Varsity Cup points experiment update.

There is an old saying ”why fix it, if it isn’t broken?”. Indeed why re-invent the wheel?

In November of 2011 the FNB Varsity Cup, the premier rugby tournament for South African universities announced that they will be trialling a new point scoring system for the 2012 season, with a try remaining 5 points, a conversion 3 points and a drop goal and penalty 2 points respectively.

Perhaps it is not so much the re-invention of the wheel, but Rugby Union like any other professional sport has to evolve and keep up with modern day society who demand bang for their buck, and are always looking for the next best entertainment value for their hard earned cash.

The intention was to find a way where tries would become the main objective of team as a way to score points. The idea is to ensure that the entertainment value of try scoring would become the focus.

The varsity Cup has reached the halfway mark, 16 matches have been completed and the results have been interesting.

During the sixteen matches:

103 tries have been scored for a point tally of 515.
72 conversions have been successful for a point tally of 216.
24 penalties have been successfully taken for a point tally of only 48.

That means of a total of 779 points, penalty kicks contributed only 6% of total points scored.

Whether teams dominated or were dominated, they rarely used penalty kicks as a method to gain points simply because point scoring opportunities are too few and far between to justify 4 kicks at goal rather than maximising the opportunity to score a converted try.

Only one team decided to protect their lead with penalty goals and it cost them the match when they conceded a try in the dying minutes of the match.

One match has been won by a penalty goal thus far.

With the score tied at 21-21, UCT tried to run a penalty out of their own half and were penalised for an infringement which cost them the match when a penalty kick at goal was converted.

It is early days yet, the statistics will still have to be compiled at the end of the tournament to assess the true impact of the new point scoring system.
There were some fears that teams would commit more infringements at the break downs to slow down ball. The common opinion was that teams would rather concede penalties worth only 2 points, rather than a converted try of 8 points.

Early indications however show that with only 6% of points scored via penalty goals during the first 16 Varsity Cup matches, the focus has very successfully shifted toward try scoring as the primary method to win a game.

It does seem the entertainment value has been amplified and hopefully the end result may just be the answer to the evolution of Rugby Union, rather than re-inventing the wheel.

Here is a link if you want to read a bit more about the match reports.

http://www.supersport.com/rugby/varsity-cup/results

Encouraging statistics for sure. Personally I'm happy to see drop goals reduced in value but concerned that by devaluing penalties then cynical teams will commit more offences knowing it is harder for the opposition to pull away on penalty kicks alone.

I think I would have liked to see the following

Try - increased to 6 points (so it is double a penalty but still 8 points for a converted try as per the trial)
Conversion - remain at 2
Penalty - remain at 3
Drop Goal - reduced to 2

I always thought it unfair that a team can win a game 6 - 5 by kicking two drop goals agaisnt another team who maybe scored a wonder try but missed the conversion.

Anyway, I agree it all may help with the evolution of the game. Unfortunately I fear that if it ever got towards the top level then any change in scoring would be voted against by the northern unions almost on principal after the attempt to turn union into a a league hybrid a few years ago. That sure did upset many people on this side of the equator.

Very interesting. One stat I'd love to hear about if available is the number of penalties conceded, and how this compares to the average in that same league before the changes (wouldn't be right to compare that league to, say, a pro league)? I wonder whether penalties being worth less and teams choosing to ignore penalty kicks in place of going for a try would actually lead to more penalties as people are not scared of conceding the points? Currently, in other leagues conceding a penalty in front of the posts is almost guaranteed 3 points against. In this new scoring system conceding a penalty in from of the posts might lead to a try, but the attacking team would still have to win a line out or scrum after the penalty offence and still get over the try line. May be worth the gamble of giving the penalty away?

Griff unfortunately that info isn't available yet.

I am sure there will be a full assessment after the tournamnet, in about a months time.

It will also be interesting to see where the penalties are conceded and what for, whether on attack or defence.

What really surprised me was the points scored via penalties, I didn't think it will be anywherenear as little as that.

The statistics mean very little unless they're compared to say last year and there is a big increase in tries scored or decrease in penalties kicked? A key statistic that is missing is the number of penalties conceded rather than just the number kicked

Amateur rugby generally doesn't have great place kickers anyway so teams like playing with ball in hand and will turn down difficult place kicks. These changes on the face of it look to be just another step towards devaluing kicking similar to League.

I'd much rather keep the scoring as it is at present but I'd automatically add one point to the score for every penalty conceded, and then give the team the option of kicking the extra two points.

Aukster the kicking percentage just from the conversions show you the avergae kicking percentage is 70%.

I will post you the number of penalty kicks from last year and the number of tries.

give me a few minutes

2011 - 28 matches

114 penalty goals = 4.07 penalties per match

3 drop goals

166 tries = 5.92 tries per match.

2012 - 16 matches

24 penalty goals = 1.5 per match

103 tries = 6.4 per match

Incidently the goal kicking percentage for 2011 was 72%

Thanks for the stats Biltong.

What they seem to show is that there is a marginal increase in tries scored per game but a dramatic reduction in penalty goals per match. This implies that teams are not bothering taking shots at goal because the tariff is so low. However it also isn't having much of an impact on tries scored so therefore isn't having the desired affect.

