Oh and on Tommy Bowe, my personal view was that he played badly throughout the game but popped up in the right place for 2 tries. If he was on his game he could have had 4. It is the mark of a class player that you can play badly and still score 2 tries but I wouldn't be giving him a pat on the back after this game.

I thought he was better than against Wales. He should have had a hat trick but for a dliberate KO by the Italian player. He's not on top form yet but the fact is for a player supposedly struggling for form he's scored 3 and made 1 try in the last two games.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Agree with you rodders regarding Earls. As this was his first game I won't criticise him too much, but if that is all he will have to offer then I don't know what those people who think he is best at 13 are smoking. I think it will be quite clear soon that playing in the back three is where he belongs. He is a fantastic player, but he needs to live up to his potential or he will find himself getting overtaken.

I posted this on the "earls as 13 thread" may as well post it here. Better get used to Earls at 13.

So too was Earls after some initial splutters. He feels he has settled in with the number 13 on his back. No more settling in.

"Ah no, that process is gone, you know, I've been playing there all my life. Obviously, I've played on the wing a couple of times in the last few years, which went against me, playing on the wing and going in to full-back at times.

"So I spoke to Tony McGahan when I came back from the World Cup and said that I wanted to be a 13, I feel more comfortable, I want to be in the mix defensive-wise and get confidence."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/comment-analysis/david-kelly-earls-comfortable-in-his-role-3032205.html

So we better get used to Earls at 13 because he says he is a 13? Oh well you better get used to me as the next Ireland coach, because that is what I want to be! Also refer to Ben Foden who originally was determined to be a 9 when everyone else told him 15 was his best position. When he listened, he became a great 15. Just because Earls feels it is his best position, doesn't mean it is.

I read that too sin..couldn't believe it. I'm beginning to think Earls is a tad delusional. First his RWC comments and now this.

I mean he says in the article he wants to play center to be involved more but when he gets selected at 13 he loiters out on the right wing all game waiting for others to create something for him.

To be honest he needs yanked to one side and given a boot up the backside.

I also think these media articles on irish players is ridiculous. Like the one that described POM as a Richie McCaw style player, and the one that mentioned him against Treviso as if he was some sort of heroic breakdown menace (he wasn't).

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So we better get used to Earls at 13 because he says he is a 13? Oh well you better get used to me as the next Ireland coach, because that is what I want to be! Also refer to Ben Foden who originally was determined to be a 9 when everyone else told him 15 was his best position. When he listened, he became a great 15. Just because Earls feels it is his best position, doesn't mean it is.

Not just earls says he is 13. His club coach (Tony McGahan), who he spoke to about it, has him playing at 13 for Munster this season.

roddersm wrote:I read that too sin..couldn't believe it. I'm beginning to think Earls is a tad delusional. First his RWC comments and now this.

I mean he says in the article he wants to play center to be involved more but when he gets selected at 13 he loiters out on the right wing all game waiting for others to create something for him.

To be honest he needs yanked to one side and given a boot up the backside.

Are you sure that wasn't ROG out on the wing and Earls attempting the drop goal

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I also think these media articles on irish players is ridiculous. Like the one that described POM as a Richie McCaw style player, and the one that mentioned him against Treviso as if he was some sort of heroic breakdown menace (he wasn't).

we know you don't rate POM as an openside Rory, so all these commentators would have it all wrong

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So we better get used to Earls at 13 because he says he is a 13? Oh well you better get used to me as the next Ireland coach, because that is what I want to be! Also refer to Ben Foden who originally was determined to be a 9 when everyone else told him 15 was his best position. When he listened, he became a great 15. Just because Earls feels it is his best position, doesn't mean it is.

Not just earls says he is 13. His club coach (Tony McGahan), who he spoke to about it, has him playing at 13 for Munster this season.

Well he can stay at 13 for Munster. I feel he won't last long there for Ireland. Many other options who are better than him there.

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I also think these media articles on irish players is ridiculous. Like the one that described POM as a Richie McCaw style player, and the one that mentioned him against Treviso as if he was some sort of heroic breakdown menace (he wasn't).

we know you don't rate POM as an openside Rory, so all these commentators would have it all wrong

I rate POM very highly as a player, but all this talk of him as an open side reeks of desperation for a natural 7. He isn't a 7, so people will be in for a huge disappointment. Also whoever was commentating in the Treviso game said he is probably an 8 more than anything else but he felt that POM could probably make the transition. Maybe he could, but right now he isn't doing a great job (IMO).

Sin é wrote:
Are you sure that wasn't ROG out on the wing and Earls attempting the drop goal

That wouldn't surprise me at all sin, they are both confused young men....or in ROG's case a confused old man.

Time to put the Earls experiment to bed like Buckley. He's had enough preferential treatment from the coaches and selectors. He's a failed talent, time to move on as there's better players coming through.

I still feel Earls is a big talent, but if he wants to make it, it will have to be in the back three. He is a stop-gap 13 right now. In the short-term, BOD and Cave are already better options. In the long-term, Spence, O'Malley and Griffin will be better options (if they aren't already).

