The Greatest 6 Nation’s Rivalry of Them All - Eng v Fra....

damngoodOvalball wrote:I wouldn't bother secretfly, especially not using the RWC as an example.

The general take on the RWC in wales seems to be that after a brilliant almost victory over Aus in the 3rd place play off, wales advanced to the final where they beat both France and New Zealand (as they always almost do) before beginning their long journey down the beanstalk and back to wales.

overlordofthewest wrote:In response to the poll - France by 7+ easily, Wales won by 7 away from home so France will beat England by 10 - 15 points.

In response the the title - it continues to amuse me when English posters here claim France as their biggest rivals, or Eng Fra as the biggest rivalry when even the author goes off topic to put Wales down as do many other posters. Just because THE match England want to win is against Wales but posters here don't want to admit it because Wales have simply outgrown England as have many other teams. Wales now see France and Ireland as bigger rivals when once it was England.


Not so long ago it was claimed when England lost it was because everyone upped their game to play England as everyone wanted to beat them. Now it's clear no one gives a toss anymore and the excuse is gone.
France don't view you as their biggest rival. Youre behind Wales and Ireland this year and probably Scotland too next year.

overlordofthewest wrote:I keep hearing about this ' scratch England side'. It's only been mentioned since they lost. Before that it was ' the new look England'.

Besides, I remember a scratch Wales side in 2008, basically the Ospreys. They won the GS. They weren't crowing about being a scratch side and celebrating defeat.

England were the team team to beat for Wales a number of years ago. 10 years ago they were the best team in the world and of course everyone wanted to beat them.
Now though there are bigger and better teams to beat. England aren't even in Wales top 5 of teams they fear. Thats just a fact, not anti English.

Those years when Wales got a spanking and claimed moral victories were when we were playing badly. WE dont have millions of players or money coming out of our ears so it's doubly hard for us to make achievements. However, we are achieving more than most in the NH (France doing a little better) with limited resources.

miteyironpaw wrote:

overlordofthewest wrote:I keep hearing about this ' scratch England side'. It's only been mentioned since they lost. Before that it was ' the new look England'.

Besides, I remember a scratch Wales side in 2008, basically the Ospreys. They won the GS. They weren't crowing about being a scratch side and celebrating defeat.

England were the team team to beat for Wales a number of years ago. 10 years ago they were the best team in the world and of course everyone wanted to beat them.
Now though there are bigger and better teams to beat. England aren't even in Wales top 5 of teams they fear. Thats just a fact, not anti English.

Those years when Wales got a spanking and claimed moral victories were when we were playing badly. WE dont have millions of players or money coming out of our ears so it's doubly hard for us to make achievements. However, we are achieving more than most in the NH (France doing a little better) with limited resources.

Please! "limited resources", Samoa, Fiji, Tonga, NZ are all smaller countries with fewer resources and they don't perpetually use it as an excuse to lose.

overlordofthewest wrote:I keep hearing about this ' scratch England side'. It's only been mentioned since they lost. Before that it was ' the new look England'.

SecretFly wrote:

dogtooth wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

dogtooth wrote:if the worst performance by wales in a year is enough to beat england at twik'num by 7, then france will manage more than 7, i think.

If the English are good enough to almost get a draw out of the best team in Europe, then France might be easy pickings.

So many ways of looking at the one matematical problem

7 points behind isnt nearly a draw. its a loss by a full score. not really a nearly draw

A TMO eyesight issue made it a 7 pointer, dogtooth. Wales didn't play badly...England stopped them playing for large sections. No, not good enough to keep it up or to turn that into a sizeable win.

Some Welshman had the stats on another thread. Virtually in all departments, Wales were beating the English.... it should have been a landslide of sorts but it wasn't one because England negated the importance of most of the superior stats...by containing the only stat that means anything - the scoring. Failed in the end. But if Wales considers themselves the best side in Europe, that was a nice display by a new England coach and his team.

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
Some Welshman had the stats on another thread. Virtually in all departments, Wales were beating the English.... it should have been a landslide of sorts but it wasn't one because England negated the importance of most of the superior stats...by containing the only stat that means anything - the scoring. Failed in the end. But if Wales considers themselves the best side in Europe, that was a nice display by a new England coach and his team.

sorry fly but that isnt close to the truth!