If penalties are devalued to the extent of being inconsequential then the referees will have even less control and that generally leads to a much worse spectacle for the fans rather than a better one.

Yeah overall in SA the opinions aren;t positive about the experiment.

Most of the pundits are of the opinion that teams will eventually work out conceding penalties are the most inconsequential neagtive and will just infringe at will.

It will mean more cards and more strict refereeing.

In my opinion it might be worth a go to keep all kicks at goal at 3 points, whether a conversion, drop goal or penalty.

That would then reduce the factor of 4 penalties = to one converted try

to

3 penalties to be only one point more than a converted try which I think is more realistic.

An interesting idea (although I don't see much wrong with the current system), as you say biltong, I would imagine that it will lead to more penalties, it will be interesting to see the stats to see if that bears out.

I like your idea of 3 points per kick, increases the importance of a try but still maintains the importance of having a good kicker.

Will look forward to seeing the report after the cup is over...

Biltong - I take it you don't like my idea of automatically adding a point to the scoreboard for every penalty?

The idea is that the offending team is always penalised to some degree if they infringe, yet the incentive is reduced to just kick for the posts at every opportunity.

The Great Aukster wrote:Biltong - I take it you don't like my idea of automatically adding a point to the scoreboard for every penalty?

The idea is that the offending team is always penalised to some degree if they infringe, yet the incentive is reduced to just kick for the posts at every opportunity.

Aukster, penalties are already too controversial mate. They first need to simplify laws and then we can look at your suggestion.

Griff wrote:Very interesting. One stat I'd love to hear about if available is the number of penalties conceded, and how this compares to the average in that same league before the changes (wouldn't be right to compare that league to, say, a pro league)? I wonder whether penalties being worth less and teams choosing to ignore penalty kicks in place of going for a try would actually lead to more penalties as people are not scared of conceding the points? Currently, in other leagues conceding a penalty in front of the posts is almost guaranteed 3 points against. In this new scoring system conceding a penalty in from of the posts might lead to a try, but the attacking team would still have to win a line out or scrum after the penalty offence and still get over the try line. May be worth the gamble of giving the penalty away?

Just a thought, but wouldn't this be countered by the increased punishment of 1) getting sin binned should lead to increased opportunities for the attacking team to score tries which would now be worth more & in extreme examples 2) the fear of conceding the additional points through penalty tries? At least if I was coaching under that points system its something I hope I'd be very aware of

biltongbek wrote:Aukster, penalties are already too controversial mate. They first need to simplify laws and then we can look at your suggestion.

Won't penalties always be controversial?

Generally an infringement is negative play to stop the other team "playing". Unless
teams are actually penalised where it hurts i.e. on the scoreboard, they
will continue to flout the Laws however simple or complicated they are.

So is the answer to simplify the game because the current Laws are
unenforceable or find a way to enforce the current Laws? Either way I
can't see how a reduction in the penalty tariff (or equivalently
reducing it by increasing the value of a try) will help Union retain
it's identity as defined by the adherence to its Laws.

Adding a point to the scoreboard is a very good idea i reckon. It flies in the face of tradition in that to date only penalty trys are not scored by ' a person'.

But it would make players directly responsible and when they see their action go straight up on the board theyll think twice.
And over time some players will have a reputation. One refs will watch more closely.
Perhaps certain penalties only should warrant a point. Or repeats.

Still puts pressure on refs to act and get yhings right so would need exploring but an inyeresting idea aukster.

Taylorman wrote:Adding a point to the scoreboard is a very good idea i reckon. It flies in the face of tradition in that to date only penalty trys are not scored by ' a person'.

But it would make players directly responsible and when they see their action go straight up on the board theyll think twice.
And over time some players will have a reputation. One refs will watch more closely.
Perhaps certain penalties only should warrant a point. Or repeats.

Still puts pressure on refs to act and get yhings right so would need exploring but an inyeresting idea aukster.

The day I have to see a point gets added to a team because a referee is guessing which prop dropped a scrum, or which player held on and which player never released is the day I will stop watching rugby.

The fact is you will kill rugby if you do that.

You will find more Morne Steyn and Johan Goosens in teams who ave the ability to kick a ball 100 meters and a winger genetically engineered to beat the ball to the goal line of the opposition to effect mistakes from pressure and get "ligit" penalties to win a game by 17 penalty points to 1 try.


You might as well try and understand the point scoring system of gymnastics or ice skating.

Naturally referees have a game changing impact and make mistakes. Yellow/Red cards and penalty tries have far more impact on results, but currently penalties too decide outcomes. In other words it's the referees decision that is important not how the penalty is excised.
Adding a point to the scoreboard wouldn't change their quality of decision making. The question is whether it would change teams behaviour?

Teams unquestionably test the referee to see how far they can go usually outside kicking range, and also try to elicit penalties now any way they can. So the former may be curbed if it conceded a point while the latter is already being exploited to the best of most teams ability.

Of course if there was any merit in the idea it could be fine tuned, such as only adding the point if the penalty is in the opposition half, or only introducing it after say six penalties had already been conceded.

Yeah two minds on this one which is why I said it needed exploring. It would have the immediate effect on the player offending but you're right Biltong, the decision making around how the points are awarded would be a logistical nightmare, particularly with on the spot stuff.

To reduce penalty counts, just card people more