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I still feel Earls is a big talent, but if he wants to make it, it will have to be in the back three. He is a stop-gap 13 right now. In the short-term, BOD and Cave are already better options. In the long-term, Spence, O'Malley and Griffin will be better options (if they aren't already).

+1
The lad is very talented he just has talents more suited to wing IMO.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I still feel Earls is a big talent, but if he wants to make it, it will have to be in the back three. He is a stop-gap 13 right now. In the short-term, BOD and Cave are already better options. In the long-term, Spence, O'Malley and Griffin will be better options (if they aren't already).

If you keep comparing them to BOD, none of them are going to measure up. All of those you mention have their faults (including not really having played in a crunch match at the highest level).

btw, I don't wee Cave making it as a front line international - pace and his frequent injuries now go against him. Its yet to be seen with the rest of them as they are still very young.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I still feel Earls is a big talent, but if he wants to make it, it will have to be in the back three. He is a stop-gap 13 right now. In the short-term, BOD and Cave are already better options. In the long-term, Spence, O'Malley and Griffin will be better options (if they aren't already).

+1
The lad is very talented he just has talents more suited to wing IMO.

He is wasted on the wing tbh. Centre or full back as he has the full bag of tricks.

Sin é wrote:
If you keep comparing them to BOD, none of them are going to measure up.

He's not comparing them to BOD, he's comparing them to Earls.

Sorry, can you point out where I have been comparing anyone to BOD? I feel that we can do better than D'Arcy/BOD in their prime if we get the combinations right. Regardless of individual brilliance. You say Cave lacks pace, and so have I in the past, but this season he has proved me wrong. Earls is much more lacking in other areas that Cave excels at too. In fact, pace is the only thing I think Earls has got that is better than Cave.

Also Sin I hope you are including Earls in that comment; "All of those you mention have their faults".

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
If you keep comparing them to BOD, none of them are going to measure up.

He's not comparing them to BOD, he's comparing them to Earls.

None of them have played at international level yet to compare them to Earls

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sorry, can you point out where I have been comparing anyone to BOD? I feel that we can do better than D'Arcy/BOD in their prime if we get the combinations right. Regardless of individual brilliance. You say Cave lacks pace, and so have I in the past, but this season he has proved me wrong. Earls is much more lacking in other areas that Cave excels at too. In fact, pace is the only thing I think Earls has got that is better than Cave.

I'll guarantee you that Earls makes more linebreaks than Cave does. Cave will be the next Paddy Wallace at international level.

But they do play better at every other level. They just haven't proved it yet at international level since they haven't had the chance. And that is hardly their fault is it?

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sorry, can you point out where I have been comparing anyone to BOD? I feel that we can do better than D'Arcy/BOD in their prime if we get the combinations right. Regardless of individual brilliance. You say Cave lacks pace, and so have I in the past, but this season he has proved me wrong. Earls is much more lacking in other areas that Cave excels at too. In fact, pace is the only thing I think Earls has got that is better than Cave.

I'll guarantee you that Earls makes more linebreaks than Cave does. Cave will be the next Paddy Wallace at international level.

At 13? This season? I HIGHLY doubt it.

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So we better get used to Earls at 13 because he says he is a 13? Oh well you better get used to me as the next Ireland coach, because that is what I want to be! Also refer to Ben Foden who originally was determined to be a 9 when everyone else told him 15 was his best position. When he listened, he became a great 15. Just because Earls feels it is his best position, doesn't mean it is.

Not just earls says he is 13. His club coach (Tony McGahan), who he spoke to about it, has him playing at 13 for Munster this season.

and has been so confident in him he went out and signed another 13.

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
If you keep comparing them to BOD, none of them are going to measure up.

He's not comparing them to BOD, he's comparing them to Earls.

None of them have played at international level yet to compare them to Earls

Well given Earls (non-)performance on Saturday it won't be too long until they do.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:But they do play better at every other level. They just haven't proved it yet at international level since they haven't had the chance. And that is hardly their fault is it?

We haven't seen to many of them in too many knockout games in the Heineken Cup either, or pulling off a win in France (which is the closest they can get to playing in a 6Ns international so that you might be able to compare the standards that they have been playing at).

Golden wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So we better get used to Earls at 13 because he says he is a 13? Oh well you better get used to me as the next Ireland coach, because that is what I want to be! Also refer to Ben Foden who originally was determined to be a 9 when everyone else told him 15 was his best position. When he listened, he became a great 15. Just because Earls feels it is his best position, doesn't mean it is.

Not just earls says he is 13. His club coach (Tony McGahan), who he spoke to about it, has him playing at 13 for Munster this season.

and has been so confident in him he went out and signed another 13.

Yea, a club the size of Munster need about 4 centres if they want to compete for trophies (next season we will have Earls, Laulala, Downey & Barnes with JJ Hanrahan due to come through in the next year or so). Earls has played 7 games for Munster this season in comparision to Barnes playing 18.