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
Some Welshman had the stats on another thread. Virtually in all departments, Wales were beating the English.... it should have been a landslide of sorts but it wasn't one because England negated the importance of most of the superior stats...by containing the only stat that means anything - the scoring. Failed in the end. But if Wales considers themselves the best side in Europe, that was a nice display by a new England coach and his team.

sorry fly but that isnt close to the truth!

Well now, don't shoot the messenger, Oakey. They weren't my stats I was refering to but ones posted by a proud Welshman. The point I was making was that a Welsh man said Wales played badly (thereby the implication being that they didn't show up and almost gifted England a win) I said that according to a different Welshman, the Welsh were dominant in every department. I was saying that you can't have it both ways. Wales were either playing badly or playing a game that dominated the stats.

thebluesmancometh wrote:secret

I think you're wrong there mate, Wales were poor by their standards but good enough to edge the stats. Infact I'd say that's the only positive from the game (aside from the scoreline).

But thats for another thread!

slartibartfast wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
Some Welshman had the stats on another thread. Virtually in all departments, Wales were beating the English.... it should have been a landslide of sorts but it wasn't one because England negated the importance of most of the superior stats...by containing the only stat that means anything - the scoring. Failed in the end. But if Wales considers themselves the best side in Europe, that was a nice display by a new England coach and his team.

sorry fly but that isnt close to the truth!

Well now, don't shoot the messenger, Oakey. They weren't my stats I was refering to but ones posted by a proud Welshman. The point I was making was that a Welsh man said Wales played badly (thereby the implication being that they didn't show up and almost gifted England a win) I said that according to a different Welshman, the Welsh were dominant in every department. I was saying that you can't have it both ways. Wales were either playing badly or playing a game that dominated the stats.

mystiroakey wrote:
i agree with almost everything you say- however the stats in the game would not suggest any landslide victory- wales only edged most of them. just explaining that

thebluesmancometh wrote:Secret

I think you over estimate both Englands performance and Wales abilities!!!

England 'gave us a game' is totally unfair on England and Wales, put into perspective Wales history at twickers a win is a win, and there is no way the players expected anything less than a royal battle!

England stopped Wales playing, but that is very much down to a little of Englands gameplan and a little of Wales, and despite England playing a blinder Wales managed to nick it.

SecretFly wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Secret

I think you over estimate both Englands performance and Wales abilities!!!

England 'gave us a game' is totally unfair on England and Wales, put into perspective Wales history at twickers a win is a win, and there is no way the players expected anything less than a royal battle!

England stopped Wales playing, but that is very much down to a little of Englands gameplan and a little of Wales, and despite England playing a blinder Wales managed to nick it.

I won't go on with this past this last comment.

You're willfully misreading again. To suggest your reading of the Welsh/English game, whereby you say you were satsfied with the win and expected nothing less than a 'royal battle' from England, is to ignore many of your country men who express anything but. They don't want to say England played well so they instead say the scoreline suggests Wales simply played below themselves (ie, almost beat themselves with a poor England looking on as spectator). That's the only belief expressed in these threads that's being 'unfair' ------ to England.

I neither over-estimated England's performance nor over-estimated Wale's abilty. I said I witnessed a good game, not a spectacular game; a good game by Both sides. And Nothing I said is remotely unfair to either side.

miteyironpaw wrote:

HERSH wrote:What is all this talk of Wales's worst performance within a year?

True they struggled to beat a scratch England team that have only been around each other for a few weeks, but surely their worst performance was losing to Aus at the MS, that was the time they needed to lay down a marker and they failed miserably.

They might well go on and win the Slam and if they do then well done, but if they fail to win a series in Aus then once again they would have failed to make any real progress.

Too right. Home and away losses for Wales against Australia, contrasting to England's home and away victories. That is what gives me confidence that after watching Welsh indiscipline let them down in the RWC semi-final, England can achieve victory in Paris. England historically tend to keep their composure on the big stage, which is why we have 3 world cup finals and a world cup to our name.

slartibartfast wrote:
Generally Wales respect England far more than people perceive.